Disney Bus Transportation with an ECV - a HORRIBLE experience!

[DizneyDogs]

Warning Long post - our experience with Disney transportation and using an ECV

After our first day at Disney my mom decided that walking was going to be too much for her as she has a bad knee and we got an ECV for her to use for the remainder of the trip from an offsite rental company. My mom has used an ECV before and is very capable of backing it up, steering, parking etc and driving one on to the buses as she has done it many times before this trip.

While at the parks we experienced very friendly CM's who were very helpful. However the disney bus transportation was a whole other story.

On numerous occasions disney bus drivers would start yelling commands at my mom to turn left turn right now straighten it up etc. This was very unprofessional and very unDisney like and was not necessary as my mom knows how to park one into the spot on the bus and nobody deserves to be treated this way. We also experienced numerous different ways of strapping the ECV in and sometimes she was told it was ok to sit on the ECV or was told to transfer to a seat. There was no consistency among the drivers at all. We even had some bus drivers tell her to walk onto the bus while the bus driver parked the ECV on the bus. While we did experience some very nice bus drivers who were friendly the bad experiences far outweighed them.

The worst night however was yet to come! We had gone to Downtown Disney to do some shopping and had tickets to the Pirate Party at MK. Since there is no transportation to MK from DD we went over to Saratoga Springs to catch the MK bus there and also because we wanted to see that resort as we were considering becoming DVC members before this trip. We arrived at the bus stop and 6:50 pm. At about 7:15 the first MK bus arrived however the bus was having troubles and broke down. No problem those things happen. At about 7:40 another MK bus shows up this bus had room for us and was one of the low buses with a ramp however the bus driver comes out and tells that there is too many people waiting that we will have to take the next bus even though we were the 2nd family in line of all the people who were waiting. So then 20 minutes later at 8pm another MK bus shows up there are about 10 people already on the bus and about 6 other people waiting in line with us. This bus was the type with the lift. The bus driver gets off the bus and tells he won't take us because the lift takes too long and is difficult and that there is a lowboy bus 2 buses behind him which will be much easier for my mom to park the ECV on. We tell him we have been waiting since 6:50 (now over an hour at this point) and that we have no problems using the lift as we have used it several times before on this trip and we are trying to get to the Pirate Party and the parade at least before it starts at 8:30. He proceeds to argue with us saying that's not true as he was at the stop 45 minutes ago. This guy was a total jerk. So on he goes without us. 5 more buses come in the meantime none of them for MK so much for him telling us that there was another MK bus 2 buses right behind him. This guy totally lied to us then has the nerve to accuse us of lying to him.

So now it's 8:15 and finally an MK bus comes from the other direction (it was finally the replacement for the 1st MK bus that broke down) and takes us to MK for the pirate party. Thank goodness the parade started in Frontierland or we would have totally missed it. So we ended up waiting 1 1/2 hours for an MK bus at Saratoga Springs. We could understand 40 minutes due to the bus breaking down but 1 1/2 hours and being what we felt to be discrimination was uncalled for.

The other thing that was really frustrating was that during this 1.5 hour wait 5-6 buses came for each of the other parks: DHS, Epcot and AK. The AK buses always left empty as the park was closed at this time. While only 4 buses including the 1st bus that broke down came from MK. We talked to the 1st bus driver since he was waiting to get picked up and he said that they are changing over their bus routes and testing out a new system. This may be the case as in the 8 previous times I have been to Disney I have never experienced slower bus service and a lack of buses as I did on this trip and it always seemed to be whatever park that we were going to we had to wait long periods of time for while there would be numerous buses for the other parks.

Anyway when we finally got on the MK bus at Saratoga the bus driver was really friendly and we told him how long we had waited and how we were treated. He told us to file a complaint when we got to City Hall at MK and at our resort. He said "I am going to be honest with you, the bus department won't do anything but your hotel and City Hall at MK will since that is who you have paid the money to for the Pirate Party and for your WDW stay"

So anyway we go to City Hall and tell them what happened - their solution.... hold on to your seats folks.... they gave us a GAC ummm my mom is already using an ECV and the GAC was totally unnecessary from what I had read here UNBELIEVABLE!!! Ok fine we will bring up the issue with our hotel concierge. Next morning I go down there explain what happened they are very understanding or so it seems but it now takes another hour as the CM had to keep going back behind a closed door to talk to someone else. She took all of our information and said that the bus manager would be contacting us. Ok fine I say. I ask for some type of compensation for all the hassle and for not getting to the Pirate Party when we wanted and for it messing up our dinner plans. She offers us a fast pass for 1 attraction at DHS as that was the park we were headed too. I just wanted to laugh in her face I told her I didn't think that was an acceptable solution but she said that was all she could do... I took the reservation # for the fast pass, thanked her for taking the time to write down what happened and walked off. By the way we never did go claim the fast pass, nor would it really have saved any time as crowds and wait times were already small.

So later that day the bus manager calls us and we explain again to him what happened. He agrees to meet us at Big River Grille at the Boardwalk to give us some type of compensation, fast passes or something he wasn't really clear on the phone. So off we go to meet him. We waited for over an hour for him to show up and he never did nor did we have his number to call him so we finally gave up and went back to the parks.

So the time we waited for the bus 1 1/2 hours, time spent at City Hall 1/2 hour, 1 hour at our resort concierge and 1 hour waiting for the no show bus manger it cost us 4 hours of our trip just because they wouldn't take an ECV and told us to keep waiting for the next bus.

By the way this wasn't the only time this happened during our trip. We were also told to wait on several other occasions for a 2nd bus as the line was too long even though we were among the 1st people to arrive at a bus stop.

We also had bus drivers start loading people first instead of the ECV and wheelchairs. Several times my DH or I had to run up to the bus driver and tell them hey you got handicap people here that you are supposed to load first. By the way yes we were in very plain sight and in the designated line. As a bus driver I would think the first thing you look for when you pull up to the stop is to see if there are any handicap, wheelchairs, ECV etc. people waiting but time after time this wasn't the case.

So to sum things up the Disney bus drivers we feel need some major training on how to treat guests with disabilities. While we still had a great time in the parks my whole family couldn't wait to get home after this trip just because of the bus situation and we have never before experienced that feeling while at Disney.

We were also given the contact information for guest relations to write a letter to once we returned home. We will probably write the letter so that Disney is aware of what happened and hopefully they can correct the situation so that this type of thing doesn't happen to anyone else.

I am curious to know if others have experienced the same type of treatment lately or if we were just unfortunate in the bus drivers we got?

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

As a CM, please let me apologize- that is most definitely not the standard of service that we strive give our guests. I know several bus CMs from another board I post at, and they would be appalled at what happened! There is no excuse.

I will say that as far as the seemingly unequal distribution of buses to the parks goes: if I recall correctly, the bus system has a new dispatch system and they are still working out the kinks. You should always allow an hour for transportation, more so if you have to transfer, but that was unacceptable.

I am surprised at GR's response and the fact the manager did not show up, again, this is outside the norm. Please write your letter to GR and tell them exactly what you told us. If nothing else, it appears some of the bus drivers need to be retrained.

Thank you for posting this: I am currently experiencing a knee injury and have debated renting an ECV from Buena Vista since they are cheaper than the parks. I was hesitant to do so because I really don't want the hassle of loading the buses, and your report has convinced me that the better option might just be to the use WC.

 

[SueM in MN]

I wish I could say what happened to you was unusual, but other people have reported similar things.
We didn't have anything too bad in our last trip in April, but had one bus driver on our trip in October who was extremely rude. We reported him as we were at the bus stop, using my DH's cell phone.

We also experienced numerous different ways of strapping the ECV in and sometimes she was told it was ok to sit on the ECV or was told to transfer to a seat. There was no consistency among the drivers at all. We even had some bus drivers tell her to walk onto the bus while the bus driver parked the ECV on the bus.

Different drivers might have a little different way of fastening down the ECV because of the particular equipment on their bus or their experience. Since ECVs have are not designed to be transported on buses and have no specific place to fasten to, there will be more than one way to tie them down. As long as the ECV is secure, it's OK.
But, it is against policy for the drivers to drive the ECV onto the bus, so the drivers who did that were wrong.
Also, there are signs right on the bus that suggest you should transfer from the ECV to a bus seat. While you are not required to transfer, it's safer if you do and bus drivers should be recommending people transfer rather than stay in the ECV. Here's a picture of the sign.

At about 7:15 the first MK bus arrived however the bus was having troubles and broke down. No problem those things happen.

That is understandable, and at that point, most bus drivers will call in to let someone know that there is a wheelchair/ECV waiting for a bus and they were unable to load you.

At about 7:40 another MK bus shows up this bus had room for us and was one of the low buses with a ramp however the bus driver comes out and tells that there is too many people waiting that we will have to take the next bus even though we were the 2nd family in line of all the people who were waiting.

If any other passengers were loaded at that stop, that driver broke Federal Law. It is sometimes possible that the bus might be too full to fit an ECV or wheelchair on. If that happens, by law, that bus is considered 'full' for that stop and no other passengers may be loaded at that stop.

So then 20 minutes later at 8pm another MK bus shows up there are about 10 people already on the bus and about 6 other people waiting in line with us. This bus was the type with the lift. The bus driver gets off the bus and tells he won't take us because the lift takes too long and is difficult and that there is a lowboy bus 2 buses behind him which will be much easier for my mom to park the ECV on.

Again, against the law. The driver is not allowed to deny you passage just because he is lazy.

The other thing that was really frustrating was that during this 1.5 hour wait 5-6 buses came for each of the other parks: DHS, Epcot and AK. The AK buses always left empty as the park was closed at this time. While only 4 buses including the 1st bus that broke down came from MK. We talked to the 1st bus driver since he was waiting to get picked up and he said that they are changing over their bus routes and testing out a new system. This may be the case as in the 8 previous times I have been to Disney I have never experienced slower bus service and a lack of buses as I did on this trip and it always seemed to be whatever park that we were going to we had to wait long periods of time for while there would be numerous buses for the other parks.

They are experimenting with a new system that dispatches the buses by computer. From everything I have read, it is not working our well at all.
We saw the same thing where there were several buses in a row (sometimes right behind each other) all going to the same destination and a really long time period with no buses at all for a certain park.
Apparently, the computer is supposed to know where all the buses are at all times and which park they are headed to. It is supposed to dispatch buses to where they are needed and even out the waits.
From what we could see in April, it didn't really do any of the things it was supposed to do.

By the way this wasn't the only time this happened during our trip. We were also told to wait on several other occasions for a 2nd bus as the line was too long even though we were among the 1st people to arrive at a bus stop.

We also had bus drivers start loading people first instead of the ECV and wheelchairs. Several times my DH or I had to run up to the bus driver and tell them hey you got handicap people here that you are supposed to load first. By the way yes we were in very plain sight and in the designated line. As a bus driver I would think the first thing you look for when you pull up to the stop is to see if there are any handicap, wheelchairs, ECV etc. people waiting but time after time this wasn't the case.

Again, not following either Disney policies or the law.

We were also given the contact information for guest relations to write a letter to once we returned home. We will probably write the letter so that Disney is aware of what happened and hopefully they can correct the situation so that this type of thing doesn't happen to anyone else.

I am curious to know if others have experienced the same type of treatment lately or if we were just unfortunate in the bus drivers we got?

Please do contact them.
There is another thread from the past month where some of the same types of things were reported. It's too late to hunt for it right now, but it does show that you are not alone.

 

[I Love Pluto]

I have no advice - just a lot of sympathy for your experiences. Here - you need this........

 

[BroganMc]

Wow. That is a harried tale.

I'm surprised and disappointed myself. I use a powerchair and am a SSR owner as well. I've never been denied entry to a bus, even if it was crowded. Perhaps the closest thing I experienced was last April when a driver showed up and said he hoped to take me but had to ask the other passengers if they would move. (Law requires abled-bodied passengers to give up their seats in the wheelchair areas if a wheelchair passenger requires boarding.) I figured he was new and afraid of a conflict with guests. But the guests politely moved aside without any qualms. And everyone boarded at our stop, the Springs which is the last stop in the resort.

I'm also curious why a bus manager would make arrangements to meet you at a restaurant to discuss the issue or offer compensation. That doesn't sound the least bit legit.

Did you happen to get names of the bus drivers who denied your mother boarding? Be sure to include those in your letter to Guest Relations. It sounds as if a few new drivers need to retake their accessiblity training courses.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I posted the gist of your message on another board I frequent (mostly CMs) and this is what our amazing bus driver said:

If what she said was true and not exagerated, then that is completely against policy and totally uncalled for.

The only reason to pass on a disabled guest is if your bus is completely full and you would need to ask a guest already on board to exit. No excuse for the RTS driver, the lift does not take that long.

If I'm Signal 72, then I'll explain the situation to the guest and call a coordinator for another bus. If I have room to get them on and not cause injury to a guest on board, then it's load em up and go.

As a w/c / ECV needs to be loaded before any other guests at that stop, it does not matter how many are in line at the door, the EVC is susposed to be loaded first. Period!

I'm very surprised that a manager did not meet them. It's not like a transportation GSM to blow off a guest.

I hope that they got bus numbers and times (although I bet not).

Unfortunately, some of this is due to MiM's phase 2.5, most of it is just the type of person being cast into a bus driver role. This will never happen on my bus or would have happened when ______was driving.

 

[darthtatty]

in your post you say you were talking to the driver from the 1st broken down bus. so he was there all along as he was waiting to be picked up?
why didnt he talk to the other bus drivers? he could of helped.

when we went my son was in a disabled buggy so the bus drivers werent aware he was disabled until i told them he was and needed to stay in his chair.
using the buses prob added 30mins each journey, the drivers didnt seem to know how to stap him up and each driver did it differently. luckily we're logical people so worked it out the first time then we could help the drivers after that. but still the whole process was slow and the bus drivers werent the best!
after our experiences instead of trying to visit a different hotel each trip, we've decided we will only visit the hotels on the monorail system.

cant believe you went out of your way to complain, only for the manager not to show up. i would of made him come to me.

anyway.......

hope your holiday was enjoyable apart from the transport and your complaint is finally recognised

 

[SueM in MN]

I'm also curious why a bus manager would make arrangements to meet you at a restaurant to discuss the issue or offer compensation. That doesn't sound the least bit legit.

That does sound a little unusual to me too.
We have called and spoken to the supervisor for the shift when we have had a problem. I know from posting on this board and CM bus driver's seeing my post that the situation was dealt with promptly.

Did you happen to get names of the bus drivers who denied your mother boarding? Be sure to include those in your letter to Guest Relations. It sounds as if a few new drivers need to retake their accessiblity training courses.

We always carry a notebook and a pen, so if we need to, we can take down the information. The bus number is on the front and back of the bus. We also note the time, where we were and where the bus was going. Even without a name, that would be enough for them to figure out which driver it was.

when we went my son was in a disabled buggy so the bus drivers werent aware he was disabled until i told them he was and needed to stay in his chair.
using the buses prob added 30mins each journey, the drivers didnt seem to know how to stap him up and each driver did it differently. luckily we're logical people so worked it out the first time then we could help the drivers after that. but still the whole process was slow and the bus drivers werent the best!

Many of the special needs strollers (disabled buggies) are not made to strap down and ride in during a bus ride. That means there are no specific 'right' places to attach to for a safe strap down.
If the one your son uses is made for transport, what works well is to use a piece of tape to mark the 'safe' areas. We do that with DD's wheelchair and it does speed up the process considerably. I can just say "Look for the bright pink tape. Those are your safe tie down areas."

If you don't know whether your child's stroller is made for transport or where it would be safe to tie it, it's a good idea to contact the manufacturer to check. If they are not made to tie down for transport, they can get bent or even pieces pulled out of place due to the stresses put on the frame during the tie down process.

 

[darthtatty]

hi Sue,thanks thats a great tip.
the last trip, was the last time, son used his buggy. (we got his wheelchair the week before but asked the clinic if we could keep his buggy for the trip) as it happens it did fall apart on us during the trip- the wheels fell apart. i never even thought to ask at Disney if there was anywhere to rent off site.

son will be in his wheelchair for this trip so im hoping things will be a lot easier

 

[DizneyDogs]

Hi

Thanks for all the responses. I do have the names of the 3rd bus driver (the one who was the rudest and only had 10 people already on the bus and denied us boarding because it was the type with a lift) and the friendly bus driver who finally took us. I didn't get any of the bus numbers. That's a good idea to carry a notebook and write things down.

I didn't get the name of the 1st bus driver with the broken down bus or the 2nd bus driver but can describe him in the letter. I figure Disney should also know who was on duty that night and based on the times we were there from 6:50 until 8:15 they should know all 4 bus drivers who came through there.

The bus driver who's bus broke down stood outside his bus door the whole time and never came over to us. After the 2nd bus driver denied us boarding is when my husband went over and talked to him. He said he had called in that his bus broke down and that there was a ECV waiting but that was all he could do. He got picked up eventually by a tow truck.

We even pleaded with a couple of the AK bus drivers to take us since their buses were empty as they were only dropping off there standard response was that a bus would be here shortly. One AK bus driver even started to take us then said that he couldn't as he thought he was scheduled to go to MK next but had his info wrong.

The final bus driver did say that it was all over their radio that we were waiting and he was surprised that we were still there when he came and just shook his head. He was the one who told us to file a complaint at City Hall and at our resort.

I do have a receipt from the Saratoga gift shop that was at 6:35 and we left shortly after that for the bus stop. There was another family already at the bus stop when we arrived at 6:50 and they told us that they had been waiting there for about 5 minutes before we arrived.

My husband was the one who talked to the bus manager and arranged to meet him on the Boardwalk. MY DH said he was really friendly on the phone so I don't know what happened why he didn't show up or if we just missed him or what - but the bus manager did have my DH cell # and never bothered to call us. After waiting an hour for him we figured we had already told him the story anyway so he had all the info which was the main focus anyway although an in person apology would have been greatly appreciated.

It is very disappointing to hear that others have experienced similar situations. I was fighting back tears by the time we finally got picked up. I just couldn't believe the whole situation and how we were treated especially by Disney cast members who usually are the friendliest people I have encountered while on vacation. My mom even told us to go on ahead of her to the party that she would eventually get picked up if she had to wait until midnight. I told her she was more important than the party and I wasn't going to leave her there by herself even though she can take care of herself LOL

I do have the name of the final bus driver who did pick us up and I will be sure to praise him in the letter we send.

The rest of the night....

There was more that happened to us but unrelated to having the ECV or Disney's bus transportation. If this hadn't actually happened to us I would think to myself how could of all of this happen to one family all in one day. I would never even had imagined all this could happen esp at Disney. I guess we were just in the wrong places at the wrong times and never in the right places the whole trip to win any of the million dream prizes LOL

We did have a great time at the pirate party once we finally got there and enjoyed riding the rides, the fireworks, parade and collecting all the treasures. We didn't get back to our room until about 1am and at 3am the 2 girls who looked to be in their 20's who were staying in the room right next to us returned from Pleasure Island drunk and started a fight with each other by slamming doors, cursing at each other at the top of their lungs, throwing the furniture in their room around and scratching up each other faces. I called immediately down to the front desk and security was sent right up. It woke up all the people around us and even the floor below us according to the hotel manager who was giving them a lecture on their behavior. Anyway security called the cops and the 2 girls were thrown out of the hotel, they packed up all their stuff and were taken in separate cabs. My husband and I were watching the whole thing through our peepholes until 4 am it was like watching the show cops as we could hear and see everything that was going on outside our room with security, the cops, the 2 girls and the hotel manager. Our door had two peepholes so I was on my knees looking out the bottom one while DH looked out the top one LOL My mom was in a connecting room on the other side of our room and slept through the whole thing. My DH got up the next morning at 6am to go visit some of his family in Tampa so needless to say he didn't get much sleep. Anyway we had quite the day at Disney to say the least!

If this had been our 1st trip to Disney I would be really tempted to say why ever go back? We have gone to Disney every year since our first visit in 1999. So we know how great a Disney vacation can be and how the transportation should work. We even have a trip booked for December of this year and at this time haven't decided whether we will be canceling or not. If we do go back we most likely will be switching to a hotel that is on the monorail so that it will eliminate some of the bus transportation to the parks. I will be reading these boards to keep up to date on the current bus situation and other people's experiences and I really hope to read that Disney takes action and it improves for all.

 

[SueM in MN]

Perhaps the closest thing I experienced was last April when a driver showed up and said he hoped to take me but had to ask the other passengers if they would move. (Law requires abled-bodied passengers to give up their seats in the wheelchair areas if a wheelchair passenger requires boarding.) I figured he was new and afraid of a conflict with guests. But the guests politely moved aside without any qualms. And everyone boarded at our stop, the Springs which is the last stop in the resort.

I have not looked it up for a while, but I am quite certain that the law doesn't require able bodied passengers to give up their seats. As far as I remember, drivers are required to ask passengers in the seats in the wheelchair to give up their seats. Most will give up their seats willingly.
If they refuse, the bus is considered 'full' for that stop and no other passengers can be loaded at that stop.
I have been on a bus twice when the passengers sitting on those seats did not want to move. The driver used peer pressure in both cases. In one, the driver said he was not moving the bus until the people moved. Since the bus was fairly full (but not so full that the people who moved would not get a seat), that option was not 'popular' with the other passengers and the people did move.
In the other situation, there were lots of people waiting to get on at the stop. The driver told the passengers that unless they moved, he would be announcing to the waiting people the reason they could not get on the bus. That was not 'popular' also and the people did move.

EDITED TO ADD: REGARDING THE INFORMATION ABOUT "BUS CONSIDERED FULL" ABOVE.
I HAD BEEN TOLD THIS INFORMATION BY SEVERAL BUS DRIVERS AND ONE HAD SENT ME A LINK THAT INDICATED THIS WAS THE LAW> BUT, I NO LONGER HAVE THE LINK AND CAN'T FIND THAT PARTICULAR INFORMATION ANYWHERE, SO I AM NOT SURE WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS ANY LAW THAT CONSIDERS THE BUS "FULL" ONCE THERE IS NO SPACE FOR PEOPLE USING WHEELCHAIRS.

 

[PlainJane]

I have not looked it up for a while, but I am quite certain that the law doesn't require able bodied passengers to give up their seats. As far as I remember, drivers are required to ask passengers in the seats in the wheelchair to give up their seats. Most will give up their seats willingly.
If they refuse, the bus is considered 'full' for that stop and no other passengers can be loaded at that stop.
I have been on a bus twice when the passengers sitting on those seats did not want to move. The driver used peer pressure in both cases. In one, the driver said he was not moving the bus until the people moved. Since the bus was fairly full (but not so full that the people who moved would not get a seat), that option was not 'popular' with the other passengers and the people did move.
In the other situation, there were lots of people waiting to get on at the stop. The driver told the passengers that unless they moved, he would be announcing to the waiting people the reason they could not get on the bus. That was not 'popular' also and the people did move.

I'm not saying you're wrong about it not being required by law, but isn't there a sign next to those seats that might give the impression to passengers that they have to move? I can't remember the wording, it might have said they would be asked to move.

 

[SueM in MN]

I'm not saying you're wrong about it not being required by law, but isn't there a sign next to those seats that might give the impression to passengers that they have to move? I can't remember the wording, it might have said they would be asked to move.

Oh, yes.
It does say that they must give up their seats, that doesn't mean it's required by law though. The thing about it is that most passengers don't know they can refuse (although, as I posted before, it's not 'popular' for them to refuse).
Here's the seat next to the door (opposite the one that can be raised to make room for wheelchairs) and you can see what the sign says. The seats that make into the wheelchair/ECV spots have the same sign above them.

It is in the Federal Transit, Title 49 Transportation

(j)(1) When an individual with a disability enters a vehicle, and
because of a disability, the individual needs to sit in a seat or occupy
a wheelchair securement location, the entity shall ask the following
persons to move in order to allow the individual with a disability to
occupy the seat or securement location:
(i) Individuals, except other individuals with a disability or
elderly persons, sitting in a location designated as priority seating
for elderly and handicapped persons (or other seat as necessary);
(ii) Individuals sitting in or a fold-down or other movable seat in
a wheelchair securement location.
(2) This requirement applies to light rail, rapid rail, and commuter
rail systems only to the extent practicable.
(3) The entity is not required to enforce the request that other
passengers move from priority seating areas or wheelchair securement
locations.

There is another part someplace that I can't find right now that talks about the bus being 'full' at a stop if no wheelchairs can be loaded because of room or people not moving.

NOTE: I HAD A LINK ABOUT "BUS BEING CONSIDERED FULL", BUT CAN NOT FIND IT. THE LINK AND THE INFORMATION WERE GIVEN TO ME BY A WDW BUS DRIVER AND THE INFORMATION WAS CONFIRMED TO BE WHAT THEY WERE TAUGHT BY SEVERAL WDW BUS DRIVERS.
SINCE I HAVE SEARCHED AND CAN'T FIND A LAW STATING THIS, I AM NOT SURE IF THIS IS ACTUAL FACT OR JUST INFORMATION PASSED FROM ONE DRIVER TO ANOTHER.

 

[SandrA9810]

My brother uses a wheel chair and I've never had any problem even when leaving the park after closing. And he likes to get in a regular seat, I usually push the chair up, let him sit in the seat near the door, and lift the chair into spot.

And even though your mom knows how to drive an ECV, anytime you see a rental one, you have a tendancy to move a few feet further away. You generally think that if they own it, it's not thier first time using an ECV. Some people get confused when they have to parallel park the ecv and turn it the wrong direction, so the driver was probably just making sure that the bus doesn't get beaten up, when they were telling her which direction to turn it, and some people loose thier depth perception, and don't realize how close they are to things. As for SSR, that is the worst fiasco I've ever hear of. But I've had some pretty bad things happen before and gotten the "soo sad, too bad" look, and nothing ever comes of it.
At the time when it did happen, it probably would've benefited for you to find a house phone, they're usually right there at the bus stops, and call the front desk to have them call transportation to say hey, I need a bus here. I've heard of stories where the manager's said ok, and pulled up in a company car to take them directly there.

And darthtatter, I suggest getting the red sticker that's stroller>wheelchair. It's a little more visible, and easier than explaining every time. So you can just point to it, and don't have to say a word.

 

[Talking Hands]

I have not looked it up for a while, but I am quite certain that the law doesn't require able bodied passengers to give up their seats. As far as I remember, drivers are required to ask passengers in the seats in the wheelchair to give up their seats. Most will give up their seats willingly.
If they refuse, the bus is considered 'full' for that stop and no other passengers can be loaded at that stop.

Unfortunately I do not see this followed by the drivers. Instead what I see is sorry you will have to wait for the next bus to arrive and then they go ahead and load everyone else waiting.
Also the sign is not in strong enough terms. It doesn't make people feel it is a necessary thing, just a nice thing to do if you feel like it.

 

[SueM in MN]

Unfortunately I do not see this followed by the drivers. Instead what I see is sorry you will have to wait for the next bus to arrive and then they go ahead and load everyone else waiting.
Also the sign is not in strong enough terms. It doesn't make people feel it is a necessary thing, just a nice thing to do if you feel like it.

There are drivers like that, but they are not following the law.
Since the law says they can ask the people sitting there to move, but that they are not required to enforce the people to move, some drivers don't push it.
On our last 2 trips to WDW (October 2007 and April 2008), there were a couple of times each trip where people were already in the seats. In most cases, the driver asked them to move and they did. In the other cases, the CM did not have to ask, they moved as he was coming back to open the back door.

Our experiences were at SSR and at OKW, at times when the buses were not that busy. So, the people who moved were able to get seats. I imagine that people act much differently in situations where the seats are full and getting up means they will have to stand.

NOTE: SEE NOTES IN MY POSTS ON PAGE ONE ABOUT "BUS CONSIDERED FULL"

 

[aubriee]

I have not looked it up for a while, but I am quite certain that the law doesn't require able bodied passengers to give up their seats. As far as I remember, drivers are required to ask passengers in the seats in the wheelchair to give up their seats. Most will give up their seats willingly.
If they refuse, the bus is considered 'full' for that stop and no other passengers can be loaded at that stop.
I have been on a bus twice when the passengers sitting on those seats did not want to move. The driver used peer pressure in both cases. In one, the driver said he was not moving the bus until the people moved. Since the bus was fairly full (but not so full that the people who moved would not get a seat), that option was not 'popular' with the other passengers and the people did move.
In the other situation, there were lots of people waiting to get on at the stop. The driver told the passengers that unless they moved, he would be announcing to the waiting people the reason they could not get on the bus. That was not 'popular' also and the people did move.

I just got back from POFQ (May 3rd-10th). It appears bus drivers are no longer following those rules. POFQ was usually the first stop, but then we went over to PORS. Almost daily it seems I heard a bus driver tell someone in an ECV that the bus was full, to wait for the next bus, then he'd let everyone else at that stop get on. Occasionally there would even be an empty seat or two in the back of the bus, but they'd still tell the ECV group that the bus was full. I never saw a driver ask anyone sitting in that tie down area to move.

 

[SueM in MN]

There is no excuse for these things to happen and people need to complain when that happens.
Every time.
If a phone call came to the Transportation office with a time, bus number (and name, if possible), these things would not happen for very long.

There are bus drivers who are lazy and are taking advantage of the fact that many people using wheelchairs and ECVs are:

• Not aware of the law
• Don't want to have any of what they think is 'special treatment' and are not aware that the correct way is not special treatment
• Don't want to inconvenience anyone else
• Are self conscious anyway and don't want to draw attention to themselves by complaining
• Don't want to get the driver in trouble
• Want to complain, but aren't sure how
• Don't want to take the time to complain since they already wasted enough time with the bus situation
• Probably won't call and complain.

I think the bus drivers do know what they are supposed to do, but some don't do it because:

• are lazy and just don't want to bother with a wheelchair - or even more dangerous, only do part of the job, by 'cutting corners' on the tie down process
• know they probably won't get into trouble for denying someone with a wheelchair or ECV a place because it's unlikely to result in a complaint.
• know they will probably get complaints from other passengers for loading the ECV or wheelchair (and more than one complaint if there is more than one ambulatory person waiting)

I have heard people complain to the 'good' drivers as they get on the bus - "it's not fair that those people get on right away"..."we had to wait in rain while you put her on"...."they took up 3 seats for that one wheelchair"...."it's not fair that the 2 other people with the wheelchair got to go in with it"...."I need to board my stroller thru the back door. It's not fair you let the wheelchair board there, but not my stroller." Anyone who has been around these boards for very long knows that any time the subject of ECVs or wheelchairs or buses come up, it won't get to more than the second page before people start writing just those sorts of things.

If I were in charge, I would do several things:

• Re-educate the drivers so it can be documented that they know what they should do (I think most do know, but if they are going to be disciplined for not following it, they need to be re-educated with clear expectations).
• Let drivers know there will be consequences for complaints (one early consequence I can think of would be to have to actually use a wheelchair or ECV for a day) .
• Give drivers some 'tools' for dealing with irate passengers (you know the kind - the ones who would rather not see wheelchairs or ECVs at all and are not willing to wait for a few seconds)
• Put up some educational signs at the bus stops that explain the law how wheelchairs/ECVs are loaded so there is at least a chance that a few other passengers will understand.
• Put up some educational signs at bus stops that let people using wheelchairs/ECV know the law and how to make a complaint.
• Have some 'secret shopper' type bus riders using wheelchairs and/or ECVs doing secret observations.

 

[ireland_nicole]

Sue - or other informed ECV or W/C users.

Can you help us figure out a "procedure" when this kind of thing occurs?
i.e. What to say to the driver, the phone number to call transportation from the cell phone, who to ask for when calling, etc? If we can create a more organized and consistent resonse, it's bound to help (and maybe keep someone like, oh say me, from losing my cool? confused3 )
Thanks

 

[DizneyDogs]

well said Sue and some very good points!

I found it interesting that most able bodied people while they have to wait for the wheelchairs/ECV to load first they easily forget that when we do get to the final destination they will be the 1st ones off!

We also found that many people don't know how to walk at WDW we had so many people dart out in front the ECV or people letting their small children run around in the crowds and not hold them by the hands. A couple of times on our trip my DH or I had to grab a small child who ran out in front my mother and then the parents give us nasty looks and look at us like it's our fault. Or people are looking at something and not watching where they are walking. Another lady in an ECV that we talked to while waiting for Illuminations said she was going to make some signs to put on her ECV that said something to the effect:

WATCH OUT! I will run over you if you get in my way or stop walking in the middle of the walkway

I mow down small children

It's a good thing I don't drive drunk

LOL she was quite the character and it was all in good humor!