Disney and immigrants..this is interesting..

[Josh Hendy]

Is that rhetorical? I think you know the answer to your questions...

Not entirely rhetorical. Other than the very largest banks getting away with pretty massive monetary fraud I don't see a lot of major corporate violations of federal law that go completely undetected and unpunished for very long. Sooner or later Enrons get called out for fraud and oil companies go down for oil spills.

It's a mystery to me why immigration laws are systematically violated in thus way. Obviously the congress and administration are corrupt but why are they more so in this area. Banking is easy to understand because trillions of dollars are at stake and banks are the vehicles through which governments sustain themselves with ever-increasing borrowing.

If immigration violations are ignored it might be because the victims are widely dispersed and disorganized, and they can be discredited by implying that they're anti-immigrant, anti-foreigner or racist. And because most of the public are not IT or computer programmers and don't feel much sympathy for a fairly well paid class of people.

Still ... I can't help thinking that an ambitious federal prosecutor could find a way into this mess by getting a warrant to look into the H1-B "facilitator", the way that big players in other areas are brought down by taking a hard look at (and leaning on) their associates. A big company who works entirely in the public eye and who's somewhat weakened by financial shocks and criticism for above-inflation price increases and cutting employees' shifts should be worried that they don't get culled out of the herd as an example or as a sop to improve the immigration dept's public image.

Possibly Disney's problem is more egregious than usual, in the way that they added insult to injory by compelling the displaced workers to train and supervise their replacements. It seems to me that this is going a little bit beyond "blatant".

 

[Eoghann]

I don't see Disney happily violating any other federal laws by committing tax evasion, polluting, robbing banks, kidnapping, securities fraud, or transporting a minor across a state line for an immoral purpose. And I can't imagine them getting away with those things for long even if they did feel so inclined.

So the question, if you're interested, is why can American corporations happily break federal immigration laws and get away with it with complete impunity? When anyone else who tries the same thing is called a "human trafficker" and thrown in prison?

That's not an unimportant detail, that's saying something pretty big about the USA, its corporations, and Disney Corporation in particular.

Pretty much every US corporation is engaged in tax evasion...

 

[Magic Fanatic]

But I think you have to look at it in the context of general population growth. There has been no net gain according to the us census since 2000...

But over time our population has risen and therefore the "rise" in immigrants compared to the whole population has not increased.

I was clueless about these things until I started looking at some studies and figures and after realized that there really is no problem. But I should have trusted that when I realized who was pushing it...because it's easier to manipulate people when you make crap up...so says the talking picture panel and fair and balanced coverage.

I think my friend is right when it comes to Disney on this issue - they have had some bad publicity of late because they are trying to save some pennies off skilled labor. They are guilty as charged but will not suffer at all.

I'm sorry but you are quoting US Census data as the basis of your position, yet the most current census data is 6 years old (2010) and the next census is not to be done for 4 more years. Those numbers simply do not address the inflows seen over the last 5 years. To say you have looked at some studies and reached the conclusion that there is really no problem seems somewhat naive at best. I am certain that many residents of southern boarder states would take issue with your conclusion.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm sorry but you are quoting US Census data as the basis of your position, yet the most current census data is 6 years old (2010) and the next census is not to be done for 4 more years. Those numbers simply do not address the inflows seen over the last 5 years. To say you have looked at some studies and reached the conclusion that there is really no problem seems somewhat naive at best. I am certain that many residents of southern boarder states would take issue with your conclusion.

So you're saying people have been streaming over the border in unprecedented numbers?

Ok...got it...ill wait to see the hard data.
If you're gonna invalidate my argument...I'm gonna have to invalidate the one that's being pushed by others...my favorite from a "journalist" was that the government claims there's 10,000,000 undocumented immigrants since 1980...but the "real" number is 35,000,000...

Why? Just cause.

 

[Magic Fanatic]

So you're saying people have been streaming over the border in unprecedented numbers?

Ok...got it...ill wait to see the hard data.
If you're gonna invalidate my argument...I'm gonna have to invalidate the one that's being pushed by others...my favorite from a "journalist" was that the government claims there's 10,000,000 undocumented immigrants since 1980...but the "real" number is 35,000,000...

Why? Just cause.

Your post is interesting. I simply pointed out you were basing your argument on out dated data and ignoring the last events of the last 5 years. From that you your take away is that I have made the statement that "people have been streaming over the border in unprecedented numbers?". No, I didn't make any such statement, those are your words. Then you go on to somehow try invalidate some other claim (in no way associated to me) for some unknown reason that had nothing to do with my response to you. Why? Just cause I guess. You can try and reset the discussion but it does not change the fact that your census data is 6 years out of date and irrelevant to the point you are trying to claim as fact.

 

[cmash95]

ok disney didn't break any law. they did take advantage of a loophole in the immigration code to bring in these immigrants and are paying the price for it. Disney isn't the only corporation to do this and frankly I am surpirsed that they haven't moved their call center to india or pakistan as others have. That will be the next thing to be cut because of the so called budget cuts. and yes i said so called because if disney really wanted to do budget cuts they would do things like closing parks not only early but also be open six days of the week. that would save tons of money but they haven;t done that.

 

[Nezumi Fan]

Sure, but do we really doubt they would have happily violated other laws if it could save them money and they could get away with it? The fact it was immigration laws strikes me as a detail rather than a key point in the whole endeavor.

And abuse of the H1B visa is especially pernicious, especially among tech companies (of which, in this aspect, Disney is one).

 

[ThurlFan]

And abuse of the H1B visa is especially pernicious, especially among tech companies (of which, in this aspect, Disney is one).

A wanna-be tech company at best, in all honesty

 

[Josh Hendy]

ok disney didn't break any law. they did take advantage of a loophole in the immigration code to bring in these immigrants and are paying the price for it.

If they submitted H1-B visa applications which stated that they could not find any US citizens to fill the jobs, and if they claimed that the new workers would be paid exactly the same wages and benefits as US workers received for the same or similar jobs ... then ... ok they did break the law.

The "loophole" is that the immigration department, congress and the administration have no intentions of enforcing the law. This particular law is apparently just window dressing designed to fool the American people into thinking that they have a government that gives a darn about anything except getting votes and tax money.

"Everybody does it" is fine. Try using that to get out of a speeding or parking ticket some day and see how far it gets you. But "everybody" doesn't make their living by entertaining the public with stories in which every good person always does the right thing. Meaning they abide the law and most importantly they always do what is fair and generous.

 

[KaptKaveman]

Speak with your wallet on this kind of thing. If you disagree with it let them know and stop going to their parks and movies etc.

We have decided that our upcoming trip in June is it for us until they get back to running their company in a manner that Walt Disney would be proud of. Same thing with the movies. I would have liked to have gone to see Deadpool but soon it will be on cable. I don't watch TV so ESPN and ABC don't factor in, but you get the general idea.

 

[wilkeliza]

Speak with your wallet on this kind of thing. If you disagree with it let them know and stop going to their parks and movies etc.

We have decided that our upcoming trip in June is it for us until they get back to running their company in a manner that Walt Disney would be proud of. Same thing with the movies. I would have liked to have gone to see Deadpool but soon it will be on cable. I don't watch TV so ESPN and ABC don't factor in, but you get the general idea.

What do you think Walt would be doing differently? I haven't seen anything that screams Walt would have never run it this way. Pay was crap back then for theme park employees and you had to pay to get in and then pay for each individual ride. He also was willing to treat those who could pay more much better than the base park attendee thus private tours and Club 33. I'm not sure what you are looking for with Walt would have been proud of. I think Walt would have enjoyed the sheer amount of money that is coming in and all the work the different movie departments are doing.

 

[KaptKaveman]

What do you think Walt would be doing differently? I haven't seen anything that screams Walt would have never run it this way. Pay was crap back then for theme park employees and you had to pay to get in and then pay for each individual ride. He also was willing to treat those who could pay more much better than the base park attendee thus private tours and Club 33. I'm not sure what you are looking for with Walt would have been proud of. I think Walt would have enjoyed the sheer amount of money that is coming in and all the work the different movie departments are doing.

Sorry we disagree. I am not looking for anything, I am not demanding anyone make changes to suit me. Once again we will go elsewhere for our three family vacations per year, and in general stop spending money with Disney(though I am sure some will slip through the cracks). What others do is their business and no concern of mine.

 

[wilkeliza]

Sorry we disagree. I am not looking for anything, I am not demanding anyone make changes to suit me. Once again we will go elsewhere for our three family vacations per year, and in general stop spending money with Disney(though I am sure some will slip through the cracks). What others do is their business and no concern of mine.

I just wanted to know what your thoughts were on what Walt would be doing differently. If that is what it takes to get you back to supporting Disney what would that take? When people disagree it opens up room for a discussion and since this is a discussion board that is all I was trying to do. It is okay we disagree but none of us know who Walt really was and we don't know what a 2016 Walt would be like since he didn't live past the 60s.

You are right some money will slip through. Just by the virtue of having cable where you can watch Deadpool even if you don't watch any Disney owned channels they are getting some of your money as a small portion of every package holder goes to each media supplier if it is included in the package you are paying for.

 

[Eoghann]

We have decided that our upcoming trip in June is it for us until they get back to running their company in a manner that Walt Disney would be proud of..

So not until they go back to firing people for organizing unions then?

 

[KaptKaveman]

Hmmm perhaps I have a naive image of Walt Disney, The "crony capitalism" maybe I can see him engaging in. I do have a hard time seeing him treat his employees the way these employees were treated. That isn't even taking into account the immigrant aspect, after all I believe they are being taken advantage of as well.

In the end I like to think I would not run a company like this therefore I do not want to support one run in the same manner.

 

[Eoghann]

Hmmm perhaps I have a naive image of Walt Disney, The "crony capitalism" maybe I can see him engaging in. I do have a hard time seeing him treat his employees the way these employees were treated. That isn't even taking into account the immigrant aspect, after all I believe they are being taken advantage of as well.

The reports on how Walt treated his employees seem to vary quite a lot. Enough that I suspect he was much nicer to some than to others.

 

[midaroco]

What do you think Walt would be doing differently? I haven't seen anything that screams Walt would have never run it this way. Pay was crap back then for theme park employees and you had to pay to get in and then pay for each individual ride. He also was willing to treat those who could pay more much better than the base park attendee thus private tours and Club 33. I'm not sure what you are looking for with Walt would have been proud of. I think Walt would have enjoyed the sheer amount of money that is coming in and all the work the different movie departments are doing.

Yes! Yes! Yes! I agree. I think this idealized view of "What Would Walt Do", while romantic, is not at all realistic to who the businessman really was and how he operated his business. He was as you said, a shrew businessman out for the dollar not the individual.

 

[KaptKaveman]

So not until they go back to firing people for organizing unions then?

Had the Disney employees in question attempted to unionize? Did they show any disloyalty to the company?

 

[circus4u]

High-skilled visa applications hit record high - again
http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/12/technology/h1b-cap-visa-fy-2017/index.html?iid=ob_homepage_tech_pool