Disney Agrees to settle disabilities lawsuit

[clanmcculloch]

High-visibilty non-reserved spots along the route are first-come, first serve for everyone. Now, if a person with normal vision doesn't happen to be able to get a high-visibility spot, it's no big deal. He can find one further away and still see the parade. A visually impaired person doesn't have that option.

Also, depending on the impairment, a visually-impaired person might have difficulty even scoping out a suitable non-reserved spot.

Which spots are high-visibility? Isn't front row pretty much anywhere on the parade routes similar? I guess I'm not understanding how somebody who has a child too short to see over people has more options for viewing locations than somebody with impared vision. These families don't have other options either. They either get there early to stake out a spot or they don't watch (we're in the don't watch group because my autistic daughter can't cope with the wait; it is what it is). I'm honestly not trying to arguementative. I just don't understand how the accessible are offers better visibility than spots say along main street or liberty square.

 

[Earstou]

I would think visually-impaired guests might have difficulty on the regular parade route due to jostling from fellow guests.
I'm not visually-impaired, I am balance-impaired, and I avoid big crowds at Disney due to the pushing and shoving that usually occurs. I could see this being a big problem for the visually-impaired, too.

 

[ttintagel]

Which spots are high-visibility? Isn't front row pretty much anywhere on the parade routes similar? I guess I'm not understanding how somebody who has a child too short to see over people has more options for viewing locations than somebody with impared vision. These families don't have other options either. They either get there early to stake out a spot or they don't watch (we're in the don't watch group because my autistic daughter can't cope with the wait; it is what it is). I'm honestly not trying to arguementative. I just don't understand how the accessible are offers better visibility than spots say along main street or liberty square.

So you'd get rid of the wheelchair spaces, too? After all, the poor, deprived, able-bodied short children can't get any higher than a wheelchair.

 

[SueM in MN]

I would think visually-impaired guests might have difficulty on the regular parade route due to jostling from fellow guests.
I'm not visually-impaired, I am balance-impaired, and I avoid big crowds at Disney due to the pushing and shoving that usually occurs. I could see this being a big problem for the visually-impaired, too.

I think this is an important point. At MK, the parade areas have curbs. Being parked along the curb with a wheelchair can be kind of scary - it would be easy to fall off the curb, so I can see that would be a concern for guests with other disabilities too.
That is not the case for some of the day parades, such as at the Studio or AK, which don’t have curbs.

But, I hope that they make a separate viewing area for guests with visual impairments or at least place the standing guests at the end of the current viewing areas in one area, not mixed in with the guests in wheelchairs.

Currently, at most viewing areas, the guests with wheelchairs are lined up along the front of the viewing area and the rest of their party is standing behind them. That allows the guests with wheelchairs to see the parade. If guests who are standing are mixed in, it blocks the view of the guests who are seated.

They will also need to make more handicapped viewing spots for high crowd times - already some of them fill up an hour before the parade and there are 2 or even 3 rows of guests with wheelchairs lined up across the front.

 

[SueM in MN]

I don't think anyone without a visual impairment would get this. But I am thrilled! It has been a long time coming, and it is not just a Disney problem. Just two years ago, a federal agency who deals with disabilities was sued by blind individuals, for not accommodating them, social security who I paid into for more than 40 years finally has to call me up and read me letters when they send me things within 3 days of mailing them to me. I have said for years, blind individuals are the least accommodated, just last year I was told by a driver who advertised on this board that he would not drive us to WDW with service animals, just last year WDW refused to allow me to sit up front even with my GAC pass, and less than two years ago DL hotel refused to give me orientation of my hotel room, when requested, I had to get a supervisor to get this service. Most things I just over look, but it wears a person down when the only accommodation that the ADA has giving blind persons in 20 years is that when I as a blind person drives through a drive through ATM at a bank, it is in second grade Braille for me to do my banking.

I want to live independent and fight daily to do that since not one business or state agency will send me mail in alternative format, only social security does and they only started late last year to do so. At least once a week I am told my dog can not accompany me somewhere even in a harness. Every time, and I mean every time I go to Walmart I am stopped at the door by the greeter and asked if my dog is a service dog, even by the same person and I have lived here 21 years and go to Walmart every week at least once, but I always have to stop and answer that question. And it infuriates me even more when all the senior citizens have there little chaweenie dogs and are stopped and they all say yes it is a service dog, what is the point when all you have to do is say yes even if you are lying.

So am I happy, yes beyond happy but I will have to see the results and I hope thousand more law suits are filed until blind individuals get the rights the deserve in all businesses. Disney could have settled this a long time ago, if they wanted to and saved a lot of money.

We are asked every time DD takes her Service Dog into Walmart too. I think they are doing it to be consistent with every person who comes in with a dog.
But, it gets to be a bit much.
Girl with wheelchair holding leash of black dog with bright red jacket with 2 inch high letters that say "Service Dog” should tell you something without asking.

Using a scanner and kurzweil can be a great aid for those that need assistance reading printed information at home, school or at work. I don't know of a portable system though.

There are iPhone apps for magnification, but I am not sure about scanning and reading.
Mobile Magic park app includes GPS, so I wonder if it could be enabled in some way for way finding - like reading out what is close by and how far to specific attractions.
I know from other work I do that it is easier to make things work consistently for iPhones than Android because there are so many “flavors” of Android. But, there are probably Android versions of magnification and readers.

 

[buffettgirl]

I'm just a tiny bit shocked that we're debating the need for accommodations for any group of disabled guests. This is a win for everyone.

 

[Disneykidsdad]

A thread in another forum (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2881090) had discussed a lawsuit that was filed against Disney, alleging that it had failed to accommodate visitors with disabilities. Late yesterday, the plaintiffs and Disney announced that they had reached a settlement (which still must be approved by the court).

Some of the original claims have been narrowed or dropped altogether, but Disney would make various practice/policy changes. In addition, the named plaintiffs would get $15,000 each, and their attorneys would get fees/costs of up $1.55 million.

The document itself is 95 pages (http://ia600502.us.archive.org/19/items/gov.uscourts.cacd.479242/gov.uscourts.cacd.479242.196.1.pdf), but it includes the following summary of its key terms:

Under the Settlement Agreement Disney has agreed to enhance the services it currently offers to guests with visual impairments at the Disney Parks and on websites owned or operated by Disney. Those changes include: updating its guidelines regarding the manner in which costumed Disney characters interact with guests accompanied by service animals; providing certain Braille schedules, menus and maps; providing additional audio description and information about facilities and attractions on the handheld device already available to guests with visual disabilities; modifying policies and practices applicable to guests accompanied by service animals, including designating additional relief areas for service animals and modifying the options available to guests accompanied by service animals when service animals cannot ride on certain attractions; providing a limited number of free admission passes to be distributed by an agreed-upon charitable organization serving individuals with visual impairments; modifying guidelines regarding the reserved viewing areas for guests with disabilities at live parades; enhancing locker and parking facilities; and enhancing procedures and standards for making websites owned or operated by Disney accessible to users who access those websites using screen reader software utilities.​

This part I like. When we go to WDW with our daughter's service dog, it's not always easy to fine the relief area. Alot of CM's don't know where they are. It has taken us up to 1/2 hour to be taken to one. It would also be nice to be able to put the dog in a crate once in a while so my daughter, wife and I could ride a ride together. Just a couple would be great.

 

[clanmcculloch]

So you'd get rid of the wheelchair spaces, too? After all, the poor, deprived, able-bodied short children can't get any higher than a wheelchair.

Apples and oranges. People with vision issues have difficulty seeing. I was just asking how one area is better than another and trying to understand that need. A person who's in a wheelchair has completely different set of needs. Accomodations are based on a need so I'm just trying to understand what need is being met by standing in the wheelchair accessible area as opposed to standing on a curb elsewhere along a parade route. What about standing elsewhere puts a person with vision issues in a position to not be able to take in a parade more-so than people with typical vision and how does standing in the wheelchair accessible area correct that? Isn't that the whole point of accomodations? To give a person who has a disability of some kind EQUAL access.

I'm just a tiny bit shocked that we're debating the need for accommodations for any group of disabled guests. This is a win for everyone.

I think you're missing my point. I'm not questioning if a particular group should be accomodated or not. Absolutely any disabiltiy should be accomodated so that they have equal access. I'm questioning if an accomodation needs to be labelled as for a specific group (a pp seemed to think that being seated in a section labeled for a different disability was unacceptable even though it sounds as though this accomodation likely DID fit that person's need; isn't it about the need after all?). I'm questioning if we as guests with disability should be demanding whatever accomodations that we want even if when we think about it we already have the same access as everybody else. Both of these things make it more difficult for EVERYBODY with any kind of disability because then CMs start questioning if they should bother and they start getting grumpy with us because they've been snapped at and yelled at by other guests with disabilities.

In the case of the parade that I was asking about, if there is a difference in ability to see in the accessible area then absolutely a person with vision issues should be allowed to be there. If the difference is just that the person doesn't want to wait to scope out a spot like hundreds of families without a disability then I don't understand as the access is already equal. Isn't that the point of accomodations? To make access equal?

 

[utterrandomness]

Apples and oranges. People with vision issues have difficulty seeing. I was just asking how one area is better than another and trying to understand that need. A person who's in a wheelchair has completely different set of needs. Accomodations are based on a need so I'm just trying to understand what need is being met by standing in the wheelchair accessible area as opposed to standing on a curb elsewhere along a parade route. What about standing elsewhere puts a person with vision issues in a position to not be able to take in a parade more-so than people with typical vision and how does standing in the wheelchair accessible area correct that? Isn't that the whole point of accomodations? To give a person who has a disability of some kind EQUAL access.



I think you're missing my point. I'm not questioning if a particular group should be accomodated or not. Absolutely any disabiltiy should be accomodated so that they have equal access. I'm questioning if an accomodation needs to be labelled as for a specific group (a pp seemed to think that being seated in a section labeled for a different disability was unacceptable even though it sounds as though this accomodation likely DID fit that person's need; isn't it about the need after all?). I'm questioning if we as guests with disability should be demanding whatever accomodations that we want even if when we think about it we already have the same access as everybody else. Both of these things make it more difficult for EVERYBODY with any kind of disability because then CMs start questioning if they should bother and they start getting grumpy with us because they've been snapped at and yelled at by other guests with disabilities.

In the case of the parade that I was asking about, if there is a difference in ability to see in the accessible area then absolutely a person with vision issues should be allowed to be there. If the difference is just that the person doesn't want to wait to scope out a spot like hundreds of families without a disability then I don't understand as the access is already equal. Isn't that the point of accomodations? To make access equal?

My problem with your comment is that you do not know why people are doing what they're doing. Who are you to judge what people do and do not need? Sometimes people's needs aren't immediately obvious, and those of us in that situation get really tired of dealing with people that can't understand that their perception might not encompass the reality of the situation.

 

[clanmcculloch]

My problem with your comment is that you do not know why people are doing what they're doing. Who are you to judge what people do and do not need? Sometimes people's needs aren't immediately obvious, and those of us in that situation get really tired of dealing with people that can't understand that their perception might not encompass the reality of the situation.

You seem to be missing what I'm asking. Why does the standard viewing not meet your need (the you in your is whomever needs the accomodation)? Is there a reason people won't answer this? Maybe this is why these individuals encoutering difficulty with CMs. It's important to be able to explain why the regular viewing won't work for you. I'm not saying that people don't have a need but I am saying that you've got to be able to explain why the regular way of doing whatever you need accomodation for does not work for you. This is a message board and we're discussing how WDW was not meeting needs of a particular disability. A few people pointed out a specific situation in which they felt their needs weren't met because they weren't given exactly what they asked for. Well, can they please explain why they need it as opposed to the regular viewing area? Did they try doing that with the CMs at the accessible viewing area? If a person's GAC says front row seating, how is the accessible seating meeting that need when there's front row seating all along the route available to everybody? There is no "front row" area for a parade so there's no front row accomodation. Accessible seating is not front row. If the GAC isn't sufficient then they DO need to explain to the CM.

 

[buffettgirl]

I was going to wait for someone else to answer, but I'll jump in and speak from the spot that I find myself in now with my son and the eventual outcome of his vision loss.

so for him right now he has trouble in low lighting situations - he still can see reasonably well, midrange, but not at a distance and not up close(which isn't really relevant unless he's trying to read a menu) but mostly he gets very disoriented when the lighting gets low. Should we be simply sitting on a curb (and you all know how pushing and shoving it gets even when you stake out your spot) he gets nervous because even if we step back a few spots to let other kids sit he doesn't know where we are once those lights go down. I can see him, but he can't see us. So in this situation, having a controlled area to sit (like the roped off area) would do a lot to make him able to watch the parade. It's not that he can't see the parade while sitting on the curb, but it's that the darkness around him and the fact that he can't see us is the bigger issue. Picture sitting in a dark space and then not being able to figure out the people around you - is the guy next to you your dh or not? (and not that at this point I think we even need to be accommodated yet because we can make it work right now, but in a few years we certainly are going to)

Now, as for the seating at the Candelight Processional. I didn't read the OPs statement the way you're all reading it. I read it as she was told there was no "vision" section yet eventually she was led to the "hearing" section (not the "section for all people with disabilities) and was just speaking in amazement that the CM didn't seem to think that there was a need for her to sit there. I'm not sure since she hasn't been back, but that's how I read her statement. Not that she didn't want to sit in the "hearing impaired" section and not that she felt that there needed to be a separate "vision impaired" section, but that the CM didn't immediately direct her to the appropriate section. Also, I have n ever been to the CP, but someone mentioned in another thread (or maybe it was PM to me during a discussion of vision issues) that sometimes the front row - or the assigned seats for visual impairment - are not the most appropriate seats. For instance, my son has bilateral peripheral vision loss, on the upper corners of his eyes. So if he were to sit low and try to look up that will be right where his vision is missing. So this other poster explained that it's ok to ask for a different location if the 'front' just doesn't work (and after she told me this it was like ahha! that's so true, it wouldn't work for my child).

so...unless I'm totally misreading the post about the CP (which is what I think started the discussion) I think it was simply that there was no assigned seating for this OP and she was questioning why.

but, I can only speak from the perspective that I have at this moment, knowing what my son is dealing with visually and being able to see why someone might need something slightly different - or why would someone want to be in the wheelchair area etc.

 

[Dismom55]

I don't know if it will ever be possible for Disney to accomodate all disabilities, I have had several strokes that have left me unable to stand for long periods of time, standing in long lines is downright painful, but I manage while at Disney, standing to watch the parades not really possible, does that mean Disney should provide a place for me to sit? Then in addition for me, the first stroke left me with less than stellar vision, so if I am not in front forget it, but I can not get up if I were to sit on the curb and even if I did so many would stand in front of me, but it is impossible for Disney to accomodate me and I have long gotten over the fact that I do not really get to enjoy most parades. My dear MIL was legally blind, so I do have a great perspective on vision limitations as I would read menus, labels, mail whatever I could to her to help her out. I do feel we got great service from all restaurants in 09, we let them know in advance that my mother and I were diabetic and the chief came out and told us what to stay away from and what was best to order and in one case they even had to send away to get a sugar free desert.

So yes Disney should do what they can to assist those with medical issues, disabilities, whatever issues that prevent from taking full enjoyment, but realistically how could they prepare for all the little things we have going on. But I do agree they should try to be more proactive on the major issues.

 

[gilesmt]

I with a visual impairment can try to answer some of the questions.

Does anywhere on the parade route work. No not always. First, you do have the jostling, which is very difficult for someone with a visual impairment.

Second, and I'm sure you will say that happens to everyone, I have staked out a spot, got up front and 10 minutes before the parade a group of kids, sit down in front of me, not to bad, but then they start moving out into the rode, or fighting and mom behind me keeps having to push her way into me to stop the kids, now I am behind her when another regroup of kids come up and push themselves in front of me, and it starts all over again until I am third behind, now if you are not visually impaired this may work, but I am visually impaired and now I can't see anything so why stay and watch. One reason I have not been to a parade in probably 10 years.

Third, I have a service dog, I will say that most kids are very good in the park with the service dog, and many of them tell mom and dad they can not pet. That works great when walking, but when in a parade route, the kids are board sitting waiting for 30 or more minutes and this cute puppy is just sitting there. So here comes the can I pet, can I pet, can I pet, or the don't ask just do it. Also, you have the popcorn and candy and candy apples and ice cream all right down at the dogs level, it is a constant struggle, to keep my balance, watch the dog and make sure the kids who are just being kids are behaving.

Fourth, I have to worry about people stepping or wheeling over my dogs paws. Even by accident, this is a real concern to me, what would my life be like if she broke her foot. Also, have to worry about her stepping on someone else, how awful would it be if she jumped and stepped on a two year olds foot in sandals and her paws scratched, even if just by accident.

Until now Disney's policy would be to sit me where w/c's go. Well that does not always work for a visually impaired person. I have not been to bugs life or muppets in years since they routinely sit me in the middle row, when I ask for front row, they give the same excuse, this is where all GAC accommodations go, now I am speaking more about DL and DCA since I have been there more. When seated in fantastic, at DL with w/c this is not front row, and again, for me to see anything, I need to be up front, but people in w/c believe they need to be up front also( and I am not making any argument as to this point) so when they see a person who is standing they just push and push, until the person standing moves back, not everyone, and I understand there point, if I can stand than I should be behind them, so my disability takes a back seat to there disability.

Someone asked the question, what difference does it make if you can't see. To me a lot. First, I want my personal space, I'm sure a lot of people do, but to me who can not see, I need my personal space to feel at ease and comfortable, not to be pushed off balance. Second I need space for my dog, who needs a little personal space to be able to do her job. Third, I can see, but not like you or others, fantastic, woc and a few other shows I think look like laser light shows to me, maybe not what Disney wanted but enjoyable to me. I may personally never wish to watch a parade(except maybe the electrically light parade) but my children did, and my granddaughter does now, so if I must, I just want a little space t allow me and my dog safety while watching.

Sue, Walmart frustrates me because if you read the law, it states they are allowed to ask questions if not apparent!!! My dog is in harness, it has been with me every week, my first dog 7 years, this dog 6 months. I believe WA marts policy of asking every person with a dog is harassment and would love to see someone sue them over it. Unless they are going to stop allowing the companion dogs, therapy dogs and pets into the store, than they should not be asking at all. This is against ADA, because it states you can not point out an harass persons with disabilities, if there is a question, like a dog for autism or PTSD because I am told some of them do not wear vest because it would inerfer with the work, but the law states that no questions should be asked it it is clear to the observer that the dog is a service dog. WA marts policy clearly, discriminates against me, since my dog is clearly in a harness, with the name of the school clearly visible on the harness and I clearly frequent that establishment enough for the greeter to know me and my dog by name, but I am still asked every time. As a disabled I feel like Walmart is announcing over the loud speaker, blind person with dog in store.

 

[clanmcculloch]

I was going to wait for someone else to answer, but I'll jump in and speak from the spot that I find myself in now with my son and the eventual outcome of his vision loss.

so for him right now he has trouble in low lighting situations - he still can see reasonably well, midrange, but not at a distance and not up close(which isn't really relevant unless he's trying to read a menu) but mostly he gets very disoriented when the lighting gets low. Should we be simply sitting on a curb (and you all know how pushing and shoving it gets even when you stake out your spot) he gets nervous because even if we step back a few spots to let other kids sit he doesn't know where we are once those lights go down. I can see him, but he can't see us. So in this situation, having a controlled area to sit (like the roped off area) would do a lot to make him able to watch the parade. It's not that he can't see the parade while sitting on the curb, but it's that the darkness around him and the fact that he can't see us is the bigger issue. Picture sitting in a dark space and then not being able to figure out the people around you - is the guy next to you your dh or not? (and not that at this point I think we even need to be accommodated yet because we can make it work right now, but in a few years we certainly are going to)

Now, as for the seating at the Candelight Processional. I didn't read the OPs statement the way you're all reading it. I read it as she was told there was no "vision" section yet eventually she was led to the "hearing" section (not the "section for all people with disabilities) and was just speaking in amazement that the CM didn't seem to think that there was a need for her to sit there. I'm not sure since she hasn't been back, but that's how I read her statement. Not that she didn't want to sit in the "hearing impaired" section and not that she felt that there needed to be a separate "vision impaired" section, but that the CM didn't immediately direct her to the appropriate section. Also, I have n ever been to the CP, but someone mentioned in another thread (or maybe it was PM to me during a discussion of vision issues) that sometimes the front row - or the assigned seats for visual impairment - are not the most appropriate seats. For instance, my son has bilateral peripheral vision loss, on the upper corners of his eyes. So if he were to sit low and try to look up that will be right where his vision is missing. So this other poster explained that it's ok to ask for a different location if the 'front' just doesn't work (and after she told me this it was like ahha! that's so true, it wouldn't work for my child).

so...unless I'm totally misreading the post about the CP (which is what I think started the discussion) I think it was simply that there was no assigned seating for this OP and she was questioning why.

but, I can only speak from the perspective that I have at this moment, knowing what my son is dealing with visually and being able to see why someone might need something slightly different - or why would someone want to be in the wheelchair area etc.

Thank you! This is the kind of thing I was asking about. I can see how in your situation with your son, it could be dangerous to sit on the curb with him. The potential for being separated and him not finding you is a real risk. That being said, you are very well spoken and I'm just not imagining you walking up to a CM demanding to be seated in a specific area. I would imagine you would explain that the purpose of your GAC is so that you can be protected from this kind of jockying and being separated due to his inability to find you if you have people squeeze between you with his particular type of vision difficulty. That doesn't mean that EVERY person who has a GAC indicating vision issues needs this. Clearly you can explain your needed accomodation to CMs and should be helped by them. If they refuse then that's horrible. I'm not even trying to say that your situation is the only one that would require an accomodation for parades because obviously there are other situations as well, many I'm sure that I can't think of myself. I'm just saying that some people are coming across as though a blanket disability of vision impairment should automatically mean seating in the accessible area. As the mother of an autistic child, I know that people with the same diagnosis could very easily have very different needs and I DO expect to have to explain my family's need.

Maybe I did misinterpret that person's situation at CP. I think I've read that particular posted making demands in the past that make me shake my head. I could be reading more into the situation than was intended. I HAD read it as though the person was upset that they weren't given an area specifically for vision impairment. If that's not the intention then I appologize for taking up time in this thread for this part of my questions.

I with a visual impairment can try to answer some of the questions.

Does anywhere on the parade route work. No not always. First, you do have the jostling, which is very difficult for someone with a visual impairment.

Second, and I'm sure you will say that happens to everyone, I have staked out a spot, got up front and 10 minutes before the parade a group of kids, sit down in front of me, not to bad, but then they start moving out into the rode, or fighting and mom behind me keeps having to push her way into me to stop the kids, now I am behind her when another regroup of kids come up and push themselves in front of me, and it starts all over again until I am third behind, now if you are not visually impaired this may work, but I am visually impaired and now I can't see anything so why stay and watch. One reason I have not been to a parade in probably 10 years.

Third, I have a service dog, I will say that most kids are very good in the park with the service dog, and many of them tell mom and dad they can not pet. That works great when walking, but when in a parade route, the kids are board sitting waiting for 30 or more minutes and this cute puppy is just sitting there. So here comes the can I pet, can I pet, can I pet, or the don't ask just do it. Also, you have the popcorn and candy and candy apples and ice cream all right down at the dogs level, it is a constant struggle, to keep my balance, watch the dog and make sure the kids who are just being kids are behaving.

Fourth, I have to worry about people stepping or wheeling over my dogs paws. Even by accident, this is a real concern to me, what would my life be like if she broke her foot. Also, have to worry about her stepping on someone else, how awful would it be if she jumped and stepped on a two year olds foot in sandals and her paws scratched, even if just by accident.

Until now Disney's policy would be to sit me where w/c's go. Well that does not always work for a visually impaired person. I have not been to bugs life or muppets in years since they routinely sit me in the middle row, when I ask for front row, they give the same excuse, this is where all GAC accommodations go, now I am speaking more about DL and DCA since I have been there more. When seated in fantastic, at DL with w/c this is not front row, and again, for me to see anything, I need to be up front, but people in w/c believe they need to be up front also( and I am not making any argument as to this point) so when they see a person who is standing they just push and push, until the person standing moves back, not everyone, and I understand there point, if I can stand than I should be behind them, so my disability takes a back seat to there disability.

Someone asked the question, what difference does it make if you can't see. To me a lot. First, I want my personal space, I'm sure a lot of people do, but to me who can not see, I need my personal space to feel at ease and comfortable, not to be pushed off balance. Second I need space for my dog, who needs a little personal space to be able to do her job. Third, I can see, but not like you or others, fantastic, woc and a few other shows I think look like laser light shows to me, maybe not what Disney wanted but enjoyable to me. I may personally never wish to watch a parade(except maybe the electrically light parade) but my children did, and my granddaughter does now, so if I must, I just want a little space t allow me and my dog safety while watching.

Sue, Walmart frustrates me because if you read the law, it states they are allowed to ask questions if not apparent!!! My dog is in harness, it has been with me every week, my first dog 7 years, this dog 6 months. I believe WA marts policy of asking every person with a dog is harassment and would love to see someone sue them over it. Unless they are going to stop allowing the companion dogs, therapy dogs and pets into the store, than they should not be asking at all. This is against ADA, because it states you can not point out an harass persons with disabilities, if there is a question, like a dog for autism or PTSD because I am told some of them do not wear vest because it would inerfer with the work, but the law states that no questions should be asked it it is clear to the observer that the dog is a service dog. WA marts policy clearly, discriminates against me, since my dog is clearly in a harness, with the name of the school clearly visible on the harness and I clearly frequent that establishment enough for the greeter to know me and my dog by name, but I am still asked every time. As a disabled I feel like Walmart is announcing over the loud speaker, blind person with dog in store.

OMG, with a service dog I can't imagine sitting by the curb. That would I imagine be very dangerous for the dog.

I do think it's wrong when you're told that the accomodation is black and white you have to sit in a specific area when we all know that the same diagnosis will potentially mean different accomodation requirements for different people. I'm sorry to hear that you have to deal with this. Hopefully this is some of what will be addressed with the changes that will hopefully come about as a result of this lawsuit. You should be able to state what difficulty you have and be accomodated rather than being told "you have to sit in area xyz because that's what we have for all blanket disabilities". That's just wrong.

I do want to mention that issues with balance and needing to not be in crowded areas in order to avoid being bumped should be discussed with Guest Relations. This could potentially require a different accomodation than one needed for visual impairment. From the CMs' perspectives, if they see a GAC indicating visual impairment, they're typically going to thing that the only thing you need help with (whether this is right or wrong) is being close up to shows/screen and that you might need to avoid hazzards. I do see how a person with extremely limitted vision could easily be thrown off balance when bumped but I don't know if CMs will consider this when looking at accomodating vision impairment. I guess you know from your own experience if whatever accomodation you're given for the service dog or if whatever accomodation you're given for your vision issues is enough or not. Just something to think about though.

ETA: I hope I'm not the person who asked what difference it makes if you can't see. I totally get that you want to experience WDW with your family and that you can still enjoy all the other sensory inputs. If I did ask (I can't remember or maybe something I said was misinterpretted) then I'm sorry.

 

[buffettgirl]

Thank you! This is the kind of thing I was asking about. I can see how in your situation with your son, it could be dangerous to sit on the curb with him. The potential for being separated and him not finding you is a real risk. That being said, you are very well spoken and I'm just not imagining you walking up to a CM demanding to be seated in a specific area. I would imagine you would explain that the purpose of your GAC is so that you can be protected from this kind of jockying and being separated due to his inability to find you if you have people squeeze between you with his particular type of vision difficulty. That doesn't mean that EVERY person who has a GAC indicating vision issues needs this. Clearly you can explain your needed accomodation to CMs and should be helped by them. If they refuse then that's horrible. I'm not even trying to say that your situation is the only one that would require an accomodation for parades because obviously there are other situations as well, many I'm sure that I can't think of myself. I'm just saying that some people are coming across as though a blanket disability of vision impairment should automatically mean seating in the accessible area. As the mother of an autistic child, I know that people with the same diagnosis could very easily have very different needs and I DO expect to have to explain my family's need.

Maybe I did misinterpret that person's situation at CP. I think I've read that particular posted making demands in the past that make me shake my head. I could be reading more into the situation than was intended. I HAD read it as though the person was upset that they weren't given an area specifically for vision impairment. If that's not the intention then I appologize for taking up time in this thread for this part of my questions.

it's also possible that was their intention, that they just waved the GAC and expected something without wanting to explain. It's hard really to tell, and I've read it a few times now trying to see what you're seeing (just as I'm sure you have, trying to see what I'm seeing).

Someone else said that they can't accommodate everyone, but yes they can. To a certain extent they must. Yet like you said, not everyone with the same disability needs the same thing (I have tons of friends in the diabetes world who get GAC for their kids - hoping to skip lines, minimize waits, I'm not sure what, and I honestly can't see the need or the reasoning) and so I'm sure there are many who have visual issues who need one thing over another. And yet many people don't have to explain their needs - they just show the card and the CM waves them on to wherever....

Perhaps it's really time that Disney revamps the whole GAC process and makes it less of a one stamp fits all process (which we know doesn't really work), and go more with written instructions for the CM. I'm not sure why they can't electronically type notes onto a card ("this guest needs a choice of viewing spots - not necessarily front row." or "this guest needs to remain in a lit area" or "this guest needs room for her service dog ") but something that gives a little more info, then the card can be printed off GS that then a CM can scan and read what Guest Services intends for the guest. I mean, they can hold a lot of info in a little scan paper card - or a QR reader, etc. A new system would do a few things really: It would allow the guest and GS to go over needs in depth once and would allow the guest not to have to explain needs at every attraction with a CM who might not quite understand, and it would take the CM out of the equation for having to make any determination on what the needs really are and it would also let the CM know that these needs have already been vetted and approved by Guest Services.

The whole stamp thing just lends itself to so many issues open for so much misinterpretation.


(oh and you'll all laugh, or perhaps want to beat the crap out of someone) I have a friend who just posted pictures of her latest vacation - not disney - but in every photo she's got her dog. Another friend asked her if she takes the dog everywhere and she admitted that she simply says the dog is a service dog and so her little poodle thing goes with her in restaurants, stores, etc. And people wonder why people with real needs find it so hard. uggh.

 

[clanmcculloch]

They can't accomodate everybody. There are plenty of things we can't do because there are no accomodations. It is what it is and I know it. I'm grateful for what WDW DOES do. Of course some things I don't necessarily agree that there are no reasonable accomodations as I can think of some but the attractions aren't worth the arguement involved in trying to get accomodations. There's plenty of other things we can do and enjoy.

I understand some people don't need to be able to explain their needs and can just show their GAC (sometimes we can) but with the current system having only limitted stamps to try to explain so many different needs, the reality is that sometimes we do need to be able to explain why something won't work and ask for something else. It's just the way it is. CMs aren't mind readers and are limitted in what they have to work with. I agree with you that there should be a better way but it's very complicated and I pity the person who tries to come up with a matrix of all the different possible accomodations (especially when accomodations can change at an attraction based on crowds and time of day). I do also agree with you that even minor tweaks like you mentioned (indicating that requiring a choice of seating is important) could make a difference. But, that also means that for each show they'd have to hold aside special needs seating in just about every part of the theatre which just doesn't seem reasonable. It really is difficult to try to accomodate everybody. Some of the experiences you've described do sound as though they're way too inflexible with vision issues which is something that CAN be correct.

Ugh! I can't stand people like that friend of yours.

 

[gilesmt]

You state that they would have to hold special seating for every show, NO, they could put in the pamphlet that the 10 am show is for visual impairment and the 11 am show will have an interpreter, they do have special shows each week that have interpreters, so why not have special shows for individuals with vision problems, with less crowded seating, or more open up front or middle seating. If ever visually impaired person in the park that day who wanted to see a specific show knew that they would be allowed to go and find there seat at the 10 o'clock show before they allowed anyone else in, than they would all show up at the 10 o'clock show, or at least I would. Just like those who are deaf, they know the interpreter will be at the 11 o'clock show So that is the one they go to. After all the visually impaired persons and families are seated, they then open the doors for others to seat around them. Same with the parade, if they have a special seating area for visually impaired in the morning, then they could use the same area for those who are deaf or in w/c in the afternoon. Same with fantastic, the first show could be for w/c and the second show for visual impairments.

Also, I am assuming we are not talking the same quantity as with other disabilities, when at WDW I (hear) hundreds of w/c's or persona with autism, I personally have never run into another guide dog working, I have (hear) other guide dogs in training, I have only once (heard) another blind person walking with a cane. So we are talking probably a much smaller number.

To me with the small number I would think just allowing them to pick the seat before hand would work, or just roping off one very small little section of a parade route that would hold 6 people would work. If I was told that spot was already taken for the 10 parade I would just say fine I'll come back for the 1 parade.

As for the NOT poodle service dog that just frustrates me. I don't know about other parts of the country but this is why I would have loved ADA to open up the law on service dogs and make rules. HUD started it because apartment seniors were not allowed to keep pets, which is unfair, but it opened up to everyone and there brothers stating that there dog is a service animal so have special rights. I see both sides and have yet to figure out the answer, ADA does not want to say, a service animal has to have this much training, or this much work, or this breed, and who am I to talk when my service animal is free (but it does cost time an energy) and I know some families pay thousands for their service animal. So why should they not be able to train them themselves. But im sorry we do need some regulations, the number of service animals that are pit bulls,is growing in my community by an outrageous amount each year. It really hurts those of us with legitimate service animals, when I got my first service animal 8 years ago, I was stopped and asked maybe once a month about him when entering a business. Now at least once a week I am told I can not enter a business, Walmart won't let me enter without questions that are against ADA, and the bus system and taxi's don't want you on the system even if they have to because it is going to cause the four NOT true service animals on the bus to bark and fight each other when you bring a real service animal on, those poodles, yorkies and Pomeranians start to yelp and fight because they are afraid of the lab who will sit and ignore the other dogs. These are just a few breeds, and there are many more, not saying they are the only breeds. Yes as to the other post this month a pom may detect diabetes, and a yorkie may detect seizures, but most service dog schools would never use these breeds. So I again say, I am frustrated, but I'm torn between make ADA law say this breed or this breed, have to get from school or can train yourself. Or as what should be happening, tran americans to not claim an animal is a service dog just to bring your pet on vacation and not have to pay boarding or pet fees.

 

[buffettgirl]

I don't think they could limit the shows to a certain time any more than they could tell all people in W/C or ECVs that they must take a certain bus. That isn't equal access.

And I don't understand why there isn't some service animal registry. Even if you trained the animal yourself there still could be some way to register your animal and receive some sort of certification (vest? tags?) that were official in some way. This is sort of going off topic, but I guess no one has an issue with needing to provide documentation when requesting a disabled parking tag, why should we care about needing to provide documentation on other disabilities for other services? Like having to provide documentation to register your service animal, for instance. I know that in order for my child to qualify for services based on need, at school he has to have a "record or history of such an impairment".

 

[Schmeck]

I was going to wait for someone else to answer, but I'll jump in and speak from the spot that I find myself in now with my son and the eventual outcome of his vision loss.

so for him right now he has trouble in low lighting situations - he still can see reasonably well, midrange, but not at a distance and not up close(which isn't really relevant unless he's trying to read a menu) but mostly he gets very disoriented when the lighting gets low. Should we be simply sitting on a curb (and you all know how pushing and shoving it gets even when you stake out your spot) he gets nervous because even if we step back a few spots to let other kids sit he doesn't know where we are once those lights go down. I can see him, but he can't see us. So in this situation, having a controlled area to sit (like the roped off area) would do a lot to make him able to watch the parade. It's not that he can't see the parade while sitting on the curb, but it's that the darkness around him and the fact that he can't see us is the bigger issue. Picture sitting in a dark space and then not being able to figure out the people around you - is the guy next to you your dh or not? (and not that at this point I think we even need to be accommodated yet because we can make it work right now, but in a few years we certainly are going to)

but, I can only speak from the perspective that I have at this moment, knowing what my son is dealing with visually and being able to see why someone might need something slightly different - or why would someone want to be in the wheelchair area etc.

I'm not understanding why one area (roped off, but with others using the area with similar issues) would work over another with your explanation. I think the best choice would be to not leave your son's side? To have some kind of wrist-tether that he would feel connected to the parent sitting beside him? You do not have to move back to let kids sit in front of you if it makes it unsafe and unpleasant for your own child. Also, would you do the same (move away from your son) in the roped off area? Wouldn't he feel that same disconnect?

To be blunt - all I'm seeing from this request for a special area for a certain disability is that people believe that they will be able to show up right before a parade and get a very close viewing spot. That's not going to happen - as someone posted before, the accessible areas fill up over an hour before the parade sometimes. So, if people wait at the curb for over an hour in a crowded roped off area, or wait someplace else for over an hour, what is the accommodation being met?

 

[buffettgirl]

I'm not understanding why one area (roped off, but with others using the area with similar issues) would work over another with your explanation. I think the best choice would be to not leave your son's side? To have some kind of wrist-tether that he would feel connected to the parent sitting beside him? You do not have to move back to let kids sit in front of you if it makes it unsafe and unpleasant for your own child. Also, would you do the same (move away from your son) in the roped off area? Wouldn't he feel that same disconnect?

To be blunt - all I'm seeing from this request for a special area for a certain disability is that people believe that they will be able to show up right before a parade and get a very close viewing spot. That's not going to happen - as someone posted before, the accessible areas fill up over an hour before the parade sometimes. So, if people wait at the curb for over an hour in a crowded roped off area, or wait someplace else for over an hour, what is the accommodation being met?

well, first, my son is almost 12. He's a fairly independent pre-teen in most other aspects of life. He won't even let me go on field trips with school so a leash?? not going to happen. Sitting on the curb - we tend to let the kids sit in front and we stand back if possible. I am one of those people who will gladly let a child sit down in front of me. But again, like I said, at the beginning of my post and at the end of my post - these are not things which are a big problem right now and we make them work as is. If I have to sit with him, I do, if his sister is next to him or if I have to periodically lean over and let him know I'm still back there, that's what I do. Same as when we're walking in lines. I was speaking hypothetically as to why someone with low vision might need a spot to view that wouldn't be at the curb. Why there might be some needs that maybe no one has thought about re: low vision.

and you can be as blunt as you like but no where did anyone say they wanted to just show up and get a good spot late (I didn't, and I said we didn't even need an accommodation at this time). Please show me where someone has said that. Otherwise, it's just the same old story of someone thinking that someone else is trying to scam the system, and that's what you're implying.