Disgruntled members: What are the DVC-specific issues?

[BeachClub2014]

This is really evident on FB groups by the members themselves. It can get downright nasty, especially if a white card member gets a dining discount from a cast member and posts about it.

That's just downright rude, and also why I avoid FB as much as possible.

Never really understood why one person would get upset with the good fortune of another person. Good for them, I say! If a blue card member wants to be "mad" at anyone in this scenario, it should be themselves for a lack of grace.

 

[DeeBee3]

We still love our DVC, but we bought in very beginning of 2019. We took 1 trip before Covid shut everything down. In fact, we had an Easter 2020 trip planned but it was cancelled. Since then we have gone twice.

The website is an issue. I know there are multiple factors they need to take into account and booking is probably more complex than say just making a purchase on a retail site, but it's crazy how often I get 7 Dwarfs. This is just to look at availability. I've hit issues with other items as well. They definitely could upgrade and invest in IT.

Wait times are most definitely longer post-covid. When I do get through I have been offered a callback if it is something another department has to solve. No one has time to wait 2 hours or more on the phone.

I would appreciate the opportunity to purchase APs as we have 2 trips planned this year. Tickets are insanely expensive. We just spent $1200 for 4 people just doing 2 park days. We are blessed to be able to do that.

Despite all the above, the joy we all get when we are there is amazing. The kids love it. The parents love it. We are happy. It is indeed "magical."

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Adding to this list is Disney's recent attempt to alter the point charts to charge a "lockoff premium". (Basically, booking a Studio and one-bedroom separately would cost more than booking a two-bedroom). Since most lockoffs tend to be rented as two different rooms, this would have resulted in more points available to Disney to rent out as cash rooms.

Members called them on it and Disney backed down, but it was a sleezy move on Disney's part.

We caught them on this. What else is Disney doing that we haven't called them out on?

There has been a lock-off premium since the dawn of time and it's entirely legitimate.

 

[robinb]

This is really evident on FB groups by the members themselves. It can get downright nasty, especially if a white card member gets a dining discount from a cast member and posts about it. What many blue card members don't take until consideration is they may have bought 25 points at $50 pp at $1250 to get their blue card less than 10 years ago. Now the minimum buy in is about $30000. Some blue card members think they are entitled and better but Disney frequently changed what they decided qualified you for a blue card, that really does not have great perks right now anyway, but preyed on FOMO, mostly in my opinion, but it works.

It's not just FB. Just look here to the DIS when Disney changed the AP structure and sold APs for a limited time. Some white card members posted that they *gasp* bought discounted APs. There were many remarks about how unfair and terrible it was that they be allowed to buy what should only be allowed to blue card members. I also agree with you on the FOMO aspect of people convincing themselves that the perks are worth it.

 

[Nabas]

There has been a lock-off premium since the dawn of time and it's entirely legitimate.

And yet Disney reversed point chart increases for both 2020 and 2022 when DVC members caught them trying to inflate points:

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/pol...vc-reverses-course-on-2020-point-reallocation

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/pol...-dvc-points-charts-revised-for-september-2022

By Florida law, the total number of points is supposed to remain fixed. Yet Disney twice tried to skirt the law (and twice was caught by DVC members) by playing games with the lock-off premium.

I'll repeat what I wrote earlier. This was a sleezy move on Disney's part and is an example of how a once member-friendly Disney has changed.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And yet Disney reversed point chart increases for both 2020 and 2022 when DVC members caught them trying to inflate points:

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/pol...vc-reverses-course-on-2020-point-reallocation

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/pol...-dvc-points-charts-revised-for-september-2022

By Florida law, the total number of points is supposed to remain fixed. Yet Disney twice tried to (and twice was caught by DVC members) trying to skirt the lay by playing games with the lock-off premium.

I'll repeat what I wrote earlier. This was a sleezy move on Disney's part and is an example of how a once member-friendly Disney has changed.

The points allocation issue had to do with total points cost relative to the base year. The fact that Studio + 1BR costs more than a 2BR is not a problem.

 

[Nabas]

The points allocation issue had to do with total points cost relative to the base year. The fact that Studio + 1BR costs more than a 2BR is not a problem.

Quoting from the first DVCNews article:

Consider the rates below for a weekday stay at Disney's Beach Club Villas during Adventure Season:​

​

Villa​	2019 ​	2020 (orig) ​
Deluxe Studio​	15​	16​
One Bedroom​	27​	28​
Two Bedroom​	37​	37​
Lockoff Premium​	5​	7​

​

In 2019, the 15 and 27 points required to book the Studio + One Bedroom separately were 5 more than the Two Bedroom cost for the exact same room. Per the original 2020 charts, that premium had grown to 7 points per night.​

This very much was Disney trying to squeeze points out of DVC members by increasing the lockoff premium.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Quoting from the first DVCNews article:

Consider the rates below for a weekday stay at Disney's Beach Club Villas during Adventure Season:​

​

Villa​	2019 ​	2020 (orig) ​
Deluxe Studio​	15​	16​
One Bedroom​	27​	28​
Two Bedroom​	37​	37​
Lockoff Premium​	5​	7​

​

In 2019, the 15 and 27 points required to book the Studio + One Bedroom separately were 5 more than the Two Bedroom cost for the exact same room. Per the original 2020 charts, that premium had grown to 7 points per night.​

This very much was Disney trying to squeeze points out of DVC members by increasing the lockoff premium.

Okay but that's not what you said in the original post I quoted. I don't doubt that they increased the lock-off premium. Your original post seemed to indicate that the lock-off premium itself was a problem on its face.

 

[Nabas]

Okay but that's not what you said in the original post I quoted. I don't doubt that they increased the lock-off premium. Your original post seemed to indicate that the lock-off premium itself was a problem on its face.

Thanks, I have changed 2 words in my original post to make this clearer.

 

[Leight19]

Okay but that's not what you said in the original post I quoted. I don't doubt that they increased the lock-off premium. Your original post seemed to indicate that the lock-off premium itself was a problem on its face.

The issue I have with lock off premium in general is when it’s combined with point charts that create such disparity in demand of studio and 1br. It created incentive for Disney to intentionally unbalance demand so studios block out forcing 2br lock off to go very quickly creating extra points for Disney.

Im not overtly against this since this is all spelled out in contracts up front but the 1br vs studio demand has been issue for years and they still build new resorts with the same strategy and do nothing to fix existing resorts (though I’m not sure there’s much they legally can do to fix besides lowering the lock off premium which isn’t reasonable the other direction).

The increased lock of premium imo was blatantly illegal and is a complete nonstarter in my opinion to give any thought it was done for any reason but greed for DVC management and dereliction of their fiduciary duties.

 

[Sandisw]

Of course. They did not have to create two classes of members to do it. The vast majority of points they sell are for the new resorts and those resorts are only available through them. It was unnecessary to tell people who buy resale at older resorts that they are not full-fledged members of the “club”.

They could have gone a different route but they didn’t.

And they did grandfather everyone in so at least those who still own points no matter how bought are eligible for it all.

The rules now certainly make it a different product for certain things but at least those buying now know the new rules

You buy direct and you get X and if you buy resale you get Y.

Now things like the website and some of the issues getting rooms late are glitches that need to be worked on, but things related to APs or perks are not directly in DVDs control.

 

[Jelly563]

There are a few things that bother me. The biggest has to be Magical Express. Current climate is "going green" now, everyone has to rent a car or take an Uber instead of being on the express.

Next up would be the annual passes. I got a lot of kids and they bring friends. Not having my crew paid for is brutal.

Then there is the point shaving. I know they say its a balance but the balance has NEVER fell in my favor. I never used to see Grand Villas over1000 points for a week but it is totally the norm now. Heck, even the new VGF studio ran me 30 pts a night.

Finally is the BLT Top of World lounge. Plenty of room to spread out, social distance or limit an amount of people. There is no real reason to have it closed. Makes me think it has something to do with the economy, craziness and pandemic that they dont want any suicide headlines. Sounds bad but it happens.

 

[Boopuff]

I've never had any issue with the website. My DH is a computer guy and we have mega-mega internet speed. I wonder if that has something to do with people having issues getting on the website. Honestly, I don't get the blue/white argument. Either you buy blue and know what you're getting, or buy white, and know you're not getting anything. But I don't agree with people complaining after the fact, that they can't get X because of blue/white. You know what you have and accept it. Oh and can we stop about the phone thing!!! 85% of Americans own a smart phone. If you have one and can't figure it out...ask a teenager!

 

[zavandor]

This isn't DVC directly, but since someone mentioned a DVC trip means relaxing and getting up at 7 to do genie doesn't.

Does anyone know why disney didn't set up genie just as paid FP. You buy it the week, at 60 days you pick out what rides. And then maybe at 7 am day of, you could pick one more.

For myself , I'd be more incline to buy it knowing I had rides in the bag. Now I'd never buy it, cause I'd have a heart attack trying find stuff at 7 am.

I'm going to wildly guess, no insider knowledge.
Some people didn't like the need of planning their day 60 days in advance and last minute planned (or oblivious guests who didn't even know what a FP was) were at great disadvantage because they arrived at the park and any good FP was already gone.
Also, they had a model that was well received in MaxPass at Disneyland, upon which G+ is clearly inspired.
Unfortunately there are problems, one structural, the other cultural.
The structural one is that only MK is comparable to DL or even DCA, the other parks have too few rides to make a paid FP a worthy purchase.
The cultural problem is that WDW management like to complicate things as much as possible. Any single change made to the MaxPass model makes it worst:
- 7am start before entering the park
- no modify button, you have to cancel first with no guarantee to get anything else
- no "hold" on a reservation (so you may be happy to book a LL for 9am, to then get a confirmation for 5pm because someone else took it)
- (comparing with FP+) no choice of a later time, you have to get the first available time or wait

 

[vacay77]

My family and I don’t regret our DVC purchase. Yes, Disney has made decisions that I’m not happy with, but overall, we still enjoy our visits. My 2 biggest gripes: {1} the long wait times to speak to someone on the phone and {2} I really wish Disneyland would bring back early entry for guests staying at Disney hotels. Right now, there really isn‘t much of a benefit for those staying at Disneyland hotels. But as I indicated, I still don’t regret it. It allows me to bring my extended family on trips with us when we probably wouldn’t be able to do it otherwise. That and the location of the Grand Californian. It’s hard to stay anywhere else now.

 

[sethschroeder]

What many blue card members don't take until consideration

Eh what many don't take in to consideration is DVC is only going to sink so much money in to the marketing programs. More than likely the larger uptake in people using discounts means a lesser likelihood that Disney will allow DVC to renew the benefit in a years time (especially under current Disney management) since in the end Disney only gives the discount to drive New Direct contracts and if that additional profit doesn't outweigh cost then they will look to cut or curtail the discount.

As an example Disney allows the Visa card to get so many discounts because it drives CC spend through a card where that money might be spent on a different CC instead. Disney also locks in your money even further because the rewards are Disney credit not actual cash.

So it doesn't matter what the buy in is the rules are the rules. If Disney starts ignoring rules regarding whitecard members, they start ignoring rules regarding point expiration, regarding booking requirements, regarding borrowing/banking, regarding point charts.

The system is controlled by legal contracts and disclosures and need to controlled by such.

 

[sethschroeder]

Never really understood why one person would get upset with the good fortune of another person.

Its not "good fortune" its incorrect application of program rules which can long term impact benefits for those who do qualify and additionally give DVC/Disney for ammo for their "mistakes" which negatively impact various areas of membership.

What irritates me is when people on here act as if the rules not being followed is okay. This was never clearer the past couple years when people wanted all sorts of special treatment regarding point expiration. You need to realize what the rules are and that the rules not being followed can have a negative impact on others.

Now people shouldnt be rude but it should be called out when rules are broken or ignored.

This is all very different as well compared to people finding loopholes in Disney policy in general. I can care less about that since it doesn't impact me, my money sunk in to DVC, or my future DVC stay/benefits/contract value.

 

[BeachClub2014]

What irritates me is when people on here act as if the rules not being followed is okay. This was never clearer the past couple years when people wanted all sorts of special treatment regarding point expiration. You need to realize what the rules are and that the rules not being followed can have a negative impact on others.

Now people shouldnt be rude but it should be called out when rules are broken or ignored.

This is all very different as well compared to people finding loopholes in Disney policy in general. I can care less about that since it doesn't impact me, my money sunk in to DVC, or my future DVC stay/benefits/contract value.

So for context, I was commenting on people reacting rudely on FB over a dining discount.

I also wasn't endorsing rule-breaking in general, just suggesting that perhaps more civility in our world would go a long way.

 

[nlenguyen]

The biggest limitation that i know had problem been said already for us would be the limitation of not using resale points at the newer resort collection. It is hard to figure out sometimes when you are planning out a trip and then forget about that.

 

[kdm31091]

I would never be rude to someone with a white card who got a discount, but I can understand the frustration on a blue card member's part. Disney convinces people to pay much more for direct, partially because of "exclusive" discounts. If the discounts aren't exclusive, I can see being a little angry. That being said, your anger should be directed at Disney moreso than the white card member.