Discuss what Disney is doing wrong part II

[Mouseaholic!!!]

This is the what I've been trying to put my finger on...with respect to this thread and the death-grip-on-lunacy that it's predecessor thread was maintained with....

There's more than a few posts in this thread and the last one, that are filled with a near vitriolic WDW hate....I keep reading and saying to myself "if this person hates WDW so much, what the hell is the person doing on these boards?"

What people don't seem to get is that it's a business. If disney's really doing it wrong....this economy will flush it out.....have faith in that. There isn't a business that is insulated from this!


There are people here that feel Disney's doing it right...or at the very least, feel they're doing it better than others. I, for one, scratch my heads at some of the posts here.

The alternative is what? Six Flags? Prices are up there as well...attendants there are grumpy and nasty. The bathrooms smell like the bronx zoo. Universal? Well, you complain to the wrong people over there and you might find you and your family banned for a year!


I understand the luster has worn a little for some....and ALOT for others. But at the end of the day, a great deal of Disney fans still feel there's some magic there.....

I've said it before....there are MILLIONS of alternatives.....a country full of wonderful national parks, fascinating history, interesting museums (what boy will not enjoy the air and space museum or a full size T-rex)....recreation....it's all around us.

Tell me that kids don't get it.....I disagree.

Last year DH and I decided to visit Gettysburg (FABULOUS renovated visitors center - I strongly recommend a visit). We choose a guided tour - the guide brought the place to life for us.

We are both history fans and my favorite Civil War General was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain - we decided to go back later and visit Little Round Top....piviitol to the battle.

We found a small, hand-made memorial....pine branches bound in a ribbon with a school name. When we returned home I called the school in Maine. Each year their 5th grade class studies American History and they come to Gettysburg (one of the teachers is a history reinactor). Anyway, they walk Picketts Charge (no small stroll across the grass) and they find each Maine momument AND all of the 205 Maine Men who fell in the battle and were buried in the cemetary. They place one of these small memorials on each of the spots.

Now.....tell me kids DON'T get it!

Take them to see Old Faithful, or the Grand Canyon....reach out and touch Endeavor (space shuttle at the Air and Space Museum near Dulles)....or a stealth fighter, Anola Gay or a Concord.

Tell your children about the poet who was captured and forced to watch the Battle of Baltimore from the deck of a British Man O War as it fired on Ft. McHenry. Washington had just fallen to the British and the White House was burned to the ground.....now, during that long night of battle, this young poet searched for the flag...the beautiful American Flag at Ft. McHenry ---- was is still flying proudly. Yes, it was and with this young poet's rush of emotion he wrote the lyrics to the Star Spangled Banner......"what so proudly we hail, at the twilight's last gleaming".

You can take your children to the Museum of American History where the remenents of this beautiful flag are now, once again, on display for all of us to see. The actual flag that inspired that poet so many years ago.


There is soooo much to do....Williamsburg, whale watching off Acadia National Park in Maine, Skyline Drive in Virginia, Glacier National Park, country music in Nashville, the complete German U-Boat in Chicago.....sailing the Chesapeake Bay.......ok, ok.....I'll stop.


Don't even THINK of telling there are no other choices to a disney vacation.......I'll send you a list that will take 50 years to complete.


...oops the passion for travel popped out again.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I've said it before....there are MILLIONS of alternatives.....a country full of wonderful national parks, fascinating history, interesting museums (what boy will not enjoy the air and space museum or a full size T-rex)....recreation....it's all around us.

Tell me that kids don't get it.....I disagree.

Last year DH and I decided to visit Gettysburg (FABULOUS renovated visitors center - I strongly recommend a visit). We choose a guided tour - the guide brought the place to life for us.

We are both history fans and my favorite Civil War General was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain - we decided to go back later and visit Little Round Top....piviitol to the battle.

We found a small, hand-made memorial....pine branches bound in a ribbon with a school name. When we returned home I called the school in Maine. Each year their 5th grade class studies American History and they come to Gettysburg (one of the teachers is a history reinactor). Anyway, they walk Picketts Charge (no small stroll across the grass) and they find each Maine momument AND all of the 205 Maine Men who fell in the battle and were buried in the cemetary. They place one of these small memorials on each of the spots.

Now.....tell me kids DON'T get it!

Take them to see Old Faithful, or the Grand Canyon....reach out and touch Endeavor (space shuttle at the Air and Space Museum near Dulles)....or a stealth fighter, Anola Gay or a Concord.

Tell your children about the poet who was captured and forced to watch the Battle of Baltimore from the deck of a British Man O War as it fired on Ft. McHenry. Washington had just fallen to the British and the White House was burned to the ground.....now, during that long night of battle, this young poet searched for the flag...the beautiful American Flag at Ft. McHenry ---- was is still flying proudly. Yes, it was and with this young poet's rush of emotion he wrote the lyrics to the Star Spangled Banner......"what so proudly we hail, at the twilight's last gleaming".

You can take your children to the Museum of American History where the remenents of this beautiful flag are now, once again, on display for all of us to see. The actual flag that inspired that poet so many years ago.


There is soooo much to do....Williamsburg, whale watching off Acadia National Park in Maine, Skyline Drive in Virginia, Glacier National Park, country music in Nashville, the complete German U-Boat in Chicago.....sailing the Chesapeake Bay.......ok, ok.....I'll stop.


Don't even THINK of telling there are no other choices to a disney vacation.......I'll send you a list that will take 50 years to complete.


...oops the passion for travel popped out again.

I love this. We love to travel, also. My kids loved Yosemite as much as the Magic Kingdom. It is all good!

 

[maxiesmom]

Not so sure on this. It doesn't close before 9pm any day on our upcoming trip. In fact, 4 of those days, it closes at 10pm or midnight (although that's EMH in the case of the midnight). If they can stay open til midnight on special party nights, there's no need to close at 7 other nights.

I would guess they close early because of the additional amount of money it costs to run the Magic Kingdom after 7pm, without an additonal charge. Think of how many CMs are in the parks, and how much Disney pays in utilites during that time. Someone must have done a cost analysis and decided it simply wasn't cost effective to stay open later without charging the guests for that time.

I agree as a guest it does stink. For my trip in October there are Mnsshps 3 out of our 4 nights.Maybe I would even for over the approximately $200 it would cost for 4 of us to go, if we hadn't already been to the party 3 times. But this year we will simply take that time to enjoy the resort. If it is not cost effective for Disney to stay open any later, I can't blame them for closing at 7pm.

 

[WDSearcher]

Don't even THINK of telling there are no other choices to a disney vacation.......I'll send you a list that will take 50 years to complete. ...oops the passion for travel popped out again.

I think you may have missed the point.

I don't think the PP was in any way saying that "there are no other choices to a disney vacation." I think their point was, that if you want to do an amusment park / theme park vacation, that your choices are pretty limited if you take Disney out of the mix. You can go on and on about wonderful national parks and cities with histories, countries around the world, rugged pioneer vacations, following literary footsteps or spending your time at a folk life festival or exploring the dynasties of China, but if you're looking for the specific enjoyment of a theme or amusement park vacation, then you have limited quality choices if you take Disney off the table.

No one is trying to say that Disney is the end-all, be-all. But no one is saying that a Disney vacation is comparable to visiting Gettysburg either. It's apples & oranges.

 

[BayouMickey]

I've said it before....there are MILLIONS of alternatives.....a country full of wonderful national parks, fascinating history, interesting museums (what boy will not enjoy the air and space museum or a full size T-rex)....recreation....it's all around us.


You can take your children to the Museum of American History where the remenents of this beautiful flag are now, once again, on display for all of us to see. The actual flag that inspired that poet so many years ago.

We lived in VA and went to the Smiths twice, and twice was too many for my kids..

There is soooo much to do....Williamsburg

lol we rather go to our local dinky ren faire than go back to Williamsburg

Skyline Drive in Virginia

you must have a) VERY patient kids or b) no kids, because when we drove the skyline drive, the kids kept asking "are we there yet?" and we had to keep telling them there is no there. The whining started and It's like pulling teeth. Kids don't want to look and mountain skylines and trees..

 

[nicole2003]

I've said it before....there are MILLIONS of alternatives.....a country full of wonderful national parks, fascinating history, interesting museums (what boy will not enjoy the air and space museum or a full size T-rex)....recreation....it's all around us.

Tell me that kids don't get it.....I disagree.

Last year DH and I decided to visit Gettysburg (FABULOUS renovated visitors center - I strongly recommend a visit). We choose a guided tour - the guide brought the place to life for us.

We are both history fans and my favorite Civil War General was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain - we decided to go back later and visit Little Round Top....piviitol to the battle.

We found a small, hand-made memorial....pine branches bound in a ribbon with a school name. When we returned home I called the school in Maine. Each year their 5th grade class studies American History and they come to Gettysburg (one of the teachers is a history reinactor). Anyway, they walk Picketts Charge (no small stroll across the grass) and they find each Maine momument AND all of the 205 Maine Men who fell in the battle and were buried in the cemetary. They place one of these small memorials on each of the spots.

Now.....tell me kids DON'T get it!

Take them to see Old Faithful, or the Grand Canyon....reach out and touch Endeavor (space shuttle at the Air and Space Museum near Dulles)....or a stealth fighter, Anola Gay or a Concord.

Tell your children about the poet who was captured and forced to watch the Battle of Baltimore from the deck of a British Man O War as it fired on Ft. McHenry. Washington had just fallen to the British and the White House was burned to the ground.....now, during that long night of battle, this young poet searched for the flag...the beautiful American Flag at Ft. McHenry ---- was is still flying proudly. Yes, it was and with this young poet's rush of emotion he wrote the lyrics to the Star Spangled Banner......"what so proudly we hail, at the twilight's last gleaming".

You can take your children to the Museum of American History where the remenents of this beautiful flag are now, once again, on display for all of us to see. The actual flag that inspired that poet so many years ago.


There is soooo much to do....Williamsburg, whale watching off Acadia National Park in Maine, Skyline Drive in Virginia, Glacier National Park, country music in Nashville, the complete German U-Boat in Chicago.....sailing the Chesapeake Bay.......ok, ok.....I'll stop.


Don't even THINK of telling there are no other choices to a disney vacation.......I'll send you a list that will take 50 years to complete.


...oops the passion for travel popped out again.

Your post was wonderful, thank you!

 

[Colleen27]

you must have a) VERY patient kids or b) no kids, because when we drove the skyline drive, the kids kept asking "are we there yet?" and we had to keep telling them there is no there. The whining started and It's like pulling teeth. Kids don't want to look and mountain skylines and trees..

I would be very, very sad to have children who didn't appreciate mountains and skylines and trees, as you put it. When I was a kid, I spent a month of every summer in VA, and Skyline Drive was one of my favorite places to visit. My own kids have only been once but they loved it too, and they love our trips up north where there's just trees and a lake (not even mountains or skylines to speak of).

Disney is a wonderful experience, but there are so many other wonderful experiences in the world. I'm sad for children who need that sort of go-go-go, real-life TV type stimulation to enjoy a destination, because they're missing out on some of the most amazing things this world has to offer.

 

[BayouMickey]

I would be very, very sad to have children who didn't appreciate mountains and skylines and trees, as you put it. When I was a kid, I spent a month of every summer in VA, and Skyline Drive was one of my favorite places to visit. My own kids have only been once but they loved it too, and they love our trips up north where there's just trees and a lake (not even mountains or skylines to speak of).

Disney is a wonderful experience, but there are so many other wonderful experiences in the world. I'm sad for children who need that sort of go-go-go, real-life TV type stimulation to enjoy a destination, because they're missing out on some of the most amazing things this world has to offer.

Don't feel sad for my kids, they live in a swamp with trees and water everyday.. They lived ON a mountain in VA. These are/were everyday sights for them, why would they want to sit in a car and see the same thing in there back yard for miles?

 

[rt2dz]

I would be very, very sad to have children who didn't appreciate mountains and skylines and trees, as you put it. When I was a kid, I spent a month of every summer in VA, and Skyline Drive was one of my favorite places to visit. My own kids have only been once but they loved it too, and they love our trips up north where there's just trees and a lake (not even mountains or skylines to speak of).

Disney is a wonderful experience, but there are so many other wonderful experiences in the world. I'm sad for children who need that sort of go-go-go, real-life TV type stimulation to enjoy a destination, because they're missing out on some of the most amazing things this world has to offer.

A lot of it depends on the age of kids too. What a child enjoys at 2 isn't what they enjoy at 9, which is still different than what they enjoy at 16.

I'm currently pregnant with baby #4. This one came as quite the surprise. The age difference between this baby and DS#1 is 9 years. DH and I talked about how vacations are going to need to alternate between who the trip is for. Thankfully, we take two vacations a year and can do that. My mother used to complain that vacations were difficult. The age difference between my oldest sister and my brother are 15 years--we all have the same two parents; we're just all spread out in age.

 

[TDC Nala]

reach out and touch Endeavor (space shuttle at the Air and Space Museum near Dulles)

The shuttle at the Dulles museum is the Enterprise (Star Trek fans love that)

I know I'm still going to WDW but not as much as I used to before PI closed. Next year I'll go there even less. That's entirely because of the absence of PI but I am sure not a lot of people went to WDW just to go to PI.

Disney won't miss me though, because I'm paying them what seems like a bazillion dollars for a cruise. And I have been enjoying spending more time at Disneyland.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Well I recently quit smoking, so smoking areas don't relate to me anymore, but I don't think it's a good idea to get RID of the areas, maybe move them but not get rid of. I understand the "right to breathe clean air" thing, honestly I do. but smokers have just as much as right to live their lives too.

I agree. I am a former smoker (15 years) but I will sit in the smoking areas when waiting for my family. Especially the one by star Tours. It amazes me how many people come, sit down and give the "stinkeye" to the smokers. Really, that is where I have met some of the nicest people! The smokers who follow the rules are good eggs!

 

[rgf207]

This thread is already 13 pages long bu I'll chime in.

We had been going yearly to WDW since 2002 and love it. I'm a Disney Fanatic and the Wife is joining in. We just bought DVC last year and when we went on our first DVC stay this year. We were so disappointed in Disney. We noticed that a lot of attraction features were broken and not being fixed. We noticed the same merchandise everywhere. I've also noticed the quality of the merchandise deteriorating over the years. Honestly I can't buy anthing from Disney that does not break within a few months and I don't know why.

The cutbacks on menu items is noticeable but really didn't bother us because we liked the food although I remember that CS locations used to have variety and now they all seem the same.

Because we were disappointed, we decided that we will not return every year anymore. We have 2 trips planned that we will keep but after 2010, we will make Disney an every 2 or 3 year trip. I feel very sad about that. Almost as if a little piece of me has left. I know it may seem stupid but that's how I feel.

In years before it seemed like Disney was out to please the guest. We all know that Disney is a business and there to make money but it seemed like they hid it more. Now it seems like Disney's primary goal is to make money and if they can please a guest, so be it, but it doesn't seem like the priority.

 

[BayouMickey]

I've been thinking,(run for the hills!)
Maybe some are seeing more the negative of WDW than the good, because Disney has spoiled peole into a certain expectation than you would other places. And now during this rough time, people are thinking it's not up to that expectation?
I still love WDW as much as I did my first time back in 76 when I was just petite Bayou Mickey. But I think the difference with me is the way I was brought up. I was always brought up thinking "don't have too high of expectations and you won't be disappointed". And that's how I do my trips. I don't set any expectations other that I expect to be in WDW spending time with my family. And I can truthfully say I've never been disappointed. yes sometimes things don't go as planned but hey it's just a pothole in a long highway.

 

[Lupin]

Like many others on this board, my biggest complaint about Disney vacations is the Dining Plan and it's flooding effect on reservations. I never use the Dining Plan, though I almost always eat on Disney property. I'm going back to Disney for the first time in 2 years at the end of September. Even though I'm only traveling with my wife, we couldn't get reservations for any time at any of our favorite places (Ohana's, Mama Melrose, etc) for our entire trip. Granted, we didn't attempt to make reservations until a week after the 90-day window opened (we had no clue that reservations were so difficult to obtain now), but it still seems absurd that I can't get ANYTHING for 2 people - not even 9:30 at night - for an entire week that is 2.5 months away.

You used to be able to just talk to the concierge at the hotel and make reservations for something later in the evening, but that doesn't seem possible anymore with the enormous increase of people on the Dining Plan. I'm really hoping that we can just walk-in to some of the restaurants - otherwise we might have to start eating off property.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

I think you may have missed the point.

I don't think the PP was in any way saying that "there are no other choices to a disney vacation." I think their point was, that if you want to do an amusment park / theme park vacation, that your choices are pretty limited if you take Disney out of the mix. You can go on and on about wonderful national parks and cities with histories, countries around the world, rugged pioneer vacations, following literary footsteps or spending your time at a folk life festival or exploring the dynasties of China, but if you're looking for the specific enjoyment of a theme or amusement park vacation, then you have limited quality choices if you take Disney off the table.

No one is trying to say that Disney is the end-all, be-all. But no one is saying that a Disney vacation is comparable to visiting Gettysburg either. It's apples & oranges.

No, I didn't miss your point....I was taking is one step beyond.

All I'm saying is why on earth would we limit ourselves to theme parks. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Wildie and with castmember rates, DH and consider ourselves lucky to visit once or twice a year.

Now, however, we are doing so many other things which are, honestly, far more interesting and so GREAT for children.

We love the Wildie - yes we do.....but why not stay in the National Park Lodge that INSPIRED the Wildie!

....just thinking outside the box and beyond a theme park vacation.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

I've been thinking,(run for the hills!)
Maybe some are seeing more the negative of WDW than the good, because Disney has spoiled peole into a certain expectation than you would other places. And now during this rough time, people are thinking it's not up to that expectation?
I still love WDW as much as I did my first time back in 76 when I was just petite Bayou Mickey. But I think the difference with me is the way I was brought up. I was always brought up thinking "don't have too high of expectations and you won't be disappointed". And that's how I do my trips. I don't set any expectations other that I expect to be in WDW spending time with my family. And I can truthfully say I've never been disappointed. yes sometimes things don't go as planned but hey it's just a pothole in a long highway.

DH works for the mouse so we see it a little differently perhaps than those who do not.

The bottom line for us, however, is....we don't have high expectations at all. All we ask is for Disney to live up to the standards they once set for themselves.....all but forgotten now. You know, little things like....clean bathrooms as an example.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

We lived in VA and went to the Smiths twice, and twice was too many for my kids..




lol we rather go to our local dinky ren faire than go back to Williamsburg


you must have a) VERY patient kids or b) no kids, because when we drove the skyline drive, the kids kept asking "are we there yet?" and we had to keep telling them there is no there. The whining started and It's like pulling teeth. Kids don't want to look and mountain skylines and trees..

I do what my parents did for me....theater, ballet, museums, yes - beautiful drives along skyline drive----you should have heard the squealing when we saw deer!!! Boating adventures, long drives to and from Luray Caverns or a drive down to see where Misty lives along the Virginia shore. I didn't need a DVD in the car to keep me busy --- we talked about the trees and farms we passed.

It's all in the presentation.

How on earth could you not enjoy Williamsburg's afternoon events with all the reactors....we stormed the Capital Building and replaced the British Flag with the American Flag.....and the next day we were recruited by General George Washington to fight at Yorktown....marched on the battlefield with the fife and drum corps....cannons firing. It was GREAT....and it was HISTORY. We visited the church were the greatest names in our colonial history gathered....then we were off to Monticello to visit the home of Thomas Jefferson.

Have you been to the air and space museum near Dulles....it's FILLED with children having a great time exploring. No, we don't leave them there for 10hours...but there is plenty to keep them thrilled.

How about a few Dino's for the boys at the Museum of Natural History.

Of course you are allowed to go back to Disney as often as you want...free country an such. However, everywhere we go there are children....and you know what.....most of them are having a GREAT time and building memories like I did.....and in time, they will share with their children.

All I'm saying is there is lots of life beyond Disney parks....BIG life - fascinating stuff around every corner .... and we cannot wait to explore it all.

We can read about all of these wonderful places...but oh my....it's soooooo much better and personal to actually visit.

Tell me you can stand at the foot of Mt. McKinley, 20.320 feet tall - highest mountain on the North American continent....and not be overwhelmed with God's masterpiece?

 

[Cinderumbrella]

Do you think maybe we see the negative because most of us have gone so many times?? Think about it, there is something magical about your first trip (or 3 ) I bet I wouldn't have noticed half the stuff I see now back then. Sure things have changed, and not always for the better, but when you go and TRY to look for the positive things, you would be surprised how much positive there still is...

 

[BayouMickey]

I do what my parents did for me....theater, ballet, museums, yes - beautiful drives along skyline drive----you should have heard the squealing when we saw deer!!! Boating adventures, long drives to and from Luray Caverns or a drive down to see where Misty lives along the Virginia shore. I didn't need a DVD in the car to keep me busy --- we talked about the trees and farms we passed.

It's all in the presentation.

How on earth could you not enjoy Williamsburg's afternoon events with all the reactors....we stormed the Capital Building and replaced the British Flag with the American Flag.....and the next day we were recruited by General George Washington to fight at Yorktown....marched on the battlefield with the fife and drum corps....cannons firing. It was GREAT....and it was HISTORY. We visited the church were the greatest names in our colonial history gathered....then we were off to Monticello to visit the home of Thomas Jefferson.

Have you been to the air and space museum near Dulles....it's FILLED with children having a great time exploring. No, we don't leave them there for 10hours...but there is plenty to keep them thrilled.

How about a few Dino's for the boys at the Museum of Natural History.

Of course you are allowed to go back to Disney as often as you want...free country an such. However, everywhere we go there are children....and you know what.....most of them are having a GREAT time and building memories like I did.....and in time, they will share with their children.

All I'm saying is there is lots of life beyond Disney parks....BIG life - fascinating stuff around every corner .... and we cannot wait to explore it all.

We can read about all of these wonderful places...but oh my....it's soooooo much better and personal to actually visit.

Tell me you can stand at the foot of Mt. McKinley, 20.320 feet tall - highest mountain on the North American continent....and not be overwhelmed with God's masterpiece?

See, that's the thing, it was different when WE were growing up. Times were simpler.
We used to go to the Smokies every year when I was a kid, and I enjoyed that kind of thing (rafting, climbing trails etc.)

Kids today can't be bothered with it. Give them the fast rush and go!
I tried, you don't know how hard I try to get these kids to do things we did when we were kids, even the simpler things like (searching for 4 leaf clovers, catching mosquito hawks (dragon flies), playing king of the hill), just can't get them interested.
So when we attempt these type of outings, even though me and DW might enjoy it, we don't know because the kids aren't interested and throw fits.
As my 17 yo told me a few years back. "I go to school 9 months out the year and get a history lesson, I don't want it on my vacation" That's the mentallity of a teen and younger.

 

[dd50]

My negative is that it is hard to find the smoking sections. Seems they aren't marked anywhere except for MK. You have to look for the ash tray on top of the garbage cans. Don't mind smoking there but would like to find them easier as they don't seem to be (not all) where they are marked on the map.