Discipline at school issue w/toddler - (UPDATE PG 2)

[Hillbeans]

I am hoping someone out there can give me some guidance on this very important issue. My DH is furious and i'm sick to my stomach. I really don't know how i'm going to make it through to Monday AM having this hang over my shoulder.

My son is 3 and he goes to daycare/school. He goes 3 days a week. He's a very happy child, sort of on the shy side, but he's generally a good kid and we rarely have anything to complain about.

Today, through a series of 3-year-old cryptic language, it came to my Husband's attention that he was yelled at in front of his class by his teacher and told to go to "Miss _____'s_" office, who is the director. Since he's not 100% capable of telling me what or when this happened, I can only deduct that it probably happened on Thursday. After about the 10th time I heard him say it tonight and well up into tears I became furious. Of course it being a friday night, I can't contact the teacher or director to get the story. I also know that DS doesn't lie, in fact, I don't think he's quite capable of understanding what that is, however it is a long shot possiblilty that another child was yelled at in front of him and he saw it. I don't think this is the case though because he told us it was him.

My DH is so enraged that we're only finding out about this today through a series of partial sentences from a 3 year old. In addition, I can't even believe this is the way things are handled at this daycare, that kids are screamed at. I feel we should have been told either by a phone call or a note what happened, especially if a normally shy child acts in such a way to be sent out of the classroon and humiliated in front of his friends.

Please, please give me advice on what to do. Do you feel we should have been called? My DH says that if she did in fact do this, we're yanking him out of this class so fast their heads will spin. Is there anything they can say to me to make me feel that how this was handled was correct? I've had a fairly good run with my DS at this place, and it was only recently that i've had my first real incident over a medicine/sickness and Lunch eating issue. I also feel that certain things don't deserve a second chance.

Am I being harsh? Should I write a note detailing this or just leave a note for her to call ASAP (she gets in about an hour after I drop my DS off with the morning aide). Please please give me some advice. I'm sick to my stomach and can't even bear to think about Monday. Thanks in advance for listening.

 

[Melora]

My best advice is seriously not worry about it until you can talk to someone and find out exactly what happened on Monday.

It may well be true then you can deal with it then, but from so many experiences like this happeing to me, I always seem to blow things out of proportion and find out it isn't nearly as bad I first thought it was.

By tomorrow morning you should feel a little bit better. I know its hard but try not to worry.

 

[Hillbeans]

Thanks for the quick response. My only lingering doubt is that I know the director, and she's a no-nonsense type who i've heard be rather tough with the staff and a parent. She definitely doesn't take anything without making it sound like it was something someone else did wrong.

 

[we are here]

I would start looking for another place as soon as possible. We went through a thing like that but we did not really "put 2 and 2 together" until much later.

Our dd had a private sitter until she was just a month away from being 3 and then we placed her in a church daycare thinking it had to be the very best place for her. After a while she did not want me to leave her in the mornings and it usually took me about 10-15 minutes to pry myself away from her. Other days the teacher would call me at work because dd had had a temper tantrum and she had been sent to "the office". Still things just did not click with us. All we knew was she did not act this way at home but we really just chalked it up to not being used to having to share and not being around other kids.

Later on she was biting her fingernails. This kind of bothered me because I never thought someone so young had that habit. Then after January that year she was moved to another room to be with kids more her age and the change in her was like night and day. It was such a drastic change in her behavior we then realized that it must have been the teacher. The nail biting stopped also.I ran into a teenager that used to work there and she told me that the teacher used to yell at my dd all the time. We did not know about this until the beginning of summer (I had summers off and did not have her in daycare) but the next school year we found a different daycare and she really blossomed there.

There might not be anything going on so I would get to the bottom of it first but look for some other places also. Try to find out from some of the other employees (if you can get them to the side) and see what they think.

 

[poohandwendy]

I would definitely wait and reserve judgement until after you have spoken with the teacher. If he cannot really fully express what happened, you would be jumping the gun by assuming the worst.

I am curious though? Exactly what is it that he said happened?

She definitely doesn't take anything without making it sound like it was something I did wrong.

But I thought it was the teacher that did something wrong? Have you had issues with the director in the past? I guess I am just confused about what you think happened.

 

[Blueeyes101817]

i work at a day care..and am in the 4 year old class..but right next to the 3 year old....we dont yell at them, but sometimes we say we are going to bring Ms X (director) or Mr Y(owner) into the room..no one wants to dissapoint them, so they instantly behave.. i personally, do not do this often...just when it gets bad and theres other kids in there (obviously!)
also, we usually dont call home or send a note home..maybe just talk to the parent when they pick up the child..this can be hard depending if the actual teacher is therew when the child leaves...
dont worry about it until monday if you can....it wont help to worry! good luck

 

[Keli]

I've been down this road before and I'll tell you that my best advice is to try to calm down and not think about the whole thing too much until you've talked to some adults and feel like you are getting the real story. And there's an awful good chance the 'real' story varies somewhat from what you think it is now.
I would call the director of the daycare on Monday and investigate the whole situation but until then I would try to reassure my little one because regardless of what they actually said, the volume and tone they used, they scared him and he needs lots of love and reassurance from mommy and daddy. That's the most important thing I would do until monday.

 

[Karel]

Remember that a three year old perception of what happened will be totally different than an adult's point of view. If he's a shy boy who's not used to getting into trouble, he may be view discipline as 'yelling at me'. The teacher may not even have realized what a big incident it was for him.

I'm not saying it was handled correctly and what she did was right, but I would get the whole story before jumping to conclusions. Children, even young ones, tend to focus on one bit, and can't see the whole picture, including what behavior on their part led to the discipline.

Is this your oldest? It's hard to accept that even the best behaved children have bad days and may do something without stopping to think about what happened. Teachers also have bad days and may have reacted badly to the situation. Kids get disciplined for all different reasons and sometimes its hard for a parent to see it from the teacher's point of view.

In my daughter's preschool, when we picked up the kids, there was always a minute or two for the teacher to say a few words about the child's day. Do you see your child's teacher at pick up? Maybe you can casually mention the incident to her.

In the course of raising children, this is only a dress rehearsal.

 

[mom2grace]

I teach early childhood education to adults who teach in local child cares. My kids are not in "day care", but do go to a preschool program.

Trust your child!!!! Maybe it was "nothing", but it sure is something to your son.

Do a search to see if your state has a website for the regulation of child cares. Mine does, I'll check yours in a minute. Does your child go to daycare in NJ? Our site shows each visit, what was wrong, and if any complaints have been filed, and it goes back several years.

Ask open-ended questions to your son. My daughter is almost 3 and her teacher said she was behaving oddly during lunch and she couldn't figure out what was wrong. So, I talked to DD about it, then had DH talk to her about it separately. I did this to see which story "stuck" over time. We finally figured it out, it was not a big deal in the scheme of things, but a big deal to DD. She was "scared" of another child, the other child was innocent, I won't go into the details.

Feel free to PM me.

 

[SRUAlmn]

I have worked at day care centers and actually have also been a director. Every place I have ever worked we wrote notes to send home for the parents EVERY day. These notes would briefly describe how your child ate at lunch time, how he/she slept at nap time, something great he/she did that day and if there were any behavioral problems. If, in fact, something did happen with your son the thing that is concerning me most is that it was not mentioned to you. It seems like this is a rare occurance for your child and if he had to be taken to the director's office I would think it would have been an incident worth mentioning to you. I also do NOT believe in screaming at children, especially 2 and 3 year olds. I also feel you should wait until Monday and at least give the teacher and the director a chance to comment on the situation, because I know the minds of 3 year olds can be hard to read, but if your son is in a place where they scream at the kids and they do not communicate that is a BIG red flag.

 

[Hillbeans]

Originally posted by SRUAlmn
. If, in fact, something did happen with your son the thing that is concerning me most is that it was not mentioned to you. It seems like this is a rare occurance for your child and if he had to be taken to the director's office I would think it would have been an incident worth mentioning to you. .

This, in fact, is my number one concern.

I pick up my son with only about 30 minutes left till closing and generally there is only an afternoon aide - his teacher leaves earlier. when he was in the lower grades, he got a report card every day.

Like I said, communication as of late has become an issue (ie, when he was being set home with a full lunchbox with no explination) and this to me is just another red flag.

This morning, I told him to pick up his crayons before breakfast and he said in a yelling tone w/pointing his finger "You go to Miss __________'s office right now for time out". He's said it another 3 times in an hour. It obviously bothers him that he was yelled at, and in fact I must believe now that something happened or else he wouldn't be carrying on like this. He gets enough attention from myself and DH where he'd never need to make something up to get attention. If indeed he was sent there and made to be humiliated, he's never going back. I do have a backup care facility who'd be happy to have him.


(edit) thanks to everyone for your help. I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of the advice.

 

[Hillbeans]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
I would definitely wait and reserve judgement until after you have spoken with the teacher. If he cannot really fully express what happened, you would be jumping the gun by assuming the worst.

I am curious though? Exactly what is it that he said happened? But I thought it was the teacher that did something wrong? Have you had issues with the director in the past? I guess I am just confused about what you think happened.

Well, technically yes, in this case it's apparent that his teacher yelled at him to go to the director's office. I just know that something happened in there as well but my DS doesn't have the speech ability yet to really tell me what's going on. He just sort of says some words in a rough tone and points his finger a lot. The director is a no-nonsense type, but his teacher, I always thought, was pretty level headed.

I truly am not a parent who thinks their child does nothing wrong. believe me, I have him all day on the other days he's not at school and he can be a handful. All i'm saying is that if he's being diciplined in school, enough to be sent out of his class and into the teachers office, it better be for something justifiable and I should 110% be told what's going on. Keeping parents in the dark with dicipline issues is not acceptable to myself or DH.

 

[Christine]

Well, first, I think I would calm down. After having both my kids in center oriented daycare situations until they went to school, I understand your frustration.

Now, I do agree with the poster above (Karel, I think), please remember that one person's "harsh" tone may be very different from what your son is used to. Some people have the ability to give "looks" and issue commands that can really keep kids in line. There is nothing wrong with it and your son may have perceived it as yelling. Some kids are also more sensitive. I am a pretty "vocal" person with my kids. They themselves are loud and quite active. They think nothing of my "commands." On the flip side, my best friends daughter is very shy and quiet. The times she has stayed with me, I think I've freaked her out a few times. Now I know that when she is with me, I really make an effort to tone it down and be much quieter. But, truly, the teacher may have indeed yelled at him. I don't agree with it at all; however, I have also witnessed these daycare workers having to deal with 20-some 3-year olds and it is very hard on them. Or it could be that he was truly humiliated by getting in trouble because it doesn't happen too often to him.

The second issue is that ANY disciplinary action at a daycare center should require an incident report. They always did them at my son's daycare anytime he was officially reprimanded. Anytime he got put in a time out, I got a note about it and what the behavior was that caused it. Now if any child was sent to the director, that got a phone call. Fortunately, my son never got sent, but I was at the daycare center numerous times when other children were with the director and witnessed her calling the parents.

So, I think you should just relax. I would plan on making a call to the director on Monday morning and see what she has to say. If your suspicions are correct than you either need to get him out of there or make sure what their disciplinary policy is regarding informing the parents.

 

[SRUAlmn]

Originally posted by Christine:
' I have also witnessed these daycare workers having to deal with 20-some 3-year olds and it is very hard on them. '

I somewhat agree with this. Each state (or most that I know of) has a licensing agency (is your son's center licensed by your state?) These agencies regulate the ratios of children:adults for each age level. In Maryland, where I live, for example, the ratio for a 3 year old class is 10:1 unless there are some 2 year olds in the class too, then it is 6:1. They put these guidelines into places for safety reasons. They also regulate how many children can be in one classroom based on the size of the room. I have never been in a setting (and I have been in a LOT) where there were more than 15 2 and 3 year olds in a class & there were always 2-3 teachers. Having said that, it is frustrating and overwhelming at times, but as a teacher or director in this field you have to be able to handle it calmly and with a smile on your face. The day that it affects how you relate to the children is the day you need a NEW JOB!


Originally posted by Hillbeans:
'I just know that something happened in there as well but my DS doesn't have the speech ability yet to really tell me what's going on. He just sort of says some words in a rough tone and points his finger a lot.'

This concerns me a little....did your son just turn 3?? PM me if you want to discuss it

 

[janette]

Originally posted by Hillbeans
This morning, I told him to pick up his crayons before breakfast and he said in a yelling tone w/pointing his finger "You go to Miss __________'s office right now for time out". He's said it another 3 times in an hour. It obviously bothers him that he was yelled at, and in fact I must believe now that something happened or else he wouldn't be carrying on like this. He gets enough attention from myself and DH where he'd never need to make something up to get attention. If indeed he was sent there and made to be humiliated, he's never going back. I do have a backup care facility who'd be happy to have him.

I'd wait until you talk to the teacher. One time when my youngest DD was little she was playing. I heard her say to her dolls in a raised tone "1,2,3 you go to time out". I'd never said anything like that and I mentioned it to her babysitter and asked if she counted when she sent them to time out. She looked somewhat suprised and said yes she did. It really wasn't always my DD that was sent to time out (although I'm sure she had her share) but just my DD was mimicing her babysitter. If this is what he said it may not have been him that was sent to the office but a classmate. He maybe yelling but that is his way of raising his voice which teachers do sometimes have to do.

edited to add: If you son is 3 and not able to communicate you may want to check with your local school district about the pre-screening. They will provide speech therapy and other services.

 

[Hillbeans]

He just turned 3. His speech isn't the best, but he definitely says full long sentences quite often and generally communicates well. There are definitely some children in his class that are younger and speak much better, however my DS seems to be a bit behind in that, but advanced in other things. I was told my the pediatritian his speech is right around where it should be. (I do know what you're saying though, and I appreciate you mentioning it. I do watch it closely and try to work on his speech with him).

(Edit to add that the other day, he came home and said 3/4 of the Pledge of Allegiance, which he obviously learned at school. I was pretty impressed and glad they taught that. I just do know that he doesn't usually give a detailed rundown of his day, it's mostly just "yes" and "no" when I ask about his day)

I thinkI sort of get the feeling that he can't talk about this because he gets worked up and starts to cry. Mind you, this now could all be an act because he knows when he talks about it I make a face (which I should probably just stop doing).

 

[slo]

When your child is sad and hurt it really is quite painful for the parents also . I, like yourself, get myself worked up very easily when my child is upset about something somebody did to them.

Both DD's go to daycare and I have been very blessed w/ great communication at their facility. My 5yr old DD is well behaved in school and if she has a bad day the teacher always tells me about it when I pick her up. If the teacher is not there, she has who is there tell me. I am very grateful for this.

On Monday, when you drop your child off, I would ask the teacher, "Did my child have a bad day on Thursday?" or whatever day you said. If the teacher says yes, then I would explain that you really need to be notified because your child was very shaken up by this. If the teacher is not there, then I would call the director after you get to work and discuss the situation with her. If she gives you a hard time, have your state look into the facility, there may have been other complaints.

Good luck!!

 

[CEDmom]

I'd also wait until you talk to the teacher and director on Monday. It sounds like this was an isolated incident and not a pattern of behavior on their part. My DD also goes to daycare 3x per week. Her teacher this year has a very loud voice that can sound like yelling if you're not used to it. I was a little concerned about DD being in that environment but her teacher is a really warm caring person and DD has thrived in her class.

If your son is otherwise happy and learning in this center I'd be reluctant to move him. That could do more harm than good. However, if the director and teacher dismiss your concerns you might not have any choice. Give them a chance to explain and see how things stand after that.

Good luck.

 

[cgcw]

Originally posted by Hillbeans
when he was in the lower grades, he got a report card every day.

He's only 3. I would think they would have some type of daily communication. With my daycare kids, every one of them goes home with a sheet briefly (or not so briefly depending on the day) highlighting their day.

Originally posted by Hillbeans
Like I said, communication as of late has become an issue (ie, when he was being set home with a full lunchbox with no explination) and this to me is just another red flag.

A 3 year old with a full lunchbox. I would have a BIG problem with this. I will always call parents to see if their child was feeling okay if they don't eat breakfast or lunch as usual.

Originally posted by Hillbeans
If indeed he was sent there and made to be humiliated, he's never going back. I do have a backup care facility who'd be happy to have him.

You are very lucky to have backup care. Not all parents do.

I am a licensed daycare provider in my state. We have strict rules/guidelines as to how children are to be treated -- with respect at every turn. Children can be disciplined in a respectful way.

I've done my share of interviews with prospective daycare families. Whether the family ends up at my daycare or not, I always tell parents to go with your "gut" feeling. There are many people who work with children who should not. It's very, very scary to think they have a hand in the delicate care of such young children. I have seen first hand things that make me cringe as to how a child is being treated by a caregiver. Not necessarily things which are abusive, but definately things I do not like to see or ways a child should not be treated. Parents usually have a pretty good feeling about whether their children are on target in what they are trying to express.

I hope your situation works out for the best. Hopefully our DS will be able to shed some more light on the situation over the weekend. Maybe a bit of role playing with him -- when he tells you to go to the directors office?? -- might prompt him to tell a bit more. Good luck.

 

[twinmomplus2new]

Just to add some levity here.... My DD now 17 was in preschool at 2.9. I decided to take some classes and put her for 2 days in the extended day program. About 4 mts into it. She came home all upset. And informed me she did not want to go back. Because she hated to PLAY leap frog with the day care teacher. I just about had a stroke. We had just had a big sexual abuse issue at a day care near here, I was beside myself. Of course I stewed all weekend. Went in there like gang busters. Turns out it was a type of Tiddly winks game with Little frogs. Which she simply was to young to possess the dexterity for. Of course I was ready to have everyone drawn and quatered.


I know it is hard. But above all take his word for it. If he is upset there is a reason. 3 year olds are still babies in my book. Get to the bottem of it so you can all feel better. As someone already said, Your first asset is your gut. Go with that and act accordingly. Good Luck On Monday.