Disaster at Disney

[Albertan mom]

It is too bad for those that only have one day there.

But I hope that if that happened to me, I would be understanding, and definately not take it out on a CM.

But darn rights I would have taken the free pass! Even if it was only good after 4pm!!

I am sure it is very very hard for Disney to know what people are doing. Just because we are getting our hand stamped when we leave, does not mean we are returning. It means we might. Or we may go to CA. Or we may go to the hotel to eat, then decide we are tired, and not return. Or we may go to DTD, shop and decide not to return. Or we may return. But how are they supposed to really know what is going on in thousands of peoples minds?
So they let others in. So that they aren't disappointed.
Personally, if I leave at 230, and another family arrived at 2:00, and took 'my' spot, I feel that hey, at least we both got a chance to spend some time there.
I think alot of people leave, get stamped, then plan on coming back for fireworks. So does that mean that nobody else should be allowed in from say 2:00 until 8:00, "in case" you decide to come back?

 

[PinkTink63]

That is such a bummer! That would have been horrible, if that happened to us, coming from another state. That would have meant we had to stay in our yucky hotel all the time.
We arrived on the 28th and was told by the check in desk at our hotel that if we were going to the park, to get over there, because it had been reaching capacity! There was a sign up that said DL was full and the parking lot was full. We went to CA, because part of our party had never been before. They must have remedied that problem by the time we arrived, because the sign read the other days we were there "Disneyland is very busy. Plan your day accordingly!" We were told a couple of times that we might not get back in.
I think the only reason it didn't max out the last part of our trip was due to the weather. It was awful! That storm came in and lasted about 3 days!
Stephanie

 

[dopeyfanatic]

There seems to be a lot of whining about this on here. YES they should have told them that they risked not being let in, but if you read their rules and everything you would know that. That is not their fault. And I'd like to see you run a park. If 60,000 was the limit and they quit letting people in as soon as 60,000 tickets had been read, then there would be a lot of people extremely upset that they didn't get in even though 5,000 people had left. People well yell at you no matter what, just different people. At least the way they do it now some people get to enjoy half a day that they might not have otherwise. Next time you go make sure you ask when you leave...

 

[WatchinCaptKangaroo]

I simply do not understand Disney's reasoning in limiting re-entry to the park. If there is a time when capacity is reached, no further NEW entries should be permitted. If someone was in the park and left and wants to return, those people should already have been counted in the attendance figures and allowed to return since their return will not increase the actual attendance. It is simple - if a ticket allows re-entry when it is sold, there should not be restrictions later placed on that ticket.

First Disney stops selling new tickets.
Second Disney stops allowing first time admission into the park
Finally the fire marshall says OK, close the gates, any more people will be a hazzard.

To limit admission based upon tickets sold would mean they have to stop new enty on the chance that someone who left and may not come back comes back.

 

[undertheradar]

Wow, I don't get all the anger here. If you are in the park and exit, you risk being denied re-entry, plain and simple. The parks were crowded and you want the CMs to state the obvious? Most of us here(locals) avoid Saturdays due to the overwhelming crowds. Add the draw of the 50th, holiday events and lots of publicity and you create sellouts. The idea that a hand stamp is a guarantee for re-entry at any time is self created. When I leave a theme park, I leave for the day. The problem here is that people assume that if they become aggressive and attempt to bully the CMs, that the CMs will cave. The capacity is set by the Fire Marshall and Disney is REQUIRED by law to enforce the limits set by the Fire Marshall. Based upon the arguements that Disney should have informed people that there is a risk of being at capacity, then Disney must state that there is a possibility of waiting in lines for attractions, attractions might close due to operational difficulties, weather may change during the day, people in the crowd may not exhibit respectfull behavior towards others, people may drive aggressively in the parking areas, and other scenarios. How long might that slow down the park entry process should the CMs need to verify that each and every guest(park visitor) is aware of these policies? Imagine signing a multi page agreement confirming the receipt of these policies.

 

[Albertan mom]

Wow, I don't get all the anger here. If you are in the park and exit, you risk being denied re-entry, plain and simple. The parks were crowded and you want the CMs to state the obvious? Most of us here(locals) avoid Saturdays due to the overwhelming crowds. Add the draw of the 50th, holiday events and lots of publicity and you create sellouts. The idea that a hand stamp is a guarantee for re-entry at any time is self created. When I leave a theme park, I leave for the day. The problem here is that people assume that if they become aggressive and attempt to bully the CMs, that the CMs will cave. The capacity is set by the Fire Marshall and Disney is REQUIRED by law to enforce the limits set by the Fire Marshall. Based upon the arguements that Disney should have informed people that there is a risk of being at capacity, then Disney must state that there is a possibility of waiting in lines for attractions, attractions might close due to operational difficulties, weather may change during the day, people in the crowd may not exhibit respectfull behavior towards others, people may drive aggressively in the parking areas, and other scenarios. How long might that slow down the park entry process should the CMs need to verify that each and every guest(park visitor) is aware of these policies? Imagine signing a multi page agreement confirming the receipt of these policies.

Don't forget there may be stalls that are out of toliet paper, you may have to overpay for food, and you may not see every Disney character that ever existed!

 

[Shawn]

Interesting thread. We are gearing up for our next trip to DL this May.

Our last trip was over Christmas 2004 (the year before the 50th), and on Christmas day I remember hearing that the park hit 55,000 -- it was busy, but they didn't close the park that time.

When we visit, we stay on site and definitely fall into the category of people who enter and exit several times a day. We tend to hit the parks right when they open, then leave around 12:00 or so. Take the monorail back to the Hotel, rest at the pool, and then hit the parks again in the evening.

That makes the vacation relaxing for us. We get a break from the crowds, take a nap during the day, etc. If we had to stay from the time the gates open until they last parade of the night --- there's no way on God's green earth I'd be able to get my wife to go to Disneyland.

Also, we do enjoy DCA as well as DL. The parks are right next to each other, so we frequently leave one park, hop to the next, and then hop back. I'd hate to have been just going from DL to DCA and getting locked out of both because I wasn't aware the parks had reached the max.

I totally understand it being the Fire Marshall's call, and it being a safety matter. I don't think the anger was about the fact of there being no re-entrance. I think it was about the way Disney handled it. I agree that the ticket to "enter after 4:00" was basically a slap in the face -- especially for those of us who travel from out of state to visit.

I think the following two strategies would go a long ways towards preventing this chaos in the future

* when the gates are closed (or getting close to closing) due to the park being full, the hand-stampers need to tell folks on the way out that they may not get back in. This won't help all the people (since some may have left hours and hour earlier) but it will help a lot.

* if a person with a hand stamp is refused, he should be given (without having to ask for it or throw a fit) a non-expiring 1-day pass to use on a future trip.

That last bullet will rub some folks here the wrong way I'm sure, since it is taking money out of Disney's pocket, and giving a guest a free 1/2 day at the park, but I believe it is penny wise and pound foolish to offer 1/2 day passes or no pass at all. I've gotta believe that much of the chaos described above was due to folks believing they were just ripped off and they wanted to vent their anger. Right or wrong, a free ticket should help many folks not feel they were ripped off. As described above, the chaos left a bitter scenario in the minds of some grown-ups and kids -- to the point where they may *not* take that next trip to Disneyland. Much of the angry crowd would be dispersed with the free tickets.

Also, if the park reached capacity, then they have already made their maximum take for the day from gate sales. In fact, if they are denying folks re-entrance, they have exceeded their maximum (since they have sold more tickets that day than the fire marshall allows in the park at one time). So giving some back to the lock-outs is a drop in the bucket. Especially considering how few days the park actually reaches capacity. We're not talking lots of days and lots of tickets here.

Hopefully the 1st bullet will stop incidents like the lady who "just went to get the kids jacket" or the non-reported, but easy to imagine "park hopper" who gets locked out.

The 2nd bullet should help more of the people.

Of course, I know there will be those who aren't satisified with bullet 2 and will still raise a fuss, but there will be a lot fewer to deal with than with the way things happened in December.

-Shawn

 

[WatchinCaptKangaroo]

* when the gates are closed (or getting close to closing) due to the park being full, the hand-stampers need to tell folks on the way out that they may not get back in. This won't help all the people (since some may have left hours and hour earlier) but it will help a lot.

They already do that. For some reason it was an oversight by the CM the OP encountered. On days that capacity is expected even the very first people to leave are told they may not get back in. It's standard practice.

* if a person with a hand stamp is refused, he should be given (without having to ask for it or throw a fit) a non-expiring 1-day pass to use on a future trip.

They are refused only until the gates open again. They are usually told that it's going to be around an hour or two. When the gates close like that it's a 1 for 1 exit/entry. One person leaves, one goes in.

Also, if the park reached capacity, then they have already made their maximum take for the day from gate sales. In fact, if they are denying folks re-entrance, they have exceeded their maximum (since they have sold more tickets that day than the fire marshall allows in the park at one time). So giving some back to the lock-outs is a drop in the bucket. Especially considering how few days the park actually reaches capacity. We're not talking lots of days and lots of tickets here.

Not always. There are online and travel agent ticket sales, tickets being used for another day and AP holders.

 

[Scratch42]

They already do that. For some reason it was an oversight by the CM the OP encountered. On days that capacity is expected even the very first people to leave are told they may not get back in. It's standard practice.

I beg to differ, not once did a CM inform that there was a possibilty that re-entry was not going to be allowed! We were there December 24th until the 30th! If it wasn't for it being posted here prior to our trip, I would not have known either!

I don't think it is right that a person should be yelling at a CM. I had one CM who worked at the HM who told me that she was yelled at due to the fact that the wait time was 2 hours! Like it was her fault!

Even encountered one "person" who whilst we were doing the Holiday Tour yelled at our group to get our of his way because he paid a lot of money to be here and he did not want us in his way?

I personally found very rude guests in attendance that week, to the point were my DD DOES NOT want to ever go back to DL! Not sure if I'm willing either.

I for one realized that we were going at a very crowded time but when I heard the rumour that the Overlay for the HM was the last year, wasn't going to take a chance and break my promise to my DD! We were happy to be able to see HM and IASW!

Unfortunately it all boils down to the Almighty Dollar! Not was is best for their guests.

m2cw

janet

 

[Goofydiane]

I refrained from responding to the early posts until I had read the entire thread. It's a very interesting string of thoughts from different people and will now add my .02 into the mix.

To the original poster - I'm sorry you encountered the parks at a time where they reached the 3rd stage of controlling capacity. Should you have been told that you may not get back in when you left - yes. It is quite possible that at the time you left the park, they were still in the first stage of crowd control - no ticket selling and at that time you would still have been let back into the park with your hand stamp up until they reached the point where the Fire Marshall closed the gates. I didn't see it in any of the posts (if I missed it I'm sorry) that stated when the park moved from phase 2 to phase 3.

For the rest of the posters - it seems that the comments have been directed at the inability to get back into the park and the way that it was handled. Could Disney have handled it better - definately, but so could the guests wanting to get into the park. Put yourself in the others position - would any of us acted any differently in the other's place? If you were the Disney CM who had been getting verbally attacked over and over again kept calm? I'd like to say I would have, but I don't think so - while there is a ton of training for Disney CMs on how to handle this situation, sooner or later you natural defense emotions kick in and you want to defend yourself.

Look at the situation another way. What if you were already inside the park and even though the park is at the capacity level that the Fire Marshall has set as safe, Disney continues to re-admit those guests that were inside the park earlier in the day. Now you have a park that can safely handle 60,000 guests have 80,000 or more walking the streets. You have 3 hours waits for attractions instead of 2 hour waits. You have streets you can't walk up due to the 33% increase in people in the park. You have food and bathroom lines that are longer than normal. Think about waiting in line 30 minutes to take your child to the bathroom. Kids don't normally tell you ahead of time they have to go - they tell you when they have to go, and when they tell you they mean they have to go NOW!. You now have the guests inside the park complaining to the Disney CM's that the park is too crowded for them to enjoy it and they spent all this money to come to a park that is letting people in past capacity levels. Now the guests inside the park want compensation for not enjoying the experience. Think about these extra 20,000 guests in the park wanting to watch Fantasmic and the fireworks - both of these shows are already crowded to capacity every night, now add 20,000 more people pushing and shoving their way around. Someone could get seriously injured.

Now the parks are in a Catch 22 situation. Either they have to address the situation outside the parks regarding the capacity issue, or the have to address the situation inside the parks regarding the over capacity issue? It's a no-win situation for Disney

I'm not attacking any of the posts or posters. We are all entitled to our opinion. I just think we should also consider the ramifications of some of the suggestions for improvement. I'm an annual passholder who travels almost 2,000 miles 5-6 times a year to visit the parks. I would be angry right along with you if I left the park and couldn't get back in and if placed in the same situation would be upset if I wasn't told when leaving the park that I may not get back in.

Does Disney need to handle these situations better - yes.
Should there be more signs posted alerting guests to the capacity issues - yes.
An additional idea - include this information on the park maps and tickets. I assumed it was on the park map and was surprised when I checked and it wasn't. Not everyone reads the entire park map, but it would be a place that Disney could refer the guest to.

I hope it isn't this way when I go in late February!

 

[Albertan mom]

I refrained from responding to the early posts until I had read the entire thread. It's a very interesting string of thoughts from different people and will now add my .02 into the mix.

To the original poster - I'm sorry you encountered the parks at a time where they reached the 3rd stage of controlling capacity. Should you have been told that you may not get back in when you left - yes. It is quite possible that at the time you left the park, they were still in the first stage of crowd control - no ticket selling and at that time you would still have been let back into the park with your hand stamp up until they reached the point where the Fire Marshall closed the gates. I didn't see it in any of the posts (if I missed it I'm sorry) that stated when the park moved from phase 2 to phase 3.

For the rest of the posters - it seems that the comments have been directed at the inability to get back into the park and the way that it was handled. Could Disney have handled it better - definately, but so could the guests wanting to get into the park. Put yourself in the others position - would any of us acted any differently in the other's place? If you were the Disney CM who had been getting verbally attacked over and over again kept calm? I'd like to say I would have, but I don't think so - while there is a ton of training for Disney CMs on how to handle this situation, sooner or later you natural defense emotions kick in and you want to defend yourself.

Look at the situation another way. What if you were already inside the park and even though the park is at the capacity level that the Fire Marshall has set as safe, Disney continues to re-admit those guests that were inside the park earlier in the day. Now you have a park that can safely handle 60,000 guests have 80,000 or more walking the streets. You have 3 hours waits for attractions instead of 2 hour waits. You have streets you can't walk up due to the 33% increase in people in the park. You have food and bathroom lines that are longer than normal. Think about waiting in line 30 minutes to take your child to the bathroom. Kids don't normally tell you ahead of time they have to go - they tell you when they have to go, and when they tell you they mean they have to go NOW!. You now have the guests inside the park complaining to the Disney CM's that the park is too crowded for them to enjoy it and they spent all this money to come to a park that is letting people in past capacity levels. Now the guests inside the park want compensation for not enjoying the experience. Think about these extra 20,000 guests in the park wanting to watch Fantasmic and the fireworks - both of these shows are already crowded to capacity every night, now add 20,000 more people pushing and shoving their way around. Someone could get seriously injured.

Now the parks are in a Catch 22 situation. Either they have to address the situation outside the parks regarding the capacity issue, or the have to address the situation inside the parks regarding the over capacity issue? It's a no-win situation for Disney

I'm not attacking any of the posts or posters. We are all entitled to our opinion. I just think we should also consider the ramifications of some of the suggestions for improvement. I'm an annual passholder who travels almost 2,000 miles 5-6 times a year to visit the parks. I would be angry right along with you if I left the park and couldn't get back in and if placed in the same situation would be upset if I wasn't told when leaving the park that I may not get back in.

Does Disney need to handle these situations better - yes.
Should there be more signs posted alerting guests to the capacity issues - yes.
An additional idea - include this information on the park maps and tickets. I assumed it was on the park map and was surprised when I checked and it wasn't. Not everyone reads the entire park map, but it would be a place that Disney could refer the guest to.

I hope it isn't this way when I go in late February!

Good post.
And I agree--don't attack the CM--it isn't in their control, or their fault!

 

[momof2inPA]

I simply do not understand Disney's reasoning in limiting re-entry to the park. If there is a time when capacity is reached, no further NEW entries should be permitted. If someone was in the park and left and wants to return, those people should already have been counted in the attendance figures and allowed to return since their return will not increase the actual attendance. It is simple - if a ticket allows re-entry when it is sold, there should not be restrictions later placed on that ticket.

If Disney is concerned that after people leave the park that more new people enter than those that left, thus causing a capacity figure to be reached, they should adjust the time they stop allowing new entries to allow the reentry of those leaving. For example, if capacity is 60,000, they should stop total new entries at a figure slightly above 60,000 (say 62,000) in order to account for those that left and will not return. If during the day 10,000 people temporarily leave the park and 8,000 later return, then the park will be at capacity (at its peak period). It looks like the way Disney now does it is that once a figure is reached (say 65,000), they simply stop allowing anyone back into the park - even those that at one time made up part of that 65,000 figure.

Based on all the days this year that capacity has been reached (I remember when it was a rarity for the park to stop admitting people), Disney really has to figure out how to accomodate those that temporarily leave with the intention of returning.

Good post.

Disney knows that people exit and re-enter the park. They should sell to the fire marshall's limit (or add a cushion) and stick to it or they will obviously anger people unable to re-enter.

As for it not being the CM's fault, I feel for a CM being yelled at, but to the public, a CM is Disney. Obviously yelling at the CM helped the angry crowd to some degree, since the OP was able to receive a refund.

Honestly, if Disney doesn't have these capacity issues worked out yet, they must all be a bunch of bozos.

 

[samkj]

Good post.
As for it not being the CM's fault, I feel for a CM being yelled at, but to the public, a CM is Disney. Obviously yelling at the CM helped the angry crowd to some degree, since the OP was able to receive a refund.

Ever hear the expression, "You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"? I believe this saying is true and will never believe yelling at someone who is just doing their job is the only way to get a refund.

 

[Albertan mom]

Ever hear the expression, "You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"? I believe this saying is true and will never believe yelling at someone who is just doing their job is the only way to get a refund.

I agree!

 

[newfamilyman]

While it sounds like a dreadful experience, perhaps there were some exaggerations in the telling of it? For example, when has DCA ever been sold out? That's pretty much wishful thinking on management's part!

Secondly, I can't understand the original poster's shock (if that's the right choice of words) that he had to ask for a refund instead of automatically being given one. If you want something, you have to ask for it; why should it be given automatically?

Finally, if the original poster had the wherewithall to know about this board, presumably he might have known about other Disney-related web sites (such as MiceAge, MousePlanet, etc.), which have all been saying the same thing this year: Get to parks early, and if you don't want to be denied entry later on, DON'T LEAVE! I think trips are always enhanced by a little research, and in this case, a little research would have gone a long way.

Having said all that, of course, I hope your next trip is more successful. I think we're all hoping the crowds return to normal this year.

 

[mrdubleyou]

While it sounds like a dreadful experience, perhaps there were some exaggerations in the telling of it? For example, when has DCA ever been sold out? That's pretty much wishful thinking on management's part!

Secondly, I can't understand the original poster's shock (if that's the right choice of words) that he had to ask for a refund instead of automatically being given one. If you want something, you have to ask for it; why should it be given automatically?

Finally, if the original poster had the wherewithall to know about this board, presumably he might have known about other Disney-related web sites (such as MiceAge, MousePlanet, etc.), which have all been saying the same thing this year: Get to parks early, and if you don't want to be denied entry later on, DON'T LEAVE! I think trips are always enhanced by a little research, and in this case, a little research would have gone a long way.

Having said all that, of course, I hope your next trip is more successful. I think we're all hoping the crowds return to normal this year.

For weeks now I've read many of the responses to my original post. For those of you that learned something from it. I'm glad.

I'm directing my response primarily to the poster above. I'm not flaming him, because he certainly is intitled to your opinions and assumptions, no matter how out in left field and all assuming they may be.

Poster:

I notice that you are from Los Angeles. I am not. I live over 300 miles north of L.A. and the Disney area. As a local, you may be accustomed to the attendance patterns of both DL and DCA. As a tourist, (like I imagine 80-90% of the persons who visit the park) I am not. Of course I was certainly smart enough to know that the parks would be crowded which is why I, like many others arrived early. Both parks on that day were extremely crowded. Both parks were closed due to full capacity. Using your words, I guess the Disney Management got their wish. (Dreams truly do come true at Disney). I think it very small-minded of you to assume that my retelling of the story was exaggerated. It was quite the contrary. It was completely truthful and catalouged the facts of the day as they happened and NOT as I dreamed them to be for writing effect.

I can assure you also that I was definitely shocked that I had to ask for the refund. If you read the post clearly, the guest services representatives were offering other consolations instead of monetary refunds. Again, many of the guests that visit the parks are not So Cal residents. Tickets to visit the park either after 4pm or to visit DCA on another day are simply unsatisfactory or for some unrealistic. One would think that after having throbs of angry park-goers standing outside of the gates and many others demanding refunds, a decision would have been made to offer the refunds to disperse the crowds. Like I said, this wasn't the case. It wasn't until after the windows were reopened, that a REQUESTED refund was granted.

Now, for your last comment. No, I didn't know about this site or many of the others prior to my trip. I've honestly had no prior reason to visit. How did I as I imagine countless others find the site...? One word.... Google. You mentioned other sites as advising guests to not leave the parks once they've entered. I haven't checked those sites to confirm the validity of your statement but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it to be true. I think you should ask yourself however, how did the authors of those discussions know that if they left the park they wouldn't be allowed re-entry. Someone had to tell them or shared their story of not being allowed rentry. Just a thought.

I'm done with this now. I'm chalking it all up to a bad vacation and a lesson learned. Again to the others that read the posts and were able to use the information contained in it to make their trip more pleasant. I'm very very happy for you.

 

[newfamilyman]

I'm sorry for saying that you exaggerated the facts; I was just trying to be polite. In fact, you got them outright wrong. DCA has never closed for capacity reasons. My only assumption is that if you got that one fact wrong, you probably got other facts wrong as well. Again, if that assumption was wrong, I do apologize.

 

[GailT]

Are the people that stay in the Disney hotels allowed back in if they leave and then return?

 

[CALNEVA DISNEYFANS]

Wow, I'm tired, its late.... where do I begin?

Disney is a HUGE business. They know statisticaly how many people will come back, not come back, eat, drink, and poop. If you purchased a ticket for the day, you deserve your day at the park.

I feel so sorry for Disney that they filled the park to capacity (lots of $$) and CONTINUED to sell tickets until they close the gates do to OVER capacity. Wow, what a concept, I wish l could sell something to someone, run out of product, then take back what I already sold to someone else earlier, just so I could continue to sell the product, until the police had to force me to stop selling. Gee Whiz.

Don't get me wrong... I know several of you will.... If a person fools around all morning and doesnt show up until noon and the park is closed (and they havent used their ticket for the day) then that is a tought break. But If you PAID for the product... you get to enjoy that product for the entire time as agreed. I don't care if you came in first thing in the morning, left right away and did;nt come back until fireworks. BELIEVE me Disney has the statistics that show how many folks DO come back. There is NO reason for this - AND furthermore, if it does happen on ocasion, then DISNEY should be happy to give back a full day park hopper ticket with no expiration. (Hey they made lots of extra money that day for overselling the park!!!!!!!! Ther should be happy about that fact). Disney is a VERY successful business, they know more about their business than all of us combined.

PLEASE, TO SAY TO SOMEONE THAT ITS THEIR own FAULT FOR LEAVING THE PARK early... THAT IS JUST PLAIN IGNORANCE.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

Quite frankly, if any Disney park were to be closed because the park was filled to capacity, you couldn't pay me to reenter. (Of course I understand many people would not agree).