DISappearing Peeps...A fastpass to THIN! Part 2

[pigget74]

Whoever told you that AP rates are only good Sun-Thur is misinformed. I have exclusively done Fridays and Saturdays on AP rates... in fact our SSR night in Sept was a Sat, and was $164. If you use your annual pass and login to disneyworld.com/passholder it will give you a super-special 1-800 number to call for AP rate ressies, and you don't even need the codes. You can also make the ressies there but the cancellation policy for internet bookings is fierce(45 day I think) so I usually check the internet then call. The phone booking cancellation is 5 days.

Also, w/ AP rates you can call weekly or even daily for an inventory check, as the CM told me that they release more rooms as it gets closer to checkin. You may also need to tell the CM on the phone to try to book 2 or 3 nights and then cancel the last 2, as sometimes they only release the rooms for 2-3+ night stays (I have had a CM do this for me before).

Hope that helps!

We have used our AP rated onthe weekends before to, but that was before the new reservations rates starting in '08. That could be where the change is if there is a change. Remember in '08 they charge different amounts on different days so they could have a no pass rate on Friday and Saturday. I hate that because those are the days we would always use our rates--on nights we did not want to use up all our points. Good luck and let us know what you find out.



MONICA--you DO NOT look like Ms. Beasley,

 

[punkin413]

And any chance you could talk to the girlfriend's daughters. You are closer in age and maybe they would listen to you? It's a tough situation.

i thought about that but then i thought it might make matters worse. if anyone says negative things about my dad to me, i'll lose it. in fact, dad and shelly (his GF) were thinking about having thanksgiving together and then decided against it because right now her kids are too upset. (wht a couple of babies!!!) dad thinks that one of them will make a remark that me or brett (my brother) will not like and then the you-know-what will hit the fan. i'm a very friendly person but i do have a bit of a temper!

We have used our AP rated onthe weekends before to, but that was before the new reservations rates starting in '08. That could be where the change is if there is a change. Remember in '08 they charge different amounts on different days so they could have a no pass rate on Friday and Saturday. I hate that because those are the days we would always use our rates--on nights we did not want to use up all our points. Good luck and let us know what you find out.

the reason i thought this is because i saw this on the disney passholder website:

With discount rates at select Disney Value Resorts and Disney's Saratoga Springs Resort & Spa for Sunday through Thursday stays most nights Sept 30 - Nov 20, Nov 25 - 29, and Dec 8 - 23, 2007 plus seasonal events like the Epcot® International Food & Wine Festival and holiday festivities, you can pick the vacation you want!

so that made me think that maybe AP rates are only for weekdays. we'll see! if i see that they're only offering them for weekdays throughout the next couple of months, i'll probably cancel my ressie just for that night and rent points. regular rate is $355 per night at SSR and if i rent points i could probably get that night for $260 (26 points).

 

[DisneyObsession]

First of all, with the meanies at my school they probably wouldn't allow this. But it isn't even that I want to walk...heck the actual ceremony isn't until June anyway and I finish everything up in April I'm bummed because without my master's degree, I can't get my certification and without all that, I can't get a job. Just stinks. Still have heard nothing. Just gonna wait it out. It's all I can do.

OH! I wasn't thinking of graduating and getting your degree in the same realm. Ignore what I said.

Punkin: Family Affair: It was a show with Buffy, Jodi, Mr. French, Uncle Bill and an older sibling. The uncle raised the kids, French was rhe Butler and Buffy carried a doll she called Mrs. Beasley.

See she does have square glasses. There is a resemblance.

Yup! She does have square glasses, but you STILL don't look like her!

I have my documents in my hands and am sooo excited I can't stand it! Our TA forgot to give us the MVMCP tickets, so I have to go there today and pick them up. That's OK...I was starting to wonder if she really worked there or not! She's just never around when I call!!!

My ticker is getting lower and lower! This trip will be here before I know it!!! AAAHHHH!!! I need to pack! I need to make lists! I need to do ALOT of things! (Including start my Pre-TR!) HELP!!!!

 

[MA pigletfan]

my dad just called me. he has a problem. he's been seeing this woman for about 3 months now and they're getting along sooooooo well. he's so happy because it's the first decent relationship he's had in 5 years and he can really see it going somewhere. well, this lady's two daughters don't like my dad. they're 21 and 23. i DON'T understand why they don't like him. my dad is really one of the most friendly and genuinely nice people i know (i'm not biased or anything! ) honestly it's kinda ticking me off that they don't like my dad. but anyway, this lady talked to them yesterday and told them that she thinks she has strong feelings for my dad and can see their relationship becoming more serious. her oldest daughter is now not speaking to her and demanding that she break up with my dad. dad is really frustrated. he's just at a loss as to what he should do. i told him all he could is just be there for her and not push anything.....her kids are always gonna be her kids and he can't change that. hopefully they'll "see the light" one day and realize that my dad is a great guy and that their mother deserves to be happy. i don't understand how people can be so selfish! any advice as to what he can do to make this situation any better???

i thought about that but then i thought it might make matters worse. if anyone says negative things about my dad to me, i'll lose it. in fact, dad and shelly (his GF) were thinking about having thanksgiving together and then decided against it because right now her kids are too upset. (wht a couple of babies!!!) dad thinks that one of them will make a remark that me or brett (my brother) will not like and then the you-know-what will hit the fan. i'm a very friendly person but i do have a bit of a temper!

Oh Dawn...i totally know what you mean about flipping if someone says something negative about your dad. I am the same way, pretty easy going, but mess with my parents I WILL lose it on you..no doubt about it. It sounds to me that those two kids have alot of growing up to do and feel threatened by the relationship. I would have more sympathy for them if they were in middle school or even high school..but lets face it they are adults. I guess I dont' have any advice for your dad other than what you said about sticking by his girlfriend and letting things cool down. I'm sure with time they will grow to accept and "GOD FORBID" really like your dad over time..I think the mother needs to be the one to put her foot down and be like " look..this is a good man, you two are adults..i'm not telling you to act like he is your father but for respect for me, keep your unfounded opinions to yourself and grow up." As long as your dad isn't one of those people that will try overly hard to get them to like him ( which i highly doubt he is, from what you have said he sounds like a very reasonable and intellegent man ( with a Harley )...i am sure it will be ok. UGH FRUSTRATING THOUGH!!!

 

[my2boysrtwicethefun]

Good Morning! Do you all have room for one more to join? I hope so!

I am new to posting on the DIS, but I have been reading for weeks now. My family and I are planning our very first WDW vacation so I have been absolutely addicted to reading these boards and learning all that I can!

I have also been trying to lose weight for far too long and have finally decided that this is it. I WILL lose this weight before our big trip! I want to be able to keep up with my children (ages 6, 5 & 3) and not tire out on them while touring the parks. I started exercising and eating right about a week and half ago, and I'm already down 5lbs!!!

I look forward to getting to know you all

We almost have the same color eyes. Duh!
Sometimes I'm told I have a good sense of humor.

All my young life everyone told me I looked like Cindy Brady. Even when I was a teen. Especially when I got my braces. Who knows.

Here's a question, who have you been told you look like? Celebrity style.

Monica, your girls are absolutely beautiful. Your haircut looks great.

When I was in my teens, everyone said that I looked like Wednesday from The Adams Family movies.

My ticker is getting lower and lower! This trip will be here before I know it!!! AAAHHHH!!! I need to pack! I need to make lists! I need to do ALOT of things! (Including start my Pre-TR!) HELP!!!!

It will be here before you know it.

TODAY MARKS


50 DAYS UNTIL DISNEY...............

 

[aries1980]

Heey everyone just poppin in

 

[Sandy321]

We almost have the same color eyes. Duh!
Sometimes I'm told I have a good sense of humor.

All my young life everyone told me I looked like Cindy Brady. Even when I was a teen. Especially when I got my braces. Who knows.

Here's a question, who have you been told you look like? Celebrity style.

I'm not good at this - I have someone in mind, but cant think of her name, and Lynda with that hair you do remind me of someone too, not Cindy Brady, not Jan, Not Marsha - I'll think of it Punkin absolutely reminds me of ... someone - but not with dark hair, that's throwing me off, someone vivacious, fun-spirited... me? I used to be told I reminded some of Marie Osmond... (I wish!! of course, I'm sure that is insulting Marie, but it was at the time of the Donny and Marie show...)

Tomorrow night for the bar? That would work great! And Murphy's is where we went last time. I'll talk to Josh. He's off at 5 tomorrow, and neither of us work on Sunday, so we could both go. That would be FUN! Call me!

Are you awake yet??? *g - everyone here is still asleep. We have to gett my car's oil changed, and see about checking the tire rod? It refused to go over 63 milesperhour - truly acting like the tire was going to fall off - and it makes a horrible "CLUNK" sound in city driving... why is it this van breaks down in Champagne?? Anyway we're also headed to Petco for the dog... and of course a WalMart to get (I dunno things - shower curtains, fans, powerstriips, LAMPS, lol - its so much nicer than the place DS had last time!!)

Hey, I thought I quoted someone else....

CONGRATS FRAN!! I think I have to log into TGM to find my time - maybe in the 70days now - (Jan 10) I've got my sitters lined up - I cant wait, a vacation, without kids... DH and I... IN DISNEYWORLD!! (ok I will have to run 13 miles to 'earn' it!!)

 

[Sandy321]

Punkin about your dad - that is hard - what is her advice? Do you talk to her? Let her know they have your support - and then the hardest you have to ... let go...

BTW

LEXI where are you girlfriend??? I know you are awake!!

Hey, y'all should see DS #2 ipod list!! I'm telling you, ok... here are some of the artist.. ac/dc, adam sandler, afro man, all american rejects (some of the a's.. roflol), Barenaked ladies, belinda carlisle, Beetles, (Bethoven, Mozart, lots of piano concertos... tons!) Beachboys..Blind Melon, Blink, Bob Dylan, Coldplay, Coolio, Counting Crows, Dashboard confessions... etc.. but really - he has DISNEY!!! and some Showtunes (Mulan Rouge, Joseph, ) I just grinned - wonder if I can snag some into my list??

I love the poster on the wall - Abbey Road - Beatles (huge - adds a lot torr the room!) then a movie poster The Saints, then a World Map!! Seriously, and of course "Starry Night" a Van Gough!!

 

[monymony3471]

You are too funny! I think you look great! LOVE those glasses!







Back when Clueless came out, I was told Alicia Silverstone. My hair was longer and all one length. I think I have a picture of me from about that time. Let's see...

There ya go.

Oh yes I can totally see it.

Good evening peeps.

Punkin Saw Borat at the theater with DH and DS26. DH is kind of stuffy so I was worried about him but he laughed at certain parts. I about choked in a few parts myself--I loved when the kids come up to the ice cream truck and the bear sticks its head out and roars. Of course, DS26 liked the toilet type humor. DH and I do not like the same kind of movies so it's very difficult for us to watch anything together. Everything else we are pretty in sync after all these years but not on movies.

And any chance you could talk to the girlfriend's daughters. You are closer in age and maybe they would listen to you? It's a tough situation.

Monica When I was in high school, my friends called me Tin Man because they said I looked like the Tin Man from Wizard of Oz. So does that count as a celebrity? Should I want it to count as a celebrity? It's not like people had posters of the Tin Man up because he was so good looking. I guess I could have lied and said people think I look like Angelina Jolie. Heck, I could probably pick anything that would be more complimentary than Tin Man.

DH did a cruel thing tonight. He went to Costco and bought Halloween candy. Two huge bags. I haven't thought about chocolate in 2 months but as soon as those bags entered the house, I swear, I can hear them calling my name. I hope I don't sneak out in the middle of the night and eat some hoping DH won't notice. I'm very very afraid. Stupid thing is that we are not going to be home on Halloween night to hand out candy anyway so who is going to eat it now.

Well gots to run. Friday Night Lights is coming on and I'm trying to stick with the show even though it's gotten ridiculous this year. Have a great evening.

Faith

Tin Man? That's funny. But not because you look like him, just funny that someone would think that. I'm sure you don't thogh.

OH! I wasn't thinking of graduating and getting your degree in the same realm. Ignore what I said.



Yup! She does have square glasses, but you STILL don't look like her!

I have my documents in my hands and am sooo excited I can't stand it! Our TA forgot to give us the MVMCP tickets, so I have to go there today and pick them up. That's OK...I was starting to wonder if she really worked there or not! She's just never around when I call!!!

My ticker is getting lower and lower! This trip will be here before I know it!!! AAAHHHH!!! I need to pack! I need to make lists! I need to do ALOT of things! (Including start my Pre-TR!) HELP!!!!

I honestly feel your excitment.

And guys, i know I don't look like Mrs. Beasley. It was just a thought that came to mind while looking at my goofy grin and I thought it was funny and put it out there for some laughs. Laughing does burn calories right?

All my normal smiles I didn't like so I made a goofy face and thought that's showable.

Anyways. It's my anniversary. I'm picking up DH gift soon and I will let you know about it after I give it to him. He IS SUCH THE BIGGEST LURKER. He just told me last night about reading about Dane Cook comments people wrote.

Have a great weekend.

It's still raining and the shingles are just sitting on my roof for the second day. I'm glad I sceduled a weekend to do the job. Should have checked the weather. That's right, the reports change dailey anyways. They never get it right.

Oh well, day care will have to tolerate the noise during the week.

 

[majicintheair]

Hey all! sorry for not posting weight yesterday, my loss was a puny -5. I have been having computer issues..... ...they finally came out and installed a new modem, (wireless even! ) so far so good. I have read and caught up with everyone. I really wish I could have posted more of a loss. I am afraid that I am at a plateau. For 2 weeks I have been really trying and all I get is a -.5 pound loss????? This is really frustrating. I am -.5 pound away from a 20 pound loss. Well, I'll just post numbers, there is no shame here, right ? I am at 165. and my lowest EVER has been 155 (for the famous 5 minutes, then I breathed and it was over) I was at 160 for a few months....maybe a year....and I have alot of clothes that I like for that size. I'm thinking, because right now they are fitting like I still need to lose 10 pounds (just to tight, I am not into tight clothes) that I was probably alot more toned then. BLAGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! I need to get it through my head that it is diet AND exercise, EQUALLY that works best. Well I will keep trying, having a shared goal definitely keeps me going . I cannot really even tell yall how much I enjoy reading and posting and even lurking here...........it is my soap opera, newspaper and gossip channel all in one. I mean that in the best way!!!!!!!! Can I post my music even though I am a day or two late? I don't own an ipod, or any cd's really, lame I know. My daughter is 15 and got me into things like Green Day and The Fray, (How To Save a Life by The Fray is the best, imho) I also like some Fergie. That is, when she (my daughter) listened to that type of music. Now, for the past 6 months or so, she has given up all music, except gospel. She goes to a different church than I do (she got into this church when she went to the private school there, last year for about 9 weeks, which is a whole other story, and part of my very bad year last year, BUT anyway, that was waaaaay off topic) and the only music they promote is gospel. Which is good for her because I was beginning to think that her mp3 player would have to be surgically removed, because for a time she would eat, sleep, and breathe "emo" type music. She actually took all of her old cd's to the church and "got rid" of them. Any other moms of teens know what I'm talking about here with "emo" music? So now I listen to the radio, or I'll "you tube" something if I feel like listening to it. Maybe I will get my own ipod, I, to, am a little old fashioned in regards to technology. Well, I'm glad I got to check in YAY for the new modem!

 

[majicintheair]

I will own up to being told I look like the Lion King.???????? I guess because I have "fluffy" blondish hair. I do not know.................whatever.

 

[Wonders10]

Peeps, today was an icky day. First of all, I need to share some backstory. My aunt and uncle and my aunt's children all have some, shall we say, quirks, about them. I'm being nice here. I mean, I love them...they are family but strangers would think some of the things they do and say are just plain odd/crazy/weird (insert your word for the opposite of "normal" here). Along those lines are my negative feelings towards myself that I still live at home with my mom, that I spend so much time with my mom (hanging out on weekend and vacations, etc), have not had a boyfriend in forever and never have luck with men anyway, and locally, do not have many close friends that I hang out with. But most of the time, I'm pretty happy being me. Fast forward to today...

My brother's niece turns 2 on this week so his in-laws had a birthday party today for her. My mom and I were invited which was nice. I wouldn't say we are close, but we attend each other's family functions at times. Anyway, my mom and I were talking with my brother and the subject of our family's oddness came up and he just basically said flat out that he (my DB) is the only normal one in our whole family. What about mom and I? "well your sort of normal but I am the most normal of the bunch, followed by you two". Did I mention that my brother's ego is about the size of Alaska? He is so judgemental of people and if they do something that he doesn't agree with, then it's not right. So I ask what makes him soooo "normal". Well he is married, has kids, good job and house. What does that have to do with being normal? I live at home because I'm earning a Master's Degree so that I can have a pretty darn good paying job, and then move out and pay rent without living paycheck to paycheck. Pretty smart if you ask me. I don't have kids because I'm not married. I could tell he was just sort of exaggerating everything after awhile, but I know he really does think some of these things. I was furious and really hurt since he pretty much touched on all my insecurities that deep down I know are stupid, but still bother me. I was actually fighting back tears, and he knew I was upset. It just really bothered me. Growing up, he was like the father figure I had instead of my dad and instead of making my dad proud, I wanted to make him proud. And I feel like he is always ashamed to call me his sister. Even years ago when I lost a ton of weight and was thin, he told me I should cut back on the ice cream when I said how I wanted to tone my things up a little. I was a size 6 for crying out loud. Whatever. I just needed to vent. I know none of this probably makes any sense to any of you but I needed to vent to someone.

Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

 

[pamrob]

Haven't been on all week - too many projects, husband has pneumonia, yada yada.

Didn't even weigh yesterday.

Wonders - wow, your brother sounds like one of my brothers. I think sometimes people make themselves feel better by trying to point out what they see as flaws in others. It's just his insecurities showing through. This is what I always tell my mother (generally when she is frustrated with her mother) - You can't change others, just your reaction to them. You should be proud of what you are accomplishing with your schooling. Don't let him rain on your parade!!!

 

[Wonders10]

Wonders - wow, your brother sounds like one of my brothers. I think sometimes people make themselves feel better by trying to point out what they see as flaws in others. It's just his insecurities showing through. This is what I always tell my mother (generally when she is frustrated with her mother) - You can't change others, just your reaction to them. You should be proud of what you are accomplishing with your schooling. Don't let him rain on your parade!!!

Thanks...he gets like this sometimes and usually I can just let it roll off my back. But today just really wasn't one of those days. Nobody can be as perfect as him I guess

Did I mention that he and DSIL will be joining us at Disney in December? They decided that they are going to tag along. They probably won't do the parks with us though. Not their thing. They might try for Cirque tickets but my brother will flip when he sees how much they are. If not just a nice dinner or something. Any ideas for a good breakfast on our check out day? My brother has requested no characters which I'm perfectly ok with. My niece and nephew can take them or leave them. We are staying at the Poly, remember so I initially thought Kona or Wispering Canyon at WL. And anyone that is familiar with the Orlando area and can give suggestions for a non-disney restaurant for my DB and DSIL...nice, decent prices, good but, but not I have to get dressed up nice.

Thanks peeps...nothing like planning a disney trip to cheer you up.

 

[DisneyObsession]

WOW...Slow Day! Where is everyone?!? You all must be very busy today!

I went to AAA and picked up mu MVMCP tickets! I can barely contain myself I am soooo excited!!!

15 days...and counting....

 

[DisneyObsession]

OK...I took the plunge and started a Pre-TR for my upcoming land/sea trip! Here's the link:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=21504255#post21504255

Hope you enjoy it!

 

[monymony3471]

My husbands wedding ring has broke a few times where I had to get it resoddered. Hope that was the right word and spelling. Anyways, I'm tired of getting it fixed. Broke again.

So I took it to a jeweler and had it melted down. They took out the diamonds and made a stronger thicker band and put the diamonds in the new ring.

His other ring had a hallow underside which always pressed into his skin and left and indention. This one won't.

He got me a nice pair of earrings and a dock for my IPod. Cool!

I did the tread mill again.

My moms city had a Halloween function for the kids. It was called Trunk or Treat. They got to go begging in a parking garage. All the spaces had a car with their trunks open and decorated for Halloween and they passed out candy from their trunks.

They had cider and hotdogs too. It was fun and nice. Tons of people.

Tim got a nice job offer. But we don't think we can take it. There's no relocation program. We need to sell this house and houses are not selling and IF they are, soooooo cheap. We'd never get any money out of this house. Plus we took out a loan and we'd have to pay it off and with a penalty for paying it so early. That's the big issue.

Plus he's so concerned about my loss of income. We use my income for bills. We count on it. We can't afford to lose it. Especially since I wasn't making anything while on maternity leave.

The big stinky part, is this offer is such a great opportunity job wise for him. He just keeps moving up and this would look so great on a resume. The other possible offer could hold him back and I just want to see him succeed and be rewarded for all of his hard work.

We know what's best, we want to move forward and we are just stuck as to what to do. We are afraid to take such a risk. This is tough.

He spoke with his boss who is thinking about what Tim needs over the weekend and will get back to him. It sounds like Tim is asking for a miracle. It just doesn't seem likely this will happen.

Tomorrow is corn maze with the cub scouts. I have to take all 4 kids without Tim. He flys out to Chicago tomorrow.

 

[Pakey]

Hi peeps. Just checking in for last time today. Saturday night and I've got nothing better to do. DH is watching some horrible horror movie (I don't do those) so I decided to get on the computer.

Shannon. I'm really sorry that your brother was such a jerk to you. I have not spoken to one of my brothers for many years now because he always felt he was superior to me as a parent (although neither of his children grew up to be any more spectacular than mine) and had to tell me and the rest of the family contstantly how bad I was at parenting. I just couldn't take it anymore so I quit doing family functions and we just parted ways. It was very difficult for my parents and my other brother to handle but I think they more or less understand. Even after my parents told him I had cancer, he never called or sent a card or anything. We live about 15 minutes apart and only see one another at family funerals now. I have always kept in touch with his kids and still do but he's never contacted my children at all. Such a sad sad thing. I believe that anyone who feels the need to gloat about their superiority has some guilty feelings about something.

Monica. I'm keeping my fingers crossed about your husband's job situation. These are always such tough decisions to make. I've relocated cross country about 5 times with my career. I always put my career above everything else in my life, including my family and in hindsight, I see how many mistakes I made, how much my husband and kids sacrificed for me. Since you guys are thoroughly looking at all options, you will make the right choices for all of you.

It was a good day for me. I didn't cheat at all. I'm so motivated to lose weight and get into shape that it's pretty easy for me right now. I don't understand why it took me so long to get this way but it sure has helped my mental well being to be able to feel good about this. I was telling my cousin today how helpful it's been to be here with the peeps. Now if I could just get a face lift and do something with my 2-inch long curly hair. Any cosmetic surgeons or hair stylists in this group?

Faith aka Tin Man

 

[AnnNan]

Good Morning! Do you all have room for one more to join? I hope so!

glad to have you!

New hair, new glasses, all that is missing is new body.

Cute! Definitely not Mrs. Beasley, but funny how the picture style was similar and you do have startlingly beautiful blue eyes! I can definitely see (from your pic before) how you got Cindy Brady! I always thought so but really different now. I Like the new haircut!

And, I'm pretty sure I never looked like a celebrity!
Lynda did tho, didn't she?! I can definitely see Alicia Silverstone in her pic from that era.



Shannon, I didn't mean to delete your whole quote, but I did want to say "brothers just don't get it sometimes." I love mine - a bunch, and he loves me alot, but he does and says the stupidest things sometimes, but he never means anything unkind. And he (like your brother) knows and appreciates how much I love his kids, and he trusts me with them totally! We have lots of fun together like you do with your niece and nephew.

I actually spent several hours this evening with my parents and 5 year old nephew at Chuck E. Cheese's. We usually have my 2 nieces too. It was fun to get to lavish all the attention on him for once. We had such a good time.

Wishing everyone a nice Sunday! I'll be spending it driving about ten hours.

 

[Sandy321]

WOW...Slow Day! Where is everyone?!? You all must be very busy today!

I went to AAA and picked up mu MVMCP tickets! I can barely contain myself I am soooo excited!!!

15 days...and counting....

Shannon ...

Pakey more

I dont know what happened between my brother and me.... he wont speak to me... my mom says its because I didnt go to grandma's funeral... as if I dont have enough guilt there... sad...

I got to meet up with Lynda!! (ok this computer is to quirky, I cant tell you how many tim es for no reason the last smile just s hows up - I got tired of backspacing... up after all the group hugs... so I thought I'd just t ype away to see how many tim es cool would show up...driving me NUTS!!)

Thanks Lynda and Josh for coming out and hanging with us!!!

I'm waiting for #2 son to come - 5 home from work (Pizza hut - 5 to close - isnt 1 am past closing??? *yawn)