Difference in parenting or age??

[RadioNate]

I think you're right. I do view them as little girls. Also, it could have something to do with where each person lives. I grew up in a small town and live in a small town (think rural Iowa). Most middle school children here are not wearing heavy makeup, in fact, neither are most of the high school students! There's a few, but the vast majority have the fresh, clean makeup looks without the dark eyeliner. I've lived in big cities, but that was before I had children of my own so I didn't really pay attention to the fashion trends of young people. Even if I was in a big city, I would say no on the eye liner before high school, but I also might be more used to it when I did see it. That pre-teen/ early teen is so hard. They are still little girls in many ways, but they are also blossoming into adults. It's a very fine line parents have to walk....

You also may be onto something with location. I grew up in the city. Big city. Chicago.

At 13, I had giant hair and wore tons of makeup. Sure, now I think I looked ridiculous but in the photos we all look the same.

At 13, I went to concerts (like Motley Crue, Guns N Roses and Bon Jovi) without parents. We even camped out for tickets!

At 13, I baby sat other kids.

At 13, I went to 'all night skates' and overnight lock ins.

I got a CD player for my 13th birthday to go with my walkman, lol. I had a TV and VCR in my room. Some of the 1st movies I had were Breakfast Club and this horrid hair metal documentary by Penelope Spheeris. We were into the Nightmare on Elm Street movies and read VC Andrews books.

 

[mjkacmom]

I think you're right. I do view them as little girls. Also, it could have something to do with where each person lives. I grew up in a small town and live in a small town (think rural Iowa). Most middle school children here are not wearing heavy makeup, in fact, neither are most of the high school students! There's a few, but the vast majority have the fresh, clean makeup looks without the dark eyeliner. I've lived in big cities, but that was before I had children of my own so I didn't really pay attention to the fashion trends of young people. Even if I was in a big city, I would say no on the eye liner before high school, but I also might be more used to it when I did see it. That pre-teen/ early teen is so hard. They are still little girls in many ways, but they are also blossoming into adults. It's a very fine line parents have to walk....

I don't know how old your children are, but I don't think of my dd13 as a little girl - and when she dresses, she certainly doesn't look like a little girl (she's 5'4", hourglass figure, 34C). She wears light makeup, but lots of the girls wear the dark eyeliner - it's just a trend. Now, it was the beginning of the 80's when I was her age - TONS of makeup - eyeliner, hot pink lipstick, purple blush... I cringe when I see pictures!

 

[NHdisneylover]

I think something you've said in both these posts sums up the parenting differences well ... "little girls."

I don't think a 13 year old is a little girl. Therefor, I don't think they should be treated like, or act like little girls.

You still see them as little girls, which is fine. It is just different than how I would view a 13 year old.

I think that is the same difference between the OP and her niece's parents.

It isn't right or wrong per say just different.

Funny--DD12 has been reading over my shoulder all day and that was her comment--"Since when is a 13 year old teenager a little girl?" I would agree that I do not see 13 year olds as little girls. They are in that strange phase between child and adult (and not really fitting in with older teens either). I can tell you DD's body does not look like that of a little girl (she is 5'6", C cup, curvy hips, often mistaken for 16-17 with braids and wearing jeans and a baggy shirt; mistaken for up to 20 with her hair down and fitted--not tight--clothes on). She is much mor responsible than a little girl as well: she babysits, cooks, goes all over town on public transit alone, etc.

I am lucky, DD has no desire to wear heavy eyeliner. If she did though, I doubt I would prohibit it. To me, that is one of htose things I want to say yes to so that no has more meaning when needed. However, I can understand it being a no form other parents. I do want to note htat while some young teens wear make-up to be sexy and attract boys, MANY wear it to appease/impress their girlfriends. Girls are much more critical of other girls than boys are of girls. Plenty of girls have pressed DD to wear make-up. No boys have--but they tend to fall all over her in spite of her not bothering to wear make-up and not wanting their attention (or maybe her lack of interest is hte draw).

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

That's cool. Just don't get upset when you are judged because you still play with dolls.

Wow, you're just a lovely Dis poster, aren't you?

Honestly, I'm very sorry if my decision not to let my DD wear eyeliner and my silly little opinion that eye liner on little girls is tacky has in some way offended you, I offer my sincere apologies.

Of course, it is no more tacky than picking fights with strangers on a message board....

Different strokes, I guess....

 

[mjkacmom]

You also may be onto something with location. I grew up in the city. Big city. Chicago.

At 13, I had giant hair and wore tons of makeup. Sure, now I think I looked ridiculous but in the photos we all look the same.

At 13, I went to concerts (like Motley Crue, Guns N Roses and Bon Jovi) without parents. We even camped out for tickets!

At 13, I baby sat other kids.

At 13, I went to 'all night skates' and overnight lock ins.

I got a CD player for my 13th birthday to go with my walkman, lol. I had a TV and VCR in my room. Some of the 1st movies I had were Breakfast Club and this horrid hair metal documentary by Penelope Spheeris. We were into the Nightmare on Elm Street movies and read VC Andrews books.

This was me, too - I lived (still live) outside NYC.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

As for your DD's atheism....more power to her if she is happy with her beliefs. My husband's agnostic, and I would never judge someone based on their religion, just their eyeliner, lol.

OK good.

If we are beating "judging people" to a pulp. Everybody, judges everybody. It is human nature.

I think we are talking about degrees of judgement.

Your dd is going to be judge by peers/parents for playing with dolls and likewise the niece is going to be judged for wearing eyeliner...

There is no escape....

 

[NHdisneylover]

okay OP--so we have pretty much determined that the larger envoirnment outside of home also plays a part in these things (like do you live in a big city or rural area?).

 

[RadioNate]

OK good.

If we are beating "judging people" to a pulp. Everybody, judges everybody. It is human nature.

I think we are talking about degrees of judgement.

Your dd is going to be judge by peers/parents for playing with dolls and likewise the niece is going to be judged for wearing eyeliner...

There is no escape....

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

You also may be onto something with location. I grew up in the city. Big city. Chicago.

At 13, I had giant hair and wore tons of makeup. Sure, now I think I looked ridiculous but in the photos we all look the same.

At 13, I went to concerts (like Motley Crue, Guns N Roses and Bon Jovi) without parents. We even camped out for tickets!

At 13, I baby sat other kids.

At 13, I went to 'all night skates' and overnight lock ins.

I got a CD player for my 13th birthday to go with my walkman, lol. I had a TV and VCR in my room. Some of the 1st movies I had were Breakfast Club and this horrid hair metal documentary by Penelope Spheeris. We were into the Nightmare on Elm Street movies and read VC Andrews books.

We did all that, too. Except the makeup. There was one girl I remember that wore heavy makeup, and she got made fun of. I'm also beginning to think that it might be because the majority of the kids all grew up together here. They know what each other looks like without makeup. Heck, they remember when so and so puked on their desk in kindergarten, or who fell off the monkey bars and got a black eye in 1st grade. They're more comfortable being "casual" around each.

By the way, I would have killed to go to a GNR concert at 13. Heck, I'd pay good money to go to one now (if it were the original members, that is!)

 

[mjkacmom]

We did all that, too. Except the makeup. There was one girl I remember that wore heavy makeup, and she got made fun of. I'm also beginning to think that it might be because the majority of the kids all grew up together here. They know what each other looks like without makeup. Heck, they remember when so and so puked on their desk in kindergarten, or who fell off the monkey bars and got a black eye in 1st grade. They're more comfortable being "casual" around each.

By the way, I would have killed to go to a GNR concert at 13. Heck, I'd pay good money to go to one now (if it were the original members, that is!)

I think it's location - I live in the same town that I grew up in - heck, the same town my dad grew up in! DH and I have know each other since we were 12, and our children go to school with children of the kids we grew up with. There were so many kids at my 20th HS reunion that I went to kindergarten with. It's a weird small town of 27,000 people who all grew up here!

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

I think it's location - I live in the same town that I grew up in - heck, the same town my dad grew up in! DH and I have know each other since we were 12, and our children go to school with children of the kids we grew up with. There were so many kids at my 20th HS reunion that I went to kindergarten with. It's a weird small town of 27,000 people who all grew up here!

27,000 people is a city to me! We've got 5,000!

I love my small town life, but sometimes I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone instead!

 

[KAMKIM]

I don't know how old your children are, but I don't think of my dd13 as a little girl - and when she dresses, she certainly doesn't look like a little girl (she's 5'4", hourglass figure, 34C). She wears light makeup, but lots of the girls wear the dark eyeliner - it's just a trend. Now, it was the beginning of the 80's when I was her age - TONS of makeup - eyeliner, hot pink lipstick, purple blush... I cringe when I see pictures!

I used to pin the bottoms of my pants and then pull up my scrunched socks

 

[The Mystery Machine]

27,000 people is a city to me! We've got 5,000!

I love my small town life, but sometimes I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone instead!

My oldest is a Freshman in college with a student body of 30,000.

 

[Scurvy]

OK good.

If we are beating "judging people" to a pulp. Everybody, judges everybody. It is human nature.

I think we are talking about degrees of judgement.

Your dd is going to be judge by peers/parents for playing with dolls and likewise the niece is going to be judged for wearing eyeliner...

There is no escape....

I agree with this. However, I think it is overly judgemental to suggest that a girl who still plays with dolls at 13 has developmental delays. To me, that's like saying that a 13 year old who wears heavy eyeliner is a tramp. One might be less mature than the other, or one might be trying to seem too mature, but neither one is necessarily a negative thing. Using the term "developmental delays" makes it sound like any girl who would play with dolls has a problem and makes it seem like a negative thing, which is certainly not always the case.

okay OP--so we have pretty much determined that the larger envoirnment outside of home also plays a part in these things (like do you live in a big city or rural area?).

I think that must have quite a bit to do with it. Some of the things that people on this thread find normal for a 13 year old would most certainly not be considered normal in my area - and I live in a reasonably sized city, but it obviously isn't as progressive as some areas.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

Which is awesome, they are 9. There is a HUGE difference between 9 and 13. You all are a little sensitive about the American Girl dolls.

My entire point is that there is a big socially developmental jump between about 6th and 7th grade where dolls and Disney and things generally associated with 'little kids' becomes very uncool. Frankly, a lot of those things become cool again after the next big jump, which I think happens between freshman & sophomore year in HS.

At 34, I get that it isn't about cool but 13 year olds don't get that yet.

Eh, DH bought the AG doll for DD9-if it had come flying down the stairs instead of general grievous I would have been fine with it.

My original point was that kids of any age that participate in creative play should be supported, not looked at as weird. DD10 has no interest in dolls, she has a lot of Schliech animals/fairies that are engaged in bizarre escapades (we started collecting them at the german pavillion at epcot).

That's kind of awesome!

Yeah, geeks rule!

Actually, no it wasn't. The rest of your reply above is an answer.

And your answer, when you finally provided it, is exactly what I expected.

I find it interesting that you had a cow when someone suggested that it's not normal for a 13 year old to still play with dolls. But then you're just as judgmental when it comes to make up and 13 years olds.

Whatever.

Cranky much?

My 8 year old would do that, but there is a HUGE difference between a 9 year, old and a 13 year old - there is a very good chance that, in 4 years, your dd and her friends will find other ways to entertain themselves.

I'm assuming their creative outlets will continue to evolve as they grow older. Finding positive outlets for that creativity is my job as their mom. I'm also guessing that they'll probably be near 6 feet by 13 (I'm 5'9", Dh is 6'4") and their interests will change as their exteriors do. However, I'm not going to be the parent that announces one day that it's time to put the dolls away and start behaving like a grownup because they've reached some arbitrary age. How limiting.

Do athiest 12 year olds typically wear heavy eye makeup?

That's freaking funny! I think makeup done well looks good. I'm comfortable with what the girls want to wear as long as they're applying it properly. I've been known to go out with a lot of black eyeliner (think Drew Barrymore in Charlie's Angels), when I'm in a really pissy mood. Makeup can be an excellent mood barometer when applied correctly ETA: neither of them wear makeup now-no interest on their part, I'm still trying to get them to wash random chocolate/dessert/pen marks off their faces at this point. I figure right about when they start getting pimples, the rest of the makeup will follow.

That's cool. Just don't get upset when you are judged because you still play with dolls.

Again, cranky much? I've told the girls that somebody's going to find something to pick on them for, just be prepared with a good comeback. And don't pick on others for their foibles.

 

[RadioNate]

I agree with this. However, I think it is overly judgemental to suggest that a girl who still plays with dolls at 13 has developmental delays. To me, that's like saying that a 13 year old who wears heavy eyeliner is a tramp. One might be less mature than the other, or one might be trying to seem too mature, but neither one is necessarily a negative thing. Using the term "developmental delays" makes it sound like any girl who would play with dolls has a problem and makes it seem like a negative thing, which is certainly not always the case.



I think that must have quite a bit to do with it. Some of the things that people on this thread find normal for a 13 year old would most certainly not be considered normal in my area - and I live in a reasonably sized city, but it obviously isn't as progressive as some areas.

People are a little hung up on the whole "developmental delays" label (and for the record I said: "has something developmentally wrong" I probably should have said, socially immature? ) I know I typed it but sometimes I guess I forget how insanely literal the message board world can be.

Sure, I'd absolutely think it was against the norm. And if one of my friend's 13 year old daughters played with dolls (not simply owned them for display or occasionally played with a younger sibling) on a regular basis, I would wonder if the girl had some social issues. I didn't say mentally challenged or even really mean that there was really something medically wrong with them. I would think they weren't on par with most other 13 year olds. I'd think they were babyish. That doesn't mean that I don't like them or that I think they are bad or whatever, it just isn't my expected norm.

I much more expect a 13 year old to be like the OP described than someone who plays with dolls and is very into Disney, etc.

And girls with eyeliner are tramps. Ok. Whatever. I guess I really don't care too much about what other families think or do. They can wonder and judge all they want.

 

[jrmasm]

Eh, DH bought the AG doll for DD9-if it had come flying down the stairs instead of general grievous I would have been fine with it.

My original point was that kids of any age that participate in creative play should be supported, not looked at as weird. DD10 has no interest in dolls, she has a lot of Schliech animals/fairies that are engaged in bizarre escapades (we started collecting them at the german pavillion at epcot).





Yeah, geeks rule!



Cranky much?


I'm assuming their creative outlets will continue to evolve as they grow older. Finding positive outlets for that creativity is my job as their mom. I'm also guessing that they'll probably be near 6 feet by 13 (I'm 5'9", Dh is 6'4") and their interests will change as their exteriors do. However, I'm not going to be the parent that announces one day that it's time to put the dolls away and start behaving like a grownup because they've reached some arbitrary age. How limiting.




That's freaking funny! I think makeup done well looks good. I'm comfortable with what the girls want to wear as long as they're applying it properly. I've been known to go out with a lot of black eyeliner (think Drew Barrymore in Charlie's Angels), when I'm in a really pissy mood. Makeup can be an excellent mood barometer when applied correctly ETA: neither of them wear makeup now-no interest on their part, I'm still trying to get them to wash random chocolate/dessert/pen marks off their faces at this point. I figure right about when they start getting pimples, the rest of the makeup will follow.



Again, cranky much? I've told the girls that somebody's going to find something to pick on them for, just be prepared with a good comeback. And don't pick on others for their foibles.

Not really. Read much?

The poster I was addressing got ticked off because she felt judged and then immediately turned around and judged others.

Truthfully I don't have a problem with eyeliner or dolls are any age. THAT WAS NEVER THE POINT. Caps for the slower readers.

 

[mjkacmom]

27,000 people is a city to me! We've got 5,000!

I love my small town life, but sometimes I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone instead!

LOL - and we're all squeezed in together in a 3 mile area!

 

[Scurvy]

Not really. Read much?

The poster I was addressing got ticked off because she felt judged and then immediately turned around and judged others.

Truthfully I don't have a problem with eyeliner or dolls are any age. THAT WAS NEVER THE POINT. Caps for the slower readers.

Is that really necessary? It's a shame you had to stoop to personal insults - it just comes across as cranky and defensive, which I suspect (or hope, at least) isn't what you intended to convey.

 

[mjkacmom]

I'm assuming their creative outlets will continue to evolve as they grow older. Finding positive outlets for that creativity is my job as their mom. I'm also guessing that they'll probably be near 6 feet by 13 (I'm 5'9", Dh is 6'4") and their interests will change as their exteriors do. However, I'm not going to be the parent that announces one day that it's time to put the dolls away and start behaving like a grownup because they've reached some arbitrary age. How limiting.

.

Trust me, I did not take her dolls away. My point is that, on their own, they move on to other things, and by 13, it's rare to find dolls to be that creative outlet. BTW, dd13 is currently working on a project in conjunction with her voice coach - they're composing a score to an original musicale. So I'm not worried that she's no longer playing with dolls - she's moved on.