Didn't like movie thrown off plane

[goofy4tink]

"It"? I understand your DH wanting to leave. However, I would not have made the comment the other parent did. By the time kids are in college, they can make their own decisions (with rare exception). However, if that show was in high school, different story.


I can get behind that!

Oh believe me....would have been different in high school. In fact, when we mentioned it to her former high school theatre arts teacher?? He said, and I quote..'Welcome to collegiate theatre!!!!'

Now, airlines...get with the program and give us power at our seats!!!!

 

[Lewisc]

Just the way it is. When we went to college, to see dd perform for the first time, my dh was horrified to find his little girl, sitting on a stage, in a teddy, making 'bedroom noises'..if you catch my drift. The young man seated close to her, was in boxer shorts, making appropriate response noises. It was, well...out there. Dh wanted to run away. When I told another parent about this, he told me that there is no way he would have allowed his dd to continue doing theatre there...that what we had seen had gone quite over the edge into tasteless-ness and she should have been removed from the program. Needless to say she is still in the program and we are (well I am, dh not so much) looking forward to seeing her in Avenue Q at the end of the month. Obviously, different strokes for different folks. Not everyone is going to agree on what's appropriate.

I would have either walked out or closed my eyes and tried not to listen. She'd still be in the program, I'm not sure I would have wanted to watch. Did DD give you a heads up? Either she has a good sense of humor or she thinks Dad is cooler then he (we) are.

I am going to assume that the movie in question did have an airline edit. Was it enough to appease families? No idea. It may be time to stop showing movies at all. Do away with those stupid 'group screens'. They're miserable to watch anyway!!! Put in power at the seats which will in turn allow people to bring their own entertainment. No need to worry about battery life that way. I would do that in a heartbeat if I didn't have to worry about my battery running down. And no, I refuse to buy an extra battery just for flying!!!

I don't think airlines are installing the "group" drop down screens on new aircraft. Individual screens seem to be what's going in new planes. I don't see airlines spending the money to add power into existing planes. Airlines can hope to at offset some of the IFE costs by charging for VoD movies. Probably isn't a way to charge for power ports. Probably one reason why some airlines have power ports in first class and in some of the premium seats.

Airline edits for movies has been an accepted compromise for years. Adults aren't stuck watching a G movie and reasonable parents aren't concerned with their kids watch porn.

I'll speculate the parents had their kids looking forward to watching a movie. It would have been easy to discover the movie being shown and either change the flight or be prepared with activities.

What kind of device? You may be able to get a replacement (internal) batter on ebay for less then you think. You might be able to get an external battery for less then you think.

 

[Lewisc]

Add power ports and even more people will use their own video devices. United says anything up to R is acceptable.

The people complaining about a PG13 movie, edited down to PG or maybe G, won't be happy if a passenger near them is watching a R rated movie or the equivalent HBO original series.

Some people shouldn't fly.

If I want to sleep on a plane I don't ask people near me to turn off their reading light or whatever video screen is illuminating. I put on a sleep mask and noise cancelling headphones. Parents who are (overly) concerned about their kids sneaking a look at another passengers iPad may consider turning flight time into nap time.

 

[Greysword]

Drive, then you can control what your kids watch.

This is a pretty ridiculous notion, as it alienates a large portion of the country. If we drove from Portland, OR to Orlando (or from LAX, Denver, Las Vegas, Albuquerque, Seattle, etc), we'd need to turn around as soon as we got there. If the choice is to drive, be exposed to a movie we don't approve, or just not go then I find that a poor set of options.

The solution is pretty evident, but isn't one of these.

Add power ports and even more people will use their own video devices. United says anything up to R is acceptable.

You know, this brings up a good point. United Airlines has notoriously poor customer service, and has for decades. When I read the FlyerTalk boards, it is astounding how badly UA has alienated a large portion of their frequent flyers, and those same FF have stated that despite the treatment, they most definitely would not want to be a non-elite on the airline due to the extremely poor service the general public receives.

As such when we hear it was UA that diverted, I wasn't surprised since they are horrible anyway. I wish they would clean things up in the customer service area, but the senior management doesn't seem to care, which bleeds into the line staff. As such, I bet the FA didn't like the push-back from the customer, told the pilot the family was out of control, thus causing the diversion. Just for an FA power trip. Reading the FT boards, it has happened before and will happen again.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

I don't think airlines are installing the "group" drop down screens on new aircraft. Individual screens seem to be what's going in new planes. I don't see airlines spending the money to add power into existing planes. Airlines can hope to at offset some of the IFE costs by charging for VoD movies. Probably isn't a way to charge for power ports. Probably one reason why some airlines have power ports in first class and in some of the premium seats.

It depends on the airline.

American is in the process of replacing its workhorse domestic fleet of old MD80 aircraft with new 737-800 aircraft with Boeing's Sky Interior.

These planes have overhead fold-down LCD screens above the center aisle for inflight entertainment, not personal seatback LCD screens. So shared video screens on brand new aircraft are still alive and well, at least on American.

There are 110V power outlets at all 16 first class seats and in 11 of the 24 economy rows (with 4 outlets per row of 6 seats in economy). In the back half of economy, where many of the non-premium seats are located, power outlets are rather sparse.

There's also inflight Wi-Fi with a very limited amount of free content and several fee-based options for web access. It's slow, but it's fine for e-mail, basic web browsing, Facebook, and DISboards. There's also a movie server onboard the aircraft that lets passengers watch pay-per-view movies on their laptops and iPads. (There's not enough bandwidth to stream movies from the ground over the Internet connection.)

There's no charge to use a power outlet, but it's a good business move for American, an airline that primarily serves business travelers. For most business travelers, being able to use a laptop for work (or play) while traveling, without having the battery go dead, is very important. It's a real competitive advantage.

 

[Lewisc]

This is a pretty ridiculous notion, as it alienates a large portion of the country. If we drove from Portland, OR to Orlando (or from LAX, Denver, Las Vegas, Albuquerque, Seattle, etc), we'd need to turn around as soon as we got there. If the choice is to drive, be exposed to a movie we don't approve, or just not go then I find that a poor set of options.

The solution is pretty evident, but isn't one of these.

Parents who don't want their kids exposed to a PG13 movie edited to a PG/G movie need to drive or avoid airlines with pull down screens. You still have the issue of a fellow passenger watching a R rated movie on an iPad. I was taught it's rude to read over someone's shoulder. Parents need to tell their kids it's rude to look at a fellow passengers screen.

It depends on the airline.

American is in the process of replacing its workhorse domestic fleet of old MD80 aircraft with new 737-800 aircraft with Boeing's Sky Interior.

These planes have overhead fold-down LCD screens above the
There are 110V power outlets at all 16 first class seats and in 11 of the 24 economy rows (with 4 outlets per row of 6 seats in economy). In the back half of economy, where many of the non-premium seats are located, power outlets are rather sparse.

I stand corrected on the fold down screens. You confirm my suspicion that power outlets are more likely to be found in the seats available to business fliers.

 

[tinkerbellandeeyor]

Not every family has time to drive for one reason or another that they can fly like a funeral

 

[goofy4tink]

I would have either walked out or closed my eyes and tried not to listen. She'd still be in the program, I'm not sure I would have wanted to watch. Did DD give you a heads up? Either she has a good sense of humor or she thinks Dad is cooler then he (we) are.



I don't think airlines are installing the "group" drop down screens on new aircraft. Individual screens seem to be what's going in new planes. I don't see airlines spending the money to add power into existing planes. Airlines can hope to at offset some of the IFE costs by charging for VoD movies. Probably isn't a way to charge for power ports. Probably one reason why some airlines have power ports in first class and in some of the premium seats.

Airline edits for movies has been an accepted compromise for years. Adults aren't stuck watching a G movie and reasonable parents aren't concerned with their kids watch porn.

I'll speculate the parents had their kids looking forward to watching a movie. It would have been easy to discover the movie being shown and either change the flight or be prepared with activities.

What kind of device? You may be able to get a replacement (internal) batter on ebay for less then you think. You might be able to get an external battery for less then you think.

Oh, she gave me a heads up. But I didn't tell dh figuring he would just sit there and obsess!!! It was pretty funny!! She knew full well how he would react, and he did not disappoint!!!

Just got a new HP laptop...dh is still using it but once he gets a new one from work, I get the laptop!! Will have to get used to Windows 8 and a laptop to boot....used to my desk top but it's a dinosaur!!! Time to move into the 2000's!!!!


If I have my own device, and I choose to watch an R movie, well, I can always turn it so those around me cant' easily watch. I usually sit by the window, so that won't be an issue. But I have to tell you....if I'm watching my own device, and a parent across the aisle or behind me has an issue? Tough. I'm not an 'entitled' person but I have just as much right to watch something, directly in front of me, as someone behind me does to not watch. They don't get to tell me that their child can see through the cracks and I need to stop watching. Nope, not going to happen. I find Barney to be annoying, but I doubt that I'm going to tell the kid across the aisle to stop watching it!!

 

[LocaRoja]

I haven't read through every reply to this thread, but why didn't the parents just take a piece of paper, blanket, or jacket and use it to cover the monitor? If they couldn't fold it up into the ceiling, nearby passengers were agreeable, then get creative and cover it another way?

But I also wanted to ask about this situation I had on a flight recently. A nearby passenger was watching a movie on their IPad, Game of Thrones. So my 6 yo son and I got to see occasional nudity. I don't make a big deal about such with him, but I can see how this could be a touchy thing for some.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

I came across the United entertainment schedule for February 2013:

http://www.united.com/web/format/pdf/travel/inflight/entertainment/films/2013-2-hemi.pdf

The schedule includes this: "MOST FILMS HAVE BEEN EDITED for airline use. However customer discretion is still advised."

Alex Cross is marked with "[T]" for adult themes.

I don't know if other airlines also showed Alex Cross. I did a few quick Google searches, but I didn't find anything either way.

I doubt airlines do their own editing. A few decades ago, there was a company (I think its name was Inflight Services Inc.) that provided movies to most airlines. In today's age of outsourcing, there are probably still outside companies involved.

I haven't watched any version of Alex Cross, and I don't plan to. Perhaps Alex Cross is a movie that should not have been shown on flights, even in an edited form. Or perhaps it was edited to remove all gore, leaving only an early-evening network TV level of violence. I don't know. The family probably didn't know either, but didn't want to take the chance that the extreme violence survived.

Airlines have been showing edited movies for decades. I don't recall ever reading about an incident such as this one in the past. That said, if the pilot had not diverted the flight and offloaded the family, this incident would probably not have made the news either.

 

[Lewisc]

I haven't read through every reply to this thread, but why didn't the parents just take a piece of paper, blanket, or jacket and use it to cover the monitor? If they couldn't fold it up into the ceiling, nearby passengers were agreeable, then get creative and cover it another way?

But I also wanted to ask about this situation I had on a flight recently. A nearby passenger was watching a movie on their IPad, Game of Thrones. So my 6 yo son and I got to see occasional nudity. I don't make a big deal about such with him, but I can see how this could be a touchy thing for some.

YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO TAMPER WITH THE AIRCRAFT. That includes the IFE. You could make that request to a FA. I suspect at least one passenger was watching, or wanted to watch, the movie on that screen. I don't think you could even get a coat or blanket to say on the monitor unless you used tape.

Airlines have been showing edited PG13 movies for years. Parents have dealt with it for years. Avoid those flights, give you kid a video game/video play, give you kid something to do or decide the flight is going to be nap time. Bring a sleep mask. Duct tape (just kidding).

United gives the OK for viewing R rated movies on a personal video play/iPad. Game of Thrones is OK to watch.

 

[MrsNick]

I bet the FA didn't like the push-back from the customer, told the pilot the family was out of control, thus causing the diversion. Just for an FA power trip. Reading the FT boards, it has happened before and will happen again.

I think this is the bigger issue than the actual content onscreen. I've read of other on board incidents where it appears that a member of the flight crew exaggerated or fabricated a "threat."

The flight crew knows that they can call someone a "threat" and there's no consequence if that accusation is frivolous or patently false. I agree that people who are in fact a "threat" should face the law, but shouldn't flight crew who falsely accuse a passenger of being a threat also face legal consequence? I know that on the ground, if I make a false statement to law enforcement, I can be charged with a crime.

There is a lack of objective oversight of the flight crew. First, how is the flight crew qualified to assess what is a threat to the flight? Is there a standard criteria that has to be met to determine a threat? What are those criteria? Does anyone in the crew have special training in threat assessment? Second, is there an impartial third party on board who can verify the accuracy of either the flight crew or the passenger? Or is there a professional and qualified third party on board who can actually assess threats?

Perhaps it's time to install video or audio recorders on flights so passengers have recourse from false accusations, and so flight crew have verification when a passenger is an actual threat, and law enforcement has evidence with which to prosecute.

I've been fortunate so far to have good experiences with flight crews when travelling, but I have to say that I'm really concerned about the lack of recourse for a passenger if he or she is tagged as a "threat."

Even in this thread, some posters seem to have assumed that the parents must have somehow done something wrong. We don't know that. The little bit of reading I've done on the links provided doesn't suggest they necessarily did anything wrong.

The rest of the story here is just window dressing. Personally, I think the person at United who is in charge of IFE dropped the ball. As the director of "Alex Cross" stated, people on board an aircraft do not have the choice to "opt out" of watching IFE.

The airline should consider the entire aircraft a business space. That is what it is. Just like I can't control people behaving inappropriately in a store that I patronize, I can't control what someone else watches on their personal device. However, I would speak up to a store manager if they had policies I disagreed with (if I cared enough, that is. If not, I would cease doing business there). I do know that if a place of business (whether on the ground or in the sky) has content that I find objectionable, I'll mention it (if I care), and how I'm treated by the business will then determine whether I continue to do business there. The main difference in the sky is that I don't have the capability to remove myself from the situation to which I object.

Since Continental merged with United, I've heard lots of feedback from people who flew on United about the horrible service. This is just one more (unverified) example of that. This doesn't put United in a favorable light and I'm likely to consider that when choosing a carrier. But I'm fortunate to have some choices, being in a metropolitan area. Folks in other areas may only have one carrier that serves their larger community. So I don't think it's always productive to tell people to shop around. They may not be able to (just like I don't have a choice in cable TV provider).

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

United gives the OK for viewing R rated movies on a personal video play/iPad. Game of Thrones is OK to watch.

Game of Thrones is not R (a movie rating from the MPAA) but TV-MA (a TV rating).

Theatrical movies are rated by the MPAA as G, PG, PG-13, and NC-17 (which replaced the old X rating in 1990).

Television programs are classified as TV-Y, TV-Y7, TV-G, TV-PG, TV-14, or TV-MA. As the most "adult" classification, TV-MA can include content that the MPAA would rate as NC-17.

Does anyone know United's policy on TV-MA? My guess is that it's not officially allowed.

That said, if a passenger uses a laptop or iPad to watch content that's "adult" because of language or theme, it should not matter to anyone except to the passenger who is wearing the headphones. But if the content is adult because of visual material that many people would find offensive or inappropriate for children, then the laptop/iPad user should have the good sense not to watch it on an airplane where others will see it too. Even then, there a difference between watching it while sitting in a window seat (and angling the screen) or watching it in aisle seat where any passenger returning from the rear restrooms can't help but to see it.

 

[MrsNick]

That said, if a passenger uses a laptop or iPad to watch content that's "adult" because of language or theme, it should not matter to anyone except to the passenger who is wearing the headphones. But if the content is adult because of visual material that many people would find offensive or inappropriate for children, then the laptop/iPad user should have the good sense not to watch it on an airplane where others will see it too. Even then, there a difference between watching it while sitting in a window seat (and angling the screen) or watching it in aisle seat where any passenger returning from the rear restrooms can't help but to see it.

Mostly agree with you. If I had content on a personal device that was visible to a young child and a parent politely asked me to either change it or angle it away I would definitely cooperate.

 

[labdogs42]

That is an extremely violent movie, even edited down. Our kids have seen avengers, Spider-Man, Harry potter, etc but I would not want them watching this, even without headphones!

The parents had a valid argument.

That being said, airplanes should get rid of those monitors. Most people are traveling with their own devices at this point.

agreed.

Here's an interesting (to me at least) article including a interview with the director from 'Alex Cross' AND reaction from another parent who saw the movie on a different flight...

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/from-the-director-of-the-film-that-made-a-pilot-divert-a-plane/274745/

The director said it best. That movie was intended for an audience of people over 13. Showing it wo a captive audience of mixed ages was not right. There is a reason that G movies are for general audiences. That's what should be shown on planes. Or people can watch their own devices. Don't tell me that becuase kids can't hear the movie, they won't notice or be upset by the violent images.

I find it kind of crazy that so many people are saying it was OK to show that movie when I have a feeling these same people would be appalled if they saw an 8 year old in the theater seeing this movie.

 

[ParrotBill]

Everything I've read since this incident supports a reasonable expectation of the family with children and an unreasonable reaction by the pilot and airline.

Hey, I have an idea, how about Congress get that passenger bill of rights going again and add:
- If a plan diverts and delays passengers on authority of the captain or airline due to a passenger situation, the FBI or FAA must investigate and agree the divert was appropriate. If not, refund the fare of all passengers on board.
- If the TSA causes a delay greater than 15 minutes at an airport checkpoint, and this causes the passenger to miss the flight, and they are not arrested, they are entitled to a local police report which can be submitted to the TSA with all costs of the delay to be reimbursed by the TSA.

Maybe they will arrest people for breaking the law instead of protecting their rights and children. Maybe they will fire TSA and airline employees who abuse the rights of citizens of the Paranoid States of America.

 

[C&G'sMama]

This is a pretty ridiculous notion, as it alienates a large portion of the country. If we drove from Portland, OR to Orlando (or from LAX, Denver, Las Vegas, Albuquerque, Seattle, etc), we'd need to turn around as soon as we got there. If the choice is to drive, be exposed to a movie we don't approve, or just not go then I find that a poor set of options.

The solution is pretty evident, but isn't one of these.

My point is that we as parents can't expect the world to cater to families with children all the time. It is our job to decide what we expose our kids to. We've never been to Disneyland as up until 9 months ago we lived on the east coast and we don't fly. We live in the midwest now and it would still be quite a drive. We have driven 2,500 miles round trip to WDW several times. It's our choice.

Quite frankly the movie isn't one I'd have wanted my kids exposed to but it isn't my place to tell everyone else what they can and can't watch. And of course driving down to FL there are plenty of billboards I hope my kids won't see advertising gentlemen clubs and the like. But do I demand the billboards be taken down? No I don't like them but it's the business owner's right to have them there to advertise their business.

That's all I was trying to get to.

 

[Lewisc]

agreed.



The director said it best. That movie was intended for an audience of people over 13. Showing it wo a captive audience of mixed ages was not right. There is a reason that G movies are for general audiences. That's what should be shown on planes. Or people can watch their own devices. Don't tell me that becuase kids can't hear the movie, they won't notice or be upset by the violent images.

I find it kind of crazy that so many people are saying it was OK to show that movie when I have a feeling these same people would be appalled if they saw an 8 year old in the theater seeing this movie.

So many people? Did you count the number of posters who said it was OK to show that movie? The PG13 movie which aired in movie theaters? The version of the movie the director was talking about. The number is ZERO. You don't need a computer, calculator, fingers or toes to count to zero.

United shows edited versions of movies. Movies which have been edited to be the equivalent of PG or even G. I think everyone agrees showing the theatrical version on drop down screens wouldn't be appropriate.

Everything I've read since this incident supports a reasonable expectation of the family with children and an unreasonable reaction by the pilot and airline.

The only thing we've read is the (self-serving) version made by the parents in a letter to the Atlantic Monthly. Same thing no matter how many different newspapers and blogs we read. No real comment from United. No real reports from other passengers. Posters who claim to have knowledge said the parents were trying to force the screen up and made physical contact with a flight attendant.

My point is that we as parents can't expect the world to cater to families with children all the time. It is our job to decide what we expose our kids to. We've never been to Disneyland as up until 9 months ago we lived on the east coast and we don't fly. We live in the midwest now and it would still be quite a drive. We have driven 2,500 miles round trip to WDW several times. It's our choice.

Quite frankly the movie isn't one I'd have wanted my kids exposed to but it isn't my place to tell everyone else what they can and can't watch. And of course driving down to FL there are plenty of billboards I hope my kids won't see advertising gentlemen clubs and the like. But do I demand the billboards be taken down? No I don't like them but it's the business owner's right to have them there to advertise their business.

That's all I was trying to get to.

+1 I hadn't thought of that. You're right, those billboards are a lot more explicit then an edited PG13 movie.

 

[pequele]

Okay...just for the sake of discussion. What do you suggest? Perhaps you would have everyone watch something that you deem okay for your family? Or, perhaps we should do away with IFE altogether. What happens to someone that has their iPad and they are watching something R rated. But you can see it through the crack in the seats, so even though they are in front of you, your child may still be able to see it. Does that person now have to shut it down? Or the person across the aisle? What if they are watching something you would rather your child not see, but that child can, in fact, see from his/her seat. Or sitting at the gate. The situations can go on and on........[ ]


Everyone needs to decide what works for them. BUT.....where is the line for imposing your wants/needs/expectations on others? Others that may not have the same wants/needs/expectations.
I'm just curious what you would do to remedy the issue sam.

Like you say, perhaps perhaps perhaps?

For those who ask where do they draw a line, there is at least a line drawn as seen in the link below. This flight wasn't diverted however, despite a man breaking the law, but a family of 4 asking for a PG13 movie to be turned off does?

Well it does seem they need to draw the line somewhere because YES people who sit around you can still see your own handheld devices! So it isn't just the IFE screens that are an issue here. (Not sure if this link from my phone will work). You see, there IS a point where what you watch on a plane affects those around you. Granted this is a case of broken law, however, even the adults around this man could see his computer screen.

http://m.cbsnews.com/storysynopsis.rbml?pageType=general&catid=57331963&feed_id=999&videofeed=999

 

[goofy4tink]

I haven't read through every reply to this thread, but why didn't the parents just take a piece of paper, blanket, or jacket and use it to cover the monitor? If they couldn't fold it up into the ceiling, nearby passengers were agreeable, then get creative and cover it another way?

But I also wanted to ask about this situation I had on a flight recently. A nearby passenger was watching a movie on their IPad, Game of Thrones. So my 6 yo son and I got to see occasional nudity. I don't make a big deal about such with him, but I can see how this could be a touchy thing for some.

I certainly wouldn't want my 6 y/o watching GoT, but is someone wants to watch it on their iPad, well, I think that's their right. Were you seated right next to him? Was your child? If it bothered you, could you have asked that passenger to turn the iPad so that your ds couldn't see it?
I'm sorry but people get to watch what they want on their personal devices. I have to say that I find people with sound turned way up to be annoying but no one seems to mind that.

YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO TAMPER WITH THE AIRCRAFT. That includes the IFE. You could make that request to a FA. I suspect at least one passenger was watching, or wanted to watch, the movie on that screen. I don't think you could even get a coat or blanket to say on the monitor unless you used tape.

Airlines have been showing edited PG13 movies for years. Parents have dealt with it for years. Avoid those flights, give you kid a video game/video play, give you kid something to do or decide the flight is going to be nap time. Bring a sleep mask. Duct tape (just kidding).

United gives the OK for viewing R rated movies on a personal video play/iPad. Game of Thrones is OK to watch.

Duct tape??? Seriously? You went there? You didn't think I would notice, did you!!! There ya go....a slap up side the head.

Like you say, perhaps perhaps perhaps?

For those who ask where do they draw a line, there is at least a line drawn as seen in the link below. This flight wasn't diverted however, despite a man breaking the law, but a family of 4 asking for a PG13 movie to be turned off does?

Well it does seem they need to draw the line somewhere because YES people who sit around you can still see your own handheld devices! So it isn't just the IFE screens that are an issue here. (Not sure if this link from my phone will work). You see, there IS a point where what you watch on a plane affects those around you. Granted this is a case of broken law, however, even the adults around this man could see his computer screen.

http://m.cbsnews.com/storysynopsis.rbml?pageType=general&catid=57331963&feed_id=999&videofeed=999

Completely different thing. What that guy was watching was illegal. The movies in discussion are not illegal.

All we can ask is that those seated near us will watch appropriate material on their laptops, iPads, etc. If they choose to watch something a bit 'racey' then hopefully, they will do so discreetly so those that shouldn't be watching that stuff won't see it. I would not want my 8 y/o looking at GoT!!! I love the show, but it is a bit out there!!! Not for youngsters.