Did the Pilgrims & Indians have mac and cheese?

[laurie31]

I think I need to read a tad bit slower, I totally missed the "meaning" of this thread! Please disregard the lesson plan on my previous post.

Oh don't apologize! I enjoyed your post! It's always interesting to read how history "really" was versus how we've painted it to be.

And as for mac and cheese:

My recipe is from Southern Living.


8 oz elbow macaroni, cooked according to package directions
1/4 c butter
1/4 c flour
2 c milk
1 t salt
8oz (2cups) shredded sharp Cheddar



In a heavy saucepan, melt butter on low; add flour & stir until smooth. Cook 1minute, stirring constantly. Gradually add milk; cook over medium heat, stirring constantly until thick and bubbly. Stir in salt and cheese until cheese melts.

Add macaroni, and pour into lightly greased 2 qt or 11 X 7 baking dish. Bake 350 for 25-25 minutes or until bubbly.

________________

This is SO creamy and delicious!! I always double the recipe so we are ensured of leftovers.

BTW, I lighten this up by using skim milk and fat free sharp cheddar. No one can tell the difference!

 

[CathrynRose]

Sure it is.

As was breakfast sausage, because my son really likes that, too.

 

[GeorgeG]

I think traditions are whatever you make them. Two items that we consider traditional are mashed (or some other form) potatos and cranberries. I'd have to go back and do the research for when, but for centuries both were considered poison. If I remember correctly, potatos were only considered safe if the were completely mashed or pulverized or cooked quickly at a very high temperature (fries, anyone?) and cranberries became edible only when mixed with sugar.

Personally, I like my turkey with mashed potatos and stuffing, but I could be happy with hot dogs on the grill.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

I can't believe everyone has left out the most important component: turkey jello!

 

[MizTink]

Ewwww......
that looks gross!!!!!
but pomegranates are delicious!

 

[EMom]

The Pilgrims' MenuFoods That May Have Been on the Menu
Seafood: Cod, Eel, Clams, Lobster
Wild Fowl: Wild Turkey, Goose, Duck, Crane, Swan, Partridge, Eagles
Meat: Venison, Seal
Grain: Wheat Flour, Indian Corn
Vegetables: Pumpkin, Peas, Beans, Onions, Lettuce, Radishes, Carrots
Fruit: Plums, Grapes
Nuts: Walnuts, Chestnuts, Acorns
Herbs and Seasonings: Olive Oil, Liverwort, Leeks, Dried Currants, Parsnips

What Was Not on the MenuSurprisingly, the following foods, all considered staples of the modern Thanksgiving meal, didn't appear on the pilgrims's first feast table:
Ham: There is no evidence that the colonists had butchered a pig by this time, though they had brought pigs with them from England.
Sweet Potatoes/Potatoes: These were not common.
Corn on the Cob: Corn was kept dried out at this time of year.
Cranberry Sauce: The colonists had cranberries but no sugar at this time.
Pumpkin Pie: It's not a recipe that exists at this point, though the pilgrims had recipes for stewed pumpkin.
Chicken/Eggs: We know that the colonists brought hens with them from England, but it's unknown how many they had left at this point or whether the hens were still laying.
Milk: No cows had been aboard the Mayflower, though it's possible that the colonists used goat milk to make cheese.
Source: Kathleen Curtin, Food Historian at Plimoth Plantation.

quoted from History.com

My ancestors came over on The Mayflower. No matter what is recorded in the history books, I promise you, it is in our genetic code to butcher and eat piggies. Somewhere in the vicinity of that first Thanksgiving meal, a pig gave its life for my family's dining pleasure.

And the next morning, they had bacon.

 

[NMAmy]

I'm not from the South and we always had macaroni and cheese as a side dish at Thanksgiving. Of course, we also had stuffed grape leaves along with turkey, potatoes, etc. I'd much rather eat either of those dishes than sweet potatoes.

My parents felt that you should make everyone's favorite foods at the holidays. I could never be thankful for sweet potatoes.

 

[wendy46001]

I'm from Alabama, and we've always had macaroni and cheese at Thanksgiving. Maybe it's a Southern thing? But then again, at most restaurants down here, macaroni and cheese is listed as a vegetable on the menu. Go figure!

Mac n cheese in our house too. Well we added it when the kids took over making dinner from the parents about 10years ago. It took the place of the cream spinach that only my mother liked...

and yup list we consider it a vegetable

 

[Jennasis]

Mac and cheese was never on our T-Day table but it was on a few friends. I think part of why it wasn't a tradition for us was because mom always tried to keep the carb load to a dull roar.

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

No mac and cheese for us.

We do:
Turkey
mashed potatoes or mashed turnips (depends on who is cooking)
sweet potatoes
green been casserole
stuffing
broccoli
corn (little ones really eat this)
rolls

We also usually have a fruit cup appetizer. Not sure why but something my DM started years ago to replace the lasagna "appetizer" my DGM used to make all the time. Gotta love those Italian grandmothers. They are the only women in the world that consider stuffed shells or lasagna an appetizer to the main meal.

 

[Wall-E1]

We were arguing at work today whether mashed potatoes are a "traditional" Thanksgiving food! I said of course they are, but a few people demanded it was NOT traditional and they'd never had it on Thanksgiving. I asked what they have and they said macaroni and cheese.

I have never heard of having macaroni and cheese for Thanksgiving. Now I don't know if they had potatoes at the first Thanksgiving, but I can say with confidence they did NOT have macaroni and cheese!

Ok so my question is, which is more traditional mashed potatoes or macaroni and cheese?

I believe the pilgrims did have mac and cheese at the first Thanksgiving. They, in fact, used boxed Kraft mac and cheese with the powdered cheese. You can't get much more traditional than that. Today, we still enjoy the same brand mac and cheese that the pilgrims feasted on.

On a side note, who here loves when you get a glob of undissolved powdered cheese, while eating your Kraft mac? Is there anything better in life?

 

[pjlla]

I believe the pilgrims did have mac and cheese at the first Thanksgiving. They, in fact, used boxed Kraft mac and cheese with the powdered cheese. You can't get much more traditional than that. Today, we still enjoy the same brand mac and cheese that the pilgrims feasted on.

On a side note, who here loves when you get a glob of undissolved powdered cheese, while eating your Kraft mac? Is there anything better in life?

SERIOUSLY?? EWWWW! ..........P

 

[Wall-E1]

SERIOUSLY?? EWWWW! ..........P

You must never have experienced the pure joy that comes when you bite into a forkful of Kraft mac and cheese and are subjected to the unexpected burst of pure cheesy, goodness that explodes in your mouth, when one of these undissolved powdered cheese balls pop. It is pure ecstasy.

 

[clarabelle]

Meh -these things are regional. I never knew that people had appetizers at Thanksgiving (we never did) or pasta -like baked ziti -which I understand Italian Americans do.
I think it has a lot to with socioeconomic levels, national origin etc...

Whatever works for you and your family is ok with me!

 

[Becky2005]

You mean my mom is traditional & we didn't know it??????????????????????

We never had mac & cheese growing up with Thanksgiving. However, somehow all my kids & my niece/nephew ALL love "Grandma's Mac & Cheese" -- we don't even know when it started but for every single holiday now she is required to bring her Mac & Cheese. The funniest thing is it's nothing special, no secret recipe or anything (it's not from a box though)...just Grandma's touch I guess. Therefore, we will be having Mac & Cheese along with Mashed Potatoes.

I thought we were the odd group having mac & cheese on our Thanksgiving menu.

My vote is the mashed potatoes are the traditional one (have you ever seen a TV ad with mac & cheese in the spread? OR if you are buying a pre-made version, the side is mashed potatoes NOT mac & cheese!)

Now, who knows what they had at the original feast, probably stuff completely different than what we have. I'm pretty sure they didn't have jellied cranberry sauce from a can.

 

[GEM]

I was born and raised in the south and still live here and I've never seen or heard of mac and cheese being a "traditional" Thanksgiving food.

We always have turkey and dressing, mashed potatoes and gravy, cranberry sauce, sweet potatoes with marshmellows, rolls, green bean casserole, and pumpkin pie for dessert.

And, really, the MOST important thing in our family is the green bean casserole...you know, with the french fried onions on top...that REALLY says Thanksgiving!

 

[3boymthr]

And the best part is of course this is all traditional because:

1. What do you mean by the myth of "The First Thanksgiving?"

Although the gathering which took place between the English colonists and the Wampanoag in the autumn of 1621 in Patuxet/New Plymouth has become known as "The First Thanksgiving," it would not have been considered a thanksgiving by the people involved. Not only was it not a "thanksgiving," but also it was also not a "first!" Native Peoples all over this continent have given daily thanks to their Creator for thousands of years. Likewise, celebrating days of thanksgiving was a familiar tradition for the Europeans who eventually colonized North America.
There are many other aspects of the Thanksgiving holiday as it is celebrated today that are based on misunderstandings and misrepresentations of the 1621 event. From the one long banquet table, to the turkey and cranberry sauce on top of it, the exhibit Thanksgiving: Memory, Myth & Meaning examines popular images and myths of Thanksgiving in greater depth and from multiple perspectives. We encourage you to spend some time there.

From the plymouth plantation website.

 

[legalsea]

If my wife thought she could get away with it, she would stuff the turkey with mac n’ cheese.

Interestingly, one of my ancestors was at that famous Thanksgiving meal, Cotton Mather Legalsea, and he even wrote down what they had, with the letter being carefully preserved over the generations; Cotton was writing to his creditors back in London:

To Satan’s Brood:

It is with utmost regret that I fynd I am in a peculiar situation and so cannot remit to thou bloodsuckers the King’s Coin which You have been Promise by Me before I boarded the Shipp; I do Hope that You Leeches saw me Waving to You as we quitted the Shores of Plymouth. Should You Foule Servantes of Darkness find yeself in My area of this World do looke me Up and I shall pay my Debt with the Utmost promptness. If I am not In when You creep upon these Shores be pleased to Wait until my Return.

We Pilgrims (for thus the Captaine has taken to calling ourselfs, whereas I suggested “Supreme OverLords of All We Survey”), had Occasion to Sit and Dine with the Local Peoples Whom Calle themselves “The Blessed People of This Most Abundant Land” (which we shortened to Indian), and had a Feaste of Unparallel Delight. It is My Thought that, since you and your Satanic Brothers have been disappointed by the Lack of Coin you would be satisfied to read of what we Partook of at the Feaste. I had been Seated at a spot next to the Poop Pit, which I was assured was the Best Seat available.

The Feaste mainly consisted of Fowle of the Land. I cannot heartily recommend the Crow, since it Tasted As bitter as one would Imagine Crow to taste, but the Sparrow Fitted nicely in the Mouth with a Pleasing Crunch. The Indians did bring a Deere which they Roasted over the communal Fire, of which I had a hoof; they did Assure Me it was the Best Part of the Animal. We also Ate of the Fish of the Sea, of a species Unknown but Called Su-shee by the Indians. I do Wishe the Su-shee had been Cooked, and, lacking that, at least Gutted. I only Wishe that You and Yours could have eaten of it.

The Indians also served a Dish called “bees and cheese” which was as Foule as It sounds. The Cheese was rather Pleasing, but a Substitute Must be found for the bees.

We also had what these Savages called Appetizers consisting of Various Roots pulled from the very Dirt under our Feet and served on a Large Plate with instructtions to Dip said Roots into a Foul mixture that was called Dippe. No One Ate of These and it sat Untouched.

I did Excuse Myself prior to Dessert (which I believe consisted of Mice on a Sticke) and so did please myself by Not Offering a “tippe” to these Indians for the Foule Feast. I believe a Warrant has been Issued for my Failure to “tippe” so I Shall sign Off now as I am Traveling Quickly to Another Locale that I Hope and Praye has Better Food.

Cotton Mather Legalsea
November 1621

 

[irishbosoxfan]

If my wife thought she could get away with it, she would stuff the turkey with mac n’ cheese.

Interestingly, one of my ancestors was at that famous Thanksgiving meal, Cotton Mather Legalsea, and he even wrote down what they had, with the letter being carefully preserved over the generations; Cotton was writing to his creditors back in London:

To Satan’s Brood:

It is with utmost regret that I fynd I am in a peculiar situation and so cannot remit to thou bloodsuckers the King’s Coin which You have been Promise by Me before I boarded the Shipp; I do Hope that You Leeches saw me Waving to You as we quitted the Shores of Plymouth. Should You Foule Servantes of Darkness find yeself in My area of this World do looke me Up and I shall pay my Debt with the Utmost promptness. If I am not In when You creep upon these Shores be pleased to Wait until my Return.

We Pilgrims (for thus the Captaine has taken to calling ourselfs, whereas I suggested “Supreme OverLords of All We Survey”), had Occasion to Sit and Dine with the Local Peoples Whom Calle themselves “The Blessed People of This Most Abundant Land” (which we shortened to Indian), and had a Feaste of Unparallel Delight. It is My Thought that, since you and your Satanic Brothers have been disappointed by the Lack of Coin you would be satisfied to read of what we Partook of at the Feaste. I had been Seated at a spot next to the Poop Pit, which I was assured was the Best Seat available.

The Feaste mainly consisted of Fowle of the Land. I cannot heartily recommend the Crow, since it Tasted As bitter as one would Imagine Crow to taste, but the Sparrow Fitted nicely in the Mouth with a Pleasing Crunch. The Indians did bring a Deere which they Roasted over the communal Fire, of which I had a hoof; they did Assure Me it was the Best Part of the Animal. We also Ate of the Fish of the Sea, of a species Unknown but Called Su-shee by the Indians. I do Wishe the Su-shee had been Cooked, and, lacking that, at least Gutted. I only Wishe that You and Yours could have eaten of it.

The Indians also served a Dish called “bees and cheese” which was as Foule as It sounds. The Cheese was rather Pleasing, but a Substitute Must be found for the bees.

We also had what these Savages called Appetizers consisting of Various Roots pulled from the very Dirt under our Feet and served on a Large Plate with instructtions to Dip said Roots into a Foul mixture that was called Dippe. No One Ate of These and it sat Untouched.

I did Excuse Myself prior to Dessert (which I believe consisted of Mice on a Sticke) and so did please myself by Not Offering a “tippe” to these Indians for the Foule Feast. I believe a Warrant has been Issued for my Failure to “tippe” so I Shall sign Off now as I am Traveling Quickly to Another Locale that I Hope and Praye has Better Food.

Cotton Mather Legalsea
November 1621

 

[diznygirl]

Oh joy! In honor of Legalsea's ancestor I shall enjoy some Mice on a Stick on Thanksgiving!