Did Genie/ Lightning Lane work?

[Aluminum Falcon]

Let me preface this by saying that this thought was brought to mind after Touring Plans sent a blast email out about an upcoming trip downgrading crowd levels for most parks on most days. They specifically mention that they do not believe foot traffic is down, but wait times are in a big way (at least enough to reforecast). They have also illustrated that they are going to be addressing the crowd calendars because the 1-10 scale they have been using is no longer a good gauge

My thought is that we finally have a good enough picture of Lightning Lane and how it has changed dynamics in the parks specifically tied to wait times. What say you?

 

[Kooks and Bay Bay]

I think people's priorities have changed.

Most people used to be all about rides/attractions.
Especially in recent years I've seen a huge shift to people prioritizing food and merch.

I think the lower wait times are more reflective of that shift rather than LLMP/LLSP/LLPP "working".

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I think people's priorities have changed.

Most people used to be all about rides/attractions.
Especially in recent years I've seen a huge shift to people prioritizing food and merch.

I think the lower wait times are more reflective of that shift rather than LLMP/LLSP/LLPP "working".

To me, that type of shift doesn't make a lot of sense. I would counter that by saying that it would be a wild move to pay that much of an entry price to essentially go to the "Disney Mall" for lack of a better term. I would also argue that you can get Disney food without going into the parks, the hotels have much better options than the parks.

 

[Minnie1222]

I can only add our personal experiences. The LLMP, PP, and especially SP have been working so well that we now have the extra time to enjoy shopping, dining, and lounging. Gone is the era where we had to add extra hours or even days to a trip to increase our chance of riding a new attraction. The cost is higher but the trips have been more relaxing. We're waiting in line less and lounging around more.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

I think the fact that Disney has evolved from no FP, to original FP, to FP+, to Genie+, to LLMP/SP/PP indicates it's popular with at least most of the guests, and has been tweaked to benefit the guests - and to definitely benefit Disney! We preferred each version over the previous version, except for G+ to LLMP/SP/PP. There are aspects of the latest LL that we like - like choosing a few days in advance and picking an actual time window. But it's less helpful for us because we're not rope drop folks, so we probably don't get as many attractions out of it throughout the days we buy it. G+ actually was more useful to us. But we've adjusted with each change, including this one! We buy it/use it more than we don't.....

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I can only add our personal experiences. The LLMP, PP, and especially SP have been working so well that we now have the extra time to enjoy shopping, dining, and lounging. Gone is the era where we had to add extra hours or even days to a trip to increase our chance of riding a new attraction. The cost is higher but the trips have been more relaxing. We're waiting in line less and lounging around more.

Personally, i feel like it makes everything a lot more efficient. First and foremost, not everyone in the parks is using it (like with FP+). I think because of that the standby lines move in a much more uniform way (call it predictable patterns). not a crazy amount of FP+ users all coming at once and making essentially another standby line.

I don't know how much the planner helps within the app and would guess that it makes a minuet difference, but if it does helps curb crowds in different directions at all it is a win in my book

Essentially, I believe that scaling back on who can skip the lines has made a drastic impact on wait times overall.

 

[Kooks and Bay Bay]

To me, that type of shift doesn't make a lot of sense. I would counter that by saying that it would be a wild move to pay that much of an entry price to essentially go to the "Disney Mall" for lack of a better term. I would also argue that you can get Disney food without going into the parks, the hotels have much better options than the parks.

It may not seem logical but I do believe its true.
There are many viral souvenirs and snacks that are in park exclusives and limited releases.
To me this all started shifting with Instagram's popularity. The Purple Wall and then Millennial Pink became all the rage and then it all spiraled.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I think the fact that Disney has evolved from no FP, to original FP, to FP+, to Genie+, to LLMP/SP/PP indicates it's popular with at least most of the guests, and has been tweaked to benefit the guests - and to definitely benefit Disney! We preferred each version over the previous version, except for G+ to LLMP/SP/PP. There are aspects of the latest LL that we like - like choosing a few days in advance and picking an actual time window. But it's less helpful for us because we're not rope drop folks, so we probably don't get as many attractions out of it throughout the days we buy it. G+ actually was more useful to us. But we've adjusted with each change, including this one! We buy it/use it more than we don't.....

Personally, I think it not having wide appeal with users is actually a good thing. The FP+ was too generous and caused issues because of that. Offering a more limited product with a price tag dramatically drops the amount of people using it and helps everyone because of it

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

It may not seem logical but I do believe its true.
There are many viral souvenirs and snacks that are in park exclusives and limited releases.
To me this all started shifting with Instagram's popularity. The Purple Wall and then Millennial Pink became all the rage and then it all spiraled.

I agree about product going viral, but you could always get your hands on it (looking at you ebay). maybe that is a driver for locals but i cannot see many planning specific trips just for the merch and food. Locals, and Hardos (self included) you may have a better case with, but for the casual family looking to check Disney off a list (which is the majority of guests esp at WDW), not so much

 

[jkh36619]

Purely Anecdotal, but I think the age of the average Disney fan in increasing. To kids today, Disney doesn't mean what it did to my generation. So as we age, it's less about ride ride ride.

 

[Sparrow'sLady]

To me, that type of shift doesn't make a lot of sense. I would counter that by saying that it would be a wild move to pay that much of an entry price to essentially go to the "Disney Mall" for lack of a better term. I would also argue that you can get Disney food without going into the parks, the hotels have much better options than the parks.

I was thinking the same. A park ticket is a hefty price to pay for a bunch of greasy fast food and a few sit-down dining choices. There are much better options at hotels and to be honest, outside of the WDW bubble.

 

[Sparrow'sLady]

Purely Anecdotal, but I think the age of the average Disney fan in increasing. To kids today, Disney doesn't mean what it did to my generation. So as we age, it's less about ride ride ride.

Not to mention, affordability.

 

[Chuck S]

I think people's priorities have changed.

Most people used to be all about rides/attractions.
Especially in recent years I've seen a huge shift to people prioritizing food and merch.

I think the lower wait times are more reflective of that shift rather than LLMP/LLSP/LLPP "working".

This may be true for a couple reasons. Lighting Lanes are a factor, but also all the Bloggers that seem to focus on dining reviews and merch, rather than rides and attractions.

 

[DodgerGirl]

When Disney Parks launched Genie+ people thought that it was an updated version of the E-Ticket system because this was thought to save people time on waiting in long lines for rides. But when you look at it from a different vision Disney Parks had always wanted to experiment with new ways for people to experience rides shows and even character meet and greets without having to wait in long lines especially if you are a family with young children who get cranky and tired and have to wait in long lines for anything the Genie+ was born. But I think when Disneyland no longer had Fastpass Disneyland themselves wanted to launch a Genie+ system of their own because seeing how it worked in Walt Disney World Disneyland followed suit. But in my eyes I don't think Genie+/Lightning Lane is even worth it to families because you pay extra to skip the long line and what if the ride you select with Genie+/Lightning Lane breaks down or is out of order? What can you do? What Disney Parks should've done is revive the Fastpass system because that was a simple way to use. But I agree in all honesty most families do not always ride park rides mainly because the kids are too little and they save rides for when the kids are older and little kids are more interested in meeting Disney characters than riding rides. But I also think that the Genie+/Lightning Lane system has affected the prices of both Disneyland and Walt Disney World tickets. But I think this is Disney Parks's weakest link in it's history

 

[Chuck S]

Personally, I think the current incarnation is pretty close to the old FP+ system, allowing onsite guests to book 3 rides in advance, which allows you to plan your favorite rides around table service dining times. I just wonder if, like the FP+ system (since it was free) would bring in more $ if it was priced less, like $25 for the regular ones and $15 for the individual lightning lanes, increasing the volume some of people using it. Especially the individual LLs, the lines were pretty empty for those when I used them during my last trip. And yes, I know the idea on the individual at that price is to get on right away, but would they make more money at $15 if the wait times were maybe 10 to 15 minutes instead of pretty instantly? Or would there be increased incentive to stay at their Deluxe hotels if Deluxe and DVC got the regular one for $10 pp? Would it help sell DVC, would it fill Deluxe rooms up without having to do the rather than "Free DIning." promotions?

 

[Kooks and Bay Bay]

This may be true for a couple reasons. Lighting Lanes are a factor, but also all the Bloggers that seem to focus on dining reviews and merch, rather than rides and attractions.

Yes I believe because of those guests that has shifted your average guest towards prioritizing those things because they saw those reviews.
I know I've been influenced by a few. I'm getting the Milkshake at Sunshine Seasons because of seeing a video of someone reviewing it.
However for me that's just a micro part of my trips. I still prioritize rides.

 

[KPeterso]

But in my eyes I don't think Genie+/Lightning Lane is even worth it to families because you pay extra to skip the long line and what if the ride you select with Genie+/Lightning Lane breaks down or is out of order? What can you do?

If a ride is down during your LL time, it turns into a Multi Experience (MP) pass. This will allow you to use it for another ride or to save it to ride the ride later. And you can select a new LL most of the time once it turns into a MP. MPs are great as they are tiered so sometimes if it is a tier 1 ride, you can use it for a better ride than what was originally booked.

And in the case of Single Pass... I was at Epcot trying to ride Guardians before heading home at the end of a trip before heading to the airport and it was down all day. I just stopped at a guest services umbrella and said it was down and I was going to need to be heading out for my flight home and they refunded me on the single pass for the day.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Yes I believe because of those guests that has shifted your average guest towards prioritizing those things because they saw those reviews.
I know I've been influenced by a few. I'm getting the Milkshake at Sunshine Seasons because of seeing a video of someone reviewing it.
However for me that's just a micro part of my trips. I still prioritize rides.

yeah I agree there is an impact there, but i would be shocked if someone spent an entire vacation dedicated to food and merch. Maybe 2-3 hours out of a full 8 hour day at max.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

If a ride is down during your LL time, it turns into a Multi Experience (MP) pass. This will allow you to use it for another ride or to save it to ride the ride later. And you can select a new LL most of the time once it turns into a MP. MPs are great as they are tiered so sometimes if it is a tier 1 ride, you can use it for a better ride than what was originally booked.

And in the case of Single Pass... I was at Epcot trying to ride Guardians before heading home at the end of a trip before heading to the airport and it was down all day. I just stopped at a guest services umbrella and said it was down and I was going to need to be heading out for my flight home and they refunded me on the single pass for the day.

i feel like there is a lot of reluctance to say the LL "works". my thought is that the price point is where people are most upset and can't move that to the sidelines to judge the actual product

 

[KPeterso]

i feel like there is a lot of reluctance to say the LL "works". my thought is that the price point is where people are most upset and can't move that to the sidelines to judge the actual product

I can get that. I have been using MPLL for awhile now. I am a local at Disneyland and go fairly regularly and depending on the time I arrive, I often buy MPLL (I skip often if I am coming in the evening as it is not worth it then).

The problem with the poster I quoted is that she has not been to DL (or WDW) since 2004. She has not used any of the iterations of FP+, MaxPass, Genie +, or MPLL, so her giving thoughts on it is not really a fair assessment. She does not understand the nuances and what actually happens if a ride is down. I have used all of them (plus DAS) and I have a fairly good idea what worked and didn't with each one. Honestly, none feel all that different to me. I like MPLL at WDW as I can prebook some rides to better plan my day, whereas at Disneyland it does feel a fairer playing field as no one can book until they enter the park.