Details on Universal's Volcano Bay

[TwoMisfits]

Agreed that it will probably become the most popular water park, but it's still a water park IMHO. I think it looks neat, and I'd like to spend a day or less here, but I'm not going to make multiple visits or forgo main parks on a shorter trip.

I get that Magic Bands are intrinsically linked to FPP, and 60 day booking isn't stress-free, but it's interesting that the band concept is often reviled at WDW and welcomed here.

1. They are offering them free
2. They are offering them and allowing zero planning and yet also zero lines
3. They actually are offering "extras" with band usage (and did I mention free)

Offsite and onsite get the same perks and have zero work/scheduling worries with them. Also, Universal isn't stupid. They probably watched all the issues Disney's had with them and asked themselves, how do we fix them all. With their plans, there is no, "what if I'm running late at my hotel and miss my ride" or "what if it rains, I'm screwed" or "what if I get sick that day" or "what if I want a last minute trip - am I screwed" or "I'm offsite - do I have a chance at any of the new stuff", etc. How could their plan not be more popular than Disney's? Apart from the privacy issue (still probably on these bands), I think they solved the biggest problems...thus, the better feedback...

 

[rteetz]

1. They are offering them free
2. They are offering them and allowing zero planning and yet also zero lines
3. They actually are offering "extras" with band usage (and did I mention free)

Offsite and onsite get the same perks and have zero work/scheduling worries with them. Also, Universal isn't stupid. They probably watched all the issues Disney's had with them and asked themselves, how do we fix them all. With their plans, there is no, "what if I'm running late at my hotel and miss my ride" or "what if it rains, I'm screwed" or "what if I get sick that day" or "what if I want a last minute trip - am I screwed" or "I'm offsite - do I have a chance at any of the new stuff", etc. How could their plan not be more popular than Disney's? Apart from the privacy issue (still probably on these bands), I think they solved the biggest problems...thus, the better feedback...

I'm sure there won't be zero planning. Usually everyone has some sort of plan whether it's FPs 60 days in advance or what you want to eat, or which water slide/ride you want to do next. Of course it's less planning but I don't know if any vacation destination involves zero planning. We also don't really know how this zero line thing will work. My guess is there will still be some sort of line, yes you have a virtual queue but that's likely going to act more like a fastpass or express pass, you get up there with minimal to no wait, so I think it's too early to assume zero lines whatsoever.

 

[atricks]

Agreed that it will probably become the most popular water park, but it's still a water park IMHO. I think it looks neat, and I'd like to spend a day or less here, but I'm not going to make multiple visits or forgo main parks on a shorter trip.

I get that Magic Bands are intrinsically linked to FPP, and 60 day booking isn't stress-free, but it's interesting that the band concept is often reviled at WDW and welcomed here.

It's the pre-planning/booking (strict scheduling) that people don't like, not so much the bands itself. It's particularly bad if something beyond your control forces you to miss your time (those with little kids) or you meet up with friends or family (And aren't 100% super coordinated) and can't mix because someone didn't reserve things 60 days ahead of time.

The Volcano Bay one is just a way to reserve a spot in line, no massive planning required to actually use it.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I'm sure there won't be zero planning. Usually everyone has some sort of plan whether it's FPs 60 days in advance or what you want to eat, or which water slide/ride you want to do next. Of course it's less planning but I don't know if any vacation destination involves zero planning. We also don't really know how this zero line thing will work. My guess is there will still be some sort of line, yes you have a virtual queue but that's likely going to act more like a fastpass or express pass, you get up there with minimal to no wait, so I think it's too early to assume zero lines whatsoever.

Fully agree we need to see how this works out in real life. If it works out great then that is awesome and hopefully Disney can take a lesson learned from it as well - but everything sounds amazing in a press release

Also, the other Universal Park shave Express pass which you pay for (either as an extra charge for staying in a deluxe resort) - do we know if Volcano Bay will have an express pass as well?

 

[To the honeypots]

1. They are offering them free
2. They are offering them and allowing zero planning and yet also zero lines
3. They actually are offering "extras" with band usage (and did I mention free)

Offsite and onsite get the same perks and have zero work/scheduling worries with them. Also, Universal isn't stupid. They probably watched all the issues Disney's had with them and asked themselves, how do we fix them all. With their plans, there is no, "what if I'm running late at my hotel and miss my ride" or "what if it rains, I'm screwed" or "what if I get sick that day" or "what if I want a last minute trip - am I screwed" or "I'm offsite - do I have a chance at any of the new stuff", etc. How could their plan not be more popular than Disney's? Apart from the privacy issue (still probably on these bands), I think they solved the biggest problems...thus, the better feedback...

I am hoping it works well but I worry it will be a matter of you now have to rope drop the water park or risk getting a time slot 5 hours later.

 

[TwoMisfits]

I am hoping it works well but I worry it will be a matter of you now have to rope drop the water park or risk getting a time slot 5 hours later.

But unlike theme parks, water parks are designed with normal pools, wave pools, lazy rivers, active play areas, and lounge chairs you can enjoy before your slide. Rather than standing 90 minutes soaking wet on steps, you can swim for 80 of them and then hop in line to try the slide. That kinda water park is almost priceless to me if the big stuff is good...

I am a current Aquatica convert - only waterpark I go to in Orlando - but I admit, if this works as advertised, I will reconvert to this one...

 

[twebber55]

I mean Volcano Bay looks neat, don't get me wrong. But at the end of the day it's still a water park. They're calling it their third gate and trying to say it's a Water Theme Park, but it's not a third gate in my opinion. If it's a third gate, then Disney has six gates with their two water parks. The bands are neat and I like the fact that it's a virtual quene but I just don't see this being the game changer that Universal expects. Sure, people will go, but they may go here instead of Blizzard Beach or Typhoon Lagoon. I don't see this drawing anyone away form the four main parks at Walt Disney World.

All great points
Although its not really about drawing people away disney as much as it is keeping them on property for an extra day

 

[Josh Hendy]

Besides the interesting question of whether V.B. is a third or a second-and-a-half park, what is really significant to me is the construction schedule. A huge park equivalent in size Avatar land, Star Wars Land and Toy Story land combined, due to be completed in just a little over two years from the first announcement.

I know that a certain amount of design work took place before the announcement, but the same is true of the WDW lands. We're talking about a two year average construction time for major projects at Uni, and something like 4 years for Dis. And this is during a period when Comcast is also suffering from cord cutting and has far less internal cash flow generated from theme park operations.

I conclude that Disney's slowness is 100% due to internal business strategies and priorities and 0% due to the need for careful planning and imagineering, the need for infrastructure improvements, availability of labor in Central FL and all the other excuses which have been put forward in their defense.

Leveraging the extreme loyalty of their customer base? Or playing them for fools ...

 

[AtlantaDisneyDreamer]

But unlike theme parks, water parks are designed with normal pools, wave pools, lazy rivers, active play areas, and lounge chairs you can enjoy before your slide. Rather than standing 90 minutes soaking wet on steps, you can swim for 80 of them and then hop in line to try the slide. That kinda water park is almost priceless to me if the big stuff is good...

I am a current Aquatica convert - only waterpark I go to in Orlando - but I admit, if this works as advertised, I will reconvert to this one...

I keep trying to figure out how it CAN work as advertised.

The problem parks always have with reserved systems is ride capacity. I have never seen a published daily ride capacity that could accommodate most guests. Most rides seem to have a daily ride capacity between 5% and 30% of park capacity. Even with some guests being too short for rides and some choosing not to ride them, I don't see how the park can eliminate wait times without requiring lots of pre-planning and without requiring people to choose between rides rather than being to ride everything with no wait. The other areas of the park, like the wave pools and beach areas, will have to be huge to accommodate all of those guests would normally otherwise be standing in line.

I really hope they can do it, and I look forward to seeing how they try. I hope there is not a lot of disappointment because at this point, they are making big promises with no lines.

 

[Josh Hendy]

I keep trying to figure out how it CAN work as advertised.

...

I really hope they can do it, and I look forward to seeing how they try. I hope there is not a lot of disappointment because at this point, they are making big promises with no lines.

I suppose that they're not eliminating the queue but just making it virtual - so that you're waiting on a chair in the shade or riding the lazy river instead of standing in the hot sun inching up the steps to the top of of the water slide. Sort of like the electronic paging system used at restaurants and for some low-capacity rides like Dumbo.

In a way, it's ride rationing just like FP+, but without the perceived (by some) disadvantages of the stress and unfairness of access to early booking. Not to mention the disadvantages of the tremendous cost and complexity of database and web programming, providing reliable wi-fi, dealing with computer glitches and so on.

Whereas Disney was trying to hit a gigantic home run out of the park with ride rationing, queue elimination, labor reduction, steering people into profitable gift shops, incentivizing on-site guests, massively linking diverse databases and other computer systems, and so on ... I hope that Universal is being a bit more cautious and prudent by simply trying to reduce the biggest downside to most waterparks, namely, standing for hours in the hot sun queuing for a relatively small number of rides on the headliner attractions.

 

[Roxyfire]

I keep trying to figure out how it CAN work as advertised.

The problem parks always have with reserved systems is ride capacity. I have never seen a published daily ride capacity that could accommodate most guests. Most rides seem to have a daily ride capacity between 5% and 30% of park capacity. Even with some guests being too short for rides and some choosing not to ride them, I don't see how the park can eliminate wait times without requiring lots of pre-planning and without requiring people to choose between rides rather than being to ride everything with no wait. The other areas of the park, like the wave pools and beach areas, will have to be huge to accommodate all of those guests would normally otherwise be standing in line.

I really hope they can do it, and I look forward to seeing how they try. I hope there is not a lot of disappointment because at this point, they are making big promises with no lines.

Definitely important to have measured expectations. I can see people getting frustrated fast if they "tap in" but don't get an estimate as to when they might be able to return or any return notification for a couple hours.

 

[Alicefan]

And I have confidence avatar will do just that.

If only Avatar was the least bit appealing to the general public. Could they have picked any more of a subject to hastily become outdated? It already IS. I'm sorry, but that franchise doesn't have the staying power that they're hoping IMO. Talk about grasping at the first thing to come along trying to compete with HP. The only thing I can say that I'm excited about here is that AK will finally have more to do. Other than that....nah.

 

[Flyerjab]

Avatar will be a stunning addition to DAK. I am eagerly waiting for everyone's collective jaws to drop when more of this addition is detailed later this month at the event (D23?) at the Contemporary Resort.

Concerning this water park though, I have to admit that my wife and I are excited about it. I hope that it does end up as advertised in all of the promos that are being put out. We took our first trip to UNI this year and loved the Harry Potter areas of both parks. With those areas alone and how well done they are, and the promise of this new water park - which looks incredible - we actually bought APs. Here is hoping it ends up being a good decision.

 

[rteetz]

If only Avatar was the least bit appealing to the general public. Could they have picked any more of a subject to hastily become outdated? It already IS. I'm sorry, but that franchise doesn't have the staying power that they're hoping IMO. Talk about grasping at the first thing to come along trying to compete with HP. The only thing I can say that I'm excited about here is that AK will finally have more to do. Other than that....nah.

Understandable but this land isn't based on the story of the movie but the land within the movie. If the attractions and land are top notch I think that will get people there by word of mouth.

 

[Alicefan]

Understandable but this land isn't based on the story of the movie but the land within the movie. If the attractions and land are top notch I think that will get people there by word of mouth.

that's one and the same to me. lol I'm looking forward to it but I'm not sure it's going to be as huge as they're hoping. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[beer dave]

I keep trying to figure out how it CAN work as advertised.

The problem parks always have with reserved systems is ride capacity. I have never seen a published daily ride capacity that could accommodate most guests. Most rides seem to have a daily ride capacity between 5% and 30% of park capacity. Even with some guests being too short for rides and some choosing not to ride them, I don't see how the park can eliminate wait times without requiring lots of pre-planning and without requiring people to choose between rides rather than being to ride everything with no wait. The other areas of the park, like the wave pools and beach areas, will have to be huge to accommodate all of those guests would normally otherwise be standing in line.

I really hope they can do it, and I look forward to seeing how they try. I hope there is not a lot of disappointment because at this point, they are making big promises with no lines.

this exactly-- So you wait in a wading pool or in a lounge chair.... then you are called for your time... so you get up along with the 200 people who can ride each hour, wait behind the remainder of the 200 people from last hour, so your wait should be an hour. If the ride handles 200 per hour and they call the total capacity each hour, the wait at any given time is an hour. I picked 200 based on the timing you usually see at a waterpark between riders on a slide--- can't imagine less than 20 seconds between riders to allow the person at the bottom to clear the exit of the slide. maybe 15 seconds. Either way in 8 hours a single slide will only pass 1920 people max.

It would also be interesting to go on that canoe ride where you are just a couple, and are seated in bathing suits with several strangers.

And I would have no interest in a full service meal while in wet swimming attire.

 

[PuppyJonathan]

That's really technical there... didn't actually think about that as to why we've never seen a fastpass system ever integrated to a (major) water park like this

 

[LaidBackDad]

this exactly-- So you wait in a wading pool or in a lounge chair.... then you are called for your time... so you get up along with the 200 people who can ride each hour, wait behind the remainder of the 200 people from last hour, so your wait should be an hour. If the ride handles 200 per hour and they call the total capacity each hour, the wait at any given time is an hour. I picked 200 based on the timing you usually see at a waterpark between riders on a slide--- can't imagine less than 20 seconds between riders to allow the person at the bottom to clear the exit of the slide. maybe 15 seconds. Either way in 8 hours a single slide will only pass 1920 people max.

It would also be interesting to go on that canoe ride where you are just a couple, and are seated in bathing suits with several strangers.

And I would have no interest in a full service meal while in wet swimming attire.

I think your over thinking it. It's really not that complicated and a rides capacity has little to do with wait times (other than how fast a line will move). If we assume they are using some type of virtual que, it's really just a reservation system. The biggest problems "reservation systems" are rider "no shows". Weather delays or other shut downs like an injured guest or lost items can mess up the system a little bit, but, they also mess up a regular line. Restaurants and hotels all have capacities but can you imagine having an Orlando area vacation without having a reservation holding your place for those places? It sounds like with this system you will just have to make your reservations for the rides when you get to the park. The other nice thing about this system is that it sounds like it will all but eliminate line jumping, which is another huge annoyance with traditional lines.

 

[beer dave]

I think your over thinking it. It's really not that complicated and a rides capacity has little to do with wait times (other than how fast a line will move). If we assume they are using some type of virtual que, it's really just a reservation system. The biggest problems "reservation systems" are rider "no shows". Weather delays or other shut downs like an injured guest or lost items can mess up the system a little bit, but, they also mess up a regular line. Restaurants and hotels all have capacities but can you imagine having an Orlando area vacation without having a reservation holding your place for those places? It sounds like with this system you will just have to make your reservations for the rides when you get to the park. The other nice thing about this system is that it sounds like it will all but eliminate line jumping, which is another huge annoyance with traditional lines.

How fast a line moves and wait times are synonymous in this case. Capacity and crowd level/ attraction desirability directly control wait time.

Sometimes overthinking is a good thing-- especially when trying to predict the success of a future virtual cue system. I'm certain the imagineers or whatever US calls them are doing some overthinking.

You can't compare it to a restaurant reservation since the volume of flow is completely different. In restaurants, you wait for next available table for 15 minutes and have an experience that lasts about an hour and a half. At a waterpark, the experience is about 90 seconds at best, and the number of people served is multitudes above anything in a restaurant. In order to keep the multitudes ready to access the availability of their "moment", they need to be in a cue. Sloppy cueing or gaps where no one is in the cue will cause huge decreases in number of people moved, and greatly reduced guest satisfaction. How often will they send out the call or what spacing of time will be used for the pass increments? Too few per time slot and the ride will under perform. Too many and the wait will be long. Guests will need training on how to rapidly cue if this will work without a wait.

A ride that moves 200 per hour needs a minimum of 100 people actively being in line or heading to the line in any given half hour period. That is a half hour wait at minimum, except for the first half hour of the day. The only reason FPP can work is because of the standby line and the reduced number of passes compared to ride capacity. A situation where everyone has a FP would only work if they greatly limit the rides usage as compared to capacity.

When everyone is super, then no one is.......

 

[LaidBackDad]

How fast a line moves and wait times are synonymous in this case. Capacity and crowd level/ attraction desirability directly control wait time.

Sometimes overthinking is a good thing-- especially when trying to predict the success of a future virtual cue system. I'm certain the imagineers or whatever US calls them are doing some overthinking.

You can't compare it to a restaurant reservation since the volume of flow is completely different. In restaurants, you wait for next available table for 15 minutes and have an experience that lasts about an hour and a half. At a waterpark, the experience is about 90 seconds at best, and the number of people served is multitudes above anything in a restaurant. In order to keep the multitudes ready to access the availability of their "moment", they need to be in a cue. Sloppy cueing or gaps where no one is in the cue will cause huge decreases in number of people moved, and greatly reduced guest satisfaction. How often will they send out the call or what spacing of time will be used for the pass increments? Too few per time slot and the ride will under perform. Too many and the wait will be long. Guests will need training on how to rapidly cue if this will work without a wait.

A ride that moves 200 per hour needs a minimum of 100 people actively being in line or heading to the line in any given half hour period. That is a half hour wait at minimum, except for the first half hour of the day. The only reason FPP can work is because of the standby line and the reduced number of passes compared to ride capacity. A situation where everyone has a FP would only work if they greatly limit the rides usage as compared to capacity.

When everyone is super, then no one is.......

Nonsense, It's not that different than a restaurant reservation system. If anything, it is far more difficult in restaurants because of the length of and various options of a dining experience. If a restaurant has a seating capacity of 200 people they don't accept reservations for all 200 people at the same time, serve them, then seat another 200 guest with a new set of reservations. Times are staggered throughout the day in whatever time intervals makes sense and are adjusted as need be. It's much easier to make a reservation schedule when you know each guest experience will only last 90 seconds tops. Of course there will be a small que, but there only needs to be 1 person waiting in line for the ride to operate at optimum capacity. You're right when you say gaps in a que are bad; but, there is no need to have 100's of people waiting in line for no reason. Guest would only need to be trained if they don't already know how to make a restaurant reservation.