Demographic is changing Covid-19

[luvsJack]

I don't want to list the exact source, as it would not be following board rules, but it is the same person who tried to present this whole thing as a hoax less than a month ago, and who tries to tell people to not listen to the "fake news". I think most people have started to ignore this particular source, but it has taken a lot of cleaning up. Had this been taken seriously by all at first, things may have been different today.

Oh Lordy, not you too. If you are referring to the man in the big white house he didn’t say the virus was a hoax. Not what he meant at all.

 

[Minniesgal]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/health/coronavirus-young-people.html?action=clickThe demographic is changing (or coming to light) and very worrisome.

hasn't that always been the case. Many young in hospital in Italy but they are surviving.

 

[erc]

Oh Lordy, not you too. If you are referring to the man in the big white house he didn’t say the virus was a hoax. Not what he meant at all.

There was the reference to people being concerned about coronavirus being a political attack which was called a hoax. And there were some lined up to attend rallies that told reporters on camera that the whole thing was a hoax. So some believed it to be based on what they were hearing. Who knows maybe some still do.

 

[luvsJack]

There was the reference to people being concerned about coronavirus being a political attack which was called a hoax. And there were some lined up to attend rallies that told reporters on camera that the whole thing was a hoax. So some believed it to be based on what they were hearing. Who knows maybe some still do.

I heard the speech where it was said. It was never said the virus was a hoax. The PANIC of some was the next big “hoax”. Also, actions were being taken then with shutting down travel from China. So obviously it was not thought that the virus was a hoax.

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

Yes. I saw that Stop & Shop has reserved special hours for just the elderly & immune compromised to shop. This morning while on Target's website, trying to order stuff, I saw they too will have the first hour on Wed mornings reserved for the elderly immune compromised.

On the one hand, I think that's good they have a special time. On the other hand, I'm thinking, IS it really good to have them all in together at the same time? It would be like one big Petri dish of the most vulnerable people.

Doctors are finding now that some people are asymptomatic and are spreaders because of it. So, if one or two elderly people are still out, hob-nobing about, not caring to take precautions, and have become asymptomatic spreaders and then go into the stores during the reserved hours to shop as they fit the elderly criteria, they could potentially infect everyone they come in contact just by handling all the same products.

This morning, the medical expert on ABC News said that it has been determined that the Coronavirus stays alive for 24 hours on cardboard surfaces and 3 days on plastics and hard surfaces. Stores can't wipe down every package in the store. So the virus may already be on some packages. Yet, an asymptomatic spreader handling the same cans of creamed corn & tuna, then putting several back as they decide they'll just come back in a few days if they need them, as they aren't isolating, may be adding fresh Coronavirus to the packages that an elderly person next to them then picks up. In some ways, I think it gives a false sense of security that shopping during reserved hours is safer.

The primary way this virus spreads is through touch: someone infected gets droplets on their hand, then touches an object, then another person touches an infected object, then later puts that part of their hand to their mouth, nose or eyes, and voila, they become infected, too.

Breathing it in is a much rarer way to get it, because unlike measles, it doesn't suspend in the air for long. Someone would have to cough in your face to give it to you that way. Which occasionally happens, but is rare. All of the recent emphasis on social distancing hasn't helped to clarify this common misconception, because it reinforces the misconception that you're likely to breathe it in.

So I agree, having special hours for at-risk people at stores isn't going to help much, as they'll still be touching the same things everyone else does. Really, at-risk people need to stay home as possible for this reason, to wear disposable gloves when out when possible, and to be fastdious about handwashing & not touching the face. It's good advice for everyone, but especially for the most at-risk.

 

[RamblingMad]

The primary way this virus spreads is through touch: someone infected gets droplets on their hand, then touches an object, then another person touches an infected object, then later puts that part of their hand to their mouth, nose or eyes, and voila, they become infected, too.

Breathing it in is a much rarer way to get it, because unlike measles, it doesn't suspend in the air for long. Someone would have to cough in your face to give it to you that way. Which occasionally happens, but is rare. All of the recent emphasis on social distancing hasn't helped to clarify this common misconception, because it reinforces the misconception that you're likely to breathe it in.

So I agree, having special hours for at-risk people at stores isn't going to help much, as they'll still be touching the same things everyone else does. Really, at-risk people need to stay home as possible for this reason, to wear disposable gloves when out when possible, and to be fastdious about handwashing & not touching the face. It's good advice for everyone, but especially for the most at-risk.

The virus is airborne for up to three hours, so if someone coughs in a shop, and you walk over to where that person coughed, you could catch it. Here's the info on the virus:

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/new-coronavirus-stable-hours-surfaces
And here's the Kaggle task to do research on the virus transmission:

https://www.kaggle.com/allen-institute-for-ai/CORD-19-research-challenge/tasks?taskId=568

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

Personally, I think the best thing everyone could do is listen to experts and news sources that they can trust and stop trying to figure out “why” they are telling us or what their motive is.

I think it's wrong to discourage critical thinking. It's good to ask why. This is America, not communist China. We're supposed to question our government.

You don't have to a conspriracy theorist to disagree with government agency's actions or advice. And yes, the CDC is a government agency. The CDC already botched the first American coronavirus tests by declining to follow the WHO's protocol on that, which is why our government is now flying blind, trying to figure out the best way to deal with a pandemic without good data on how many Americans have it, how many who have it get seriously ill, and how many who have it die. There aren't enough tests here to give us that info.

So yeah, there are plenty of ressons for people to be asking questions and thinking for themselves right now. This is not a simple situation where one party has all of the correct answers. No one has all the answers yet.

 

[luvsJack]

I think it's wrong to discourage critical thinking. It's good to ask why. This is America, not communist China. We're supposed to question our government.

You don't have to a conspriracy theorist to disagree with government agency's actions or advice. And yes, the CDC is a government agency. The CDC already botched the first American coronavirus tests by declining to follow the WHO's protocol on that, which is why our government is now flying blind, trying to figure out the best way to deal with a pandemic without good data on how many Americans have it, how many who have it get seriously ill, and how many who have it die. There aren't enough tests here to give us that info.

So yeah, there are plenty of ressons for people to be asking questions and thinking for themselves right now. This is not a simple situation where one party has all of the correct answers. No one has all the answers yet.

No one has all the answers. They are learning as they go because this is new. But to question everything anyone says because “they are just trying to get us to . . . “ is NOT helping. It’s making more people also say “I am going to keep doing what I want”.

I strongly believe in the freedoms of this country but sometimes we need to just sit down, shut up and follow directions. Sitting in our homes questioning every new discovery that is made, isn’t accomplishing anything. If someone questions it and takes actions- like doing their own research and studies, great. But just deciding it’s someone trying to manipulate all of us all over the world is just ridiculous.

Thank God we are not China, but I never suggested we should be.

 

[ShirikiUtundu]

The virus is airborne for up to three hours, so if someone coughs in a shop, and you walk over to where that person coughed, you could catch it.

Is that a brand new study? As of 3/16 scientists were saying nothing of the sort:
https://drexel.edu/dornsife/news/in...rus-Can-Likely-Remain-Airborne-for-Some-Time/

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

I fear this is where the obesity problem will bite western civilization in the bum.

Western civilization? Lol. I think you mean the USA. Obesity is extraordinarily prevalent here, but not in Canada, Mexico, South America or Europe.

 

[RamblingMad]

Is that a brand new study? As of 3/16 scientists were saying nothing of the sort:
https://drexel.edu/dornsife/news/in...rus-Can-Likely-Remain-Airborne-for-Some-Time/

That's not what your link says.

"Both the Covid-19 and the SARS viruses had an aerosol half-life of 1.1 hours, meaning half the particles drop out of the air after that amount of time, and half of what remains drop out after another 1.1 hours. After a day, roughly nine half-lives, 0.002 (0.2 of 1%) of the original particles remain. As a result, the scientists said, “aerosol … transmission of [the new coronavirus] is plausible, since the virus can remain viable and infectious in aerosols for hours.” "

 

[Farro]

Is that a brand new study? As of 3/16 scientists were saying nothing of the sort:
https://drexel.edu/dornsife/news/in...rus-Can-Likely-Remain-Airborne-for-Some-Time/

Right.

From CDC (as of today) -
Person-to-person spread
The virus is thought to spread mainly from person-to-person.

• Between people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet).
• Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes.

These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs.

The droplets aren't hanging in the air for 3 hrs or I should say - it's not yet proven that is how people are getting it.

 

[ShirikiUtundu]

That's not what your link says.

"Both the Covid-19 and the SARS viruses had an aerosol half-life of 1.1 hours, meaning half the particles drop out of the air after that amount of time, and half of what remains drop out after another 1.1 hours. After a day, roughly nine half-lives, 0.002 (0.2 of 1%) of the original particles remain. As a result, the scientists said, “aerosol … transmission of [the new coronavirus] is plausible, since the virus can remain viable and infectious in aerosols for hours.” "

They are talking about aerosols generated in a laboratory setting, to mimic aerosols that could be generated during a medical procedure. It literally has nothing to do with coughing and sneezing.

 

[Mainsail Minnie]

I strongly believe in the freedoms of this country but sometimes we need to just sit down, shut up and follow directions...Thank God we are not China, but I never suggested we should be.

I don't know. "We need to just sit down, shut up and follow directions" sounds pretty close to what citizens have to do in China.

And again, thinking for yourself and questioning things is not synonymous for having conspiracy theories. There are always going to be nutters, but that is no reason to suspend our own inquiry or probing discussions.

 

[luvsJack]

Let me just stop the discussion about that individual here. We are all allowed to have out own opinions about how we interpreted what we read and heard, and we all know that this could get unnecessarily nasty when that is not the point of the thread. The only reason that individual was brought up is you lamented why we cannot all just listen to and trust the media. I only brought that individual up as a clear reason why people don't. When they have been called the "fake media" for years, and when their initial reaction to the severity of the situation is referred to as a great hoax, of course there are going to be people who disregard the warnings that the media shares.
As a result, you have less people listening to direction. This leads to more virus spread, and the need for more extreme warnings, such as young people are getting sick too, to be shared in order to make these people finally take it seriously.
I'm fine continuing to discuss that guy, but don't want to get this thread shut down over it. It is pretty clear the role that his comments have played in this whole situation, though.

The fact of the matter is, you can take a quote from any speaker in the world and if you do not like this person, you can make the quote look and sound like something it’s not.

Having been a high school girl many years ago, I have witnessed it in action many times. Two girls discussing something terrible that happened to a third. One of the girls says “I wish she would have xyz. But I don’t think any of us would have thought of that”. Next thing you know, the other girl runs back to three and leaves out everything except “she said you should have done xyz so it’s your own fault”. It happens and we are seeing it play out almost every day and have been for many years.

Most things are in the way they are presented.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

So what's the difference between the "respirator" and this "ventilator" because they said he was already on a respirator and they wanted to move him to this other piece of equipment.

Edited to add the link to his story (his 9 year old is now positive). https://www.insidenova.com/news/pri...cle_afe5acb2-687a-11ea-aabc-dfb28f9f82f1.html

These stories don't reference the second piece of equipment, only our local news station did. He's apparently on an experimental drug also. Seems he may have picked it up on a visit to New York.

A pp answered this but the answer wasn't fully visible.

Here is the other piece of equipment:

https://www.thoracic.org/patients/patient-resources/resources/what-is-ecmo.pdf

 

[Pea-n-Me]

They are talking about aerosols generated in a laboratory setting, to mimic aerosols that could be generated during a medical procedure. It literally has nothing to do with coughing and sneezing.

Yes. Also from the article:

“It’s more evidence that [Covid-19] is predominantly spread through droplets and not as an aerosol,” LeVasseur said.

"Physical evidence bolsters that epidemiological reasoning. When researchers in Singapore tested the air in the rooms of three Covid-19 patients, they found no virus particles on cleaned surfaces or in the air even when they took samples on days the patients were symptomatic and presumably shedding virus into the air, they reported this month in the Journal of the American Medical Association. In the room of the third patient, who shed more virus, virus particles were present on ventilation fans and numerous surfaces — but all air samples were negative.

That suggests that aerosolized virus particles are, at worst, rare in real-world conditions."

 

[Deploraboo]

Let me just stop the discussion about that individual here. We are all allowed to have out own opinions about how we interpreted what we read and heard, and we all know that this could get unnecessarily nasty when that is not the point of the thread. The only reason that individual was brought up is you lamented why we cannot all just listen to and trust the media. I only brought that individual up as a clear reason why people don't. When they have been called the "fake media" for years, and when their initial reaction to the severity of the situation is referred to as a great hoax, of course there are going to be people who disregard the warnings that the media shares.
As a result, you have less people listening to direction. This leads to more virus spread, and the need for more extreme warnings, such as young people are getting sick too, to be shared in order to make these people finally take it seriously.
I'm fine continuing to discuss that guy, but don't want to get this thread shut down over it. It is pretty clear the role that his comments have played in this whole situation, though.

“That guy” grounded planes from China almost instantly and was called a racist. As well as for referring to this as a Chinese Coronavirus. Wonder if using the term Spanish flu” is equally “racist”. They are called fake news because they are fake news.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I wish I felt like doing all the legwork but I think we all might be surprised just how much has changed since this all started not only globally but for us in the nation. It's never been a copacetic relationship, it's never been a cohesive message for anyone to actually just shut up and listen. Not even other nations who have been doing their own thing irrespective of our Federal government and people constantly using what other nations are doing to form their own opinions.

It's so impossibly crazy to think just how dang much has changed in 3 weeks(!?) for us. My husband and I are frustrated just for the sheer lack of consistent message around here, one day one thing the next another, it's 250 people then 50 then 10, weddings were ok but now they aren't, don't close the schools we don't recommend it, to close the schools, to good lord how anyone keeps up is beyond me and that's just in my County (schools on state level) and doesn't include that there are multiple other counties in my metro between the two states and now we're all in a scramble because they've opted to do a stay at home for 30 days BUT it doesn't include the entire metro (3 counties and 1 city unless they opt to clarify this).

Other people must be they truly must be having the easiest direction in the world to not have their heads spinning by all the different things changing but I'll gladly admit it's been confusing to say the least. Congrats to those who have been able to take it all in and take orders (not sure who's orders people have been going with)

*FTR my husband and I have complied with all that has been mandated or strongly recommended. It does not however mean we agree with every decision. That is our right to do so.

 

[Ben E N]

“That guy” grounded planes from China almost instantly and was called a racist. As well as for referring to this as a Chinese Coronavirus. Wonder if using the term Spanish flu” is equally “racist”. They are called fake news because they are fake news.

Not trying to get into all of that. This is not the place for it. The reason it was brought up is precisely what you said. I was responding to this statement, and was explaining why people don't just follow the advice of experts.

Personally, I think the best thing everyone could do is listen to experts and news sources that they can trust