Delta -- discrimination against a black female doctor inflight

Exactly, it was too much time. Most doctors I know are very skilled at cutting through the BS and getting to the problem at hand, very succinctly and professionally. Im not sure what the barriers were here but this obviously didn't happen. And I'm not sure you will ALWAYS pick a "doctor" over a nurse. This has been mentioned in many of the articles I've listed - much will depend on competencies. As an example, you could have an MD who has worked in research for 20 years vs. an RN who's been in charge of an ER for 20 years. In this situation, it could be that the RN has the necessary and current competies to act in the situation more so than the MD does. (Thought both will undoubtedly be useful in the situation.) It just depends. People on the ground will be dependent on volunteers being competent in a certain area before going ahead and doing something to someone on a plane. Providers need to know their own competencies as well, so as not to do harm.

If people are offering their assistance then I'm going to assume they are all competent and would take the doctor. Sorry but that's just me. I'm sure most MDs who are now in research and not really practicing are not going to offer up any services unless there is no one else on the plane and at that point I would take whoever says they are competent enough to help. I get it there are some great nurses out there and you probably are one but that doesn't negate the situation we are talking about which is people who have volunteered to help and therefor feel like they are competent to do so.
 
If people are offering their assistance then I'm going to assume they are all competent and would take the doctor. Sorry but that's just me. I'm sure most MDs who are now in research and not really practicing are not going to offer up any services unless there is no one else on the plane and at that point I would take whoever says they are competent enough to help. I get it there are some great nurses out there and you probably are one but that doesn't negate the situation we are talking about which is people who have volunteered to help and therefor feel like they are competent to do so.
Well then, no offense, but good thing it's not you who's making these decisions on the plane. You don't seem to understand what competencies are in medicine.
 
Well then, no offense, but good thing it's not you who's making these decisions on the plane. You don't seem to understand what competencies are in medicine.

I'm talking about my own person medical care. You seem all twisted up on this any time someone says they would rather have a doctor. It is fine for people to have differences of opinions not sure why anytime someone on this thread has said they would want the doctor who is offering their assistance over a nurse. The US does not have duty to respond laws so the doctor is offering their assistance. I am basing it on that. Since nobody is forced to help I would hope only those who are qualified would even offer.
 
I posted these earlier in the thread, but I'll post them again.

"EMS providers should only work within their scope of practice and not perform interventions or treatments they haven't been trained to do. Whenever possible, an attempt should be made to contact the ground-based physician services the airline may utilize on a regular basis. (7) MedLink is one of the most popular telemedicine services, and is used by many U.S. air carriers. This service permits an aircraft to contact emergency department physicians at a dispatching center in Phoenix via aircraft VHF radio or satellite phone."

http://www.jems.com/articles/2010/06/handling-flight-medical-emerge.html

nurses or other providers must provide only those services within their scope of practice under their home state law. And the provider must provide care that is within the standard of care, given the specific circumstances.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/849674

Note that "providers" are grouped together in both of these resources.
 
Last edited:

I'm talking about my own person medical care. You seem all twisted up on this any time someone says they would rather have a doctor. It is fine for people to have differences of opinions not sure why anytime someone on this thread has said they would want the doctor who is offering their assistance over a nurse. The US does not have duty to respond laws so the doctor is offering their assistance. I am basing it on that. Since nobody is forced to help I would hope only those who are qualified would even offer.
I'm not even going to justify a response to this.

All along I've been talking about the most competent provider, which is what the recommendations are, as I've listed above.
 
.



I really was struck by what she wrote here:

"Commonly, I’m mistaken for an assistant, janitor, secretary, nurse, student, etc even when I have my white coat on; I’m called these names more frequently than I would like instead of Dr. Denmark."

I've known two women in mixed race marriages. One was white, with a middle Eastern husband. They were biologists. The other was black with a white husband. She was a professor at a university.

When the white woman was out with her dark-skinned child, she noticed that people assumed she was an unmarried teen mom - even ignoring the wedding ring on her hand! Others would compliment her on having adopted a little black or native child.

When the black woman was at the university alone, people assumed she was a student, a janitor, a cafeteria worker... anything but a prof. And when she was with her fair-skinned children, people assumed she was their nanny! It didn't matter how professionally she dressed - the conclusions people came to about her were always the same.

And it wasn't just a matter of "your children don't look like you". Because no one thought the white woman was a nanny and no one thought the black woman had adopted her children.

Your sample group isn't very large and may not be that telling. I have two White female friends, both with brown hair and eyes, their skin somewhat olive. Both had children with white blonde hair and blue eyes. Each experienced multiple incidents of people mistaking them for their children's nanny. The icing on the cake came when I took the children of one of those women strolling around the mall, while she got a haircut. One was a baby and one was a toddler. Within minutes, people were oohing and aahing over "my" adorable children. I'm fair like them. Then their mother returned, I continued pushing the stroller, and the remarks continued. She told me no one ever assumed they were her kids, yet I had them for a brief time and I got all the credit because of my hair and eye color. She just got tired of having to say, "No, they're mine. They got their coloring from their dad." It's a fairly common occurrence when your baby looks very different to you, even if you are White.
 
Your sample group isn't very large and may not be that telling. I have two White female friends, both with brown hair and eyes, their skin somewhat olive. Both had children with white blonde hair and blue eyes. Each experienced multiple incidents of people mistaking them for their children's nanny. The icing on the cake came when I took the children of one of those women strolling around the mall, while she got a haircut. One was a baby and one was a toddler. Within minutes, people were oohing and aahing over "my" adorable children. I'm fair like them. Then their mother returned, I continued pushing the stroller, and the remarks continued. She told me no one ever assumed they were her kids, yet I had them for a brief time and I got all the credit because of my hair and eye color. She just got tired of having to say, "No, they're mine. They got their coloring from their dad." It's a fairly common occurrence when your baby looks very different to you, even if you are White.

The question is... if your friends had blonde hair and blue eyes, and their children were brunettes, would they have been mistaken for nannies?

Or would the assumption have been that they'd adopted the children?

In my experience, if you're darker than your child, you are the nanny. If you are fairer than your child, you either adopted the child or was irresponsible about choosing your (now absent) mate.

Neither of our sample sizes are large enough, of course. It'd make for an interesting study!
 
"Show me your credentials. Oh never mind he just died."

That flight attendant was plain out STUPID!!!!!
 
"Show me your credentials. Oh never mind he just died."

That flight attendant was plain out STUPID!!!!!
As crazy as it sounds, the flight attendants are simply protect themselves.

Too many people figure that the easiest way to get rich is to sue someone. Even better if you can sue a company.

Allow someone that isn't qualified to take care of a passenger? Get your pants sued off. Oh, and lose your job because you didn't follow your employer's official policy.

The flight attendant isn't stupid. They just have some self-preservation.
 
I responded to an inflight emergency once. Well, it wasn't really an emergency if you really think about what the word "emergency" means. If you break it down to emergent, urgent or non-urgent, the situation I responded to was urgent. Meaning she needed attention, but was not at risk of dying.

anyway, the call came out, "is there a doctor, nurse or paramedic on the plane that can assist with a medical emergency?" I turned on my call light because the flight was still ascending so I did not want to just jump up out of my seat. The flight attendant came and indicated where assistance was needed. There was a nurse there and I am a nurse practitioner. The flight attendant asked us our names and our credentials, but she did not ask us to provide documentation of our credentials.

The patient's blood pressure had bottomed out. Turns out it was a woman in her mid-thirties who had experienced a night of pretty heavy drinking the night before, then boarded the plane without recovering or rehydrating after her partying.

Anyway, the flight attendant provided us with the medical response pack that is stored on the plane. Let me tell you...it was something that was not often maintained. The items with expiration dates were current, but the other items had obviously been there way too long. The tourniquet and gloves had dry rotted. The BP cuff was stiff, the stethoscope had been curled up so long that it had a crack in it.

We were able to determine her story, her BP, and to get an idea of what was needed. Ideally, we would have lied her down and propped her feet up, but alas, that is an impossible feat on an airplane. So, we did the best we could. The nurse tried for an IV, but missed (I had her try first because she does this task more often than I do), so I tried a second time...I missed too. I moved out of the way, and the nurse used the last remaining angiocath and popped that baby right into the vein. I spiked a bag of fluids and we taped the bag up to the baggage compartment so we didn't have to stand there holding it the entire time.

By this time, the pilot had the plane descending. The nurse and I had to stand up while the plane landed because there were no more seats available. The people sitting adjacent to the woman had been sent to our seats, and the equipment was taking up the two seats that were left by the woman.

Upon landing, the flight attendant documented our names and credentials. She provided us with our personal items that she had gathered for us and lead us off of the flight so the waiting EMS could gain access to the patient as we were still standing in the isle.

The flight attendant commented to us that she was impressed with how we handled the situation. She said that many times, there is a power struggle between the people that respond. I got the feeling she has had to deal with some egos in emergency situations.

Long story I know, but I can tell you that, at least in my experience, the flight attendants were appropriate to ask my credentials. There was one that stuck near us monitoring the situation. And I expect that there is some sort of protocol in place for the flight attendants to step in when egos get in the way. I've know a lot of doctors in my time who I can imagine would play the hero role and bark orders at anyone that "tried to get in their way". I don't know that it happened in any of the situations noted in the articles, just saying that it isn't hard to imagine.
 
I responded to an inflight emergency once. Well, it wasn't really an emergency if you really think about what the word "emergency" means. If you break it down to emergent, urgent or non-urgent, the situation I responded to was urgent. Meaning she needed attention, but was not at risk of dying.

anyway, the call came out, "is there a doctor, nurse or paramedic on the plane that can assist with a medical emergency?" I turned on my call light because the flight was still ascending so I did not want to just jump up out of my seat. The flight attendant came and indicated where assistance was needed. There was a nurse there and I am a nurse practitioner. The flight attendant asked us our names and our credentials, but she did not ask us to provide documentation of our credentials.

The patient's blood pressure had bottomed out. Turns out it was a woman in her mid-thirties who had experienced a night of pretty heavy drinking the night before, then boarded the plane without recovering or rehydrating after her partying.

Anyway, the flight attendant provided us with the medical response pack that is stored on the plane. Let me tell you...it was something that was not often maintained. The items with expiration dates were current, but the other items had obviously been there way too long. The tourniquet and gloves had dry rotted. The BP cuff was stiff, the stethoscope had been curled up so long that it had a crack in it.

We were able to determine her story, her BP, and to get an idea of what was needed. Ideally, we would have lied her down and propped her feet up, but alas, that is an impossible feat on an airplane. So, we did the best we could. The nurse tried for an IV, but missed (I had her try first because she does this task more often than I do), so I tried a second time...I missed too. I moved out of the way, and the nurse used the last remaining angiocath and popped that baby right into the vein. I spiked a bag of fluids and we taped the bag up to the baggage compartment so we didn't have to stand there holding it the entire time.

By this time, the pilot had the plane descending. The nurse and I had to stand up while the plane landed because there were no more seats available. The people sitting adjacent to the woman had been sent to our seats, and the equipment was taking up the two seats that were left by the woman.

Upon landing, the flight attendant documented our names and credentials. She provided us with our personal items that she had gathered for us and lead us off of the flight so the waiting EMS could gain access to the patient as we were still standing in the isle.

The flight attendant commented to us that she was impressed with how we handled the situation. She said that many times, there is a power struggle between the people that respond. I got the feeling she has had to deal with some egos in emergency situations.

Long story I know, but I can tell you that, at least in my experience, the flight attendants were appropriate to ask my credentials. There was one that stuck near us monitoring the situation. And I expect that there is some sort of protocol in place for the flight attendants to step in when egos get in the way. I've know a lot of doctors in my time who I can imagine would play the hero role and bark orders at anyone that "tried to get in their way". I don't know that it happened in any of the situations noted in the articles, just saying that it isn't hard to imagine.
Awesome. Nice job!
 
As crazy as it sounds, the flight attendants are simply protect themselves.

Too many people figure that the easiest way to get rich is to sue someone. Even better if you can sue a company.

Allow someone that isn't qualified to take care of a passenger? Get your pants sued off. Oh, and lose your job because you didn't follow your employer's official policy.

The flight attendant isn't stupid. They just have some self-preservation.

At a possibility of loss of a life?

There was a police officer in Chicago who tried to arrest someone. She did not draw her gun because she didn't want to be sued....it almost cost her her life.
 
As crazy as it sounds, the flight attendants are simply protect themselves.

Too many people figure that the easiest way to get rich is to sue someone. Even better if you can sue a company.

Allow someone that isn't qualified to take care of a passenger? Get your pants sued off. Oh, and lose your job because you didn't follow your employer's official policy.

The flight attendant isn't stupid. They just have some self-preservation.
Who cares about the person with the medical emergency, right? It's totally fine if they die as long as the flight attendant isn't sued.
 
At a possibility of loss of a life?

There was a police officer in Chicago who tried to arrest someone. She did not draw her gun because she didn't want to be sued....it almost cost her her life.
Who cares about the person with the medical emergency, right? It's totally fine if they die as long as the flight attendant isn't sued.

Hey, guys, I'm not a flight attendant. I haven't refused medical treatment on anyone's behalf.

I'm simply saying that the airlines and flight attendants are protecting themselves against a lawsuit.
 
In my opinion, she doesn't look old enough to have a medical degree.

And if I had a choice, I would rather a neurologist look at me, than an ob, in an emergency.
If someone is having a seizure, a neurologist might be more effective than an OB/GYN. If the medical emergency isn't specific to either's specialty, either will be equally effective.
I don't agree it's ridiculous at all. All recommendations I viewed on this subject say that, when volunteering in this type of situation, providers should stick with areas they are competent in.
Great on the ground. In the air, there's not usually an option.
Now FTR, I very likely would volunteer to help on an inflight emergency BUT, if, say, it was an OB/GYN emergency and that wasn't my specialty but was another volunteer's, than I would certainly defer to them, knowing that, not only do I not know much in that situation, but I could do more harm than good.
The OB/GYN wasn't given the option to defer to anyone.
While returning from an international malaria conference, Dr. Michelle Hsiang, a pediatric infectious diseases specialist at the University of California San Francisco, attended to an elderly man suffering from diarrhea and dehydration on a twelve-hour flight from Sri Lanka to London. She was uncomfortable caring for an adult patient with several long-standing medical problems. "I'm a pediatrician, so I'm not used to taking care of adults," she said. "I think it's funny that they call for any physician since many are not board-certified to provide the kind of care that is needed."
Still, you can't reasonably expect specialists in every field to be available on every flight.
 
You'd think protecting someone's life would take precedence over protecting yourselves from a lawsuit. I guess not. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather get sued than be partially responsible for someone's death.
 
I have little doubt that few providers would sit through an inflight emergency without volunteering to help due to fear of being sued, however, when one does volunteer, they need to be mindful of not taking on tasks in that emergency that are outside of their level of competence. That's what the LAW says.
 
much will depend on competencies. As an example, you could have an MD who has worked in research for 20 years vs. an RN who's been in charge of an ER for 20 years. In this situation, it could be that the RN has the necessary and current competies to act in the situation more so than the MD does.

I'd rather have a third or fourth person handling my emergency: the nurse with 20 years of current experience treating patients in the ER or anywhere, or the medical professional with any years of, again, current patient treatment contact.
 
I'd rather have a third or fourth person handling my emergency: the nurse with 20 years of current experience treating patients in the ER or anywhere, or the medical professional with any years of, again, current patient treatment contact.
The problem is, there are logistical considerations on an airplane. Reports coming back from these incidents in the air are that there was only space for one or two people in addition to the FA (if that), not to mention that other customers still have to use the bathroom and want their snacks and drinks, etc., so you can't clog up the aisle on a plane with multiple people indefinitely. Also, as said before, for most inflight emergencies, death isn't something that's likely to happen (only two thirds of one percent of the time) so it's usually more someone who's not feeling well, and that could be for a variety of reasons.
 





Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE


New Posts





DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter DIS Bluesky

Back
Top Bottom