Decided to buy DVC. Need Advice

[huskerfanatic7]

I have decided to buy into Bay Lake Towers. Now it's just deciding and finding the right resale listing. we were looking at 150 points which would be actually 20-30 points more than we need most years and give us a little flexibility with stays. My question is should I do that or buy a 200 point listing and rent out the 60-70 points every year to pay my the majority of my annual dues with. Has anyone done this with success?


ps to be honest I would love to buy into Beach club or Boardwalk but the 2042 expiration date scared me off

 

[MooseBucks]

https://www.disboards.com/threads/has-anyone-bought-resale-points-to-use-for-renting-only.3584595/

That might be a good thread to take a look at. Do you expect to need 200 points in the future? The capital costs on the additional points could do better in a more traditional investment. What would you do if you can't rent them or disney cracks down on rentals?

 

[huskerfanatic7]

https://www.disboards.com/threads/has-anyone-bought-resale-points-to-use-for-renting-only.3584595/

That might be a good thread to take a look at. Do you expect to need 200 points in the future? The capital costs on the additional points could do better in a more traditional investment. What would you do if you can't rent them or disney cracks down on rentals?

I could see us needing 200 points at some point later on. And the flexibility of the extra points til then would be nice. I would just need to go into it mentally thinking these are my dues and not having to rely on renting to be able to do this. Any renting would just be extra cash when we don't need to use all of the points in a given year

 

[LAX]

IMHO, I think it's risky to buy a bigger contract with the sole intention to rent out the extra points on an annual basis. There is currently a very healthy DVC rental market (based strictly on discussions on DIS), so renting out extra points shouldn't be a problem for now. However, it's anyone's guess whether that continues. When I bought my contract, I was conservative in my estimate of the number of points I would need. That was partly because I was planning on using my DVC points only once every 2 years or so. I think I would have been okay had I run into a contract that has an additional 20-30 points, but an extra 60-70 points is a lot of points on an annual basis.

LAX

 

[zavandor]

When I decided to add-on to my small 65 points contract, I was looking for 100 points, but these are hard to come by and demand a premium. I found a 150 points contract with the right UY for the right price (58$ pp, loaded so I rented the extra points and brough the cost down to 50$ pp, a bargain looking with today eyes) and went for it. I though I could rent the extra points when I didn't need it or maybe splurge in a better accomodation every once in a while. Plan is working very well, also because since I bought rental prices went up from $10 pp to $13+ pp. I've rented a few extra points every year and even the whole amount once when I skipped a WDW vacation to go to Japan. Renting has paid almost all the MF since I bought. But:
- I had some extra money and could pay for it cash without any major concern
- I can afford the MF every year even if I decide to use all the extra points or if rental market crashes (or Disney somehow limits it)
- I don't mind the effort needed to rent points out

I wouldn't buy just to rent the points out as an investment, but I think that if you can get a better price buying a few more points , then go for it.

 

[disneynutz]

Doesn't make sense to buy a resort that that isn't your favorite just because the contract has an earlier expiration date and IMO most owners find themselves points short. We own BLT, BWV, and BCV and to us BLT is like staying at any hotel, doesn't feel like Disney at all.

Bill

 

[Nie0214]

Doesn't make sense to buy a resort that that isn't your favorite just because the contract has an earlier expiration date and IMO most owners find themselves points short. We own BLT, BWV, and BCV and to us BLT is like staying at any hotel, doesn't feel like Disney at all.

Bill

I agree on buy where you love, especially if BLT isn't to your tastes. The earlier expirations may seem bad, but if you create amortization calculators in excel, you'd probably be surprised by how the cost-per-year on the earlier resorts are close to BLT's (they just end earlier on the 2042 resorts.) It's still 25 years, and arguably most dvc owners will probably sell by then. You can still purchase another contract along the way as you grow into loving dvc more.

 

[CarolMN]

IMO, it takes quite a bit of discipline to buy more points than you need, planning to rent the extras. Many who start out that way end up using those "extra" points - for longer trips, more frequent trips, larger accommodations, invitations to friends and family, etc. Just something to think about.

I also would tell you not to buy BLT if your heart is really at BCV or BWV. 2042 is still 25 years away. Travel habits change and the odds are that you will not keep the contract to expiration anyway. Better to vacation where you really want to be. The savings or extra years will soon fade in your memory (and become less important) if you are staying at BLT and wishing you were able to get in BCV or BWV. BLT is a popular choice with a very convenient location & we enjoyed our stays there . But for us, it's just not the Boardwalk!

Good luck with your decision and the search for the right contract for you.

 

[Nie0214]

Here's a quick screenshot of one of my calculators that I made a few months ago. I was curious how the expiration date affected the cost, and, as you can see, it really doesn't. Since most of your $$ is going toward annual fees, it all starts to level off. Many people buy AKL because of the lower initial upfront payment, but they'll pay more in the end.

If you love BWV or BCV, buy there.

Simple Assumptions: 100 points, $500 closing costs, paying cash, 3% annual maintenance increases, you pay dues for all 100 points in year one (2017), you don't sell it early.



For anyone who wants to play with this, I made it into a Google Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nJzcHrrB7HzZ1kjXFLWvcFcnHZ50PIxkEFvvX8ttRVY/edit?usp=sharing

 

[kboo]

Here's a quick screenshot of one of my calculators that I made a few months ago. I was curious how the expiration date affected the cost, and, as you can see, it really doesn't. Since most of your $$ is going toward annual fees, it all starts to level off. Many people buy AKL because of the lower initial upfront payment, but they'll pay more in the end.

If you love BWV or BCV, buy there.

Simple Assumptions: 100 points, $500 closing costs, paying cash, 3% annual maintenance increases, you pay dues for all 100 points in year one (2017).

View attachment 223960

Edit: Added in BWL while I was at it.

I'm working on DVC math as well - do you have that calculator posted somewhere where one can play with the ##?

Like OP, I'm somewhat in the same boat, love the EP resorts and could see us staying there in the future, but right now BLT makes the most sense for us, with a 5.5 yo and a 1 yo, to "buy where you wouldn't mind staying." We like being able to walk to MK and take the monorail. But ... reading these comments ... makes me think twice ...

 

[Nie0214]

I'm working on DVC math as well - do you have that calculator posted somewhere where one can play with the ##?

Like OP, I'm somewhat in the same boat, love the EP resorts and could see us staying there in the future, but right now BLT makes the most sense for us, with a 5.5 yo and a 1 yo, to "buy where you wouldn't mind staying." We like being able to walk to MK and take the monorail. But ... reading these comments ... makes me think twice ...

It's actually a Numbers file (i started it on my laptop which doesn't have excel, but it should import ok). PM me your email and I'll send it over.

We love BLT's aesthetic and have a 2.5 year old, so I totally get it. We stayed at AKL twice renting points before we ultimately decided on BLT. (Plus, BLT lake view is often available at 7 months, if you really wanted to stay there for the next few visits for monorail reasons.) Really, I'd have loved the Poly but without 1BR it had to be tossed off the list.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I have decided to buy into Bay Lake Towers. Now it's just deciding and finding the right resale listing. we were looking at 150 points which would be actually 20-30 points more than we need most years and give us a little flexibility with stays. My question is should I do that or buy a 200 point listing and rent out the 60-70 points every year to pay my the majority of my annual dues with. Has anyone done this with success?


ps to be honest I would love to buy into Beach club or Boardwalk but the 2042 expiration date scared me off

Have you stayed at all 3 to know how they are actually are for resorts?

I agree that you have to be very disciplined to not just use the points if you buy extra. If there's no definite plan for them in the future I'd probably just stick with the 150 which is already giving you a buffer. And if you're buying with the thought to stay in the standard view studios you likely will be using that now and then as the cheaper accommodations can be somewhat difficult to book at times. Best to plan on Lakeview for your calculations of point requirements.

 

[huskerfanatic7]

Have you stayed at all 3 to know how they are actually are for resorts?

I agree that you have to be very disciplined to not just use the points if you buy extra. If there's no definite plan for them in the future I'd probably just stick with the 150 which is already giving you a buffer. And if you're buying with the thought to stay in the standard view studios you likely will be using that now and then as the cheaper accommodations can be somewhat difficult to book at times. Best to plan on Lakeview for your calculations of point requirements.

Yes we have stayed at all 3 but only BLT in the Villas. Beach club and Boardwalk we stayed in a regular room. Would that make a difference?. I like BLT and would be fine staying there but my heart seems to keep pulling me to Beach Club. This is really a tough decision. to get 18 extra years just seems like the smart choice

 

[Nie0214]

Yes we have stayed at all 3 but only BLT in the Villas. Beach club and Boardwalk we stayed in a regular room. Would that make a difference?. I like BLT and would be fine staying there but my heart seems to keep pulling me to Beach Club. This is really a tough decision. to get 18 extra years just seems like the smart choice

But you aren't "getting" 18 more years, you're paying equally for them. If your heart isn't in BLT now it's not going to be, and getting Beach Club at 7 months isn't easy.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Yes we have stayed at all 3 but only BLT in the Villas. Beach club and Boardwalk we stayed in a regular room. Would that make a difference?. I like BLT and would be fine staying there but my heart seems to keep pulling me to Beach Club. This is really a tough decision. to get 18 extra years just seems like the smart choice

I do find that BC vs BCV is a bit different. I don't know if you walked back to the villas but BCV was built on a section of the parking lot and is located in a back corner of the resort away from Crescent Lake. Views from the building can be mediocre and I don't especially like the walk to get to SAB from the villas. If you were used to any of the water views at BC you may be disappointed but if that doesn't matter then it can be fine.

Many owners won't hold a contract to the end of it's time though and maybe the 25 years for BCV would be enough for you. If you went annually that's a fair amount of trips. Of course you can always see if you can get in there with the BLT points and if you weren't able you could always rent those out and rent a BCV reservation or book a BC room cash fo the times you didn't want to stay at BLT or some other available resort.

 

[huskerfanatic7]

But you aren't "getting" 18 more years, you're paying equally for them. If your heart isn't in BLT now it's not going to be, and getting Beach Club at 7 months isn't easy.

i'm sorry im a little confused. Can you clarify why its not an extra 18 years and how i would pay equally for them?

 

[Nie0214]

i'm sorry im a little confused. Can you clarify why its not an extra 18 years and how i would pay equally for them?

If you buy 100 points at BLT at $115pp resale:

At closing, you pay $11,500 for the points, ~$500 for closing costs, and $562 in annual fees to the seller, for a total of $12,562 at closing.

Then, for 43 years you pay annual fees (that increase ~2-6% per year) on your points. On January 31, 2060, you are done with DVC and you've spent $60,061 over 43 years on the initial buy in and annual fees (averages to $1,397/year).


If you buy 100 points at Beach Club at $105pp resale:

At closing, you pay $10,500 for the points, ~$500 for closing costs, and $627 in annual fees to the seller, for a total of $11,627 at closing.

Then, for 25 years you pay annual fees (that increase ~2-6% per year) on your points. On January 31, 2042, you are done with DVC and you've spent $33,865 over 25 years on the initial buy in and annual fees (averages to $1,355/year).


So yes, your contract lasts 18 years longer, but you're also paying 18 more years of dues. If your sole reason for wanting BLT over BCV is because of the expiration date, it is helpful to see the numbers to see that you're not "losing" significant money by buying a contract with a sooner expiration.

In fact, if I look at the chart in the spreadsheet below, in UY2041, BLT is at $32,498 which is $1,300 less than BCV, but mostly driven by the fact that BLT currently has lower annual fees (which could easily change). Of course, you could sell BLT in UY2041 to recoup money, but if your intention is to see it through to the end...

You can play with this spreadsheet if you'd like: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nJzcHrrB7HzZ1kjXFLWvcFcnHZ50PIxkEFvvX8ttRVY/edit?usp=sharing

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

So yes, your contract lasts 18 years longer, but you're also paying 18 more years of dues. If your sole reason for wanting BLT over BCV is because of the expiration date, it is helpful to see the numbers to see that you're not "losing" money by buying a contract with a sooner expiration.

You can play with this spreadsheet if you'd like: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nJzcHrrB7HzZ1kjXFLWvcFcnHZ50PIxkEFvvX8ttRVY/edit?usp=sharing

BLT is planned to be around for 18 more years and yes, that's 18 more years of dues but at BCV you're already done and having to look for something else. Your spreadsheet displays projected costs of a contract if you hold until the end vs the potential value of a longer contract vs a shorter one.

Dues are going to happen with all contracts so that's not the issue. If one is going to go to Disney for many years to come and stay onsite they will be paying Disney something to stay there.

Also, you're disregarding a potential sales value for BLT with 18 years left. I can tell you what it will be for BCV - $0. But I expect BLT will still have some sales value even if it's prudent to expect none. If 25 years of stays ends up being enough they can sell BLT. But if one keeps a contract until the end they are still locked in for 18 more years with BLT. With BCV they will be out looking for new ways to stay - and they are very possibly going to be more expensive than what the BLT stays would be costing. That isn't completely predictable but all things being equal should hold true.

 

[Nie0214]

BLT is planned to be around for 18 more years and yes, that's 18 more years of dues but at BCV you're already done and having to look for something else. Your spreadsheet displays projected costs of a contract if you hold until the end vs the potential value of a longer contract vs a shorter one.

Dues are going to happen with all contracts so that's not the issue. If one is going to go to Disney for many years to come and stay onsite they will be paying Disney something to stay there.

Also, you're disregarding a potential sales value for BLT with 18 years left. I can tell you what it will be for BCV - $0. But I expect BLT will still have some sales value even if it's prudent to expect none. If 25 years of stays ends up being enough they can sell BLT. But if one keeps a contract until the end they are still locked in for 18 more years with BLT. With BCV they will be out looking for new ways to stay - and they are very possibly going to be more expensive than what the BLT stays would be costing. That isn't completely predictable but all things being equal should hold true.

All very true! There's a lot of assumptions (including not selling and seeing the contract through to the end). Ultimately, for my needs, if you're going to lock yourself into vacations for a good chunk of your life, you should like where it's going to be.

 

[huskerfanatic7]

Thanks for all of your input!