Debt Dumpers 2020

[Nettlelondon]

How bizarre that the tour company cancelled, but in many ways I think the death of Diana caught so many people on the hop that they reacted quickly on a "what if" basis.

I haven't seen the Harry Potter play but keep meaning too. Obviously it is currently off but apparently the theatre company are looking to see if it can be one of the first to reopen - with appropriate social distancing measures. As many London theatres were built over 100 years ago they face particular challenges in being able to reopen with fewer seats etc. And the economics of reopening mean it isn't necessarily viable. I feel there may be a sudden burst of one and two man shows being staged. Big "all singing, all dancing" musicals definitely feel like they might be a long way off.

One of the big differences between the UK and US can really be shown with the medical costs post. I know this is one of those areas that often stirs emotions but just for contrast I had a similar operation to the lady with the $125,000 bill - but mine involved full open surgery due to the nature of the condition that was being dealt with and a 3 night hospital stay due to complications. I could have had it via the National Health Service for nothing but I wanted it done in a particular timeframe, and I have private medical insurance so I opted to have it done privately. The insurance company were billed less than $10,000. My annual medical insurance bill is about $2,500 with a $350 annual deductible.

The NHS is by no means perfect, but I do find some of the numbers involved in medical matters in the US eye-watering.

 

[barkley]

The NHS is by no means perfect, but I do find some of the numbers involved in medical matters in the US eye-watering.

on the flip side, many of us are flabbergasted when taxation rates for non u.s. countries are quoted. we hear of other countries getting income taxed at 40% or more and not knowing if that means it's a 'total' tax or if people still have property and sales taxes our eyes water as well (any insight you could provide on how this stuff works-i for one would be fascinated to learn and am willing to share how my individual state works b/c taxation varies state to state in the u.s.).

 

[RamblingMad]

Perhaps, one day, would like to go to Ireland also. Came close to a London trip, had it booked actually when I was stationed overseas in the 90s, happened to be the same weekend Diana died, and the tour company cancelled the trip something about the hotel shutting down for the death and same with the bus transport they hired. Never had another opportunity to rebook, for one reason or another.

There is a castle you can stay at in Ireland via the Red Carnation hotels. I think you can book that hotel via Costco. I do want to get back to the UK. The Doctor Who Experience was closed when I visited.

 

[RamblingMad]

on the flip side, many of us are flabbergasted when taxation rates for non u.s. countries are quoted. we hear of other countries getting income taxed at 40% or more and not knowing if that means it's a 'total' tax or if people still have property and sales taxes our eyes water as well (any insight you could provide on how this stuff works-i for one would be fascinated to learn and am willing to share how my individual state works b/c taxation varies state to state in the u.s.).

This is tax fear mongering. It's pretty common in the US. If you can afford healthcare out of pocket, why would you want the US to have universal healthcare? The challenge is to convince people that can't afford healthcare that universal healthcare is terrible and taxes are terrible to keep it from ever happening. This allows you to save more and invest more if you're rich enough to afford these services out of pocket. And this strategy has been working for decades.

 

[Nettlelondon]

"on the flip side, many of us are flabbergasted when taxation rates for non u.s. countries are quoted. we hear of other countries getting income taxed at 40% or more and not knowing if that means it's a 'total' tax or if people still have property and sales taxes our eyes water as well (any insight you could provide on how this stuff works-i for one would be fascinated to learn and am willing to share how my individual state works b/c taxation varies state to state in the u.s.)."

In England and Wales- Scotland has a slightly different figure but only by a tiny bit) the general position is as follows - and I am going to use £ rather than converting to dollars. There are exceptions and variations for individual circumstances but those are around the margins not core positions.

First £12,500 of income = no tax due
Between £12,501 and £50,000 = tax @ 20%
Over £50,000 = 40% on the excess above £50,000

So someone earning £60,000 would pay (12500 x 0) + (37500 x 20%) + (10000 x 40%) = 0 + 7500 + 4000 = 11,500 / year.

On top of that is National Insurance. This was originally ringfenced to pay for social security and health but now just goes in to general taxation. Because it would be too simple for these to be put together, or to match thresholds the situation is:
First £9500 / year = 0%
£9501 to £50,000 = 12%
£50,001 upwards = 2%

So again the £60,000 person would pay (9504 x 0) + (40496 x 12%) + (10,000 x 2%) = 0 + 4859 + 200 = £5,059.

The latest figures I can find show approximately 80% of tax payers are paying at a marginal rate of 20% and the rest at 40%. But only about half of adults pay any tax at all.

All of that goes to central government, everyone files as individuals. There is an option in a very small minority of families to transfer some of the tax free "band" to a non tax paying spouse but that is only worth a few hundred pounds a year.

Local councils charge residents Council tax to pay for local services such as street lighting, waste collection, adult social care, child welfare services and so on. This is assessed on every property based on a value some time ago and varies by size of house etc and the way it is worked out is way too complicated to understand. However, to give you an idea I live in a relatively expensive area and pay about £1600 per year. That only increases by a few pounds a year. My house would currently sell for around £425,000.

There you go, there ends the taxation lesson for today. Apologies to anyone bored brainless by it - but it is good to have something not involving the C-19 word for a change, even if it is tax.

 

[afan]

"on the flip side, many of us are flabbergasted when taxation rates for non u.s. countries are quoted. we hear of other countries getting income taxed at 40% or more and not knowing if that means it's a 'total' tax or if people still have property and sales taxes our eyes water as well (any insight you could provide on how this stuff works-i for one would be fascinated to learn and am willing to share how my individual state works b/c taxation varies state to state in the u.s.)."

In England and Wales- Scotland has a slightly different figure but only by a tiny bit) the general position is as follows - and I am going to use £ rather than converting to dollars. There are exceptions and variations for individual circumstances but those are around the margins not core positions.

First £12,500 of income = no tax due
Between £12,501 and £50,000 = tax @ 20%
Over £50,000 = 40% on the excess above £50,000

So someone earning £60,000 would pay (12500 x 0) + (37500 x 20%) + (10000 x 40%) = 0 + 7500 + 4000 = 11,500 / year.

On top of that is National Insurance. This was originally ringfenced to pay for social security and health but now just goes in to general taxation. Because it would be too simple for these to be put together, or to match thresholds the situation is:
First £9500 / year = 0%
£9501 to £50,000 = 12%
£50,001 upwards = 2%

So again the £60,000 person would pay (9504 x 0) + (40496 x 12%) + (10,000 x 2%) = 0 + 4859 + 200 = £5,059.

The latest figures I can find show approximately 80% of tax payers are paying at a marginal rate of 20% and the rest at 40%. But only about half of adults pay any tax at all.

All of that goes to central government, everyone files as individuals. There is an option in a very small minority of families to transfer some of the tax free "band" to a non tax paying spouse but that is only worth a few hundred pounds a year.

Local councils charge residents Council tax to pay for local services such as street lighting, waste collection, adult social care, child welfare services and so on. This is assessed on every property based on a value some time ago and varies by size of house etc and the way it is worked out is way too complicated to understand. However, to give you an idea I live in a relatively expensive area and pay about £1600 per year. That only increases by a few pounds a year. My house would currently sell for around £425,000.

There you go, there ends the taxation lesson for today. Apologies to anyone bored brainless by it - but it is good to have something not involving the C-19 word for a change, even if it is tax.

Thanks for explaining! Seeing it broken out shows the taxes really aren't that bad. But then there's sales tax etc.

 

[Nettlelondon]

We don't really see sales tax as such. VAT at 20% on certain things (not food, books and children's clothes for example) is built into the actual ticket price so you just don't think about it.

There are all sorts of other odds and ends of taxes, like everywhere. And I think the universal view, the world over from every individual is that they are paying too much.

Another element that is different in the UK to many places, is that the majority of taxes based on income are deducted each pay period so are reasonably evenly spread throughout the year. Annual tax returns / filings are only done by a small minority of people - generally those with multiple income sources or earning higher salaries. Some people elect to file anyway to ensure they are getting appropriate tax relief for charitable donations or money invested in certain types of retirement savings. National Insurance contributions guarantee a minimum income in retirement but it isn't very much so the majority of people opt to save more themselves, frequently with employer contributions.

 

[DnA2010]

We have also been to basketball, football and ice hockey matches on subsequent trips but I still prefer baseball. American football is a complete mystery to me still.

So interesting! I'm from Canada, so naturally I love hockey, but also look football and don't mind basketball...baseball on the other hand, is like watching paint dry for me

 

[barkley]

We don't really see sales tax as such. VAT at 20% on certain things (not food, books and children's clothes for example) is built into the actual ticket price so you just don't think about it.

that's where it gets weird where i live. i'm in a state with about a 9% sales tax (above 20% for liquor and tobacco products), live next to another state that only has a 6% but, they, unlike mine-tax all groceries, a second state is next to me that has NO sales tax. you would think people would opt to live in the no sales tax state but wait..........both they and the 6% sales tax state have state income tax, which mine does not.

result-people go from my state to one of the others to buy liquor/cigarettes/some big ticket items, people in the 6% state go to mine or zero land to buy groceries (yeah, it's been interesting to read of states requiring quarantining once you cross into them-thousands of people here cross the state lines daily to shop).

 

[RamblingMad]

that's where it gets weird where i live. i'm in a state with about a 9% sales tax (above 20% for liquor and tobacco products), live next to another state that only has a 6% but, they, unlike mine-tax all groceries, a second state is next to me that has NO sales tax. you would think people would opt to live in the no sales tax state but wait..........both they and the 6% sales tax state have state income tax, which mine does not.

result-people go from my state to one of the others to buy liquor/cigarettes/some big ticket items, people in the 6% state go to mine or zero land to buy groceries (yeah, it's been interesting to read of states requiring quarantining once you cross into them-thousands of people here cross the state lines daily to shop).

I remember when Amazon didn't charge sales tax. Those were the days.

 

[barkley]

I remember when Amazon didn't charge sales tax. Those were the days.

what gets interesting here is with the variable sales tax rates depending on city/county you live in/buy. whenever i get a bid for a job from a contractor it's rare that i don't have to have them re figure the tax b/c they assume that i am taxed based on the city that my address is linked to, BUT, b/c i'm just outside that city's limits, i am instead-taxed based on the lower county rate.

 

[Nettlelondon]

So interesting! I'm from Canada, so naturally I love hockey, but also look football and don't mind basketball...baseball on the other hand, is like watching paint dry for me

Ice hockey just left me feeling dizzy as I tried to follow what was going on. In the end I was just watching what was happening in the team "pen" as players swapped about. And people watching the crowd of course.

 

[jen7233]

Ice hockey just left me feeling dizzy as I tried to follow what was going on. In the end I was just watching what was happening in the team "pen" as players swapped about. And people watching the crowd of course.

I don't like to watch it in person, dizzy to me also, plus the sounds, my ears and head pay the price down migraine lane. Not sure if cow bells are the norm, but the few times I went they had them.

 

[pblack]

I don't like to watch it in person, dizzy to me also, plus the sounds, my ears and head pay the price down migraine lane. Not sure if cow bells are the norm, but the few times I went they had them.

Cow bells might be a Regional thing. Ive been to a few San Jose sharks games, minor league Stockton heat games, and a minor league Seattle game and ive never heard cow bells.

 

[DisneyMandC]

I remember when Amazon didn't charge sales tax. Those were the days.

My county laid off 500 employees about 3 weeks into covid and claimed that budgets are going to have to be tightened and plans foregone. Meanwhile, personal property taxes were paid on time, real property taxes are still being paid on time, AND we have an Amazon warehouse in our county and because of the huge increase in Amazon sales collecting sales tax, we have a higher than ever before sales tax revenue. We have no meals/restaurant tax in our county, so they're not missing out on money from that. So basically the county laid off 500 people, including members of law enforcement... to bring even more money in.

 

[afan]

Cow bells might be a Regional thing. Ive been to a few San Jose sharks games, minor league Stockton heat games, and a minor league Seattle game and ive never heard cow bells.

We don't have minor league hockey in seattle and haven't had a junior team in the actually city for quite some time. They play in the suburbs

Cowbells it depends on location and sport and generally there won't be too many. They were a give away for a san jose sabercats playoff game the season internet for them. Arena football back in the early 00s. Try being in the press box in the rafters with 10k cowbells going.

I find the drums the A's use far more annoying along with the trumpet guy during spring training but I can't remember if he's at all Mariners games or if it's another team. I don't mind cow bell as it's generally not constant.

 

[huggybuff]

I find the drums the A's use far more annoying along with the trumpet guy during spring training but I can't remember if he's at all Mariners games or if it's another team. I don't mind cow bell as it's generally not constant.

I love the drums!

 

[afan]

I love the drums!

If they didn't come through the tv broadcast so loud it wouldn't be bad but it makes it annoying and distracting. Sometimes hard to hear them talk. I'm sure at games it wouldn't be bad. I went to an A's game a couple years ago and if they were there I don't remember them so it's probably more a tv issue and/or how the M's put their mics for games there.

 

[DnA2010]

We don't have minor league hockey in seattle and haven't had a junior team in the actually city for quite some time. They play in the suburbs

Seattle Thunderbirds?

 

[afan]

Seattle Thunderbirds?

Yup, they play in Kent now.