Debate: Where's the Outcry for HIS Free Speech ?

[wvrevy]

The following, unfortunately, is not a joke:

New Mexico example

Fahrenheit 451* Revisited

By BILL HILL
Daytona Beach News-Journal 05-15-04

Bill Nevins, a New Mexico high school teacher and personal friend, was fired last year and classes in poetry and the poetry club at Rio Rancho High School were permanently terminated. It had nothing to do with obscenity, but it had everything to do with extremist politics.

The "Slam Team" was a group of teenage poets who asked Nevins to serve as faculty adviser to their club. The teens, mostly shy youngsters, were taught to read their poetry aloud and before audiences. Rio Rancho High School gave the Slam Team access to the school's closed-circuit television once a week and the poets thrived.

In March 2003, a teenage girl named Courtney presented one of her poems before an audience at Barnes & Noble bookstore in Albuquerque, then read the poem live on the school's closed-circuit television channel.

A school military liaison and the high school principal accused the girl of being "un-American" because she criticized the war in Iraq and the Bush administration's failure to give substance to its "No child left behind" education policy.

The girl's mother, also a teacher, was ordered by the principal to destroy the child's poetry. The mother refused and may lose her job.

Bill Nevins was suspended for not censoring the poetry of his students. Remember, there is no obscenity to be found in any of the poetry. He was later fired by the principal.

After firing Nevins and terminating the teaching and reading of poetry in the school, the principal and the military liaison read a poem of their own as they raised the flag outside the school. When the principal had the flag at full staff, he applauded the action he'd taken in concert with the military liaison.

Then to all students and faculty who did not share his political opinions, the principal shouted: "Shut your faces." What a wonderful lesson he gave those 3,000 students at the largest public high school in New Mexico. In his mind, only certain opinions are to be allowed.

But more was to come. Posters done by art students were ordered torn down, even though none was termed obscene. Some were satirical, implicating a national policy that had led us into war. Art teachers who refused to rip down the posters on display in their classrooms were not given contracts to return to the school in this current school year.

The message is plain. Critical thinking, questioning of public policies and freedom of speech are not to be allowed to anyone who does not share the thinking of the school principal.

The teachers union has been joined in a legal action against the school by the National Writers Union, headquartered in New York City. NWU's at-large representative Samantha Clark lives and works in Albuquerque.

The American Civil Liberties Union has become the legal arm of the lawsuit pending in federal court.

Meanwhile, Nevins applied for a teaching post in another school and was offered the job but he can't go to work until Rio Rancho's principal sends the new school Nevins' credentials. The principal has refused to do so, and that adds yet another issue to the lawsuit, which is awaiting a trial date.

While students are denied poetry readings, poetry clubs and classes in poetry, Nevins works elsewhere and writes his own poetry.

Writers and editors who have spent years translating essays, films, poems, scientific articles and books by Iranian, North Korean and Sudanese authors have been warned not to do so by the U.S. Treasury Department under penalty of fine and imprisonment. Publishers and film producers are not allowed to edit works authored by writers in those nations. The Bush administration contends doing so has the effect of trading with the enemy, despite a 1988 law that exempts published materials from sanction under trade rules.

Robert Bovenschulte, president of the American Chemical Society, is challenging the rule interpretation by violating it to edit into English several scientific papers from Iran.

Are book burnings next?

 

[Sirius]

Rather Gestapo like isn't it.

Who does this principal think he is? Holding someones professional creditials hostage is outrageous. Tearing down art work and refusing to teach poetry is ridiculus.

Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart

 

[caitycaity]

A school military liaison and the high school principal accused the girl of being "un-American" because she criticized the war in Iraq and the Bush administration's failure to give substance to its "No child left behind" education policy.

The girl's mother, also a teacher, was ordered by the principal to destroy the child's poetry. The mother refused and may lose her job.

Bill Nevins was suspended for not censoring the poetry of his students. Remember, there is no obscenity to be found in any of the poetry. He was later fired by the principal.

there are so many ridiculous things there, i don't know where to begin.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

It certainly does sound like Farenheit451 revisited!

 

[EsmeraldaX]

As long as the teacher was giving equal time to both sides of politics and everything in between; he should not have been terminated. If he was slanting the classroom teaching to only reflect his views as the correct ones, that is a different matter.

I feel horrible for the girl told to destroy her poetry. I hope her mother fights it. No child should have to go through that. I disagree with the girl but she is an American and she has the right to say and write whatever she feels.

Scary that the principal is getting away with this.

 

[Tinkerbutt]

This country is becoming a very scary place. I hope this nonsense ends soon.

 

[2bemarried]

That principal is the one that should be fired. I agree with the war and why Bush sent the troops over there....but I'm not about to deny anyone else from expressing his/her opinion...it's just SO wrong.

 

[MHopkins2]

The best thing that could come of this is for the President (or someone important in the adminstration) to come out against this action. I won't hold my breath though.

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
The best thing that could come of this is for the President (or someone important in the adminstration) to come out against this action. I won't hold my breath though.

Oh...wait...you weren't serious were you ? THIS president come out for someone else's right to their opinion ?

Yeah...You definitely don't want to be holding your breath on that one

Oh, and Esmerelda...This wasn't a class, it was a club the kids started, not run by the teacher. So far as I know, there's no rule that says that "both sides" have to be given, or any such thing...otherwise, how could groups like the "Young Republicans" and "Young Democrats" exist ?

 

[Maleficent13]

I'm trying to figure out the debate point...I'm afraid with only a little over a day left until FLA, I'm a bit fuzzy. Can you help me out? The only thing I can think of is: is the principal of this school a first-rate (insert fave censored word here)?

Answer: yes.

 

[k&a&c'smom]

This is another in a long line of frightening incidents that have occurred in the last few years. What is the most frightening to me is that more people are not outraged by it. Whether you agree with the President and his policies or disagree, you should be shouting from the rooftops that this kind of tyranny cannot be tolerated. I love my country, I'm very patriotic, have a flag and display it proudly for Memorial Day, Veteran's Day, etc. But loving something and following it blindly are two very different things. Isn't that what happened in Germany several generations ago?!

 

[faithinkarma]

What one earth would make someone behave in this manner. I always like to hear the other side before passing judgement. Has this principal held any press conferences or made any public statements? Is the shcool board backing him up?

Have to admit though..the part about him holding back paperwork to prevent the teacher from getting another job says a lot about him even before he opens his mouth.

And why is the "liberal press" not all over this story?

 

[Planogirl]

This is a very scary story. Who the heck does that guy think he is? I wouldn't destroy the poetry either if I were that girl's mother and good for her for fighting this nutcase. Good for everyone involved in this fight for free speech.

I've seen a lot of this type of thinking though, sometimes even on these boards.

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by Maleficent13
I'm trying to figure out the debate point...I'm afraid with only a little over a day left until FLA, I'm a bit fuzzy. Can you help me out? The only thing I can think of is: is the principal of this school a first-rate (insert fave censored word here)?

Answer: yes.

Well, part of my original point was simply that it's just amazing that the same people that were all for the kid on that other thread wearing his condemnation of gays on his sleeve (so to speak) without retribution from his school aren't up in arms to protect this teacher and his students from punishment by theirs.

Hmmm...wonder if it has anything to do with the message that was being delivered ?

Nah...couldn't be that

Seriously, though....the fact that incidents like this are becoming fairly commonplace is actually frightening to my freedom loving soul

 

[Maleficent13]

Originally posted by wvrevy
Well, part of my original point was simply that it's just amazing that the same people that were all for the kid on that other thread wearing his condemnation of gays on his sleeve (so to speak) without retribution from his school aren't up in arms to protect this teacher and his students from punishment by theirs.

Hmmm...wonder if it has anything to do with the message that was being delivered ?

Nah...couldn't be that

Seriously, though....the fact that incidents like this are becoming fairly commonplace is actually frightening to my freedom loving soul

OH! Okay! Well, if that's the debate point, then here goes:

Where's the outcry for HIS free speech?

Ahem, *cough, cough*: "I am hereby outcrying this principal and his actions. Those students deserve to write and speak their mind! And the teacher who was their club advisor deserves his job. However, IMO, he shouldn't want it, and he should get a court order demanding the school release his records."

Thus endth the outcry.

I am serious about it though...

 

[meandtheguys]

OoooKaaay...still medicated today, but wondering if you mean the principal's freedom of speech or the young ladies? The principal should be canned (purely emotional reasoning), the mother un-suspended and the daughter apologized to, IMO.

 

[jrydberg]

Well, part of my original point was simply that it's just amazing that the same people that were all for the kid on that other thread wearing his condemnation of gays on his sleeve (so to speak) without retribution from his school aren't up in arms to protect this teacher and his students from punishment by theirs.

Hmmm...wonder if it has anything to do with the message that was being delivered ?

Nah...couldn't be that

Seriously, though....the fact that incidents like this are becoming fairly commonplace is actually frightening to my freedom loving soul

One can easily turn this around and say where's your outrage in the other case? You are doing exactly that which you accuse others of -- namely waiting to hear the message before you decide if it should be protected.

I think both cases are outrageous. Yes, the principal is way out of line. I wasn't, as you say, up in arms over this because frankly, I hadn't heard about it.

 

[JimB.]

If the circumstances described are accurate, then yea, this shows a lack of appropriate judgement on the part of the principal (IMHO). If this is an extracurricular activity, there is no need to be "fair & balanced" in the presentation of points of view.

We have to be educating our children to be questioning of authority (not necessarily abusing or ignoring it, however).

I agree with President Bush about Iraq. I disagree with him on many other things. President Bush was not involved in this incident. Some bone-headed school administrator that was overstepping his bounds was.

Please note that this "trend" (as some put it) is NOT exclusive to conservative points of view since the Invasion of Iraq. Take a look at college campuses today. There are hundreds of instances of "non-liberal" speech being crushed like a bug. "PC" & "Political correctness" is (IMHO) just as big a threat (if not more) to free speech as the actions of this buffoon in the article.

 

[wvrevy]

Actually, no, I'm not being hypocritical, because I don't actually consider the other issue to be about free speech (more about disrupting a school activity). Somehow, I think you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone that the study of poetry is disruptive to a class atmosphere.

I wasn't accusing anyone in particular, by the way......


Oh, and I'll be waiting with baited breath for the "hundreds" of examples Jim says that are out there of mean ol' liberals taking away free speech from good little conservatives on college campuses everywhere

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by wvrevy
Well, part of my original point was simply that it's just amazing that the same people that were all for the kid on that other thread wearing his condemnation of gays on his sleeve (so to speak) without retribution from his school aren't up in arms to protect this teacher and his students from punishment by theirs.

Hmmm...wonder if it has anything to do with the message that was being delivered ?

Nah...couldn't be that

Seriously, though....the fact that incidents like this are becoming fairly commonplace is actually frightening to my freedom loving soul

Perhaps you're not seeing the outcry from the people who thought the boy on the other threads rights were being violated because maybe, just maybe, those people have not seen this thread yet.

I think the principle should be fired!! I would like to hear what the other side has to say too, but to me at this point, this is just outrageous! There seems to be nothing more to debate IMO because the principle seemed out of line on ALL counts.