Debate: Partial Birth Abortion...

[MHopkins2]

Galahad - I'm seriously asking here, and not being sarcastic. How can a fetus (or anyone, for that matter) "suffer" from a brain puncture and vacuum?

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by poohandwendy

So, the first question for debate is this: Is the term 'partial birth abortion" a correct description of the procedure or is it just a political term coined to inflame the heated abortion issue?

It is indeed a different name for the same thing. Politically motivated? You bet.

If you took a poll asking what a "D&X" was, my guess is that not a lot of people would know what it was.

OTH, if you asked how "paritial birth abortion" is done, they probably not know how is was performed.

I can say that I didn't know what either was until reading more about it.

There's always been (and always will be) the practice of using the power of words to make the point have more impact. I don't see anything wrong with it especailly in the case of a PBA.

There are many many other examples of medical terms that sound much "nicer" than the more common name.

 

[southernclass]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
]

Because it is not my responsibility to pick up the slack for heartless people who shuck their burden on every one else.

Would I help a child if he/she were in need, of course I would!!

In fact, Fh and I volunteer at an AIDS center on the weekends and we also give our time and money to St. Jude Research Hospital, besides that we give ten percent of our income to the work of God because truly he is the ONLY one who should decide if a baby is brought into this world.

Are we better than him??? If he accepts the child shouldn't we?? [/QUOTE]



I think it's great that you do that! You sound like a really nice person. I didn't mean to make it sound like I was just picking on you.

I am pro-choice because I see it as one of the only ways to solve the problems globally regarding overpopulation, etc.

It would be great if we had no need for these type of solutions, someday. [/B][/QUOTE]

It's ok, I am just so use to so many others taking a jab at me here I sort of expect it.

I am not saying I have the right to make the choice for anyone but I don't think the government should even allow it to be legal and then if a mother wants to kill her baby she can do it some other way illegally if she is that desperate.

I use to be pro-choice a long time ago and then a new light started to shine for me.

 

[southernclass]

Originally posted by snoopy
I dunno, you weren't planning on carrying around your neighbor in your uterus for the next 9 months were you?

Is that supposed to make sense because it clearly does not.

Your basis for your opinion is all about choice and if society is that pathetic to allow you to chose to kill your baby then I just figured we could make all our choices.

Not going to get into a religious discussion with you because it is pretty clear who believes in God and who does not, it shows in the choices they make regarding the lives of others!LOL

 

[snoopy]

It makes about as much sense as abortion and the killing of your neighbor for taking a poop in your yard.

And please do save your religious discussions for someone else. I'm not interested in your religion, I certainly wouldn't let YOUR beliefs dictate my choices.

 

[southernclass]

Originally posted by snoopy
So are you saying that your religion and your belief in God trump cards MY religion and my lack of belief in God?

(asking hypothetically, that is)

Ummmm in case your short term memory failed on you again, you just asked me about my beliefs!!!

Even though yu said hypothetical, nothing is on this board anyway.

 

[Disney Doll]

I am pro-choice. While abortion is not a choice I owuld personally make for moral and religious reasons, I do know that not everyone in the country has the same morals or religious beliefs that I do (nor should they if they choose not to), and therefore, I think that those people should be offered the choice of abortion, since it is legal. I am a woman.

That being said, the partial birth abortion is the one thing that might make me say no to choice. I don't think there is a reson to do it. If the mother's life is at risk, then dleiver the baby and see what happens. Once the baby is delivered, the risk to the mother is ended.

I htink it is a barbaric procedure, and I think we start down a slippery slope by allowing it. I don't think it has anything to do with Republican, Democrat or any other political party. It has to do with human-ness and humaneness.

 

[snoopy]

Uhhh, I quoted someone else who said God should make the decision whether or not a woman has a child. Read the post again, southernclass. I have no issues with short term memory loss, but perhaps you have a problem with comprehending what you read? I was, however, essentially telling him the same thing I told you -- your beliefs do not trump card mine.

 

[Galahad]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
Galahad - I'm seriously asking here, and not being sarcastic. How can a fetus (or anyone, for that matter) "suffer" from a brain puncture and vacuum?

What has been shown is that a late term fetus feels exactly the same things a very young infant would. If the infant wouldn't "suffer" then the fetus wouldn't "suffer". I would assume, though, that any desire not to have an infant killed would not be predicated upon whether it feels pain.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

I would just like to jump in and add here that not everyone who is against later term abortion is a religious person. I am not religious in the slightest.

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by Galahad
What has been shown is that a late term fetus feels exactly the same things a very young infant would. If the infant wouldn't "suffer" then the fetus wouldn't "suffer".

So that's a no, then?

I would assume, though, that any desire not to have an infant killed would not be predicated upon whether it feels pain.

The question was the humane-ness or lack thereof, which IMO is predicated upon pain and suffering.

 

[poohandwendy]

Ok, MHopkins turn around and let me puncture your skull...

jk seriously, you don't believe there would be pain and suffering? I mean, I don't know about you but, the base of my skull is sorta sensitive...

 

[Galahad]

So that's a no, then?

Thought you said you weren't being sarcastic.

 

[poohandwendy]

Holy cow, we don't even euthanize dogs this way...

I just don't understand how anyone could consider this method not brutal...

 

[caitycaity]

i pretty much agree with mhopkins' NOMB comment.

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
Ok, MHopkins turn around and let me puncture your skull...

jk seriously, you don't believe there would be pain and suffering? I mean, I don't know about you but, the base of my skull is sorta sensitive...

No, I seriously don't - no joke. Do we have a doctor in the house that could help with this question?

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by Galahad
Thought you said you weren't being sarcastic.

Couldn't help myself. But I'm right, right? We don't have any evidence that this procedure would cause pain? I.e., just because a fetus can experience suffering, doesn't mean they do during this particular event.

 

[poohandwendy]

It can be proven that infants have nerve endings that respond to pain at the base of their skull...so I guess you are wrong....

 

[Galahad]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
Couldn't help myself. But I'm right, right? We don't have any evidence that this procedure would cause pain? I.e., just because a fetus can experience suffering, doesn't mean they do during this particular event.

You can understand why I won't page DW right now to get an answer to this question immediately , I will talk to her about it tonight. My guess is that we can't prove that the baby feels pain in that particular circumstances. But I still wonder about this issue. As I said earlier, there is never a medical reason to do this. The health and life of the woman is not being protected by this procedure. So I actually find the opposition to its prohibition more puzzling than the position of those that want it banned.

 

[wdwdvcdad]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
Honestly? No, I don't - which is why I originally posted that I don't see anything inhumane about it. If the brain is punctured and sucked out, the pain center in the brain goes along with it. (Note: you sort of contradicted yourself - babies cry from *shock* upon birth, not necessarily pain.)
Don't assume that just because I don't agree with you on this, it's because I didn't understand the subject. I already knew the details of how this procedure works, and my opinion stands. (As does my opinion on other types of abortions, after some samaritan inevitably posts links to squicky pictures.)

If you do not think having a scissors jabbed into the base of your skull, having the hole expanded & then having a vacuum shoved in the opening is painful, then, obviously, it isn't.

If you undersatood the subject, you could not possibly be pro-murder.

As for the links, there was not a picture of aborted fetuses. The last link had a diagram of the medical procedure as it went step by step. no blood & guts to get in the way of your conscience....