DEBATE: is health care a right or a privilege?

[emmagata]

Originally posted by dmadman43
Well, it's not a problem for the Federal Government to solve. Where is the Fed Govt given the power to take MY money to pay for YOUR healthcare?

It's not really a matter of agreeing or disagreeing what the Federal G. should do. It's a matter of what the Constitution allows them to do.

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by emmagata
Justy curious. Did you help this person at all?

Yes, as much as we could....They don't live near-by, but we've helped both financially and (I'd like to think, anyway) emotionally. But we're not exactly wealthy people (despite, between DW and I, making roughly twice what the couple I'm talking about make), and her medical bills are just ridiculous. There is only so much that we could do, but we've tried to do it.

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by dmadman43
Look! Out the window! Pigs are flying!!! I agree with wvrevy!!!!

Well, now, dmadman, you couldn't be wrong ALL the time, after all

 

[Bob Slydell]

Originally posted by wvrevy
Thanks, Esmeralda....The surgery she had on Wednesday was essentially a hysterectomy (they'd begun taking out a few things in an earlier surgery, this just basically finished the process). She's home now and seems to be doing well.

She and my DW basically grew up together, and at 32 (and with 3 kids), it's just kinda hard to take.

I'm glad she's doing better and hopefully things will continue to be on the upswing in their life.

Can I just add -- Cancer Sucks.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by wvrevy
Well, now, dmadman, you couldn't be wrong ALL the time, after all

touche!

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by wvrevy
Thanks, Esmeralda....The surgery she had on Wednesday was essentially a hysterectomy (they'd begun taking out a few things in an earlier surgery, this just basically finished the process). She's home now and seems to be doing well.

She and my DW basically grew up together, and at 32 (and with 3 kids), it's just kinda hard to take.

I'm glad she is doing well. I have known so many people with cancer and it's just a terrible thing for the whole family and all the friends involved. My best to her family & kids.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by vernon
I would say it is a privilege, but that it should be a privilege available to people who live in a civilized society, if they need it even if they are in a (temporary) situation where they can not pay for some/all of it.

I don't think the US system works as well as it could for the good of the whole of American society. I would also add that I think the system in the UK (and Europe) could also be critisised in the same way, but from the opposite end of the spectrum.

I do believe that it should be possible to provide a system that lies somewhere between the ideas of free healthcare for all as is attempted in Europe (and is helping to bankrupt the countries) and the American ideal where the most needy of society can fall through the gaps. Both systems have some acknowledgement of the benefits of a "middle road" in the UK private healthcare is quite a big business but the demands put upon the government run "national health service" are still too wide ranging and costly. For example I do not think sex change opperations, cosmetic surgery and fertility treatment should be paid for by the state. Two of those are "personal choice" issues and for fertility treatment, IMHO if you can't afford $2,000 for the treatment you damn well sure can't afford to have kids because the total cost is astronomical. In the US you have Medicaid, but IMHO this does not cover sufficient cases and can be too hard to qualify for.

I'm not a socialist by nature and I do not like Governments interfering in the day to day lives of it's citizens, but IMHO health and education are two areas where the issues are so large that, in any civilised society, there needs to be an institution that makes sure the interests of all are catered for. There are, IMHO two issues as to the payment side of things one is the individuals ability to pay for his or her healthcare and the other is a societies ability to pay for the needs of it's members. There are a number of ways where that can work side by side to give a better answer to the needs of the individual and of the society.

I think the best system is one where there is a basic level of healthcare available for those that need it (better and more widely available than Medicaid) , this can/should be coupled with a private medical system that (obviously) would offer a better standard of comfort of treatment and a wider range of treatments. This private medical should receive decent tax breaks (not completely the case here in the UK) to encourage people to make their own provisions.

I agree 100% with this comment, unless the US finds a way to deal with the ridiculous levels of law suits and payouts it's going to be very difficult to come up with a viable system that is going to benefit ALL the people of America.

-----------------------

Great post!

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by emmagata
It's not really a matter of agreeing or disagreeing what the Federal G. should do. It's a matter of what the Constitution allows them to do.

Which is why I asked where is the Fed Govt given that power, since the Constitution explicity defines the powers of the Fed Govt.

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by wvrevy

As to the "system" being in place to help her...no, she got EXTREMELY lucky...She got into a medical study at Duke, and it's helped defray a lot of the costs. Not enough to keep from completely ruining their financial future, but enough that she could still actually GET the treatment that she needed.

Don't get me wrong, I happy that your friend received treatment but do you think that Duke completely subsidized those programs?

 

[Toby'sFriend]

When you have nothing someone with $100,000 in the bank looks pretty wealthy but that would not be enough to pay for a patient with very severe medical problems requiring multiple complex surgeries.

Some of the newer Health Savings Accounts that are linked to Catastrophic Health Coverage addresses that problem. They also make these tax advantaged accounts available to everybody and not just the self-employed. Most people aren't aware of them however and do not use them. Some people are just not willing to sacrifice money from other parts of their budgets to save for their own health care.

I believe access to emergency life saving health care in this country is a right, but access to care beyond that is a privalege that people should be willing to insure themselves against or be willing to pay the money. As far as children, I always give to any fund I hear about where somebody is trying to raise money for a child's healthcare. Those are heartbreaking cases.

My older sister is in the Health Care industry. It is all very well to say that she should be willing to provide her services for free... but should her office and support staff also be willing to work for free? A very good portion of the dollar amount she charges for an appointment goes to pay them and her Malpractice insurance. Over the years, she has had to make room in her day to see more and more patients, just to keep up with her overhead costs. She makes a decent annual wage herself, but she is far from wealthy. At nearly 40 years old, she is just now finishing paying off the student loan debt she had to acquire to get the medical training.

The days where EVERY doctor is an automatic millinaire are long gone.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by cardaway
See, you thought we were way off when we really are not.

I think my opinion is shared by most people thinking "healthcare" should be a privilege. I doubt they are thinking of laser eye surgery or liver transplants for the gin blossoms. If they are, I'm with you in letting them live with their decisions.

My only addition to preventative health care would be things that really are unforseen and unavoidable. Basically the system that is currently in place for emergency rooms and clinics.

Just to add, this should be something the states do.

 

[cardaway]

BTW: Getting the FDA in check would be a good start. Do people realize how much their overmanagement increases the cost of medical goods and servcices in this country?

They have an obvious purpose in protecting the poeple of this country, but the people in that organization stepped over the line long ago.

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by wvrevy


Price controls are the way to fix that...and it could be made pretty simply: If you receive government aid in developing the drug, you cannot have a greater than X% markup.

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[cardaway]

Originally posted by dmadman43
Just to add, this should be something the states do.

Why? I see too much risk of variability from state to state.

 

[Deb in IA]

Originally posted by BedKnobbery2
In theory, that's true. Unfortunately, in practice there are many ways hospitals 'turn away' someone without insurance. We have a current thread as an example right here on the Dis boards:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=585656

BedKnobbery2, please show me WHERE in that thread was someone "turned away" from a hospital because they had no insurance??????


I read the entire thread. I believe Nikki did INDEED get treated. She was examined, and given a medication, and given instructions for fever management. By the way, delswife, "doing tests" and "getting treated" are not the same thing.

And regardless of why parents do not work or choose to have healthcare, children should not be left to die because their parents are irresponsible.

EsmereldaX, children are NOT "being left to die".

Medicaid is available for low-income children. The following will give more information about what Medicaid is, eligibility requirements, and service provided.

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/publications/overview-medicare-medicaid/default4.asp


For families who earn too much to qualify for Medicaid, this program was designed for this very purpose. SCHIP has been available for families who earn too much to qualify for Medicaid, but cannot afford private insurance.


http://www.cms.hhs.gov/schip/consumers_default.asp

Of course, actually getting into these programs DOES require some work, motivation, and initiative on the part of the parents. You may actually have to complete some paperwork!!! Of course, if you chose not to do so, you can always complain about not having insurance . . .


And for everyone else, there are mutitudes of private insurance companies, including Blue Cross/Blue Shield.

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by emmagata
Sounds reasonable to me.

Wait, I agree with both dmadman and emmagata on something....I think I may need to re-examine my position on this

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by wvrevy
Yes, as much as we could....They don't live near-by, but we've helped both financially and (I'd like to think, anyway) emotionally. But we're not exactly wealthy people (despite, between DW and I, making roughly twice what the couple I'm talking about make), and her medical bills are just ridiculous. There is only so much that we could do, but we've tried to do it.

That was mighty generous and compassionate of you.

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by Deb in IA
I read the entire thread. I believe Nikki did INDEED get treated. She was examined, and given a medication, and given instructions for fever management. By the way, delswife, "doing tests" and "getting treated" are not the same thing.

Of course they're not the same thing. But when the lack of tests results in the wrong treatment being provided for the wrong condition, how do you rate the quality of treatment? I vote for mf'ing poor and totally unacceptable, but maybe that's just me??

 

[BedKnobbery2]

Originally posted by Deb in IA
BedKnobbery2, please show me WHERE in that thread was someone "turned away" from a hospital because they had no insurance??????

Because she did not have health insurance, she was denied (in other words, "turned away from") treatment she would have otherwise gotten. As my post implies, they don't have to slam the door in your face to deny you treatment--there are many, more subtle ways, it can be done.

 

[Deb in IA]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
The day the doctors turned into businessmen and women in this country, instead of caring people who treated the ill was a sad day.

Well, I have been a physician for nearly 20 years now, and I know not the slightest bit about business. Wouldn't know an "accounts receivable" from an "operating margin" if they bit me on the arm.

Let's face facts, people. Hospitals NEED to be fiscally stable to remain in open! To do so, hospitals and the people who work in hospitals need to charge $$ for their services, so that they can be paid. If hospitals did not charge money, they would go bankrupt, close up, go away, and then NO ONE would get any care there anymore, now would they???