DEBATE: How Disney Can Get Back It's Market Share

[Jon360]

Apparently this post is way too much for people to handle on the Theme Parks board, so it was suggested I post on here...

Here are my top 10 suggestions for Disney to get back it's declining market share:

1) Make up with George Lucas and invest in a new Star Wars attraction at MGM Studios that will blow Spiderman away! Come on, this is one of the most valuable entertainment licenses of all time and Disney is blowing it by keeping the same outdated ride operating.

2) The Land, The Living Seas, Spaceship Earth, Journey Into Imagination, Innoventions, Wonders of Life, Universe of Energy..
Completely SCRAP these irrelevant attractions and pavilions and come up with something new. It's 2003, not 1985!

3) World Showcase - Can we try to invest in 2-3 attractions that are as high quality as the shops and restaurants found here? How about 2-3 new countries as well?

4) Animal Kingdom - Try to figure out why Busch Gardens is increasing their market share and Animal Kingdom is the park you only want to spend half a day in before getting bored with it. The majority of Disney characters are "animals". Can we come up with a few more creative e-ticket attractions?

5) Please take advantage of one of the most successful assets Disney has and let M. Night Shyamalan develop an attraction based on his hit movie "Signs" starring Mel Gibson. This includes having Mr. Gibson along with the original cast appear in the attraction.

6) Since Disney loves doing this, take Indiana Jones from Disneyland and put it into the Magic Kingdom in FL.

7) Fantasyland - If these aren't already in the works, Disney really sucks... Can we get an attraction featuring Monsters Inc? Lilo and Stitch? Stitch 3-D?

8) Tomorrowland - Scrap the carousel of progress, the timekeeper, and the transit authority. Come up with some new E-Tickets that will make me think this is tomorrowland, not yesterdayland. Install a new Space Mountain track that is more exciting.

9) Tom Sawyer Island - Scrap it. Build a new mountain. Hell call it Tom Sawyer Mountain. Have fun. Make this area of the park relevant.

10) Muppetvision and Great Movie Ride.... Scrap both and come up with completely new concepts.

Of course my prediction is that Disney will not use any of these obvious ideas, keep to their penny pinching ways, and continue losing market share.

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO MORE OFF THE SHELF CARNY RIDES!!!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

One trick pony checking in...

... All these things COULD happen (and remember I said 'could') if there is a change in management.

Until then, NONE of these things WILL happen.

 

[BluesTravlr00]

Wow. That post almost made me want to cry. Why would you try and turn WDW into a Six Flags park when there are already too many of those across the country?! Here are just a few of my comments:

2) I can see MAYBE scrapping Seas, Journey, Wonders, Universe, but Spaceship Earth? Are you joking? Maybe not everyone appreciates that ride for what it is: an epic journey through our history (as cliche as that sounds), as well as a nice cool place to sit and relax for 15 minutes.

5) How soon do you think a "Signs" attraction would be dated and forgotten? I give it 1-2 years, absolute max. The movie was thrilling and popular, but not THAT popular. Certainly not enough to merit creating an entire attraction.

8) Scrap the Carousel? It's bad enough they aren't running it year-round any more. I suppose that I could deal with a new SM track, but not one that will take away at all from the feeling that you're somewhere in space! I know that if I was moving much faster, or twisting and flipping around, everything would be a blur. It would totally ruin the ride for me.

10) No way will they get rid of Muppetvision, and no way should they. I've never been in that theater and seen it less than packed (not to mention it's hysterical). And haven't I heard that they're already scrapping the GMR?

Call me a WDW romantic or whatever, but there's a reason I choose to go to WDW instead of a much closer amusement park. I don't want thrill rides, I want atmosphere and theming that I can enjoy without going 65mph.

Granted, I don't have any ideas of my own. All I can think is that it comes down to MARKETING MARKETING MARKETING. Develop a newer campaign to remind older WDW fans what they used to love so much, or to make them want to introduce their kids to the same magic. Or, close down any of the failed Disney enterprises (shut down one cable network, for example) that Eisner just won't give up on.

My thoughts.

~CW

 

[mitros]

I'm with you !

 

[Jon360]

BluesTravlr00, you are telling me you would complain if they took out spaceship earth and replaced it with a new attraction? I'm not saying it has to be a coaster, just something NEW that doesn't bore people.

If they come up with an innovative attraction for Signs, it can be successful. "The Mummy" was a mildly successful film yet Universal is going ahead with a huge E-ticket ride for it. Disney has a good working relationship with M. Night Shyamalan and should use his talents to help create new theme park attractions.

The Carousel of Progress should be at a museum, not in Tomorrowland. Again, I'm not saying replacing it with a roller coaster, just replacing it with an attraction people will care about.

Get rid of Muppetvision as it currently exists. How about a new Muppetvision film incorporating new 3D technologies that have been created since Muppetvision was originally conceived.

Marketing isn't going to work if you don't have something new to back it up. There is competition providing brand new and exciting attractions for all age groups. (Jimmy Neutron, Shrek, and The Mummy). Marketing cannot help a bad product in the long term. While the 48th anniversary of Walt's cat being born might provide a quick-fix, it will not provide them with any long term growth.

Maybe because Disney is not spending money on new attractions , they can afford to lose market share. Maybe the market share loss isn't worth the expense to Mr. Eisner.

 

[mitros]

IMHO, I must disagree about your thoughts on CoP. It is hardly ever open anymore, but when it is, and I have been there a couple of times when it was open, it was packed. I suppose I could deal with a new show in spaceship earth, as long as it isn't a thrill ride and they don't change the exterior of the pavilion.

 

[RLevy29]

I would like to see a version of the Soaring Over California Attraction in DL. It could possibly go with the American Pavillion in Epcot.

 

[RoutemanDan]

1) Make up with George Lucas and invest in a new Star Wars attraction at MGM Studios that will blow Spiderman away! Come on, this is one of the most valuable entertainment licenses of all time and Disney is blowing it by keeping the same outdated ride operating.
<b> I agree</b>

2) The Land, The Living Seas, Spaceship Earth, Journey Into Imagination, Innoventions, Wonders of Life, Universe of Energy..
Completely SCRAP these irrelevant attractions and pavilions and come up with something new. It's 2003, not 1985!
<b>Living Seas just needs an update,Spaceship Earth Should not be touched with the exception of maintenance and updating.</b>

3) World Showcase - Can we try to invest in 2-3 attractions that are as high quality as the shops and restaurants found here? How about 2-3 new countries as well?
<b> New Attractions would be nice.</b>

4) Animal Kingdom - Try to figure out why Busch Gardens is increasing their market share and Animal Kingdom is the park you only want to spend half a day in before getting bored with it. The majority of Disney characters are "animals". Can we come up with a few more creative e-ticket attractions?
<b>Debatable</b>
5) Please take advantage of one of the most successful assets Disney has and let M. Night Shyamalan develop an attraction based on his hit movie "Signs" starring Mel Gibson. This includes having Mr. Gibson along with the original cast appear in the attraction.
<b>Agree with BluesTravlr00 on this</b>
6) Since Disney loves doing this, take Indiana Jones from Disneyland and put it into the Magic Kingdom in FL.
<b>I agree.</b>

7) Fantasyland - If these aren't already in the works, Disney really sucks... Can we get an attraction featuring Monsters Inc? Lilo and Stitch? Stitch 3-D?
<b>I agree.</b>

8) Tomorrowland - Scrap the carousel of progress, the timekeeper, and the transit authority. Come up with some new E-Tickets that will make me think this is tomorrowland, not yesterdayland. Install a new Space Mountain track that is more exciting.
<b>The only one I agree with is Timekeeper.</b>

9) Tom Sawyer Island - Scrap it. Build a new mountain. Hell call it Tom Sawyer Mountain. Have fun. Make this area of the park relevant.
<b>Something more here would be good.</b>
10) Muppetvision and Great Movie Ride.... Scrap both and come up with completely new concepts.

<b>Disagree.</b>

<b>There isn't much I would like to see Disney "scrap",instead I would like to see them add.</b>

 

[mitros]

Yow! disagree, disagree. Scrap tomorrow land transit authority? get rid of the old WEDWAY people mover?!. Come on, let us keep something Walt developed.

 

[Jon360]

Call me crazy, but don't you think Walt would be in favor of improving outdated attractions given the technology that is available today?

 

[pheneix]

There is legitimately improving attractions and then there is replacing them with one-shot thrill rides.

 

[BluesTravlr00]

Pheneix, that's my thought exactly, in 1 sentence.

After doing some more thinking, I've come up with another solution. It might not be a favorite to all, and I'm positive it's not the slightest bit economically feasible, but...
I've always said the best ride at AK is the bus to another park. Why not scrap ALL OF AK? Maybe put in the Villains theme park I've heard talked about, or some park that will cater to thrillride lovers or people like me who wouldn't mind getting thrown around on a coaster for a day.

~CW

 

[Jon360]

BluesTravlr00,

DCA would have to be scrapped well before AK.

Scrapping AK would be a dumb move because I think the park is very viable. 3-4 more A+ E-tickets and you will give a ton of new life to it.

 

[Bob O]

This isnt a marketing problem at all, smoke and mirror's cant make up for all the cutbacks and disney's intentional acts of putting no money into their parks as of late!!
I would agree they should work with George Lucas on new attractions, escpecially on the dated Indy Stunt Show and the now boring Star Tours.
I wouldnt do a clone of Indy from DL, use the same type of ride system to make something new and exciting. No more attack of the clones, unless its a new ride by George Lucas.
I think using Signs would be a great idea, a horror type show/attraction that would rreally scare people unlike Alien Adventure, a adult attraction and not for small kids.
Its too late to get rid of AK, but they should add Beastly Kingdom and other E type attractions to make the park into a full day experience.

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by Jon360

9) Tom Sawyer Island - Scrap it. Build a new mountain. Hell call it Tom Sawyer Mountain. Have fun. Make this area of the park relevant.

Relevant yes, but "Tom Sawyer Mountain?" Did you read the book? There are no mountains in or around Hannibal, Missouri. Not for many hundreds of miles. Sorry that is not a good idea thematically nor does it address the problems with this part of the park. The Tom Sawyer area needs more fun in it, yes. But young kids need a "playground" like area to blow off steam and be left to their own imaginations and energy not just led around on some track all the time. This area is perfect for this, but apparently the lawyers want to remove as much of this sort of unscripted fun as possible.

 

[Jon360]

PKS44, I've read the book. I was just using it as an example..

What about giving the Island a Hawaii feel with Lilo and Stitch as the theme with a Lilo & Stitch e-ticket?

 

[disneefamily]

Disnee Dad Says...............................Hawaii sounds like a great idea! More or less level the island bring in some sand. Probably have room for 3 or 4 smaller attractions, or a couple great ones!
Sell Puka and conch shells, and Blue Hawaiian drinks! If it's the only place at MK to get adult beverages it will be packed!
Maybe have a movie of hawaii at a small theatre. Might even get Hawaii to pay for it!

 

[seashoreCM]

1. Invest.
2. Add new stuff.

Has anyone thought about people not coming to WDW because they have pretty much seen everything? Disney needs to attract repeat visitors more, not just the next generation.

There is plenty of room for new stuff to co-exist with the old.

Example: China and Canada pavilions at Epcot and Timekeeper at MK. There can be three movies alternated in these theaters instead of just the same show.

Example (a bit more difficult because of scenery changes): Stage shows like Lion King. Have different shows in the same theater on a repertory basis.

Example: Carousel of Progress (may work with other rides too) Add new side scenes but a differnet combination of scenes appears for any given audience. (I haven't ridden it but was told that Tower of Terror gives different ride experiences each time.)

Move Tomorrowland Transit AUthority to Downtown Disney, running between Marketplace and West side. This will make the buses run more efficiently, stopping at Westside only or Marketplace only and miss all that traffic. This way they can keep TTA and still use the space in Tomorrowland for something else.

More Disney tips:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

9/65 Disneyland
3/75 World Inn (now Doubletree Club)
4/85 Kon-Tiki (now Econolodge Hawaiian)
'80s Disneyland once or twice
7/94 Dixie Landings (now Port Orleans Riverside)
9/97 All Star Music
11/98 ASMu & first premium annual pass
12/98 Knights Inn on 192
9/99 All Star Movies
12/00 All Star Sports & PAP#2
9/01 ASSp
11/01 ASSp
1/03 Motel 6 & ASSp & PAP#3
11/03 Pop Century planned

 

[Sarangel]

First, welcome to our little corner of the DIS, Jon360. I think you'll fit in nicely. Now on to the rebuttal:

1) Make up with George Lucas and invest in a new Star Wars attraction at MGM Studios that will blow Spiderman away! Come on, this is one of the most valuable entertainment licenses of all time and Disney is blowing it by keeping the same outdated ride operating.

Only one teeny tiny problem with this... Well, OK, there are two. First, George Lucas doesn't want to work with Disney any longer since they've broken too many promises to him. Second, Disney doesn't want to work with George Lucas any more, since they see him as too demanding.

2) The Land, The Living Seas, Spaceship Earth, Journey Into Imagination, Innoventions, Wonders of Life, Universe of Energy..
Completely SCRAP these irrelevant attractions and pavilions and come up with something new. It's 2003, not 1985!

Both Spaceship Earth and JIYI have a fairly loyal following, and continue to bring in crowds, why would you want to scrap something that so many people enjoy? Surely you don't mean to build a park based solely on your desires? I will agree that much of futureworld needs improvement, but starting over from scratch seems pretty drastic, not to mention being highly inefficient.

3) World Showcase - Can we try to invest in 2-3 attractions that are as high quality as the shops and restaurants found here? How about 2-3 new countries as well?

Can you recommend 2-3 countries that are willing to fork over the bucks to sponsor a showcase country? Disney won't pay for this kind of installation regardless of who's in charge (they'd have a riot on their hands from the other countries who have paid up, for starters)

4) Animal Kingdom - Try to figure out why Busch Gardens is increasing their market share and Animal Kingdom is the park you only want to spend half a day in before getting bored with it. The majority of Disney characters are "animals". Can we come up with a few more creative e-ticket attractions?

Yes, AK needs new attractions, but nothing is likely to be built under the current reigeme (check out some of the other threads, you'll find this a fairly consistant topic). However, why would you want a Busch Gardens? Ewwww....

5) Please take advantage of one of the most successful assets Disney has and let M. Night Shyamalan develop an attraction based on his hit movie "Signs" starring Mel Gibson. This includes having Mr. Gibson along with the original cast appear in the attraction.

"most successful assets"? Do you really think that over a period of years that "Signs" will be more successful than "Snow White"? Or "Lion King"? Remember also, that one of the main points to being Disney is that the *whole* family can visit attractions together. This doesn't work for me.

6) Since Disney loves doing this, take Indiana Jones from Disneyland and put it into the Magic Kingdom in FL.

Surely you jest. One of the things *wrong* with the company right now is this emphasis on 'cloning' rides at different parks. IF Disney could allocate the budget for something like this, and IF they could design a compelling ride, why would you want a duplicate? Let them put in something similar, if you must, but please don't advocate making duplicates.

7) Fantasyland - If these aren't already in the works, Disney really sucks... Can we get an attraction featuring Monsters Inc? Lilo and Stitch? Stitch 3-D?

Why should Disney invest any further in characters that will promote the competition by the time they are finished? (The buzz is that the Disney/Pixar partnership is on the way out).

8) Tomorrowland - Scrap the carousel of progress, the timekeeper, and the transit authority. Come up with some new E-Tickets that will make me think this is tomorrowland, not yesterdayland. Install a new Space Mountain track that is more exciting.

If they're going to work on a Tomorrowland, let them start with DL's. At least WDW's has a few open attractions, all DL has right now is the Astro Obiter, Space Mountain, Star Tours, and "Honey, I Shrunk the Audience." (speaking of dated attractions). By my count, WDW's Tomorrowland is at least 3 attractions stronger, and that doesn't account for the 'lame-oid' factor of DL's rides.

9) Tom Sawyer Island - Scrap it. Build a new mountain. Hell call it Tom Sawyer Mountain. Have fun. Make this area of the park relevant.

Do you have kids? They really do need unstructured play space, and this is the only place in the Magic Kingdom they can get it. I agree, as an adult, that the space is pretty boring, but I think it needs to stay.

10) Muppetvision and Great Movie Ride.... Scrap both and come up with completely new concepts.

I really can't agree with this either, perhaps one of our numbers folks can give you throughput estimates, but my sense is that these two attractions still bring in a lot of guests, and removing them wouldn't make any sense.

Of course my prediction is that Disney will not use any of these obvious ideas, keep to their penny pinching ways, and continue losing market share.

Settle in, read some of the other threads, you'll find this attitude pretty common in this neck of the woods. The biggest question seems to be whether it would be better or worse after Eisner is replaced.

Sarangel

 

[Bob O]

Dnnsey needs to use the Pixar creatio/characters because they have been unable to creat any new ones on their own that are up to that type of quality and they are relevant to the kids growing up today.
And i dont know if the poster meant Busch gardens Tampa of Busch gardens Williamsburg but Busch Gardens williamsburg is a beautiful park and up to disney's standards when in comes to theming of the park.
And their is no reason to believe that L & S wont become dated much sooner than Signs which did better box office and disney needs to add more in their parks for adults to enjoy as they are overrun with attractions for the ankle biters already!!!