Debate: Free speech a two-way street in school?

[treesinger]

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38758

Student told: 'Leave your faith in the car'
Officials suspend boy who wore T-shirt critical of homosexuality

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Posted: June 3, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern



© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

A federal civil-rights lawsuit was filed yesterday on behalf of a Southern California high-school student who was punished for wearing a T-shirt expressing his opposition to homosexuality on a day set aside to honor the alternate lifestyle.

The Alliance Defense Fund, the legal group representing Poway High School student Chase Harper, said in a statement the young man's free-speech and religious rights were violated in April when he was suspended from school for one day for wearing the homemade T-shirt. According to the suit, a school administrator told the student: "Leave your faith in the car" when your beliefs might offend others.

"In this age of alleged tolerance, such a statement is disappointing, to put it mildly," said Robert Tyler, counsel with the Alliance Defense Fund. "Public school students don't surrender their First Amendment rights when they enter the building. When are public school officials going to learn they are not allowed to silence constitutionally protected student speech just because they disagree with the student? This is unconstitutional suppression of speech and an illegal suspension from school."

According to the complaint, Harper was pulled out of class in the morning and held in a small office for the day. His parents were finally called at the end of the school day, ADF says. Before his release, the student was questioned by a deputy sheriff, who took pictures of him and the shirt.

Harper, 16, a student in the Poway Unified School District, had hand-lettered the front of his shirt to read: "Be Ashamed" and "Our School Embraced What God Has Condemned." The back of the shirt read: "Homosexuality is Shameful" and "Romans 1:27."

First of all, this post isn't about whether homosexuality is right or wrong. What it IS about is this quote...

"According to the suit, a school administrator told the student: "Leave your faith in the car" when your beliefs might offend others. "

Isn't that a bit hypocritical? The adminstrator says to "leave your beliefs in the car" but the school doesn't have to leave it's beliefs about homosexuality out of school? By having this day at school, they are de facto saying that it's ok to be homosexual and kids should be taught as such. This kid with the t-shirt brought his message that it is NOT ok, but he isn't allowed to express it?

I think that we've gone so over-the-top PC and are so afraid of looking intolerant about ANYTHING that anyone with an un-PC viewpoint is roundly criticized and silenced. It is NOT fair! If one side gets to make a presentation, the other side should be allowed to express how they feel about it.

 

[ripleysmom]

I agree that the boy should have been allowed to express his opinion.

 

[Betsyt82]

The school was wrong in silencing that kid. It is freedom of speech for all not for perspective.

 

[Maleficent13]

Assuming the t-shirt was within the limits of the published dress code for the school, he should have been allowed to wear it. I personally don't like the shirt, but I dislike the concept behind prohibiting him to wear it even more.

 

[Sirius]

A. The student wore the shirt to express his religious opinion and create controversy.
B. Students do not shed their rights at the school door. However, in the case of Tinker v. Des Moines, the Supreme Court of the United States decided that student political speech could not be restricted unless school officials could prove that the speech "would materially and substantially interfere with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the school" or impinge upon the rights of other students. Both of these seem to come into play here.

I think the administration was well within its rights. If, however, the shirt read only "Romans 1:27" or made reference to his religion, they would not have been able to take any action.

Side Note: I hate censorship.

 

[cynsaun]

I respectfully have to disagree! If the shirt had been derogatory about African Americans it wouldn't have been allowed at all as it would be found racist. It is fairness to all ethnicities, sexual preferences, and genders.

I think our "rights" to free speech has gotten out of hand. We do have the rights to express ourselves, but NOT at the expense of a group of people!

 

[EsmeraldaX]

It seems like more and more there is Freedom of Speech but only if you agree with the values of the ACLU & fanatical partisans.

For instance in my company, I am not allowed to critize the fact that we have 5 or 6 women who do nothing all day long (and get paid for it) but sit around yapping in Spanish. They do this primarily to talk about co-workers and non work related things (I speak spanish pretty well and I understand 90% of what they are saying). Not to mention the fact that it's just rude considering all of them are American born English speakers. They only talk in spanish to talk about people and to be exclusive (instead of "diverse")

Well I was told if I ever made a comment about it again I would be fired immediately for harrassment. However, they are allowed to yap in Spanish day in and day out because of freedom of speech.

I am also frequently shot down at work for my views on hot topics.

It's freedom of speech alright, but only if you agree with whatever group runs the place where you're speaking in

 

[wdwdvcdad]

Originally posted by Sirius
A. The student wore the shirt to express his religious opinion and create controversy.
B. Students do not shed their rights at the school door. However, in the case of Tinker v. Des Moines, the Supreme Court of the United States decided that student political speech could not be restricted unless school officials could prove that the speech "would materially and substantially interfere with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the school" or impinge upon the rights of other students. Both of these seem to come into play here.

I think the administration was well within its rights. If, however, the shirt read only "Romans 1:27" or made reference to his religion, they would not have been able to take any action.

Side Note: I hate censorship.

absolutely, positively, 100% correct.

 

[Maleficent13]

Originally posted by cynsaun
I respectfully have to disagree! If the shirt had been derogatory about African Americans it wouldn't have been allowed at all as it would be found racist. It is fairness to all ethnicities, sexual preferences, and genders.

I think our "rights" to free speech has gotten out of hand. We do have the rights to express ourselves, but NOT at the expense of a group of people!

I also respectfully disagree, but with you. Free speech is the right to express yourself. If you try to limit it to "not at the expence of a group of people", where do you draw the line at which group of people you are allowed to express yourself about and which you are not?

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by Maleficent13
I also respectfully disagree, but with you. Free speech is the right to express yourself. If you try to limit it to "not at the expence of a group of people", where do you draw the line at which group of people you are allowed to express yourself about and which you are not?

 

[jrydberg]

We do have the rights to express ourselves, but NOT at the expense of a group of people!

How is expressing an opinion coming at the expense of anyone? The kid isn't going around *doing* anything to anyone.

I also find it very difficult to believe that a student with such a t-shirt either infringed upon the rights of others or interfered with the requirements of appropriate discipline. What rights did wearing that t-shirt violate? The right not to be offended? No such thing. How did it interfere with school operation? It did not.

 

[Sirius]

Personally, I think it abhorrent to belittle or intimidate others. I find it repugnant and hypocritical when people espousing their religious beliefs do nothing more than judge those around them.

As for the notion that it’s only free speech if you agree the people who "run the place where you're speaking in," you may have a point. President Bush never sees the people who disagree with him. They are relegated to “Free Speech Zones” out of site while Bush supporters are always front and center.

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by Maleficent13
I also respectfully disagree, but with you. Free speech is the right to express yourself. If you try to limit it to "not at the expence of a group of people", where do you draw the line at which group of people you are allowed to express yourself about and which you are not?

I think you have said it all! Some groups have more "free speech" than other groups. Gee, doesn't that sound like a paraphrased quote from Orwell's Animal Farm?

 

[Maleficent13]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
I think you have said it all! Some groups have more "free speech" than other groups. Gee, doesn't that sound like a paraphrased quote from Orwell's Animal Farm?

"All pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others."

Love that book!

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by Sirius
Personally, I think it abhorrent to belittle or intimidate others. I find it repugnant and hypocritical when people espousing their religious beliefs do nothing more than judge those around them.

As for the notion that it’s only free speech if you agree the people who "run the place where you're speaking in," you may have a point. President Bush never sees the people who disagree with him. They are relegated to “Free Speech Zones” out of site while Bush supporters are always front and center.

You think it's abhorrent as long as they agree with you, right?

Let me tell you, you would be quite happy at my place of employment. They all feel the same way. If you are critical of political correctness or if you voice a moderate to conservative opinion here, you are in big, big trouble. he other day, I spoke out against partial birth abortion and all the pro-choicers at my work basically told me I was an ignorant, hateful and cruel woman hater ( I AM a woman and an agnostic by the way, so before you go saying that I'm a right wing religious nutcase, think that over).

They to think a lot of stuff they disagree with is abhorrent.

And FYI, I don't know if you watch any of the major cable news channels, or read any big newspapers or internet news sites, but last time I checked, most of the media and groups like the NAACP and ACLU were quite front and center and they are most certainly not Bush supporters.

 

[Doug123]

Originally posted by Sirius
Personally, I think it abhorrent to belittle or intimidate others. I find it repugnant and hypocritical when people espousing their religious beliefs do nothing more than judge those around them.

Hypocritical is right. Maybe this kid and his parents should do a bit more research into what they say they believe.

Part of me wants to allow the shirt, using it as a learning opportunity about intolerance and some people's beliefs. Though part of me certainly doesn't want to allow hate messages in the school either. SOME line has to be drawn, obviously.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by Doug123
Hypocritical is right. Maybe this kid and his parents should do a bit more research into what they say they believe.

I think I would have allowed the shirt, and used it as a learning tool about intolerance and some people's beliefs.

Sounds like you are awfully intolerant of his beliefs.

By the way, I am pro gay marriage and I have no problem with gay people.

But that doesn't change the fact that I respect EVERYONE'S right to their opinion. You apparently think that those who you disagree with should be made an example of.

 

[wvrevy]

If this kid had worn a shirt proclaiming the superior qualities of the white race on Martin Luther King's birthday, I'd be interested in how you people defending him would feel then.

Plain and simple: the shirt was intended to degrade fellow students, so it crossed the line in what should be "acceptable" in a school. Just because it agrees with your particular religious belief doesn't chang that.

How about if he'd worn a shirt that read "Fags go home"...would that have been acceptable to you too, or is it only ok because he put that stupid bible verse on there ?

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by wvrevy
If this kid had worn a shirt proclaiming the superior qualities of the white race on Martin Luther King's birthday, I'd be interested in how you people defending him would feel then.

Plain and simple: the shirt was intended to degrade fellow students, so it crossed the line in what should be "acceptable" in a school. Just because it agrees with your particular religious belief doesn't chang that.

How about if he'd worn a shirt that read "Fags go home"...would that have been acceptable to you too, or is it only ok because he put that stupid bible verse on there ?

What if he'd worn a shirt depicting the superior qualities of the black race?

Either way, I say freedom of speech is freedom of speech. So long as he's not acting upon his hate and physically hurting someone, let the fellow students ignore him/not be his friend. But do not bar his freedom to say whatever he wants.

 

[jrydberg]

I don't care what a kid wears in school, as long as it doesn't have profanity on it. It could say, "I hate DISboard folks! They are the bane of my existence!" and I'd defend his right to wear it.

Is it only acceptable to express an opinion that most believe to be correct?

As I said before, there is no right to not be offended. I'm sure some are offended by the American flag. You gonna ban that on t-shirts too?

stupid bible verse on there ?

Ahhh, I can feel the warm glow of tolerance