Debate: Free speech a two-way street in school?

[spagheddie]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
Well I was told if I ever made a comment about it again I would be fired immediately for harrassment. However, they are allowed to yap in Spanish day in and day out because of freedom of speech.

I am also frequently shot down at work for my views on hot topics.

It's freedom of speech alright, but only if you agree with whatever group runs the place where you're speaking in

Your company is well within their right to discipline you if your creating a disruptive work environment.

This is an example where people miss the point regarding freedom of speech. Your company isn't going to throw you in jail because of what you say. They aren't even saying you can't voice those opinions. All they're saying is that you better be able to live with the consequences.

 

[MHopkins2]

Esmerelda, you may be getting the reaction you got at work because you're focusing on the ladies speaking Spanish. I think you'd get a more favorable response if you focused on their gossiping to the exclusion of getting work done, and left out the (totally irrelevant IMO) details about the language they're using.

Plus, if I were you, I'd be glad they were speaking Spanish - since you can speak it too, you can bust them for talking **** about people when they think they're getting away with it!

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
Esmerelda, you may be getting the reaction you got at work because you're focusing on the ladies speaking Spanish. I think you'd get a more favorable response if you focused on their gossiping to the exclusion of getting work done, and left out the (totally irrelevant IMO) details about the language they're using.

Plus, if I were you, I'd be glad they were speaking Spanish - since you can speak it too, you can bust them for talking **** about people when they think they're getting away with it!

I tried stressing that; that they were using their language to speak ill of co-workers.

But the HR dept. only caught on when I said They are speaking in Spanish...and stopped listening after that.

I was informed I was a racist and that I was harrassing the Spanish speakers.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by spagheddie
Your company is well within their right to discipline you if your creating a disruptive work environment.

This is an example where people miss the point regarding freedom of speech. Your company isn't going to throw you in jail because of what you say. They aren't even saying you can't voice those opinions. All they're saying is that you better be able to live with the consequences.

I sit quietly at my desk all day long and am one of , if not the MOST productive person in my dept.

I do not take personal phone calls, have loud conversations with other people in the hallways, and gossip.

I complained quietly to the head of HR and tried to stress that the women are using their language to gossip rudely about co-workers.

How is that causing a disruptive work environment?

 

[dennis99ss]

How is this "on topic"

The debate board was removed for a reason. One likely being space debates take up, second the nastiness that occurs, and third the fact that they had nothing at all to do with the other DIS boards. I for one would like to keep the DIS boards up, so, cut the debates.

 

[cynsaun]

Originally posted by Maleficent13
I also respectfully disagree, but with you. Free speech is the right to express yourself. If you try to limit it to "not at the expence of a group of people", where do you draw the line at which group of people you are allowed to express yourself about and which you are not?

Why do we always need to express ourselves about a group of people and the beliefs that they may have? They have a right to their beliefs, as well do I, but do I need to bash them for their beliefs, of course not!

The Constitution has been manipulated into whatever people or a particular cause wants it to be. The main idea behind free speech wasn't to single out and bash a group because of their beliefs. The main idea was that a person could not agree with their government without the fear of persecution!

If someone doesn't agree with what someone else believes in, well so be it! But, no one should minimize that person's beliefs and make rude remarks and statements (I am referring to the shirt this kid was wearing!)

 

[Doug123]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
Sounds like you are awfully intolerant of his beliefs.

By the way, I am pro gay marriage and I have no problem with gay people.

But that doesn't change the fact that I respect EVERYONE'S right to their opinion. You apparently think that those who you disagree with should be made an example of.

I FULLY support freedom of speech, and the tolerance of people's religious beliefs, but a public school is a slightly different animal. A lot can be said in the "name of religion" (and I'm not just talking about the Christian religion here). Do you support allowing a kid to say or wear ANYTHING that falls under that category? Anything?

As I said, I think it was a good learning opportunity. It's too bad that the administration didn't recognize that fact.

 

[jrydberg]

cut the debates.

Gonna have to go with no on this one. Debates within the guidelines are perfectly acceptable.

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by dennis99ss
How is this "on topic"

The debate board was removed for a reason. One likely being space debates take up, second the nastiness that occurs, and third the fact that they had nothing at all to do with the other DIS boards. I for one would like to keep the DIS boards up, so, cut the debates.

As I've already posted once today, we have been specifically told by mods and WMs that we are free to debate here, as long as we follow the board guidelines. This post is particularly egregious in a thread with the word "Debate" right in the thread title. If you don't want to read it, don't click it.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

as someone already pointed out, there's a lot of law about students and first aemendment rights. I think the shirt was a little extreme, but it didn't cross the line. I think the school overreacted.

 

[cynsaun]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
I think you have said it all! Some groups have more "free speech" than other groups. Gee, doesn't that sound like a paraphrased quote from Orwell's Animal Farm?

I completely agree with this, and this is EXACTLY my point! It isn't right for ANY group to have more free speech than another group! I think EsmeraldaX agreed with what Malificent was asking me, and I think you are misunderstanding what I am trying to say!

I don't think any group should be given special privileges over another group in being allowed to "have more free speech." That was exactly my point!

I guess even though I majored in English, I failed in getting my point across!

 

[cynsaun]

Originally posted by Doug123
I FULLY support freedom of speech, and the tolerance of people's religious beliefs, but a public school is a slightly different animal. A lot can be said in the "name of religion" (and I'm not just talking about the Christian religion here). Do you support allowing a kid to say or wear ANYTHING that falls under that category? Anything?

As I said, I think it was a good learning opportunity. It's too bad that the administration didn't recognize that fact.

But see, here's where this doesn't work. Separation of Church and State! Unfortunately, this was a PUBLIC (government and tax payer funded), and you can't bring in religious beliefs.

And, I don't think this kid's parents would have taken too kindly to having their kid be made an example!

 

[cynsaun]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
I tried stressing that; that they were using their language to speak ill of co-workers.

But the HR dept. only caught on when I said They are speaking in Spanish...and stopped listening after that.

I was informed I was a racist and that I was harrassing the Spanish speakers.

It's very unfortunate that you HR department is treating you like this! This is a classic example of one group getting the opportunity to have more free speech than another, it turns into reverse discrimination!

And, that is deplorable that they informed you that you were a racist!

 

[Doug123]

Originally posted by cynsaun
But see, here's where this doesn't work. Separation of Church and State! Unfortunately, this was a PUBLIC (government and tax payer funded), and you can't bring in religious beliefs. And, I don't think this kid's parents would have taken too kindly to having their kid be made an example!

I am ALL IN FAVOR OF separation of church and state. However, where do you draw the line? Wearing a cross around your neck is allowed, right (even if it's showing)? As another poster pointed out, I'd like to see the dress code for the school to make any final decisions.

Also, I would think the parents of the kid would have loved for the school to highlight their beliefs. Why else would they have given it to him to wear on a day celebrating diversity? If the school hadn't been discussing the roadblocks to diversity, they should have been doing so.

 

[Maleficent13]

Originally posted by cynsaun
I completely agree with this, and this is EXACTLY my point! It isn't right for ANY group to have more free speech than another group! I think EsmeraldaX agreed with what Malificent was asking me, and I think you are misunderstanding what I am trying to say!

I don't think any group should be given special privileges over another group in being allowed to "have more free speech." That was exactly my point!

I guess even though I majored in English, I failed in getting my point across!

I think I'm still confused (not trying to be contrary, honest!). So what you're saying is that no one should have free speech, to make it all fair?

 

[cynsaun]

Originally posted by Doug123
I am ALL IN FAVOR OF separation of church and state. However, where do you draw the line? Wearing a cross around your neck is allowed, right (even if it's showing)? As another poster pointed out, I'd like to see the dress code for the school to make any final decisions.

Also, I would think the parents of the kid would have loved for the school to highlight their beliefs. Why else would they have given it to him to wear on a day celebrating diversity? If the school hadn't been discussing the roadblocks to diversity, they should have been doing so.

I completely agree with you, but I think if the cross on a necklace is tiny, not everyone is going to see it. However, if a student walks in with a glaringly obvious shirt or HUGE cross, that is different. Many muslim girls have to wear scarves over their heads, too, but the scarves don't say "death to infidels" on them! It is a very thin line, and is a tough call!

The parents probably would have loved it so they could sue the school for discrimination! Somehow I have a hard time grasping that they were promoting diversity by allowing him to wear that shirt, it's actually the complete opposite!

 

[treesinger]

I think the whole point is "what is good for the goose is good for the gander."

If the school is allowed to have a "gay acceptance" day, the student should be allowed to voice his displeasure. If they don't want the controversey, they should do away with "gay acceptance" day.

If the school has a right to indoctrinate, the student has a right to resist. If the school makes no attempt to indoctrinate, then the student has no right to complain.

 

[cynsaun]

Originally posted by Maleficent13
I think I'm still confused (not trying to be contrary, honest!). So what you're saying is that no one should have free speech, to make it all fair?

No, I'm not trying to say that no one should have free speech, but I don't think that free speech regarding the bashing of another group, which ends up alienating them, is right! That was my whole point, just poorly written!

 

[cynsaun]

Originally posted by treesinger


If the school is allowed to have a "gay acceptance" day, the student should be allowed to voice his displeasure. If they don't want the controversey, they should do away with "gay acceptance" day.

Did I miss something? Where did it say the school was having a "gay acceptance" day?

 

[Maleficent13]

Originally posted by cynsaun
Did I miss something? Where did it say the school was having a "gay acceptance" day?

I believe that was mentioned in the OP (first paragraph of his article quote).