DEBATE:Contemporary Observation Deck (All in all it’s just another brick in the wall)

[YoHo]

Don't ever let it be said that I approve of this particular perk being taken away. I just have to wonder about the fire code.

And perhaps there is always a magical solution, I don't know. Assuming they can't have that many people up there (which really does make sense to me based on the size of the space.) Though I think moving it to another space is a reasonable solution.


I don't know, it sucks all around.

 

[d-r]

DVC-LandBaron.

I came back and edited to delete out what I originally posted because I was afraid it might sound too harsh, and really that isn't my intention.

I find it very frustrating that you will quickly say "WRONG!" or "you just don't know Disney history" and then you will provide nothing to back up your opinion. In fact, some of these things you have pronounced "WRONG!" in this thread have been contradicted on this very thread. I believe that you have a difficult time understanding that other people may have perceptions that differ from your own. Although the CG isn't my personal favorite restaurant, there are many people who find it one of the best restaurants in central Florida; I no longer live in central Florida so I am not one of those people; the local newspapers, Zagat's etc. are who I am referring to.

A few days ago I posted a note to this thread in which I tried to say that I could understand that people have different perceptions about this, particularly that the lounge and restaurant are separate. I still do not agree with that view, but I understand how people could have seen things differently. When I posted recently that I didn't agree, you continued to post that I was wrong.

I maintain that the entire area was and is the California Grill - restaurants, lounge, etc. Perhaps you have never been to a restuarant that has a lounge, I don't know. In the post I deleted out, I made the point that the lounge was called "The California Grill Lounge," that the wine you drink in the "lounge" is poured from the same bottles as that you drink in the "restaurant," that the staff is the same, and that the money you pay go into the cash register. Yet you wish to continue to maintain a false distinction between the lounge area and the restaurant. Fine.

Although I agreed with your 100 number (and in fact I would suggest that the average number is probably a good deal lower) I also pointed out some fundamental problems with your math - the tables don't have only one seating per night, and fireworks don't show every night. And your statement that these "extra" tables caused crowds and congestion (rather than people coming to see the fireworks) is ironic when you argue so strongly that is such a small number of people. But it doesn't really matter. The ultimate point that I would have came back to is that there was no control over a situation in which more people wanted to use a resource than could safely or comfortably do so, and limiting access to that balcony to people actually dining in the restaurant that it is connected to and accessed from was a sound idea.

But I honestly believe that you do not have the ability to see anyone else's point of view. You do not like the California Grill, you would prefer to go to Chef Mickey's. Somehow an overpriced restaurant is a bad deal, but an overpriced buffet with characters is not. That is your point of view and you are welcome to it. I will not go to Chef Mickey's and stand in front of your table in an attempt to see those characters for free. I really don't care if you can't accept the point of view of people who enjoy the restaurant and are happy for this change. Please feel free to complain as much as you would like.

I've noticed that near here there is one of those traditional sort of Japanese rock gardens, where they rake the sand each day in patterns, and I plan to go there and argue with one of the larger rocks rather than continue this here.

I hope that you are able to enjoy your next walt disney world visit. I hope that you will be able to understand that there are thousands of other families at walt disney world while you are there, and the way that they wish to experience their vacation may not be the same as yours. And I very much hope that something happens at wdw that you will percieve as a positive change and that you will receive a great deal of happiness from.

Thanks,
DR

 

[HB2K]

DR-

I'm having the same reaction Buzz had to Woody in TS1 after reading your post....

"What a sad, strange poster". (QUOTE MODIFIED TO REDUCE FLAME FACTOR)

If you don't like the conversation, don't read it....

And for that last post, are you deliberatly trying to stir up a flame war? If it was accidental, that's one thing but sheesh....I thought we were all more grown up than petty flaming.

 

[d-r]

actually, I don't think I started the flaming. But anyway, I edited the first post, I guess I was doing that while you were posting this. I hope it meets with your approval and you find it less sad and strange.

DR

 

[DisneyKidds]

Just another brick...ah, never mind.

I'm with you, Matt . On this one I might go more with "All in all it's just a.....nother tiny chip 'o mortar in the wall". Brick gives this one too much weight, IMHO - but I know..............chip, chip, chip..............

ps - don't the waiters at CG ask you how you can have any pudding if you don't eat your soup? .

 

[YoHo]

Not to stir the pot, but in a loune you are generally not REQUIRED to purchase anything to be there. You are not seated, you seat yourself. A lounge by its very nature has less control over the patrons and that is why it worked as a place to see the fireworks.

 

[slam_mjg]

Originally posted by HB2K
DR-

I'm having the same reaction Buzz had to Woody in TS1 after reading your post....

"What a sad, strange poster". (QUOTE MODIFIED TO REDUCE FLAME FACTOR)

If I remember TS1 correctly, Buzz said that line to Woody, right after Woody told Buzz the truth. Buzz was the delusional one, believing that he was "real" instead of a toy. Woody was frustrated by Buzz's inablility to accept the truth and that's what made Woody go off on his tirade in that scene.

Good analogy HB2K. Just like Woody, DR is ranting but ultimately correct.

 

[HB2K]

LOL....

Hey, you believe what you believe, I'll believe what I'll believe, and we'll debate it like adults.

That's all I ask.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

d-r,

I came back and edited to delete out what I originally posted because I was afraid it might sound too harsh, and really that isn't my intention.

My friend, how sad!!! Last night I did indeed see your post and copied it for an appropriate response. Which means, of course, that I have the only remaining copy on the planet!!!

And during lunch today I crafted the perfect response!! One that undoubtedly would change the course of human evolution!! The secrets of the universe were at last revealed and the meaning of life was finally defined in hard, human and understandable terms!! Easily it would have changed your mind and I daresay I pictured you leading the charge up to the observation deck on a one man crusade to open it again to the public!! Alas! In all fairness I cannot print it as you changed yours.

But I gotta say, I like this post much better!! Thank you!

Now you say in this post…

I find it very frustrating that you will quickly say "WRONG!"

… and… Yada, yada, yada!! Some more stuff about my opinions and…

And you know something!? YOU ARE RIGHT!!! I have indeed mis-communicated on this thread and I offer an apology to you! I don’t think I’m usually that terse (but heck, maybe I’m wrong here too), but this time I certainly was!!

But I honestly believe that you do not have the ability to see anyone else's point of view. You do not like the California Grill, you would prefer to go to Chef Mickey's

No. Not really. I don’t particularly like either (though my kids much prefer the characters). And I suppose you’re right about not seeing anyone else’s point of view. But I come by it honestly! I really, fundamentally, have a problem with an issue like this because to me it is soooooooooo transparently about money that I can’t understand how everyone can’t see it! And it also, in my mind, reeks of the current Disney® philosophy, which doesn’t even try to solve problems creatively (heck AV gave two or three examples, just off the cuff) but instead reaches for the easy answer of profit centers. And quite frankly, THAT DRIVES ME CRAZY!!!!

In my mind the cause and effect are simple. ALL managers of WDW have a mandate to increase revenue and cut expenses. That is a hard, cold reality. So I picture a middle manager desperately trying to increase his bottom line. If you are the manager of the CG or maybe the Contemporary the answer is easy. More tables!! The side effect, which I’m sure no one really contemplated, was a bad SHOW for those additional diners!

And they solve it the easy way. Screw the people that have had the tradition for 30 years! (Now please know that there’s a bit of hyperbole in this, but I think you get the point. At least I hope so.) And to me this is the fundamental difference in the Disney philosophy which drew me to the company in the first place and the current, ‘commodity magic’ that is so prevalent in the ‘new and improved’ Disney®. And for the life of me, I can’t understand how anyone who fell for that company in the first place can’t help but feel a little disappointed by this type of thing.

Again, nothing that would stop anyone from going in the first place. Just. “Another brick in the wall”!! And very indicative of the new way of doing business with Disney®.

I've noticed that near here there is one of those traditional sort of Japanese rock gardens, where they rake the sand each day in patterns, and I plan to go there and argue with one of the larger rocks rather than continue this here.

God!! I wish I had one of those here!! I could have used it last night and over lunch today!! Do you think that perhaps, just maybe, going out on a limb, that while I may have been a wee bit (or even too much) terse, and admittedly single minded, you may have also, once in a while at least (maybe) misunderstood something and possibly put up a few walls of your own? Just a working hypothesis, nothing etched in granite! (pun intended!!)

And I very much hope that something happens at wdw that you will percieve as a positive change and that you will receive a great deal of happiness from.

I keep waiting for that “positive” change and it just doesn’t happen. Maybe you can tell me some that you perceive!!

 

[renknt]

If memory serves the resturant is not very good, service poor, view great

but the best was the company the Baron, Sarangel, and thedscoop



Who could ask for anything more...

 

[d-r]

DVCLandBaron-
Thank you so much for your kind and gracious reply. Your post truly helped me to further understand your view, and I can understand your frustration. Also, of course I readily agree that there were things that I did not misunderstood, and that I over-reacted in a rude manner at times. I apologize for this. I apologize more strongly that you spent so much time preparing a response; I can only hope that you at least had some good spirits in preparing it, rather than feeling negatively for a day.

You said: "I keep waiting for that “positive” change and it just doesn’t happen. Maybe you can tell me some that you perceive!!"

I noticed recently that you reported on a separate thread that you enjoyed the increased character displays at park opening times, and that you thought this was a postive move. For me, the best thing on my most recent trip to walt disney world was that they had HO scale wdw railroads and stations. I know that this may not sound like much, but I have been working on a wdw layout, and this was a wonderful thing for me! It also, in a small way, was a very good sign to me, because this is a toy that is not designed for young children (as with the previous wdw toy trains), but was instead designed for older children and adults. This made me hopeful that trends in merchandising that I had noticed, such as focusing on cheap toys and plush, might be reversed in some small way to include more adult, hobbyist, enthusiast merchandise. So to me this was very positive, but I'm not sure if others would understand my excitement. They even included the round Mickey face in flowers for in front of the station!! I had been thinking about how to do that for my layout, and the inclusion indicated such a thoughtful attention to detail by merchandising!

There are other things that I think are positive, but I am not sure that you might; like I was glad to hear that there were e-nights, but I know that some do not favor them.

Oh, they had a porter at big river.

DR

 

[YoHo]

As an avid model railroader I would like to point out, that those model train sets are not what I would call high quality and the detail sucks. For my money, I'd pick up the G scale Ernest S Marsh engine.

 

[DC7800]

Originally posted by YoHo
For my money, I'd pick up the G scale Ernest S Marsh engine.

I Don't know about anyone else, but if I took all the money I'd ever spent in WDW, I might be able to afford a house big enough to hold my dream layout in G scale! My HO empire will already be the largest room in the house (ok, here's hoping...).

 

[YoHo]

Wow, there are other Model railroaders here?!?!

Cool.

When I looked at the HO stuff I didn't catch the manufacturer. Is it Bachman?

The Detail is bad. for the time and effort it would take to make it reasonably Authentic, you could by a kit and paint it.

 

[d-r]

Actually, I had been thinking about buying a kit and painting it, before they came out with the HO scale. Let me be more clear. I'm not an aavid old school model train person who happened to decide to make a wdw. Not by any means. This is the first model train that I'm playing with, and I had long ago decided that I didn't want to make a "photo-realistic" model - would such a layout include back stage area? Would it be like a satalite photo? Or would it be like a translation of a guide map? I'm going closer to the guildemap, with an impressionistic layout. I had finally bitten the bullet and just decided to buy the big battery train. I was more problematic with the station - I had been looking for months for an similar station that was reasonably priced enough to try to kit bash. SO - to me - these were god sends and exactly what I wanted. When I said that they included the Mickey gardent thing, I meant that it was including the kind of detail that a disney fan would want - that was a great touch - not the detail of the building itself - it is a plastic model. I'm not going to let you all get on my happiness on this - it is freaking awesome.

DR

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Excuse me YoHo!! Can I get this thread back on track!?

... Get it!?... TRACK!!... Train track!!

Ahem….. Anyway….

Thank you so much for your kind and gracious reply.

Well, I have to admit, you started the ceasefire!! So a mighty big “thank-you” right back at ya!!!

I apologize more strongly that you spent so much time preparing a response; I can only hope that you at least had some good spirits in preparing it, rather than feeling negatively for a day.

Nah! I felt great! But I gotta tell you that if it had gone in, I don’t think we’d be talking. It was patronizing, condescending and very authoritive. Caustic is a word that comes to mind! I’m really glad I didn’t do. I’m really glad you changed yours. This is sooooooo much more pleasant!!! (Isn’t it weird the way one can get so worked up over not being understood, or at the appearance that the other person is not listening!!?? It’s as if the ‘topic’ doesn’t matter as much as the need for understanding.)

I noticed recently that you reported on a separate thread that you enjoyed the increased character displays at park opening times, and that you thought this was a positive move.

Heck! Not only at opening times, but all through the day! At seemingly random times and places!! It was great!! I “felt” magic just walking through the Magic Kingdom!! And my kids!! Well, it made their days!! Everyday!!

And you are right. There are some good things here and there. Just not as many as I’d like. In my mind, on the “great scale of magic” the ‘take-aways’ are far heavier than the ‘adds’.

But as I’ve learned here – Many disagree!!

Thanks for the talk DR!!



OK YoHo. You can go back to trains now!! Have fun!!