Dealing with friends that well are.... in a word... Cheap

[LovesTimone]

We have friends that are more frugal than others and it definitely impacts what type of get together we have with them (one couple in particular we just tend to host them at our house) but nothing that even comes close to what you are describing, OP. As I was reading the thread I was thinking you should just cut them loose, but your most recent post made me rethink that. I think I would have a chat with the wife and explain how much she means to you and why. I would start with what you love about them and their friendship and then go into explaining that she may not realize it, but their frugality has become extreme and is making aspects of the friendship uncomfortable. Maybe ask her if she has had noticed the change and listen to what she says. Nothing really justifies some of the things they’ve done, but maybe they are going through some things and handling them badly. The pandemic and not seeing much of people for 18 months may also be a factor. I would listen and then reevaluate.

OP here,

I am going to have a talk with my friend, and see how it pans out..

I feel that it is worth talking about with her... I am hoping very much for a good outcome...

 

[mumto3girls]

What's the point of washing/reusing disposable plates? Why not just use regular plates?

For me, it comes down to quantity (or a picnic). The only time I use paper/plastic is when we are eating outside or when we are hosting so many I don’t have enough of my regular plates/utensils. When we host both sides of the family we are looking at 20+ people. I don’t reuse paper plates though!

 

[amcnj]

Carbon paper is a thing of the past. I haven't even seen a credit card receipt in a carbonless duplicate format in years since dot matrix printing is almost gone now.

But there are still carbonless duplicate checks that are hand-written.

I remember back in the late 1980’s our office had dot matrix printers. One woman, who obviously had grown up with typewriters and carbon paper, would still take two pieces of paper with a sheet of carbon paper between and feed them into the printer roller.

 

[cedricandsophie]

My husband is very generous but is frugal, ie I call him cheap on a number of issues. He hates paying for parking and will walk a mile (after he drops me off). He gets soooo mad at places that don’t have free refills foe soda and has loudly comPlained which is embarrassing in front of other people at the table. but then he will give $5 to the homeless guy.

But for me these people would not last long as friends. They are beyond just frugal, based on what you have said. they are judgmental and unpleasant and righteous in their desire to show others how stupid they are for paying for Food, entertainment, drinks, etc.

 

[LovesTimone]

I think this is a good point. The OP has complaints about going to expensive restaurants and multiple vacations. Perhaps you don't need to end the friendship, but instead simply not do these types of "big ticket" activities where you're tastes and budgets differ.

On a few rare occasions we have travelled with either my parents or my MIL and even that has been challenging at times. I don't think I could travel with friends or extended family because it would not be an enjoyable experience to me if we were constantly having to compromise or cater to the preferences of all the different adults in the group. My kids have always been very easygoing and my husband and I have the same personality, interests, and priorities so we tend to want to do the same things. It's so much easier to travel when you just have one person who likes the same activities and has the exact same spending habits that you do.

I think the OP and this couple are simply too different to enjoy traveling together. It's probably unpleasant on their end as well because they may feel like they are being pressured to spend more money or do activities that they may not be interested in.

One of the reason we like to do cruises, and all-inclusive as a group, is that everyone can pick out what they are comfortable spending on a room, and you can choose whether to go with a, drink package with water or soft drinks as well adult beverage package or however you want. No-one care where the others are sleeping, or what kinda of room that they get... We do talk about some of the excursions and who wants to do what... sometimes we all go on a excursion together, some times we split up, heck DH and I have done excursions all by ourselves... Our friends that we have been talking about, can choose what they want to do, and spend... I personally think on these types of trips they are more relaxed on... if they do complain its about the cost of a excursion, which is up to them to choose to go or not, no pressure...
Everyone always has a choice to jump in or just hang back and do their own thing... and we can all meet up later for dinner... This way everyone gets to vacation their own way as well as what they are comfortable spending... again this way no pressure...

As far as traveling internationally with them to Europe or some other destination, that we be a hard no for us...

Since travel is just starting to open up, one of the other couples sent out a email, saying hey lets get together, where does everyone want to go next year... We have already made tentative plans to take our Grandson to Disneyland... and rent a cabin with our neighbors later next year... so for us its a wait and see, we don't want to commit to anything at this point.

 

[Sugardimples]

This wasn't a couple but a girl I worked with in a bank.
We were 6 girls in an office and went to dinner maybe once a month together.
This one girl would come but just order a coffee and not eat then throw a dollar on the table for her coffee. That was fine what ever, no one expected her to pay for anything more, it was just strange.
BUT, I mean but, if it was a party paid for by someone she ordered the works, appetizer, dinner & dessert. She would take a few bites of each then pack it up to go home for her husband and kid.
If we had an evening training or something the company would bring in food, her butt would be first in line every time and she would make a huge plate full, I mean huge. She once took about 7 or 8 ribs leaving many with out any. She would take a few bites and then pack it up for home.

One time we went for a dinner before Christmas and she had her usual coffee, when the check came one of the women picked up the check and said "Merry Christmas everyone" The look on her face was great. The women purposely didn't say it was her treat before, it was great, we laughed about that for a long time.

I have a SIL like that. Always
looking to get something for free. Will order almost nothing if she has to pay but over orders when someone else is paying. I’ve stopped going to dinner with her.

 

[shh]

She and I have known each other for about 30 years... while not best friends or anything like that, they are solid friends... I really love them both, and they both are so much fun to be with... Yes we have supported each other, and have shared history... I was there for them when they found out that they could not kids, which the wanted very much...I drove all night to be with her when her mom was killed in a freak car accident... She was there for me when I found out that my Dad had cancer, and when my grandmother passed. She went to the hospital when my mom had a heart attack and I live 600 miles away, to check on her for me.. Her DH went to my parents house after a hurricane and cleaned up the yard for my parents, without me even asking...

While I agree with all the posters re: this awful behavior, I will also say that based on what you described above, a friendship like this is so valuable and rare: so many people call themselves "friends" but suddenly disappear off the face of the earth when times get tough. They are nothing more than superficial "acquaintances".

It's certainly a tough situation - the behavior these two are exhibiting would drive me BONKERS, but her loyalty - that she is there for you in your darkest hour - that to me is worth its weight in gold - and worth putting up with a LOT. Maybe ease up on the group dynamic- i.e. with other couples? More socializing on a 1:1 level?

 

[bcla]

I remember back in the late 1980’s our office had dot matrix printers. One woman, who obviously had grown up with typewriters and carbon paper, would still take two pieces of paper with a sheet of carbon paper between and feed them into the printer roller.

I lived through the 80s. There were a lot of multi-part forms that contained carbon paper. But my recollection was that although they were supposed to accommodate them, they had a tendency to jam printers.

Still - I remember those dual feed, carbonless papers. Up until a few years ago, one local trash hauler was still using them for bills with dot matrix printers. The top form was white (sent with the payment) and the yellow duplicate was underneath. They even sent them with the printer feed holes.

But technology got better where multi-part credit card printers didn't need the guide holes.

And here's a description of old airline tickets:

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel...ough-e-tickets-by-far-the-norm-for-air-travel​

While these four kinds of physical tickets can be an annoying speed bump in the booking process, they are a lot less messy and time-consuming than their forebears. The original paper tickets consisted of four copies separated by layers of red carbon: one for travel, one for auditing purposes, one a passenger receipt and one for the agency.​

​

The red carbon was notorious for staining fingertips and shirt sleeves.​

​

“Who could forget the red ink?” recalled Aash Shravah, director of corporate sales for Montrose Travel.​

 

[Julie's Haircut]

That there is nothing wrong with being cheap if you pay your fair share. Wow, people are sure reading things into posts that aren't there.

Yep. You've posted many times that you're proud to be frugal. Nothing wrong with that. I've never seen a post of yours where you expect others to be the same.

 

[Julie's Haircut]

I have to LOL at this. I am reminded of my grandmother (who has since passed). Notoriously cheap when it came to cooking and anything food related. She was so poor growing up and most of her adult life. The running family story we like to reminisce upon about her is the time she shoved a steak in her purse at a buffet.

My father-in-law did that once or twice when we were with him at a casino buffet. They "owed" him because he spent so much money on the slots. He wrapped the steak in some napkins.

He also "brought home" some crushed red pepper flakes and a few other items at times. DW mentioned he shouldn't be doing that, and he replies "Mind-a you own biz-ness" in his Italian accent.

He went to the casinos quite frequently and I'm sure he did it all the time. Even when his meal was comped.

He also reused aluminum foil and zip-lock bags. I can see rinsing out the bags, and suggested it to DW, but she refused.

 

[NotUrsula]

I remember back in the late 1980’s our office had dot matrix printers. One woman, who obviously had grown up with typewriters and carbon paper, would still take two pieces of paper with a sheet of carbon paper between and feed them into the printer roller.

There were times when those continuous-printed paper stacks were actually handy to have. In the mid-90s I had a job where I frequently had to consult property-tax rolls while entering data. The program that the city used was not only clunky, but included a lot of other data that was a security risk, so they printed out the tax rolls for my department 2x/year so that they would not have to grant us access. The stack was a foot thick, and binding it any other way than the accordion was incredibly hard to handle, while the large-format dot-matrix stack was very easy to flip through. (And lest anyone think this is totally a thing of the past, nope. Every time I have to renew my car tags I see a clerk do this, because for some reason my surname does not show up on the state's database index of our jointly-held property, so the automatic linkage from one system to the other cannot find me. They always have to manually look it up in the backup hardcopy to find it. (We own our home jointly, but the vehicles are separately-titled.))

Airlines are still using dot-matrix printers to print vouchers. I have 3 in my possession right now. They are no longer carbons, but they are on special watermarked pin-fed cardstock-type paper, and there are always a few gates at the airport equipped to print them. Really thick paper tends not to handle well in quantity without that pin-feed, and it's too labor-intensive for someone to manually feed in the sheets a few at a time when dealing with 140 angry passengers. (Obviously, big professional printing machines are different, but it makes sense to use pin-feed printers when you have to do batches large enough to get labor-intensive, but do them seldom enough that investing in really expensive equipment is overkill.)

 

[tvguy]

Yep. You've posted many times that you're proud to be frugal. Nothing wrong with that. I've never seen a post of yours where you expect others to be the same.

Oh I have. Maybe not frugal, just smarter financially. Check some of my posts from the 2008 recession where people spend money on things they should have known better than to buy.

 

[SC Minnie]

OP I would also talk to her one on one expressing how much she means to you but letting her know their cheap behavior is driving people away.

While they may appear to be well off we never know what is going on behind closed doors. Maybe they had some bad investments and aren't as secure in their retirement as it would appear. Maybe they are just cheap.

 

[shh]

AS OP shares more details throughout the thread, their behavior seems like it teeters into mental/emotional dysfunctionality vs just seeming cheap/petty from a personality standpoint.

I'm no therapist, but for some, money = safety/security/comfort/protection. ESPECIALLY if you're senior age and don't have kids to look out for you- the future can be scary and you feel like you might need every dollar possible in case you need help. OP had mentioned they wanted, but couldn't have kids.

The extreme end of the money = security bell curve is when every dollar spent genuinely feels like the person is losing another tiny piece of their future safety.

It won't make sense to some, but it's a very real fear they likely need help managing.

Doesn't really solve OP's problem, but understanding context (actual illness vs just appearing to be selfish/petty) can sometimes make a difference in having a bit more patience or figuring out a work around for keeping this couple's friendship without it driving you nuts.

 

[ronandannette]

Oh I have. Maybe not frugal, just smarter financially. Check some of my posts from the 2008 recession where people spend money on things they should have known better than to buy.

Don’t lease cars - got it. But as long as I keep getting a generous lease allowance from my work and DH’s vehicle is still a tax write-off for his, we’re going to keep on doing it. The problem with declaring how things should done is that it doesn’t take all circumstances into account.

 

[BrianL]

Man, speaking of cheap, there's this guy named Bob, and he runs this biiiig company....

 

[chickapin parterre]

I can see rinsing out the bags, and suggested it to DW, but she refused.

yeah...want is up with that....I am always rinsing out those heavy duty freezer bags with the zip closures that are stronger than most plastic containers that store in the fridge. great for storing produce, sealing bags of 3/4 consumed chips, snacks or they make their way out to the garage......but nooooo...wife gives me the stink eye when they are drying in the rack.

 

[tvguy]

Don’t lease cars - got it. But as long as I keep getting a generous lease allowance from my work and DH’s vehicle is still a tax write-off for his, we’re going to keep on doing it. The problem with declaring how things should done is that it doesn’t take all circumstances into account.

Right now leasing MIGHT make sense if you trade off your cars every three years, at least according to the auto vloggers. They predict people buying a car today and financing it will be underwater in 3 years because of the shortage or new and used cars driving sales prices up. But WHO only keeps a car only three years, LOL.
I don't know all the arguments from a tax standpoint or liability, but my last company forbid employees from using their own cars for business. That changed a bit during the pandemic, to only with supervisors permission. That was because we had enough cars for a reporter and a photographer to ride together, but covid rules said they had to take separate cars. That changed when they put plexiglass dividers between the front and back seats, they could ride together with one in front and one in back, but ONLY if a back window was also open.

 

[tvguy]

My example of being cheap.
Got an email offering two pairs of Michael Strahan blue jeans for $70.
The last pair of Levi's I bought at Walmart were $12. Only bought them because they were out of my size in the $7 Walmart brand.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My example of being cheap.
Got an email offering two pairs of Michael Strahan blue jeans for $70.
The last pair of Levi's I bought at Walmart were $12. Only bought them because they were out of my size in the $7 Walmart brand.

That's what we call bargain hunting..not being cheap