"Deadbeat Dads" ( or moms )

[Papa Deuce]

Ok, I admit, this one will maybe get some folks stirred up.....


This is just a hypothetical question on my part. To the best of my knowledge, I don't know any "deadbeat" dads or moms. In fact, I don't even know many divorced folks with kids, to tell the truth. And, of all the ones I do know, the situation regarding their kids is amicable.


Anyway, my question is this: If the parent who has legal custody makes it incredibly difficult ( or even impossible ) for the non custodial parent to ever have contact with their children, do you think the non custodial parent should contnue making child support payments?

The obvious ( to me ) first thought is YES! But when I really think about it, I have some mixed feelings. I realize that you are not helping your kids by not paying support, but I also feel like if you ARE supporting your children you MUST be ENTITLED to have reasonable contact with them, UNLESS a court deems that you are not allowed to have contact with your kids.

Certainly there are reasons like child abuse, drugs, spousal abuse..... that might make it unacceptable, but for the purpose of THIS discussion, let's assume it is more along the lines of bitterness and hatred that cause the custodial parent to make things so difficult for the non custodial parent.

I am just curious.... Ok, have at it!

 

[mamatojon]

The relationship a father has with his children is for a lifetime. At some point the mom will be out of the picture and will not have the control over the relationship that she once did, and the child will have access to the knowledge that he was provided for as a child. I think it really stinks when moms (or dads) withhold visitation/custody out of spite, the one who suffers the most is the child. Why people can't see that I don't know. But withholding support doesn't do anything but harm the child, and harms the future relationship with the child as well. Really, childhood is such a small bit of time we have with our kids, I guess aside from fighting for visitation the father/mother can look forward to the day when there are no legal barriers to spending time with the child. I would hate to be in this situation, it must be torture.

Edited because I had one other thought - support is not paid in exchange for anything, it is paid solely because as the parent it is your (general you) duty to support your kids. So there isn't really an argument in my mind for any sort of "since I'm paying I'm entitled" type of thinking.

 

[spazzyjazzy]

I had my son when I was 16. My son's father broke up with me when my son was 6 months old. The first thing that went through my head was visitation. I did not think about support. I have received about a total of maybe 600.00 total from his dad in almost 13 years. I ask for it when I truly need it. My son does go to his dad's every other weekend (when his dad remembers to call) and I have never told his dad no to be malicious or in exchange for money. I have had to say no when it is not his weekend and my son has previous plans. I would never keep him from his dad because of lack of funds from him. The way I see it is that dad is a grown man and should know his responsibility as a father to support his child if he doesn't that is on his conscious not mine. I do get flamed alot because I don't collect from him. Some people get upset when they hear that I don't and don't understand why I don't. I even had his wife make a comment to me about it. She pretty much told me that if she had been in my situation that she would have milked him for all that he had.

 

[miss missy]

In the eyes of the court... yes child support and child visitation are two seperate issues. That said, I am not sure what I believe should be the law, but how awful people are that do this, holding a child back from a parent as a pay back is plain wrong!

 

[MushyMushy]

The relationship a father has with his children is for a lifetime. At some point the mom will be out of the picture and will not have the control over the relationship that she once did, and the child will have access to the knowledge that he was provided for as a child. I think it really stinks when moms (or dads) withhold visitation/custody out of spite, the one who suffers the most is the child. Why people can't see that I don't know. But withholding support doesn't do anything but harm the child, and harms the future relationship with the child as well. Really, childhood is such a small bit of time we have with our kids, I guess aside from fighting for visitation the father/mother can look forward to the day when there are no legal barriers to spending time with the child. I would hate to be in this situation, it must be torture.

Edited because I had one other thought - support is not paid in exchange for anything, it is paid solely because as the parent it is your (general you) duty to support your kids. So there isn't really an argument in my mind for any sort of "since I'm paying I'm entitled" type of thinking.

That's the way it happened with DH and his dad. It's not that his mother actually withheld visitation, but lied to my DH so much about his dad that he never wanted to see him again. She also lied about child support -- said she wasn't getting any when she was.

That really came back to bite her in the butt later when DH and I got married and he distanced himself from the situation. He discovered all the lies. At least he was able to develop a good relationship with his father, but it damaged the one with his mother. He still talks to her, but they aren't nearly as close as they could have been if she hadn't told all those lies out of bitterness.

 

[Robinrs]

My situation is a little different since my son's father is schizophrenic. He is NOT allowed unsupervised visitation even though his father and his so called "social hit men", have tried.

Since his father is disabled my son gets disability but not because his father helps us at all. His family is very wealthy but they never offer us anything AND I don't ask. His sister gave me a job for 2 years, which I found priceless since it was not a hand out.

At the beginning getting anything from this jerk was a job, and to this day he has offered us nothing but trauma. He calls daily and depending on whether he takes his meds or not it's amazing what he rails about.

The fact that my 13yo son still loves his Dad despite his problems is a testimony to his patience and forgiveness. His respect for him is due to the fact that we allowed him to know who he is without giving him our opinions of him.

If I based visitation to money Michael would've NEVER seen or known his father. It's two different things in the eyes of the law and in the eyes of a child. If their Dad is a deadbeat and has left a lifetime of struggle for their Mom, a child will eventually know this and form his own opinion of this person. Nothing we do can change that.

 

[SillyMe]

It depends on the situation, honestly. In my dd15's case, I absolutely think he still has an obligation to pay child support. I don't withhold visitation from him, but that's because he never wanted to see her. He has seen her 2 times since she was born, with both visits being in the first year. Now, if he came knocking on my door today, I absolutely would refuse to allow him to see her. After 15 years of abandonment, my dd does not know him. Does he still have an obligation to support her financially? Yes he does. He walked out on her 15 years ago, he would have no right to just show up in her life today.

 

[noodleknitter]

Child support is to help maintain the child. It isn't a purchase plan for time with a kid.

That said, except in extreme cases (abuse, severe mental illness) all children deserve to have two parents involved in their lives. They aren't pawns.

 

[Sherrypooh]

up with one child and not the other. He adores my youngest... (15) and totally ignores my oldest (16). He is suppose to have the boys every other weekend overnight and whenever the wind blows for him. So far, he sees them less and less and actually only sees the one child. He sees him every other weekend... but for maybe 5 hours and then the boy comes home starving cuz dad didn't feed him. I just let it go. Anything to do with school etc, I email my ex and he always has a reason why he won't be able to attend. Kids have said he has let them down many times so they just don't expect it any more. However, financially... he only gives what he must. I can assure you, it is not much when you talk about two teenagers in high school who eat non stop and want to do what all their friends are doing. If they ask him for anything.. he gives them "advice". It has become the joke in the house. So, no money and visitation should not be hand in hand. I would never keep my kids from their dad. He does a fine job all by himself.

 

[Ready to go in Ok]

Child support is to help maintain the child. It isn't a purchase plan for time with a kid.

That said, except in extreme cases (abuse, severe mental illness) all children deserve to have two parents involved in their lives. They aren't pawns.

My thoughts exactly.

We have the poor luck of DH and I both having deadbeat ex's. DH's ex sees her DD about once a month or so, but we leave it between DD and her mom. (DD is 17 now) My ex rarely sees or calls my kids. His choice. I have told his family, with whom I am still close, that if he contacts my kids, I won't automatically go running to a lawyer to try to collect child support. Both my kids have cell phones, so he could call them without risking me answering the phone, and they spend at least a week in the summer with his family. His choice. I do see what you are saying about parents making visitation difficult, but even though visitation and child support aren't connected, I can guarantee you that if the shoe was on the other foot, and I was the absent parent, I would spend as much time as possible with my kids, no matter if I had to deal with child support, or the ex, or whatever.

 

[C.Ann]

Two separate issues - and that's what a judge will tell anyone in that situation.. Child support can not be witheld due to lack of contact with the child.. Food, clothing, and housing is necessary for the child's survival though so I would have to say that while it may not be "fair", it should be paid - regardless..

 

[tmt martins]

It only helps in court when taking back for visitation if all is paid up and on time .

So you sort of shoot yourself in the foot for not paying.

Now they should document everything and go back to court to get visitation court ordered then you have another leg to stand on when copliance is not done.

 

[minnieandme]

Two separate issues - and that's what a judge will tell anyone in that situation.. Child support can not be witheld due to lack of contact with the child.. Food, clothing, and housing is necessary for the child's survival though so I would have to say that while it may not be "fair", it should be paid - regardless..

That is true. Child support should not viewed as "renting" a kid for the weekend. If the non custodial parent wants to have a relationship with their kids they should be allowed to do so. But somehow, a lot of non custodial parents don't seem to separate the two issues. There are some parents that only want the child because they "paid" for it. They should want a relationship because the kid is a part of them.

 

[JunieJay]

Child support is to help maintain the child. It isn't a purchase plan for time with a kid.

That pretty much sums it up as far as I can see.

 

[tkd lisa]

Speaking from my childhood, my mom made it extremely difficult to see my dad. (If you love me, you won't go see him. If you want to see him so much, why don't you go live with him? etc.) It was her version of continuing the divorce fight. I know that whenever my dad actually saw us, he gave us a check. But he didn't mail the check if he didn't see us. In his mind, they were linked.

But I do know that she took him to court for back payments (back in the late 70s when this wasn't the science it is now), and he was ordered to pay. He ended up going on disability in the early 80s, and we got our support payments directly from the government.

In my case with my ex, he is mentally ill and is in jail. I waived child support from the time of the separation and through 6 months after he's released from jail. There was no point in trying to get blood from a turnip, and I'm blessed with a good job. I have sole discretion over visitation, and have stated no unsupervised visitation. He just cycles too wildly. But if he was stable, I wouldn't tie the visitation to the support. And my kids WOULDN'T know if he was behind in payments since that's NOT their problem.

 

[disneygal66]

My DS 16 is from a previous relationship. His father owes me over $40,000 in child support. He thinks because he didn't want him, why should he pay? He NEVER sees him and luckily I married my DH who has never treated him any different from our 2 boys. If he wanted to see him, I would ask my DS if he wanted too but my guess is that his anwer would be NO!! He doesn't even know him and his father is missing out on an incredible kid!

 

[cardaway]

Sadly the laws are written such that the mother can do anything she wants to keep the father out and he is still legally bound to pay support on time.

 

[BabyTigger99]

Sadly the laws are written such that the mother can do anything she wants to keep the father out and he is still legally bound to pay support on time.

Luckily, the tide is turning, giving more dads the opportunity for placement of their children.

 

[C.Ann]

Sadly the laws are written such that the mother can do anything she wants to keep the father out and he is still legally bound to pay support on time.

---------------------------------------

While I agree that it's sad that laws are written such that the mother can do anything she wants to keep a father out, it has no bearing on the matter of child support..

Again - two different issues..

 

[cardaway]

---------------------------------------

While I agree that it's sad that laws are written such that the mother can do anything she wants to keep a father out, it has no bearing on the matter of child support..

Again - two different issues..

I beg to differ. The father should be able to stop payment until the situation is corrected. The child is already being hurt by both parents in these cases where the child is kep from seeing both parents. At least with the payments up in the air it puts the issue in both parents laps to solve rather than the father having no power.