DD's High School teacher is a nut

[Hannahinwonderland]

When I was a para we were told we could not even hint at our political views to the kids. One student told me that her mother said that all white people hate Barack Obama (this was right after he was elected). I had to pause a minute and finally said, "well, I'm white and I like him." Which probably was a violation and I felt nervous even saying that.

I had a problem like this last year, I wasn't explicitly told but I was a teacher's assistant and it just seemed like common sense to me that I shouldn't share my political views with the third graders I worked with. However, I live in an area where people do have strong political views and honestly, I had strong views about the election too. Kids came in, wanting to talk about it, and keeping things appropriate and nonpartisan was really challenging.

 

[Wishing on a star]

These are not "children" they are adults or pretty darn close. If they cannot hear other views and learn to discern right and wrong for themselves then we have much bigger problems than conspiracy theorists. They have got to be able to learn how to discard information that is not factual or be able to look at all explanations of something and determine the truth.

The only way this is dangerous to their safety is if the teacher is not following protocol in the lock down drills and we don't know that to be true.

Totally disagree, because, even though the very small minority might have reached their 18th birthday does not mean that this kind of total non-factual and screwed up BS is appropriate, at all, in a public high school setting.

We are not talking a simple difference in views or opinions here.
We are talking whether this particular kind of situation is appropriate to have our children who are enrolled, often by no choice of their own, in the public schools, be subject to this kind of thing.

When a child or an adult child (and their family), make that CHOICE to be enrolled in a college, pay the tuition, sign up for the courses, etc...
Then, yep, anything goes.

PS: there are even minors enrolled in early college and enrichment courses.... That is their CHOICE.

As I had prev. mentioned, I did have the oppportunity to address something similar, once, one time before, with my son...
Apparently, several other parents had also had their kids come to them with complaints and concerns... Other parents had also 'reported'.... It was taken care of.

 

[JaneBanks]

This is why I think Alex Jones is a scourge on our society. Infowars, Alex Jones, and his ilk are a part of the reason why this country is the way it is and the dumbing down of our society.

I really wish he and his fellow nut jobs would just disappear.

I still can't get over the fact that there are people out there that actually believe what they say.

 

[msjprincess]

FYI, most public schools have rules in place regarding what things are considered "off limits/inappropriate" for teachers to do or say. It's part of their code of conduct. This is why teachers can be fired for saying and doing certain things. This isn't as much a matter of opinion as of policy.

As a parent, reporting this is the appropriate thing to do. The school will make a determination whether what this teacher said is a violation of their policy or not.

Yes.My brother is a social studies teacher and he has kids ask him about his political views and who he voted for all the time. He doesn't give them any hint of his own personal feelings.

 

[mom2rtk]

FYI, most public schools have rules in place regarding what things are considered "off limits/inappropriate" for teachers to do or say. It's part of their code of conduct. This is why teachers can be fired for saying and doing certain things. This isn't as much a matter of opinion as of policy.

As a parent, reporting this is the appropriate thing to do. The school will make a determination whether what this teacher said is a violation of their policy or not.

No idea if we have rules in place here. I only know that if we do, they get broken with great regularity. And have for years. I would want the nutjob in this thread reported. But I just view the spouting off of political opinions by a teacher to my kids as a great springboard for more conversation at home. Conversation about politics, conversation about appropriate workplace topics, conversation about how to deal with it when it comes up.

 

[luvsJack]

Totally disagree, because, even though the very small minority might have reached their 18th birthday does not mean that this kind of total non-factual and screwed up BS is appropriate, at all, in a public high school setting.

We are not talking a simple difference in views or opinions here.
We are talking whether this particular kind of situation is appropriate to have our children who are enrolled, often by no choice of their own, in the public schools, be subject to this kind of thing.

When a child or an adult child (and their family), make that CHOICE to be enrolled in a college, pay the tuition, sign up for the courses, etc...
Then, yep, anything goes.

PS: there are even minors enrolled in early college and enrichment courses.... That is their CHOICE.

As I had prev. mentioned, I did have the oppportunity to address something similar, once, one time before, with my son...
Apparently, several other parents had also had their kids come to them with complaints and concerns... Other parents had also 'reported'.... It was taken care of.

85% of dd's senior class was 18 by graduation. So not a small minority.

So what happens when the same kid goes off to a university, 3-4 months later and is hit with all kinds of view points and opinions and whatever else is out there? They have no idea what to believe or not believe, how to handle this information, how to discern what is or isn't true, how to find the proof of the facts.

This has nothing to do with it being or not being their choice to be there. It has everything to do with a kid learning how to navigate all the influx of information and view points they can be hit with and using situations such as this one as the chance to learn how to deal with that.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Sorry, I have explained and clarified my views,,,,,
Do you honestly think that I do not feel that I have ever thought this thru, that I do not feel that I have a valid take on this. Based on some personal experience.
You should know me well enough here on the DIS to know that I am not going to continue to 'engage'.
Do you think that if you continue to engage and argue that you will actually change my thoughts?
Not on this one.
Sorry....

 

[luvsJack]

Sorry, I have explained and clarified my views,,,,,
Do you honestly think that I do not feel that I have ever thought this thru, that I do not feel that I have a valid take on this. Based on some personal experience.
You should know me well enough here on the DIS to know that I am not going to continue to 'engage'.
Do you think that if you continue to engage and argue that you will actually change my thoughts?
Not on this one.
Sorry....

I am not trying to change your thoughts. I am trying to understand them. You may have a valid point but choosing to ignore a valid question isn't the way to show that.

 

[robinb]

I am not trying to change your thoughts. I am trying to understand them. You may have a valid point but choosing to ignore a valid question isn't the way to show that.

What is your valid point? That a high school student may run into bigots and conspiracy theorists in college?

 

[Wishing on a star]

I believe I have a pretty good idea of her point, based on a history of posting on the DIS, as well as her last post.
Not hard....
And, I have posted and clarified my thoughts twice now.
Directly answered the whole public high school versus college thing...
Whether she 'understands', really doesn't matter.

I would, however, point out that figures and percentages can be used and twisted to try to back up any argument.
Just because a high percentage of graduating seniors, during the last semester or two of senior year, might have attained the age of 18, does not mean that the huge percentage of high school students (all of whom should be considered here) should be considered as adults. Just sayin'

Just an FYI, In our high schools, ALL students... even those well over the age of 18, have to abide by the same rules and requirements and limitations as all other younger students.

 

[luvsJack]

What is your valid point? That a high school student may run into bigots and conspiracy theorists in college?

I said she may have one.

Mine was that is this teacher's opinion, pov, belief, whatever that damaging to a student to hear? If a student is told something like that, and our first response for high school senior is to shelter them from it, what will they do next year? If its not used as a teaching moment to teach them how to handle these things, how to figure out what is true and not true, how do we expect the student to not be taken in by this kind of stuff.

And if you don't think they will run into bigots and conspiracy theorists in college, you need to think again.

 

[luvsJack]

I believe I have a pretty good idea of her point, based on a history of posting on the DIS, as well as her last post.
Not hard....
And, I have posted and clarified my thoughts twice now.
Directly answered the whole public high school versus college thing...
Whether she 'understands', really doesn't matter.

I would, however, point out that figures and percentages can be used and twisted to try to back up any argument.
Just because a high percentage of graduating seniors, during the last semester or two of senior year, might have attained the age of 18, does not mean that the huge percentage of high school students (all of whom should be considered here) should be considered as adults. Just sayin'

Just an FYI, In our high schools, ALL students... even those well over the age of 18, have to abide by the same rules and requirements and limitations as all other younger students.

You are the one that said that 18 year olds were in the minority in a senior class. I just said that is not always the case. I didn't say a word about whether they are adults or not. You did not use the word "adult" you said "18". Just sayin'.

That first sentence, I have no idea what you are talking about. And the last sentence has no bearing on this conversation in the least, that I can tell.

 

[Hannahinwonderland]

Outside of whether or not the statement is harmful, I don't think anyone dumb enough to believe Alex Jones should be responsible for educating our future leaders. I hope something comes of your complaint.

 

[BrinkofSunshine]

I said she may have one.

Mine was that is this teacher's opinion, pov, belief, whatever that damaging to a student to hear? If a student is told something like that, and our first response for high school senior is to shelter them from it, what will they do next year? If its not used as a teaching moment to teach them how to handle these things, how to figure out what is true and not true, how do we expect the student to not be taken in by this kind of stuff.

And if you don't think they will run into bigots and conspiracy theorists in college, you need to think again.

But is it a teaching moment? Maybe for OP’s daughter, who chose to bring it up to her mom, but what about other students who don’t bring it up to anyone else, who may not have fully developed critical thinking skills, or who like/trust this teacher and might be swayed by them, etc.?

 

[luvsJack]

But is it a teaching moment? Maybe for OP’s daughter, who chose to bring it up to her mom, but what about other students who don’t bring it up to anyone else, who may not have fully developed critical thinking skills, or who like/trust this teacher and might be swayed by them, etc.?

So maybe it should be a teaching moment for us or for the school systems. They need to be taught critical thinking skills in these scenarios. They need to learn how not to be taken in by such nonsense. If we don't teach them at the high school level, when do we?

 

[CarolAnn856]

So maybe it should be a teaching moment for us or for the school systems. They need to be taught critical thinking skills in these scenarios. They need to learn how not to be taken in by such nonsense. If we don't teach them at the high school level, when do we?

I know I said I wasn't going to respond to your posts again, but for God's sake, this is ridiculous. If a teacher, any teacher, presents falsehoods as truth, no matter what the topic, they should be out of a job. How is this even up for debate in the first place??

ETA: As a school librarian, one of our jobs is to help students learn to differentiate between reliable sources and unreliable ones. Many other teachers do this as well. That IS a good lesson to learn, but not because the teacher himself is an unreliable source.

 

[robinb]

I said she may have one.

Mine was that is this teacher's opinion, pov, belief, whatever that damaging to a student to hear? If a student is told something like that, and our first response for high school senior is to shelter them from it, what will they do next year? If its not used as a teaching moment to teach them how to handle these things, how to figure out what is true and not true, how do we expect the student to not be taken in by this kind of stuff.

And if you don't think they will run into bigots and conspiracy theorists in college, you need to think again.

The biggest problem I see in allowing someone to share his unhinged opinions out loud in the classroom and using it as a "teaching moment" is that not everyone in the class is getting the same lesson. Certainly some students will get the message that "Mr Knuts is wrong." if it is brought up to their parents and they discuss how crazy the "crisis actor theory" or Holocaust denial really is. However, other kids with less involved parents will get the message that "Mr Knuts is right." by the mere fact that the administration does nothing to stop him. The administration's lack of disciple becomes tacit agreement and approval. It's those kids that need to be sheltered from hate speech and teachers that share their wackadoodle opinions.

 

[Wendy31]

I agree that the teacher shouldn't have shared his conspiracy theory beliefs w/ his class - unless it was done as some kind of class discussion starter kind of thing (but, in this case, I don't think it was).

I imagine that, in the days following a school shooting, related topics are the subject of many classrooms. I could see how a teacher of older students (juniors & seniors) could bring up the possibility of a "conspiracy theory" to facilitate a class discussion - both giving students a safe place to express their feelings & an opportunity for thoughtful debate &, in the end, how/why some particular conspiracy theories hold no merit.

But, again, I don't think this is what this teacher was doing, and, therefore, he should have kept his opinions to himself.

However, this kind of thing does make me wonder (& maybe this should be another thread)... Does a teacher have any right to express any personal opinions at all? I remember teaching during an election year & my kindergarten students wanting to know for whom I voted - I didn't tell them.

Where does one draw the line as to what opinions can be expressed... politics, religion, school budgets, science, Oxford comma usage...? There's going to a plethora of different topics on which a teacher is going to have an opinion - some of which directly relate to whatever the teacher is teaching at the time.

And, if a teacher doesn't express personal opinions in class but expresses his/her opinions online via social media, is that okay?

Going way back to when I was in 2nd grade, I remember my parents & the parents of the other students in my class were furious when our teacher told us that Santa Claus wasn't real.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Assuming that the students involved in your scenarios above were under age 18, it's a simple line for me. All of those behaviors violate laws. If I know about a criminal law being violated in a school, then yes, I will make absolutely sure that the administration knows about it, and no, I won't force my child to be the first reporter.

A conspiracy-theory-spouting teacher isn't breaking any laws in this country (unlike in Germany, for example, where defending Nazis is actually prohibited by law.) What he or she is doing is inappropriate, and probably violates the terms of a contract of employment, but is not illegal. As it's happening in a school it becomes a curriculum issue, which is a policy call. (True, it ISN"T actually part of the curriculum, but kids tend to interpret any statement of "fact" coming from a teacher as something that they are being taught, and therein lies the issue. It APPEARS to be curriculum in the eyes of the kids.) At the high school level, questions about curriculum policies are best addressed by students, because the act of questioning it through proper channels teaches a very valuable lesson in critical thinking and how to make change within a system.

Thanks for replying. I respect your position on it, although waiting until something crosses the line into illegal territory pushes it a bit too far for my comfort level. I can think of a few scenarios that wouldn't be illegal but, personally, I'd consider them wholly inappropriate for a public school setting and would feel obligated to get involved on the basis of child safety (even if that child isn't mine, or is nearly an adult themselves, or doesn't think I should get involved). For instance, I'm not going to stand idly by while my child's teacher talks up all the wonderful aspects of the cult they belong to. Or, to use another example from my high school years -- one of the teachers used to ask my friend to come to his classroom during his planning period/her lunch break because he needed to talk to her. When she'd show up to the empty classroom, he'd tell her to take a seat, eat her lunch, and he'd get to her in a minute. Then he'd go sit at his desk, pretend to be busy with something, and just.... look at her.... until the period ended and the bell rang. My friend finally made the connection that this happened every time she wore a skirt to school. As teens, our reaction to that situation started and ended with, "Ew, gross, that guy is such a creep." As a parent, I'd be all over that situation with the administration.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

I think there is a right and a wrong way to teach kids something and using the words "wack a doodle" are not the right way.

.

When a teacher tells his class that the Parkland shooting did not happen, using the term "wack a doodle" to describe him is definitely right on!!