DDP Rumor and affect on DVC Member Perceived Value

[JimMIA]

Just FYI -- in case some are wondering what the heck we are discussing -- this is a direct quote from a letter received by UK guests who are customers of Virgin Holidays -- one of the largest travel agents in the UK. The letter is from Virgin, but it is obvious that the info came from Disney.

"Since making your reservation we have been notified by resort that for 2008 departures, the Disney Dining Plan package has changed. The new dining plan no longer has a starter as part of the table service meal, and gratuities are no longer included in the price. All other aspects of the dining plan remain unchanged".

Also, for those wondering about the taxes -- I don't think they can sell a plan like this without charging tax on it, so I'm sure the tax (only 6.5%, so not a biggie anyway) will stay.

 

[Chuck S]

Also, for those wondering about the taxes -- I don't think they can sell a plan like this without charging tax on it, so I'm sure the tax (only 6.5%, so not a biggie anyway) will stay.

That would depend entirely upon Florida Sales Tax regulations, and perhaps if it is classified as "pre-payment" or a "redemption certificate." For instance, gift certificates, in TX, are not charged sales tax when you purchase them...so a $100 gift certicate costs $100, and nothing tangible has of yet changed hands. However, if you purchase $50 worth of merchandise, tax is applied then, so $50 + tax is deducted from that $100 balance.

I would assume, however, that Disney considers it a pre-payment for goods...thus tax is either "included" in the overall price...so it is really $35.68 + tax for a total of $37.99 per night per adult, or they will clarify that it is $37.99 + tax per night, thus becoming a 6.5% increase in price for next year.

 

[CarolA]

Based on my knowledge of Florida Sales Tax... (which is a little rusty) this would probably be a pre-pay and Florida tax would be required to be charged at the time of sale. Tax is charged in Florida based on payment not value so even though the meal might be worth $100 you only paid around $35. Tax is on the payment. Now... Disney could charge $38.99 PLUS tax on that instead of the current price which I think includes tax?

Tax is not paid on the tip so the change there makes no difference in the amount of tax collected.

 

[DBorges]

Just FYI -- in case some are wondering what the heck we are discussing -- this is a direct quote from a letter received by UK guests who are customers of Virgin Holidays -- one of the largest travel agents in the UK. The letter is from Virgin, but it is obvious that the info came from Disney.

"Since making your reservation we have been notified by resort that for 2008 departures, the Disney Dining Plan package has changed. The new dining plan no longer has a starter as part of the table service meal, and gratuities are no longer included in the price. All other aspects of the dining plan remain unchanged".

Also, for those wondering about the taxes -- I don't think they can sell a plan like this without charging tax on it, so I'm sure the tax (only 6.5%, so not a biggie anyway) will stay.

THis is from virgins web site
"Disney Dining Plan
The Disney Dining Plan is an exclusive benefit for Disney Resort hotel guests, offering terrific value on Disney Holidays. It's a fantastic points system that gives complete flexibility to eat meals in any combination from a choice of over 100 WALT DISNEY WORLD restaurants.

The plan offers 2 meals and a snack per night for everyone in the party ages 3 years and over. A table service meal includes 1 starter, 1 main course, 1 dessert and 1 single-serving non-alcoholic beverage, or 1 full buffet and 1 single-serving non-alcoholic beverage.
A counter service meal includes 1 main course, 1 dessert and 1 single-serving non-alcoholic beverage, or 1 complete combo meal with dessert and 1 single-serving non-alcoholic beverage.

A snack includes one of the following: frozen ice-cream bar, popcorn scoop, a piece of fruit, 20oz bottle of coke®, Diet Coke®, Sprite® or 24oz bottle of Dasani® water.

Plus, guests can also enjoy character dining experiences, Disney's fabulous Dinner Shows, or dining in luxury at one of the participating Disney Signature Restaurants.

Terms and Conditions
Advance dining reservations are strongly suggested. All dinner shows require advance dining reservations - show tickets can be aquired through lobby concierge.
The Dining Plan must be booked a minimum of 21 days before departure and is only available on single-centre holidays. Bookings MUST include at least a 5-night stay at a WALT DISNEY WORLD Resort hotel AND Disney tickets, for all people on the booking, both booked through Virgin Holidays. The Disney Dining Plan must be booked for everyone on the booking, for the full duration of their stay. The Disney Dining Plan is only available at selected restaurants; full details can be provided on request. Children 3-9 years must order from the children's menu, where available. Children aged 2 years and under are not eligible for the Dining Plan and must pay locally for any food/drink consumed.
The Dining Plan will not be valid if the above conditions are not compiled with. In these circumstances we reserve the right to alter your booking accordingly.
To book please call us after making your holiday booking, quoting your booking reference klklklklk 2468

Disney's Key to the World
Holidaying at Disney just got easier with their Key to the World card! Presented to each member of your party on arrival, this card is not just a room key, it enables you to charge food and merchandise to it, so there's no need to carry cash. What's more all of your souvenirs will be delivered straight to your resort hotel room. Now that's what we call magic!
FREE Parking
All guests staying in a Disney Resort Hotel receive FREE parking at all Disney Parks, including the 2 Water Parks and Downtown Disney.
There are also some great car upgrade offers available."


I feel that the rumor mill is getting the best of everyone on this..

I have contacted DVC and Disney and DISNEY DINNING there are NO RATES OUT FOR 2008 ANYWHERE

This defeats the total purpose of dinning

RUMOR

Go here and read it !!http://www.virginholidays.co.uk/brochures/florida/holidays/orlando/walt_disney_world_resort/

This is so far fetched!!!!! I think it was bad or incorrect info

 

[CarolA]

IMO most people, myself included, tip more than 18% I usually give 20% or more. But I do not like when a tip is included, at that point it is no longer a tip but a fee. I know a lot of places do this but IMO it serves no one the server will get 18% wether the service is good or bad and the customer may be forced to tip some one that does not desrve it. I rarely have service bad enough that I don't give atleast 20% but I want the option. I agree that if they remove the tip they should reduce the cost.
"mandatory gratuity" is this like military inteligence

While I generally agree I am very concerned that the tip MUST be mandatory on DDP. I have followed the various DIS boards and spent too much time at Disney to have much faith in my fellow travelers. I can see this logic ALL to easily.... "DDP costs me $38. I figure they pay $25 of that for the TS meal 18% of of $25 is $4.50 so that's my tip"

Don't believe me. Read this board there is at least one poster who seems to be saying he/she doesn't tip as a high percentage at Disney because "meals are overpriced" So he/she "inflation" adjusts the tip? (Of course living in Orlando is also fairly costly from what I learned when I looked at a job down there, but that never comes up LOL!)


I once was in the Rose and Crown and heard someone say "you don't need to tip, you don't tip in Pubs in England" Well that may be true, but this pub is NOT in England....

It is not fair for the servers to be "ripped off" because of this change.

 

[DBorges]

Ok I must be the exception if I get great or good service even witht he dinning plan I tip 20% of the Bill even if they all ready got there 18%.

Maybe it is because when I eat at the concorse steak house I feel that i have paid less by buying the dinning plan then the meal is actual worth..

I have eaten the off the dinning plan a nd drop 175 with out tip so i figure that the fee for the dinning plan for the day is not a fair reflection of the meal cost .

Besides the people your tip live off the tips so if the go the extra mile i tip higher

Now this is a better why to look at this other then talking about rumors lol

 

[CarolA]

I don't think you have all the facts....

If you attempt to book a 2008 package with dining THIS appears.....


• The Dining Plan must be booked a minimum of 21 days before departure, it is only available on single centre holidays, and is not vaild for wedding packages, or cruise and stay packages. Bookings MUST include at least a 5 night stay at a Walt Disney World Resort Hotel AND Disney tickets, for all people on the booking, both booked through Virgin Holidays. The Disney Dining Plan must be booked for everyone on the booking, for the full duration of their stay. The Disney Dining Plan is only available on selected restaurants, full details can be provided on request. Children 3-9 years must order from the children's menu, where available. Children age 2 years and under are not eligible for the Dining Plan and must pay locally for any only food/drink consumed. The Dining Plan will not be vaild if the above conditions are not complied with. In these circumstances we reserve the right to alter your booking accordingly. Please note advanced Dining reservations are strongly suggested. All Dinner shows require advanced dining reservations - show tickets can be acquired through your hotels concierge. Please note: For guests wishing to stay at any Walt Disney World Resort hotel for longer than 21 nights, it will be necessary to check out of your room and then check back in on the 21st night due to Disney's regulations. Please note: For 2008 departures, the Disney Dining Plan package has been changed. The new dining plan no longer has a starter as part of the table service meal, and gratuities are no longer included in the price.


FACT!!!!

You have to agree to the above statement about the Dining Plan before you book it..... Now Disney could change thier mind, but Virgin would not have put this on thier booking conditions based on rumors on the DIS

THis is from virgins web site
"Disney Dining Plan
The Disney Dining Plan is an exclusive benefit for Disney Resort hotel guests, offering terrific value on Disney Holidays. It's a fantastic points system that gives complete flexibility to eat meals in any combination from a choice of over 100 WALT DISNEY WORLD restaurants.

The plan offers 2 meals and a snack per night for everyone in the party ages 3 years and over. A table service meal includes 1 starter, 1 main course, 1 dessert and 1 single-serving non-alcoholic beverage, or 1 full buffet and 1 single-serving non-alcoholic beverage.
A counter service meal includes 1 main course, 1 dessert and 1 single-serving non-alcoholic beverage, or 1 complete combo meal with dessert and 1 single-serving non-alcoholic beverage.

A snack includes one of the following: frozen ice-cream bar, popcorn scoop, a piece of fruit, 20oz bottle of coke®, Diet Coke®, Sprite® or 24oz bottle of Dasani® water.

Plus, guests can also enjoy character dining experiences, Disney's fabulous Dinner Shows, or dining in luxury at one of the participating Disney Signature Restaurants.

Terms and Conditions
Advance dining reservations are strongly suggested. All dinner shows require advance dining reservations - show tickets can be aquired through lobby concierge.
The Dining Plan must be booked a minimum of 21 days before departure and is only available on single-centre holidays. Bookings MUST include at least a 5-night stay at a WALT DISNEY WORLD Resort hotel AND Disney tickets, for all people on the booking, both booked through Virgin Holidays. The Disney Dining Plan must be booked for everyone on the booking, for the full duration of their stay. The Disney Dining Plan is only available at selected restaurants; full details can be provided on request. Children 3-9 years must order from the children's menu, where available. Children aged 2 years and under are not eligible for the Dining Plan and must pay locally for any food/drink consumed.
The Dining Plan will not be valid if the above conditions are not compiled with. In these circumstances we reserve the right to alter your booking accordingly.
To book please call us after making your holiday booking, quoting your booking reference klklklklk 2468

Disney's Key to the World
Holidaying at Disney just got easier with their Key to the World card! Presented to each member of your party on arrival, this card is not just a room key, it enables you to charge food and merchandise to it, so there's no need to carry cash. What's more all of your souvenirs will be delivered straight to your resort hotel room. Now that's what we call magic!
FREE Parking
All guests staying in a Disney Resort Hotel receive FREE parking at all Disney Parks, including the 2 Water Parks and Downtown Disney.
There are also some great car upgrade offers available."


I feel that the rumor mill is getting the best of everyone on this..

I have contacted DVC and Disney and DISNEY DINNING there are NO RATES OUT FOR 2008 ANYWHERE

This defeats the total purpose of dinning

RUMOR

Go here and read it !!http://www.virginholidays.co.uk/brochures/florida/holidays/orlando/walt_disney_world_resort/

This is so far fetched!!!!! I think it was bad or incorrect info

 

[BCV23]

Coming late to this thread but tax has always been included in the DDP price.....both the tax on the meal and the tax for the price of the package itself. It's $38.99/day...no tax added to that.

I agree with you Carol. I really hope gratuity is still included. I remember someone on the dining forum say they couldn't afford to dine in TS spots if they tipped as they should. So they just stiffed the server as it was their vacation and they wanted to enjoy TS.

Your R&C experience is actually funny although pathetic.

 

[salmoneous]

but Virgin would not have put this on thier booking conditions based on rumors on the DIS

No, but I think it very possible that somebody at Virgin received information they thought was definitive, but was really just the same rumors all of us have heard.

Many people have heard rumors from what they thought were definitive Disney representatives and taken it as fact.

 

[CarolA]

No, but I think it very possible that somebody at Virgin received information they thought was definitive, but was really just the same rumors all of us have heard.

Many people have heard rumors from what they thought were definitive Disney representatives and taken it as fact.

I think Virgin has something definitive from Disney. This is a major corporation. They would not post based on rumors. They have contracts etc. Virgin has committed to a block of rooms for 2008 and has pricing which is allowing them to book 2008 packages with guranteed pricing (try doing that in the US, doesn't work LOL!) Virgin does a HUGE volume of business with Disney (as in whole Jumbo Jets of tourists a day)

As I said, Disney could "backtrack" but if Virgin had NOT received a formal communication from Disney I don't think they would be making thier statement.

 

[DBorges]

I don't think you have all the facts....

If you attempt to book a 2008 package with dining THIS appears.....


• The Dining Plan must be booked a minimum of 21 days before departure, it is only available on single centre holidays, and is not vaild for wedding packages, or cruise and stay packages. Bookings MUST include at least a 5 night stay at a Walt Disney World Resort Hotel AND Disney tickets, for all people on the booking, both booked through Virgin Holidays. The Disney Dining Plan must be booked for everyone on the booking, for the full duration of their stay. The Disney Dining Plan is only available on selected restaurants, full details can be provided on request. Children 3-9 years must order from the children's menu, where available. Children age 2 years and under are not eligible for the Dining Plan and must pay locally for any only food/drink consumed. The Dining Plan will not be vaild if the above conditions are not complied with. In these circumstances we reserve the right to alter your booking accordingly. Please note advanced Dining reservations are strongly suggested. All Dinner shows require advanced dining reservations - show tickets can be acquired through your hotels concierge. Please note: For guests wishing to stay at any Walt Disney World Resort hotel for longer than 21 nights, it will be necessary to check out of your room and then check back in on the 21st night due to Disney's regulations. Please note: For 2008 departures, the Disney Dining Plan package has been changed. The new dining plan no longer has a starter as part of the table service meal, and gratuities are no longer included in the price.


FACT!!!!

You have to agree to the above statement about the Dining Plan before you book it..... Now Disney could change thier mind, but Virgin would not have put this on thier booking conditions based on rumors on the DIS

I just found it on the Virgins site ok that is in writting
I have looked into this for three days and talk too several cast members about who all have no info about this what so ever.

It maybe the package they have arranged with disney

Now that i found it I wll dig further

Ok I am digging

As of 1200 pm today there is not one peice of info other then the posting on virgins site

Disneys IT department doesn't even have a clue about this..
Disney Dinning DVC res no one has this info

SO this yes does seem strange

On the phone with england as wee are sitting here

Ok here is the poop the contract that virgin has worked out with Disney is no starter and no tip and a reduced rate to get the plan..

This in no way is the usa plan nor is it to be assumed that it would change our plan>>

this was told to me by a superviser virgin whom i spoke to today at 12:27

Hope this helps

 

[DBorges]

Disney Booking knows nothing of this contract and also said it seems far fected that they would change it in this way..

I think time will tell the info is due to be released here in the states on or about aug 14th..

I do not think it will applie to us bookings

 

[disneynutz]

Disney Booking knows nothing of this contract and also said it seems far fected that they would change it in this way..

I think time will tell the info is due to be released here in the states on or about aug 14th..

I do not think it will applie to us bookings

Who cares? If the changes occur as expected then DDP is not for us. If it doesn't change I will use it for 4 or 5 days of our 11 day DVC stay just as we always have. Any more than that and we are sick of eating steak and lobster. We don't fall into the DDP trap using it for hamburgers.

 

[DBorges]

Who cares? If the changes occur as expected then DDP is not for us. If it doesn't change I will use it for 4 or 5 days of our 11 day DVC stay just as we always have. Any more than that and we are sick of eating steak and lobster. We don't fall into the DDP trap using it for hamburgers.

I use it for counter service when in a park but other then that i eat at good full service places either way I think i would still use it .

To me this is ore of the priciple of people assuming that it will change.

Rumor !!!!!



Hell I look forward to my 15 extra pounds I gain on vacation ..

I just wish that the rumor mill could get it right so people do not have to guess at what they think Disney will do..

 

[Chuck S]

Since this change has been negotiated with Virgin (according to Virgin), I don't doubt that the regular DDP will make similar changes...UNLESS the Virgin plan uses paper vouchers, rather than being encoded onto the room keys. Othwise, it would be way too confusing for the servers/restauants to differentiate between the plans in day to day use. They already have the DDE, the DDP, and a gold/platinum plan to keep up with.

 

[disneynutz]

I use it for counter service when in a park but other then that i eat at good full service places either way I think i would still use it .

To me this is ore of the priciple of people assuming that it will change.

Rumor !!!!!



Hell I look forward to my 15 extra pounds I gain on vacation ..

I just wish that the rumor mill could get it right so people do not have to guess at what they think Disney will do..

You can guess, call, verify, all you want. What will be will be. Like I said. We will wait and see what happens. For us a $22.00 per adult per day increase is not worth it. That's $62 per day for the DDP.

 

[JimMIA]

Disney Booking knows nothing of this contract

Disney CRO and Disney Dining are always the last to know. Or at least the last to admit they know.

And even your "superviser virgin whom i spoke to today at 12:27" (not sure what that is! ) doesn't seem to know what is on their own website.

I can call a thousand know-nothings -- that proves nothing except that they don't know anything.

However, I think the information I've seen on one side, most of which has been independently verified to some degree, outweighs the people who say they don't know. I have seen the following verified information on the DIS:

1. The contract was renegotiated to permit elimination of the gratuity from the DDP.
2. WDW servers who have been right on all aspects of the DDP for years say the gratuity is gone.
3. DIS members in the UK, who have already purchased packages for 2008 (many UK travelers book a year or more in advance) have been officially notified in writing, by Virgin Holidays, that the Disney Dining Plan they purchased has been changed. The changes cited are elimination of the "starter" on the TS meal, and elimination of the gratuity. This is not a change in Virgin's package, they say the Disney Dining Plan has changed.
4. The same wording cited in the letters from Virgin Holidays appears on their website as part of the new pre-purchase agreement all purchasers must agree to in order to book. It says, no "starter" and no gratuity included for 2008.

When I read all of that information -- and see it independently verified by posters I respect and trust, as well as verifying some of it myself -- the best case scenario I can come up with for 2008 is I hope they include the option of a soup or salad in place of the appetizer. And maybe include the appy on 2 TS meals. I can't get any more hopeful than that...sorry.

None of us know for sure, but I believe both the appy and tip are history.

Some families may still benefit from DDP under those conditions, but many will not.

 

[salmoneous]

Since this change has been negotiated with Virgin (according to Virgin),

Just to be nitpicky, Virgin has not said they have negotiated such a change with Disney. Virgin has put something on a website that has lead people to conclude that they have negotiated something with Disney.

We'll just have to wait and see...

 

[BCV23]

Still more speculation on this thread...3 meals/day, bottle of wine and mugs.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1526120

If starters are gone, I wouldn't think a salad or soup would be allowed.

Personally, I'd rather the desserts be off and appetizer still included.

 

[CarolA]

Well one I am amazed that someone cares enough to call the UK from MA just to see what they can find out.

However, the really interesting part is that if Virgin did this to save money they sure as heck aren't passing it on to thier guests. Over on the DDP board someone actually figured out the incremental cost for the DDP from Virgin. I think its around $50 a day.... So Virgin guests get LESS for more money???

(posters who buy the package via Virgin have pointed out that Virgins pricing tradionally does not mirror Disney's but has different mark ups. However, they must give a good value overall based on the bookings!)

As for the link BCV23 posted.... I think it's about as truthful as my announcement of the Eagle Pins "rustic" retreat..... (that was the one where your DVC membership let you camp in case you missed it!) Disney is not giving away wine.... There are LAWS against that LOL! (Not to mention every Southern Baptist within 10,000 miles would be demanding a refund for the "wages of sin" )