DDP changes for 2009?

[ontario2orlando]

We've not experienced dining at Disney yet. We'll be on the basic DDP this summer for 7 days. The idea of buying credits would be better. Then families could choose how many sit down dinners they want to have. As it stands we are pawing over places to eat because we're paying for the table service so we better well use it.

By having a prepaid food plan they can offer many marketing schemes and incentives and discounts. There is an infinite number of promos they could run with a system like that.

As a culinary artist by trade, I've never appreciated or respected servers. They work hard, but only deliver the product. Your gratuity is optional, should never be mandatory. You are paying for their performance, and I do mean their acting! As part of my culinary training in San Francisco we took the Marriot hospitality training. There were many exercises in acting and attentiveness. It's a show.

If tips were mandatory for TS at WDW in the future, our family would only consider the CS. Then, we'd leave property for special meals while on vacation. Not all people could do that and many folks would just pay the tips. When you already include the tip though, don't expect a flighty server to perform to top bill. They already know what they are getting. This will ring true even if it is not included and the server doesn't think the client will tip much. There are certain clients you know will tip big and others so so and others that are likely to not tip at all. Experienced servers catch on to customer stereotypes.

BTW, I know my comments are a bit stiff on servers. I did do my stint as a server and front of the house positions. Trust me, you don't want to know what they are saying about you at the server station, or at the expeditor's station.

 

[mom2my3kids]

This is my view on what should be on the 09 dining plan..

Raise the price to 40.99

One snack per day of either popcorn, ice cream, drink etc..
Counter Service meal is a meal plus drink no more desert item.
Dinner give the choice of app or desert.. gratuity added back in..
They would save on the snack, plus save on the no desert on the counter service.
Make a different price for 10-13 year old, paying adult price is ridiculous.
That would make up for the added gratuity my two thoughts..

 

[Tricia1972]

as most, I'd like to see included gratuity in exchange for a higher priced plan (I'm all about convenience!). however, i agree with pp and think we're more likely to see a mandatory oop gratuity instead.

I'd also like a return of appetizers, but not like the previous plan. Looking over the menus, I realized the only real appetizers I was interested in were mainly breads - the rest I could do without. Perhaps to provide an appetizer but still cut down on service time as compared to each individual ordering, a standard table appetizer could be provided - bread with butter or dip, salad bowl, chips/salsa...brought to the table with a stack of plates/bowls. Keep it simple.

I really like the idea of a simplified appetizer! If you're on DDP you get a bread basket with your meal or a bowl of tortilla chips with salsa.

 

[Lewisc]

Sound logic. Disney is going to look at 2008 DDP bookings, compared to projections. Too many guests skip the dining plan and Disney will improve it. Buffets and all you care to eat restaurants still include appetizers. This just makes the dining plan less valuable in the a la carte restaurants. The same restaurants where guests were able to order food that was worth twice the value of the plan.

Disney came up with the deluxe dining plan to accommodate guests who want to pay more and get more.

I'll be skipping the dining plan next trip. The previous plans allowed guests to save money even if we skipped elements of the plan, as you documented. My savings will be minimal if I skip desserts, pay for appetizers and get snacks that I don't really want.

Too bad the only vote we get is with our dollars.

I'm curious to hear from BuffaloGal with regard to how well the optional gratuity for parties of five or less is working out. Her perspective, as a server, is probably going to be very enlightening with regard to whether or not WDW is going to make any changes there. I haven't read anything indicating that the exclusion of the appetizer is having much negative impact. People "wish" that the appetizer was included, or "wish" that it was an option instead of the dessert (like I "wish" the cable company didn't charge $18 extra per month for premium movie channels ), but I just don't believe a substantial number of people want to pay $50 per person per day to have both appetizer and dessert included in the standard Dining Plan. So it seems to me that the most likely change we'll see will be focused on the gratuity, if at all.

 

[Tricia1972]

Ducking for cover,

It make sense to charge adult prices for children 10 + since guests that age pay adult prices for buffets, price fixed meals and technically don't qualify to order off the kids menu. Disney made the change so they would have the age rules for tickets and for meals. I don't see Disney reducing profitability by discounting that age group.

I agree with this statement. Disney will price/judge adults across the board.

I feel that the DDP, Ticket Prices and even the exclusion of children 9 and under at Victoria & Albert's proves this. It shows a uniformity across the board on their determination of adult.

If they add a menu for the 10-13 crowd, then they would be prodded also adjust ticket prices to include a junior rate. Otherwise they'll get guests complaining "But my child is a JUNIOR for dining, why are they paying an ADULT ticket price?"

Yes there are many valid reasons why that'd be the case (child's height for riding rides, etc), but Disney has enough complaints to deal with already. I doubt that they'd leave themselves open for a backlash like that.

Also junior menus would mean that Disney would have to create an entire third dining menu. This menu would have decreased prices and decreased portion sizes. Adults would see this Junior menu and want to order off of it. Many adults feel that portion sizes (and costs) are too high, this Junior Menu would be just the fit for them.

 

[YesMickey]

I agree with this statement. Disney will price/judge adults across the board.

I feel that the DDP, Ticket Prices and even the exclusion of children 9 and under at Victoria & Albert's proves this. It shows a uniformity across the board on their determination of adult.

If they add a menu for the 10-13 crowd, then they would be prodded also adjust ticket prices to include a junior rate. Otherwise they'll get guests complaining "But my child is a JUNIOR for dining, why are they paying an ADULT ticket price?"

Yes there are many valid reasons why that'd be the case (child's height for riding rides, etc), but Disney has enough complaints to deal with already. I doubt that they'd leave themselves open for a backlash like that.

Also junior menus would mean that Disney would have to create an entire third dining menu. This menu would have decreased prices and decreased portion sizes. Adults would see this Junior menu and want to order off of it. Many adults feel that portion sizes (and costs) are too high, this Junior Menu would be just the fit for them.

What does the price of food in relation to the consumption of food have to do with ticket prices. I haven't read anywhere where people were commenting on park tickets being too high. In my opinion WDW was constructed for this age group (10-13). The meal plan and the park tickets are two complete seperate things. IE. has anyone ever gotten free park tickets when they purchase the dining plan? I don't think so. If they can give free dining away, then what is the big deal with adjusting the prices a little bit to make it more appealling/affordable to the people that keep the machine running? Which is the family from mid-american with 2-3 kids.

 

[Tricia1972]

What does the price of food in relation to the consumption of food have to do with ticket prices. I haven't read anywhere where people were commenting on park tickets being too high. In my opinion WDW was constructed for this age group (10-13). The meal plan and the park tickets are two complete seperate things. IE. has anyone ever gotten free park tickets when they purchase the dining plan? I don't think so. If they can give free dining away, then what is the big deal with adjusting the prices a little bit to make it more appealling/affordable to the people that keep the machine running? Which is the family from mid-american with 2-3 kids.

It has to do with conformity across the board. They say that 10 year olds are adults and they are making it consistent across the board. Park Tickets, Dining, Victoria & Albert's.

To create a subcategory for Junior Dining is to say that a 10-12 year old isn't an adult. It may not happen right away, but I would bet you a paycheck that some (perhaps many) people would complain that they're paying adult ticket prices for their junior. Disney would have to answer why sometimes a 10 year old is an adult and why sometimes they aren't. It may be clear to you that it's based on food consumption, but it won't be clear to everyone.

I have seen complaints on these boards about paying adult park ticket prices for their 10 year old kids.


My consumption reference was a reference to the dangers to Disney of having a Junior menu. I know of many adults who feel that portions are too large. To them saving a bit and getting just the right size entree for dinner would look very attractive. This would cut into Disney's profits.

 

[Lewisc]

Disney sell packages. Disney decided it was easier to explain/administer if the age for adult tickets was the same as the age for adults for the meal plan. Disney has an adult rate and a child rate. Infants don't pay for tickets and don't pay for the meal plan. Once the meal plan charged 10 year old the adult rate it was easy for Disney to justify reducing the age for adult meals to 10.

The actual cost to Disney for food consumed (ingredients) has very little to do with the price Disney charges for meals.

What does the price of food in relation to the consumption of food have to do with ticket prices. I haven't read anywhere where people were commenting on park tickets being too high. In my opinion WDW was constructed for this age group (10-13). The meal plan and the park tickets are two complete seperate things. IE. has anyone ever gotten free park tickets when they purchase the dining plan? I don't think so. If they can give free dining away, then what is the big deal with adjusting the prices a little bit to make it more appealling/affordable to the people that keep the machine running? Which is the family from mid-american with 2-3 kids.

 

[YesMickey]

It has to do with conformity across the board. They say that 10 year olds are adults and they are making it consistent across the board. Park Tickets, Dining, Victoria & Albert's.

To create a subcategory for Junior Dining is to say that a 10-12 year old isn't an adult. It may not happen right away, but I would bet you a paycheck that some (perhaps many) people would complain that they're paying adult ticket prices for their junior. Disney would have to answer why sometimes a 10 year old is an adult and why sometimes they aren't. It may be clear to you that it's based on food consumption, but it won't be clear to everyone.

I have seen complaints on these boards about paying adult park ticket prices for their 10 year old kids.


My consumption reference was a reference to the dangers to Disney of having a Junior menu. I know of many adults who feel that portions are too large. To them saving a bit and getting just the right size entree for dinner would look very attractive. This would cut into Disney's profits.

But my argument is that they give the dining plan away during certain times of the year (mostly Hurricane Season), and for a family of four 10and up for a 6 night stay that could be around $800-$900 they are "giving away" for a trip that may cost the family around $1600 for room and tickets. I read where everybody states the reasoning is profit for Disney, but they are willing to give up $900 to net $700. HMMMM. If they are willing to do that, then why not do an adjustment for the 10-13yr olds to keep the numbers up that are using the ddp. Because come '09 the number of guest will dwindle who are on the plan. This may occurr later this year anyway. But then again this may be there plan, to kill the dining plan.

 

[bicker]

I'm not sure the plan is to "kill" the plan, but rather to change it from being a discount plan to being a pre-payment plan. Regardless, the value of giving it away free as an incentive is related to projected load levels if the incentive wasn't offered, and would be considered in the context of the cost of, value of, and projected effectiveness of other incentives they may consider.

 

[Tricia1972]

But my argument is that they give the dining plan away during certain times of the year (mostly Hurricane Season), and for a family of four 10and up for a 6 night stIay that could be around $800-$900 they are "giving away" for a trip that may cost the family around $1600 for room and tickets. I read where everybody states the reasoning is profit for Disney, but they are willing to give up $900 to net $700. HMMMM. If they are willing to do that, then why not do an adjustment for the 10-13yr olds to keep the numbers up that are using the ddp. Because come '09 the number of guest will dwindle who are on the plan. This may occurr later this year anyway. But then again this may be there plan, to kill the dining plan.

Are you saying that they create a special junior menu just for the kids of parents using the DDP?

 

[Lewisc]

I'll speculate some of the changes were made so Disney could (profitably) continue to offer free dining. Increasing the price, and keeping the benefits the same, would make it harder for Disney to justify offering free dining.

Offering a deluxe plan allows Disney to accommodate guests who want to pay more and get more.

Assuming Disney wants to continue offer free dining I'd expect more cutback in the basic plan with adjustments made in the deluxe plan.

I'm not sure the plan is to "kill" the plan, but rather to change it from being a discount plan to being a pre-payment plan. Regardless, the value of giving it away free as an incentive is related to projected load levels if the incentive wasn't offered, and would be considered in the context of the cost of, value of, and projected effectiveness of other incentives they may consider.

 

[PrincessAurora]

As a culinary artist by trade, I've never appreciated or respected servers. They work hard, but only deliver the product. Your gratuity is optional, should never be mandatory. You are paying for their performance, and I do mean their acting! As part of my culinary training in San Francisco we took the Marriot hospitality training. There were many exercises in acting and attentiveness. It's a show.

OK Dude you just poked the bear. Part of this is forgivable since you are not from this Country. I have no idea how they do things in Canada but in the United States servers are TAXED on 8% of the total check. So if I don't make more than 8% tip on checks I am losing money. Most servers are only paid minimum wage and make their living on tips. Chefs on the other hand are very well paid.

Also what if your food is bad? What if your flavor profiles have fallen flat or it is cooked wrong or seasoned poorly? You do not get your pay docked but that can effect the servers tip.

You should honor the customs of the country you are traveling in. If I am in Europe and they do not tip, then I don't tip. If I am in a country where they do, then I do. It's no different than conforming to customs of manner and dress when you are in someone else's Country (house). It is just manners.

BTW - while I have waited tables in the past, I am now a Chef and find your comments pretentious and insulting to the people who work for you. If they just carry your product, then it is only fair that if your product is substandard, that you suffer the financial consequences as well.

 

[PrincessAurora]

As far as the topic goes, I would like the tip reinstated (if the service is bad, a manager can rectify that). Also having a choice of appetizer and dessert would be good as well.

I understand that desserts give Disney a larger profit margin than an appetizer. It would be nice to have that option but it would be nice to have World Peace as well. Ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

While I have no problem with the age limit for kids I DO think there should either be more choices OR a smaller adult portion for the kids that want that item.

 

[Tricia1972]

As far as the topic goes, I would like the tip reinstated (if the service is bad, a manager can rectify that). Also having a choice of appetizer and dessert would be good as well.

I understand that desserts give Disney a larger profit margin than an appetizer. It would be nice to have that option but it would be nice to have World Peace as well. Ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

While I have no problem with the age limit for kids I DO think there should either be more choices OR a smaller adult portion for the kids that want that item.

You made me giggle with the World Peace comment! That's so true!

I think expanding the kids menu is a wonderful idea! Even if they had to increase the prices a little bit, it would be nice for the kids.

 

[bicker]

Are you saying that they create a special junior menu just for the kids of parents using the DDP?

This is kind-of an aside, but I think the whole "junior menu" is a big red herring. How often do juniors visit WDW without their parents? Not often. So if there is a value difference between meals eaten by juniors and meals eaten by adults, then that value difference is averaged out -- the lower value juniors derive from meals already exerts its downward pressure on menu prices. So the net-result of junior pricing would be lower prices for juniors and higher prices for their parents. (I know, and respect, that a lot of folks would like to believe that that would not be the case; unfortunately, it is. Reducing the amount of food on a plate has very very minimal impact on the cost of serving that patron in a restaurant. There will be a cost to be paid for junior pricing and that cost will be higher menu prices overall.)

 

[Tricia1972]

This is kind-of an aside, but I think the whole "junior menu" is a big red herring. How often do juniors visit WDW without their parents? Not often. So if there is a value difference between meals eaten by juniors and meals eaten by adults, then that value difference is averaged out -- the lower value juniors derive from meals already exerts its downward pressure on menu prices. So the net-result of junior pricing would be lower prices for juniors and higher prices for their parents. (I know, and respect, that a lot of folks would like to believe that that would not be the case; unfortunately, it is. Reducing the amount of food on a plate has very very minimal impact on the cost of serving that patron in a restaurant. There will be a cost to be paid for junior pricing and that cost will be higher menu prices overall.)

I agree with you 100%! That's an excellent point, and an angel I hadn't considered.

I think my previous posts also indicate a few other reasons I don't feel that a Junior Menu would work out. Just don't want my question to make it seem like I am supporting the idea.

 

[byoung]

I agree with above. I would like to see it go back to the way it was.

I'm along here.

 

[betty123]

Disney will never get the tip included option back. It was done away with in large part due to the poor service of the servers. Since the servers knew they were getting a set percentage of the bill they did not work hard to make the experience pleasurable.

 

[clowe247]

Dec. 06 we had great service on the dining plan. Returned this jan poor service . Like at Ohanas Our server asked to see our card. After see it he asked how we were going to pay. We told him we were on the dining plan and not going to order anything extra. He rolled his eyes and let a huff and said Well for my services of course."
the last time I checked a tip was EARNED, ot just a given. Bring back the old dining plan and let us choose Appy of Dessert.