DDE to Dining Plan comparison

[Chuck S]

From my experiences with Disney, as a stockholder, consumer and working there, people from Orlando and the surrounding area are a small part of their business.

Your experiences as a stockholder...ummm what "experiences" as a stockholder? I'm a stockholder, too. I haven't seen Disney releasing attendance records and guest demographics to stockholders, have you? People "from Orlando" is a very broad term, again, it would include friends and family staying with relatives. Often those relatives accompany their guests to the parks. I know when we lived in Los Angeles we played "tour guide" for visiting guests often, we never said "Oh, you should go to Disneyland". We TOOK them to Disneyland and other attractions and spent the day with them.

In most of those situations, there is no way the houseguest would consider staying onsite to "save a few bucks" on food. Hmmm, I can stay for free with my friend/relative. Would having even free dining at Disney encourage folks to spend money on a hotel room, except perhaps one or two nights at a Value resort? Or would raising the prices simply encourage them to visit the parks, eat a snack instead of a table service meal, then have dinner offsite?

I think a pre-paid dining plan (unless it is free) is not the sole deciding factor to get people to stay onsite that are normally perfectly happy to stay offsite. Rather, I think it is the current combination of free DME, better ticket pricing (MYW), the dining plan, plus the 50th Celebration media blitz.. But high dining prices CAN be the sole deciding factor to turn locals and day visitors to offsite restaurants.

 

[Cinderella]

Have just worked out the value for us. At sit down meals we always have three courses - and usually eat the more expensive things from the menu. I compared costs against DDE discount, and even taken the discount into consideration, we would still save $80 per day for 2 adults, one child aged 11 and one child aged 8. This plan will work out just great for us and we will still use DDE discount for wine.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Your experiences as a stockholder...ummm what "experiences" as a stockholder? I'm a stockholder, too. I haven't seen Disney releasing attendance records and guest demographics to stockholders, have you? People "from Orlando" is a very broad term, again, it would include friends and family staying with relatives. Often those relatives accompany their guests to the parks. I know when we lived in Los Angeles we played "tour guide" for visiting guests often, we never said "Oh, you should go to Disneyland". We TOOK them to Disneyland and other attractions and spent the day with them.

In most of those situations, there is no way the houseguest would consider staying onsite to "save a few bucks" on food. Hmmm, I can stay for free with my friend/relative. Would having even free dining at Disney encourage folks to spend money on a hotel room, except perhaps one or two nights at a Value resort? Or would raising the prices simply encourage them to visit the parks, eat a snack instead of a table service meal, then have dinner offsite?

I think a pre-paid dining plan (unless it is free) is not the sole deciding factor to get people to stay onsite that are normally perfectly happy to stay offsite. Rather, I think it is the current combination of free DME, better ticket pricing (MYW), the dining plan, plus the 50th Celebration media blitz.. But high dining prices CAN be the sole deciding factor to turn locals and day visitors to offsite restaurants.

Maybe you don't research your stock purchases as extensively as I do. That research is more what I mean.

Again though, the day visitors are not the biggest profit generators with Disney. Neither are locals. Most of those will never stay on site. Yes, while the DP is not the sole factor to get people to stay on site, the value vacation package, of which DP is a part of, can easily get more people to stay on-site.

But obviously we will have to agree to disagree on this. I am not sure if you are resident or not... it seems like you are. Either way, it seems like you think Disney makes the majority of its theme park money on day visitors and on locals. I would strongly disagree with this notion. The money is in people on longer term (5 or more days) vacations. They spend more overall at the parks. The goal is to get as many of those people to spend as much money as possible at Disney. They spend more money when they stay on property. Add in the DP to a package as a perceived value, GUARANTEES that that money is spent with Disney. Hence why them doing something like a big price increase casually over a period of time, would not surprise me as it will make this option to the biggest moneymaking audience seem like a much bigger value, THUS selling more plans.

Yes, I am sure you disagree with me, but as I said, this is conjecture not fact that they will do it. Of course most of this conjecture was based on precidents sent in the Eisner era, so with the new CEO, things could very well change. Maybe they do it, maybe they don't. All I said was that I think if they do this, it will increase profitabilty overall, a notion you disagree with obviously, based on the possible alienation of the day tripper and locals. I just don't see this alienation happening in my opinion. Again, though, we must agree to disagree.

 

[Chuck S]

I live in Texas. I did not say the majority of $$ is generated by locals, did I? Nor has Disney ever released the demographics of their guests to stockholders, so how could any figures be deemed factual?

But certainly local and day visitors are a contibuting factor to the success of the theme parks, a big enough factor to not be discounted entirely, based on the sheer number of FL resident passes sold. I would also speculate that DVC members are enough of a guest percentage (and an increasing percentage) not to be discounted entirely, as Disney saw fit to offer us a good AP discount. Alienating either of these groups would be counter productive. But certainly the vast majority of profit is the occasional or "once in a lifetime" guest, paying full price for packages.

But again, how would anyone know that gradual price increases over time could be attributed to trying to market the dining plan vs reasonable normal operating cost increases? Disney was been raising prices regularly prior to the current DP, they didn't seem to have any major marketing push for the Silver & Gold plans then. To assume a price increase was solely for making the DP look like a better value would be very presumputious.

The point of his thread is simply to get folks to compare the cost of their normal dining habits to the cost of the soon to be offered DP to see if it is of value to them, as often "percieved" value is not a reality, but a good marketing tool, much like Blockbusters "no late fees" promotion.

 

[yitbos96bb]

I live in Texas. I did not say the majority of $$ is generated by locals, did I? Nor has Disney ever released the demographics of their guests to stockholders, so how could any figures be deemed factual?

But certainly local and day visitors are a contibuting factor to the success of the theme parks, a big enough factor to not be discounted entirely, based on the sheer number of FL resident passes sold. I would also speculate that DVC members are enough of a guest percentage (and an increasing percentage) not to be discounted entirely, as Disney saw fit to offer us a good AP discount. But certainly the vast majority of profit is the occasional or "once in a lifetime" guest, paying full price for packages.

But again, how would anyone know that gradual price increases over time could be attributed to trying to market the dining plan vs reasonable normal operating cost increases? Disney was been raising prices regularly prior to the current DP, they didn't seem to have any major marketing push for the Silver & Gold plans then. To assume a price increase was solely for making the DP look like a better value would be very presumputious.

The point of his thread is simply to get folks to compare the cost of their normal dining habits to the cost of the soon to be offered DP to see if it is of value to them, as often "percieved" value is not a reality, but a good marketing tool, much like Blockbusters "no late fees" promotion.

Sorry if i misunderstood you. It seemed like you were implying that day traffic and locals were more important business. Obviously I misunderstood.

I think you are misunderstanding me as well. I know we will never know for sure WHY Disney is raising prices. The whole point of this conjecture is looking at how the CEO and other senior execs might think. That is all. I can see them making a strong business case for this... not one you say publically. Again, not all increases are due to higher costs... even though that is usually the reason given in any industry. Look at the Oil Industry. The price of gas went up to cover additional costs, yet was that really the reason they went up or was it the excuse. An argument could be made the rising costs for gas was only a small reason, given the fact the industry made record profits.

As I said, we won't know if that is the reason why they (Disney raises prices). It is all conjecture and academic in this discussion. It just wouldn't surprise me if this line of thinking has popped up at the Mouse House. And it wouldn't surprise me to look at Dining pricing now and then look 12-18 months and see a substancial increase. If it is just a $1 or so across the board for Entrees then I would agree with you that it is just an expense cost increase to maintain current profit levels. If it is higher, then I would bet that there is something else as well going on.

But it really is no big deal. Just simple conjecture. But the fact we can disagree and have a great conversation with no one getting their feelings hurt is what makes these boards a lot better than many of the other ones out there.


One other thing... I never discounted DVC members. Not all DVC members have APs. But DVC is another example of guarenteed money being spent at Disney.

 

[yitbos96bb]

One more thing:

I am not saying they SHOULD do this. I can just see the business argument for it. Personally I think it is a little anti-consumer... But I guess I have grown up in the cynical age of consumerism where i feel most companies.. even Disney, don't really care as much about the consumer as they used too.

 

[Dean]

Interesting... I am still curious if the squeaky wheel can get greased... Or if maybe they have unofficially changed the policy and those who would know about DDE but don't buy an AP and aren't FL residents (a small number I am sure you'd agree) could purchase it at the $75 price. If anyone is going soon and wants to try, I encourage you to just see if you can get it and let us know.

Our two 3 day weekends would have been $32 per day average without any discounts though some are actually on the DVC list. Thus we'd have averaged around $30-31 per day per person for two 3 Day weekends and only the DVC discounts and one of those meals was for dinner at a Signature restaurant. IMO, a plan such as this needs to do one of two things. It either needs to represent a real savings of 10-20% OR it needs to be a break even AND give one significant choices that are desired but would be a splurge otherwise. Just because it would cost as much or more to pay cash for the same items one were to get on the DP doesn't automatically make it a deal. The question is would you, or even should you, eat that way without the plan. In Chuck's break even situation, it would be totally nuts to buy a plan such as this.

To think Disney would raise prices simply to direct people to this plan is pretty far fetched, regardless the underlying motivation. There will still be many who don't have the plan and Disney's prices are certainly high enough already. And if they do raise prices, they will certainly also raise the cost of the DP accordingly. Whether the DDE will go away is the real question in my book, and I'd say no. Going on the FnF experience, I'd say Disney will tinker with this once or twice a year until it has absolutely no value for anyone, then it will go away or be used only for specials like the free dining this fall.

 

[patsal]

Well, I can ive you a ballpark figure. Take my actual total of $592.37, subtract the Sunshine Food Court and CP meals, as they were not eligible for DDE, for a total of $478.23...add 20% (95.65), for a new total of $688.02. DDP $683.82 About a $5 savings over 9 days with the DDP.

Now, if there is tax charged on that $683.82 of 6.5% (and we don't know if there will be of not), that total will be $728.26, or still a $40 savings on cash without DDE.

So, in our case, a $5 difference would be a wash. But there is still the risk that if someone gets ill or can not eat all the meal credits, there are no refunds on unused credits...for me personally, I'd rather not risk possibly loosing $$ to save $5.

I'm not sure if I understand the "tax" thing, but I will give an example from my experiences--of course the DP was $35. including tax pp. The total for the DP will be 37.99 and that price includes tax. When you dine the tax is added to your total bill as well as tip, both are covered. Thus if the meal were $150 for a family of four the tax on that as well as the tip for that is included with your purchase price of $37.99 per person. So for the $150.00 meal $9.75 of tax and $22.50 tip are also included. Again my $152.00 for dining plan per day including tax got me one dinner that was $182.25 and I still have 4CS and 4 snack credits left for the rest of the days dining.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Our two 3 day weekends would have been $32 per day average without any discounts though some are actually on the DVC list. Thus we'd have averaged around $30-31 per day per person for two 3 Day weekends and only the DVC discounts and one of those meals was for dinner at a Signature restaurant. IMO, a plan such as this needs to do one of two things. It either needs to represent a real savings of 10-20% OR it needs to be a break even AND give one significant choices that are desired but would be a splurge otherwise. Just because it would cost as much or more to pay cash for the same items one were to get on the DP doesn't automatically make it a deal. The question is would you, or even should you, eat that way without the plan. In Chuck's break even situation, it would be totally nuts to buy a plan such as this.

To think Disney would raise prices simply to direct people to this plan is pretty far fetched, regardless the underlying motivation. There will still be many who don't have the plan and Disney's prices are certainly high enough already. And if they do raise prices, they will certainly also raise the cost of the DP accordingly. Whether the DDE will go away is the real question in my book, and I'd say no. Going on the FnF experience, I'd say Disney will tinker with this once or twice a year until it has absolutely no value for anyone, then it will go away or be used only for specials like the free dining this fall.

I agree. For Chuck, this deal makes no sense, and is break even without DDE. For you (provided your sum includes Tip in it), it doesn't either. But for others it does. We spent WELL over the per day price when we did the plan. Our Bill totals per day with Tips came to around $50 per person at TS and $10-12 per person for CS. So it was well worth it for us. Others have said the same thing. If you are going to order an appetizer, entree and desert at 1 TS meal and have a CS for the other... then at the LEAST the DP is break even (and that is with you ordering the cheapest thing at every TS), and most likely you come out ahead. If you do not want to eat all the food involved (as others have said they won't or can't) then it isn't a value for you.

And on my conjecture of a POSSIBILITY that they might do something lke that... Look at American Business and all the stuff that is pulled these days. It is strongly within the realm of possibility. It really isn't a far fetched idea. AS I HAVE SAID REPEATEDLY, i am not saying it will happen. But I could see it happening. That was all that was said.

Also, I think you are dead wrong that it will just fade away. It is a good deal for a lot of People and until it becomes a money loser or is not popular due to the value fading, it will be around for a while.

But lets just agree to disagree on this.

 

[yitbos96bb]

I'm not sure if I understand the "tax" thing, but I will give an example from my experiences--of course the DP was $35. including tax pp. The total for the DP will be 37.99 and that price includes tax. When you dine the tax is added to your total bill as well as tip, both are covered. Thus if the meal were $150 for a family of four the tax on that as well as the tip for that is included with your purchase price of $37.99 per person. So for the $150.00 meal $9.75 of tax and $22.50 tip are also included. Again my $152.00 for dining plan per day including tax got me one dinner that was $182.25 and I still have 4CS and 4 snack credits left for the rest of the days dining.

Thus like myself, it is a good deal for you.

 

[yitbos96bb]

I'm not sure if I understand the "tax" thing, but I will give an example from my experiences--of course the DP was $35. including tax pp. The total for the DP will be 37.99 and that price includes tax. When you dine the tax is added to your total bill as well as tip, both are covered. Thus if the meal were $150 for a family of four the tax on that as well as the tip for that is included with your purchase price of $37.99 per person. So for the $150.00 meal $9.75 of tax and $22.50 tip are also included. Again my $152.00 for dining plan per day including tax got me one dinner that was $182.25 and I still have 4CS and 4 snack credits left for the rest of the days dining.

For Tax, Chuck meant Tax on the 37.99. No one is sure whether the 37.99 includes taxes or not. If you look at Chuck's rundown of his last visit, he and his traveling companion (s) don't eat that much. Since they aren't eating appetizer, dessert and Entree at every meal, and not eating CS all that much, the DP makes no sense.

 

[Dean]

Also, I think you are dead wrong that it will just fade away. It is a good deal for a lot of People and until it becomes a money loser or is not popular due to the value fading, it will be around for a while.

But lets just agree to disagree on this.

Remember this program is extremely similar to the FnF of the mid 90's other than it's food without the fun. The FnF was continually changed, the fun was eliminated and the program became nothing more than a total commitment for nothing more than a 10% discount when the DDE gave you 20%. This is a specialty program at best. Some can get value from it, others can convince themselves there is value when there likely is not most of the time and this is likely the larger group. On pervious threads, many have posted it would not be a value for them while others have said it would be.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Remember this program is extremely similar to the FnF of the mid 90's other than it's food without the fun. The FnF was continually changed, the fun was eliminated and the program became nothing more than a total commitment for nothing more than a 10% discount when the DDE gave you 20%. This is a specialty program at best. Some can get value from it, others can convince themselves there is value when there likely is not most of the time and this is likely the larger group. On pervious threads, many have posted it would not be a value for them while others have said it would be.

Um yes, but the discount on the DP is about 30% (according to disney) if you take advantage of the full value included with the program. If you go back to the original thread, I do a comparison of the DDE to someone using the DP and on an ITEM TO ITEM basis, the DP is a better savings value. BUT, as I also point out, if you order less food and don't take advantage of the Dessert and Appetizer, then the DDE is better (although it seems that at times people forget not everyone can order the DDE, whereas the DP everyone can order). If you order lots of alcohol OR eat at more than 1 TS a day, then obviously the DDE is a much better deal than the DP. But only a small minority of visitors are eligible for the DDE, which makes the DP a much better deal for the majority of people staying on property who can not get a DDE. WIll there be tweaks? Of Course, but until the plan becomes unpopular or unprofitable, it will be here for a while.

So, no it isn't at all like the FnF, because FnF was not implemented that well, vs the DP which is implemented a heck of a lot better and is a greater value, IMHO. I know with your Dining Habits the DDE is a better option, but it isn't for all people. I am not sure why you are so ANTI Dining Plan (or at least coming off as so Anti-DP), when it really is a good thing for a lot of people, just as the DDE is a good deal for a lot of people as well as you point out has been stated. But to say it is simply a specialty plan is absolutely ridiculous to me. Again though, before a board argument erupts, lets just drop it and agree to disagree.

 

[Dean]

Um yes, but the discount on the DP is about 30% (according to disney) if you take advantage of the full value included with the program. If you go back to the original thread, I do a comparison of the DDE to someone using the DP and on an ITEM TO ITEM basis, the DP is a better savings value. BUT, as I also point out, if you order less food and don't take advantage of the Dessert and Appetizer, then the DDE is better (although it seems that at times people forget not everyone can order the DDE, whereas the DP everyone can order). If you order lots of alcohol OR eat at more than 1 TS a day, then obviously the DDE is a much better deal than the DP. But only a small minority of visitors are eligible for the DDE, which makes the DP a much better deal for the majority of people staying on property who can not get a DDE. WIll there be tweaks? Of Course, but until the plan becomes unpopular or unprofitable, it will be here for a while.

So, no it isn't at all like the FnF, because FnF was not implemented that well, vs the DP which is implemented a heck of a lot better and is a greater value, IMHO. I know with your Dining Habits the DDE is a better option, but it isn't for all people. I am not sure why you are so ANTI Dining Plan (or at least coming off as so Anti-DP), when it really is a good thing for a lot of people, just as the DDE is a good deal for a lot of people as well as you point out has been stated. But to say it is simply a specialty plan is absolutely ridiculous to me. Again though, before a board argument erupts, lets just drop it and agree to disagree.

The plan itself is very similar to the FnF card in it's earlier trappings, it remains to be seen if it will be better administrated. Given that they haven't been able to enforce the rules that kids eat from the kids menu, I'd say it's definitely going down the same path. Every single person is eligible for the DDE, if they chose to pursue it. As for being anti DP, it depends on how you look at it. Do I think it is a good deal for most people, absolutely not. But as I've posted a number of times, it's value is best for families with kids that can take advantage of the system, those that have a larger party than they have to pay for (multiple rooms) shorter stays and those that are heavy eaters. And if one plans out their meals to use it for the most expensive places, choices, it could work out as well. but since it's a use or lose situation, there is an inherent risk that includes people becoming ill, emergencies, unexpected departures, the tendency to eat less as you go along and the like. Thus my feeling that it should actually save you money OR give you a lot more for your money that you truly want to make it worthwhile. IMO, many people have conned themselves into thinking it's a good deal for them and I'll bet that a number will find it really isn't, we've already had posts to that affect on DIS. But anyone can certainly take what ever risks they want and throw away money if they chose.

All I want is for people to think about what they're doing and do what's truly best for them. Don't forget there are other discount options available besides DDE and DP to include other AP discounts, DVC discounts, Safari club and ?AAA for Rainforest. And there are many ways to lessen the cost though I draw the line at the one I saw on mousesavers where you get a double meat burger and an extra bun then make two burgers out of it. Reminds me of a relative who bought a drink at a fast food restaurant then stopped at each one along a trip and filled up her drink. And using this type of plan takes away much of one of the major savings benefits of DVC, eating out less because of the kitchen but everyone's habits are different in that area.

Now if the info is true that it will be available for stays even shorter than 3 days, that could add further to the value for some. Besides, don't look at this as a disagreement, it's really not. We're just batting around some of the issues involved. Since not all the details have been release, there are still some wait and see as to price and limitations.

 

[NMW]

Are you sure you didn't misread or misunderstand the menu? What you are saying goes against what Cast Members and Guest Services has stated AND what is posted on the site. The only limitations were with Wolfgang and a few other non-disney restaurants.

When did you see this?


Edited:

http://adisneyworld.disney.go.com/m...ific/eng/nontheme/tickets/DiningLocations.pdf

Here is the link to Disney's website and the PDF I talked about earlier. The only ones listing surcharges are Wolfgang Pucks and Planet Hollywood (has anyone actually eaten at the Planet Hollywood in Disney? TO my knowledge, this is the only one left in the US, although they are defiling the Aladdin in Vegas and turning it into the Planet Hollywood Casino so I guess that will be number two)...

The only thing I can think of, other than a possible misunderstanding, would be that Brown Derby tried this either at the beginning or recently. I have a feeling that if that is true, Guest Relations got an earful. Anyone been to Brown Derby recently on the DP and know if they tried to limit you? I know in July at California Grill, the French Bistro and the Moroccan Restaurant, there were no restrictions (except alcohol). I even ordered a cheese plate OOP at CG and they threw it into the meal, even though we each got a califonia role appetizer (one of the best i have ever had for those who have not been to CG... Incredible food and fantastic view). I am curious when you went to the brown derby and saw this on the menu.

While we were not on the dining plan, we ate the Brown Derby about 4 weeks ago and saw nothing on the menu about dining plan resrictions. I read the whole menu too!

 

[NMW]

I think a lot of people on the DVC board underestimate the popularity of the dining plan, maybe it's because of the kitchens, I don't know. I just want to say that most of our friends, and people we know that have gone to Disney in the past year have raved about the dining plan (non-DVC members). We have friends that canceled their stay at the Nick Suites place for the YC, just so they could do the dining plan for their family of 5. They also scrapped going to Sea World because of the lower priced MYW tickets and the meal plan. They are going again in October, this time at the BWI and are doing the DP again. Our major hesitation in buying DVC was no longer being able to get a meal plan. We loved the gold/silver plans. We talked to our guide about it several times, and just decided to let it go.

We stayed 9 days at the BWV this month with the DDE card and I can't tell you how much we wished we had the meal plan. Our fast food lunches (family of 5) averaged about $45 (no DDE) a day and our dinners averaged about $120-$160 every night with the 20% discount. Not to mention sodas in the afternoon and my daughters popcorn (no DDE). The plan would have saved my family money and been a lot more fun and I'm thrilled we can now get it for our Oct 2006 trip!

To Dean, I don't have any experience with the food and fun plan, just the dreammaker gold or silver plans, but they were very well implemented and easy to use. All CM's knew all about them, and they were fun plans. Based on the number of times CM's asked us if we were on the dining plan during our last trip (most CS lunches, the MCDonalds fry cart-use can use a snack credit for it , the drink and popcorn carts, etc..) I think most CM's are aware of the DP and it would also be easy to use. Also, kids do need to eat from the kids menu on the DP, it says so in the literature on the plan. That's why so many places had kids appetizers on the kids menu last trip, I think.

 

[Dean]

To Dean, I don't have any experience with the food and fun plan, just the dreammaker gold or silver plans, but they were very well implemented and easy to use. All CM's knew all about them, and they were fun plans. Based on the number of times CM's asked us if we were on the dining plan during our last trip (most CS lunches, the MCDonalds fry cart-use can use a snack credit for it , the drink and popcorn carts, etc..) I think most CM's are aware of the DP and it would also be easy to use. Also, kids do need to eat from the kids menu on the DP, it says so in the literature on the plan. That's why so many places had kids appetizers on the kids menu last trip, I think.

At the time, CM were familiar with the FnF plan as well. Others may not be that familiar with the FnF history. Here are some of the variations that the program took.

• The original version was good for sitdown and counter service restaurants for 2 meals including app, entree & desert. It did exclude a number of the nicer restaurants and was more restrictive in that area than the current DP, IMO. It also included unlimited recreation (fishing exc, trail rides, watercraft & bikes (no surrey's). The first price I have is $47/13.50 and included tip but I don't recall about tax. It was for "Entire LOS" for all in the party with a min of 3 days.
• They then started tampering with it keeping the price about the same but changing recreation options. First removing fishing and substituting parasailing. Then they instituted limits of two 1 hour coupon's per day.
• Later they changed the plan entirely by making it essentially a prepaid cash card and also changed the name to Disney Dining Style where you paid $50 for adults and got credited for $55 & $22 for kids and got credited for $25. They further reduce the recreation options. At some point they reduced the min to 2 days after then changed to the prepaid dollar plan.
• They then quickly separated the recreation for a separate and additional charge calling it Disney's World of Recreation. Price $33/23 but went back to unlimited usage and included the fishing excursions.

The DDE was a 20% discount and could not be combined with this program even though it was simply a prepaid plan and thus the DDE was a better deal for many then as well. There were a couple of other minor variations but these are the main ones I recall or have info on. Others may remember other info or additional differences along the way. And like the current plan, each could be good for certain people and not for others depending on your circumstances.

We only got the FnF once, for 3 days. We did fishing excursions twice, trail rides and ate ourselves silly. By the end of 3 days, even the kids were saying no desert. I did keep up with the costs and it was quite a deal. We spent $363 I believe (don't think tax was extra). Had we paid cash, it would have been just under $1000. Had we not had the plan we would likely have spent about the same as the $363 but had less to show for it.

Hopefully this helps.

 

[Dean]

While we were not on the dining plan, we ate the Brown Derby about 4 weeks ago and saw nothing on the menu about dining plan resrictions. I read the whole menu too!

I haven't seen any restrictions personally other than the Signature restaurants. I see Cindy's is going on the signature list as of Feb. It appears Disney has continued to make minor changes in the restaurant list but at least they haven't been that negative overall, yet. BTW, many All Inclusive plans one can get traveling do have restrictions and surcharges for certain items and that's especially true for any you would get through a timeshare exchange.

 

[yitbos96bb]

The plan itself is very similar to the FnF card in it's earlier trappings, it remains to be seen if it will be better administrated. Given that they haven't been able to enforce the rules that kids eat from the kids menu, I'd say it's definitely going down the same path. Every single person is eligible for the DDE, if they chose to pursue it. As for being anti DP, it depends on how you look at it. Do I think it is a good deal for most people, absolutely not. But as I've posted a number of times, it's value is best for families with kids that can take advantage of the system, those that have a larger party than they have to pay for (multiple rooms) shorter stays and those that are heavy eaters. And if one plans out their meals to use it for the most expensive places, choices, it could work out as well. but since it's a use or lose situation, there is an inherent risk that includes people becoming ill, emergencies, unexpected departures, the tendency to eat less as you go along and the like. Thus my feeling that it should actually save you money OR give you a lot more for your money that you truly want to make it worthwhile. IMO, many people have conned themselves into thinking it's a good deal for them and I'll bet that a number will find it really isn't, we've already had posts to that affect on DIS. But anyone can certainly take what ever risks they want and throw away money if they chose.

All I want is for people to think about what they're doing and do what's truly best for them. Don't forget there are other discount options available besides DDE and DP to include other AP discounts, DVC discounts, Safari club and ?AAA for Rainforest. And there are many ways to lessen the cost though I draw the line at the one I saw on mousesavers where you get a double meat burger and an extra bun then make two burgers out of it. Reminds me of a relative who bought a drink at a fast food restaurant then stopped at each one along a trip and filled up her drink. And using this type of plan takes away much of one of the major savings benefits of DVC, eating out less because of the kitchen but everyone's habits are different in that area.

Now if the info is true that it will be available for stays even shorter than 3 days, that could add further to the value for some. Besides, don't look at this as a disagreement, it's really not. We're just batting around some of the issues involved. Since not all the details have been release, there are still some wait and see as to price and limitations.

Ok, thats cool. Just seemed to be getting a little adversarial, but I obviously misinterpretted the tone. My apologies.

Ok, Yes, every single person is technically eligible for DDE. BUT, for many, pursuing it is WAY more expensive and not worth it. For the non DVCer on a week vacation, the price of a MYW expire is $233 or so pp. The Cost for an AP is $399, plus $50 for the DDE. So even if one person gets the AP for the DDE you are talking about a $216 cost layout. So one must spend more than $241 in discounts to break even, and make sure the DP isn't a better deal for them as well.

I think you are nuts for saying the DP is only good for a small amount of people and think you are really misestimating the value of the plan here. Yes, there is a small inherent risk of emergency, but my bet is that the emergency issue will affect only a small number. As for people eating less as time goes by, no one I know has done that as they wanted their full value. I know we took FULL advantage of the plan. Yes, I know some won't eat full value and I have seen those posts on DIS as well. But again, that seems to me a small minority of people.

Personally, my next trip, I am going to get the DDE (since we are planning 2 8 day 2007 trips so it is a HECK of a lot cheaper than MYW unless they get rid of the DVC discounts) because while I won't do two TS every day, there are some days I will do them, and with alcohol and the planned V and A dinner it will pay for itself. But we were adding costs with what we eat, and the DP is a great value for us... so frankly we are going with both. The DP for our TS and CS per day and the DDE for alcohol, any extra TS and V and A.

I respect you want people to evaluate their best options. However, you don't seem to present the DP in an objective way at all. I think DDE and DP are both good things and have repeatedly stated that. SO compare the other discounts... however, most visitors staying on site aren't DVC (to their dismay) or AP so they get no discounts. I am not sure about the AAA or Safari club discounts.

And yes, I AGREE 100% that ordering the double burger with the bun seems to go a little overboard. And the drink thing. If you can't afford it, its cool, but if you are just being frugal... well there is a point where you can be a little TOO frugal.

Yes, the DVC has a kitchen, but frankly I bought one not for the kitchen but because over the long run it was cheaper way to do a hotel. Yes, I could just stay at the all star, but I wanted to get a nice place for a good price, hence my purchase. I know some people use the kitchen and save a lot of money, but my opinion... I'M ON VACATION and I don't want to cook. Cold Cereal maybe, but thats about it. Of course that's just me.

The Plan is listed on DVC now BTW, although they don't list pricing. It is basically the same description as on the Disney Website.

 

[yitbos96bb]

I haven't seen any restrictions personally other than the Signature restaurants. I see Cindy's is going on the signature list as of Feb. It appears Disney has continued to make minor changes in the restaurant list but at least they haven't been that negative overall, yet. BTW, many All Inclusive plans one can get traveling do have restrictions and surcharges for certain items and that's especially true for any you would get through a timeshare exchange.

Coral Reef is coming off, Cindy's is going on. I think that is the biggest change. I hope they do V and A sometime, but not holding my breath.

Her comment about restrictions was based on an earlier post where someone said she saw stickers about restrictions listed at the Brown Derby. I posted, asking when she went and if anyone had recently been that had seen this. I figured that she went whenthe plan first came out and they were still ironing out details.