DD wants a purity ring

[luvsJack]

Does your minister also force his viewpoint about not have affairs? I bet he does. Oh, and I bet he is one of those who tells people it is wrong to lie, too.

Yep.

 

[Wishing on a star]

There is a huge, HUGE, difference in presenting the Bible, and personal influence and being almost coerced. Which is a fact lost on many.

IMHO, this kind of influence, regarding sexuality, with children at 11 years old.
Wildly inappropriate.

I said in an earlier post... and I will repeat...
I don't think that the good lord, or the bible, says anything, anywhere, about anything like a 'purity ring'.

I have a huge problem with anybody encouraging any child at that age to make any such serious and public statement/show regarding sexuality.

Yep, you heard that right.

A purity ring on a child at that age, IMHO, is no better or worse than those four letter words displayed on the rear-end of shorts.

At some point, as an older teenager and/or young adult, kids are gonna make their own decisions and do what they are gonna do. Whether that be a purity ring and abstinance, or engaging in sexual activity.

But, IMHO, encouraging and using peer pressure coercian, used by adults, as a control tactic, regarding sexuality, on kids at 11 years old....

These are methods that cult type organizations use... and very successfully, too.

You know what they say about the road to hell....
Good intentions NEVER justify a wrong....

 

[ilovemk76]

So, did you correct "promoting" as well? As for "forcing", it is very apt for a so called teaching situation where only one viewpoint is tolerated.
As for the rest, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion as I am to mine, which is diametrically opposite.

ford family

ITA

If you were in the group that had this "talk" and then did not get a ring you would get "talked about".

Many are not telling that the groom removes the ring and then puts on a wedding band. It is a show for all and creepy too.

LuvsJack. Thank for the post. Everything else, oh well.

 

[luvsJack]

There is a huge, HUGE, difference in presenting the Bible, and personal influence and being almost coerced. Which is a fact lost on many.

IMHO, this kind of influence, with children at 11 years old.
Wildly inappropriate.

I said in an earlier post... and I will repeat...
I don't think that the good lord, or the bible, says anything, anywhere, about anything like a 'purity ring'.

I have a huge problem with anybody encouraging any child at that age, to make any such serious and public statement/show regarding sexuality.

Yep, you heard that right.

A purity ring on a child at that age, IMHO, is no better or worse than those four letter words displayed on the rear-end of shorts.

At some point, as an older teenager and/or young adult, kids are gonna make their own decisions and do what they are gonna do. Whether that be a purity ring and abstinance, or engaging in sexual activity.

But, IMHO, encouraging and peer pressure coercian, used by adults, as a control tactic, regarding sexuality, on kids at 11 years old....

I will agree that 11 may be a bit young to make that kind of commitment. Simply because they may be too young to fully understand it. But, I don't think its too young for the concept to be discussed with. Our church includes the 11 year olds with the children's group (where this would not be discussed) not the youth.

No the Bible doesn't discuss purity rings for heaven's sakes. I don't think the 11th commandment was "and you shall wear a silver ring until marriage" Don't take things so literally.

 

[ilovemk76]

Does your minister also force his viewpoint about not have affairs? I bet he does. Oh, and I bet he is one of those who tells people it is wrong to lie, too.

Adultry is a commandment. Premarital sex is not.

When you divorce and then have sex with another, DH or not, you are committing a sin. Should all divorcees have to put on "I will never have sex again" rings when they take off their wedding ring?

 

[Wishing on a star]

The concept being discussed, under appropriate circumstances...
And, the whole concept of kids, at 11, wanting a 'purity ring'
TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.

So, yes, that is why when I mentioned that there is no such thing as 'purity rings' in the Bible..
YES, you can bet your last dollar that I was being very, very, literal.

I think I have stated my thoughts very clearly.
And, you know what.... I don't think that they are going to change.

I am a conservative...
I am a Christian...

But, even so, I can see nothing appropriate... no justification... for this whole purity rings for young children concept.

No matter how 'noble' the intentions.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

Adultry is a commandment. Premarital sex is not.

When you divorce and then have sex with another, DH or not, you are committing a sin. Should all divorcees have to put on "I will never have sex again" rings when they take off their wedding ring?

So much I want to say but I am not allowed to due to the rules. Suffice to say that your comment is not biblically accurate.

 

[luvmy3]

Adultry is a commandment. Premarital sex is not.

When you divorce and then have sex with another, DH or not, you are committing a sin. Should all divorcees have to put on "I will never have sex again" rings when they take off their wedding ring?

Actually I was taught that adultery is sex with someone who is not your spouse, and that does include anyone before, or in the case of divorce, after you are married. YReligionMV.

MOds, I hope this allowed in the context of this thread.

 

[sandynd]

I have never heard of a purity ball.

There are many news articles, commentary, etc. available on google, and I've certainly seen mainstream media articles as well as religious and spiritual publications discussing the concept and video documentaries recording the actual dances and ceremonies. Here is one link as an example:

http://www.religiondispatches.org/a..._new_doc_explores_the_world_of_‘purity_balls’

The phrase "let go and let God", imho, was never meant to mean not to parent your children. Its more about letting God show you the path you need to take instead of worrying about problems in your life. God doesn't just throw the solution in front of you, He will guide you to it, you still have to do the work toward it.

Congratulations on being a mature, responsible adult who recognizes that adult life takes a lot of work, and you can't just rely on platitudes to get you through. You are one of those rare gems I mentioned earlier. Sadly, they are few and far between in my experience.

honor killings? this is where you come to?

Yes. There have been at least two cases in the last two years very close to where I live where a father or family deliberately murdered a young girl who rejected the family's beliefs about virginity. These people were not of the Christian persuasion, I believe. However, from the personal experience of being beaten in private and then publically humiliated before the Christian congregation that I grew up in when my parents suspected I might have been having sex, I can say that the kind of people who get lazy in their faith and rely on slogans, outward signs and maintain that their children are only extensions of themselves could very likely take things much too far when they feel like others are judging them based on their children's actions. Along with using whatever holy writings they subscribe to in order to justify their actions to their community. I don't think they probably started out with bad intentions, but I have seen many times, people who are unwell take on faith rituals that become completely blown out of the water and harmful. I worry about these purity pledges being used the same way.

The Bible and its teachings on sex and marriage have not changed. This isn't something new. The whole purity ring thing may be new but the message hasn't changed.

DD's father doesn't own her or anything about her and I have never heard of her getting any such silly message. She makes her own decisions as far as her faith is concerned. She is well aware of STD's and birth control and all the rest, but this was her decision at this time. I don't know of any parents that are assuming that because the church teaches them about abstinence that its the only lesson they need. Not saying there aren't any.

Are you suggesting that the church should not teach this because some parents don't have the gumption to follow through? Do you really think that a Christian church should ignore the Bible on this subject?

uuuummm... no, I don't recall advocating anything but that people grow more mature in their relationship with God instead of relying on rosy cultural memes to avoid the hard responsibilities they have.

And for the people you are working with, sounds like the problem is not in their faith but in entrusting it to any person. Your faith should only be entrusted to God.

Indeed. My faith (and everyone else's) is no one's business but mine and God's. I do object to "outward shows" such as rings, crosses, stars of david, bumper stickers etc. because I have seen more people rely on those objects as magical talismans than actually live the convictions behind it. IME, YMMV.

Your simpler life analogy may be true of some people. I don't know that life was so simple when I was a kid. I don't know why I would want to return to that. Life is what it is. You deal with it and you learn from it and you do a whole lot of praying and asking for guidance. But, to wish it away to something else, seems wrong to me.

Lots of people I know. Again, you are a cat of a different stripe, and I think it works better your way than theirs.

 

[ilovemk76]

Actually I was taught that adultery is sex with someone who is not your spouse, and that does include anyone before, or in the case of divorce, you are married. YReligionMV.

MOds, I hope this allowed in the context of this thread.

Adultry is sex with someone other than your spouse

Formication is when you are not married and have sex.

 

[luvmy3]

Adultry is sex with someone other than your spouse

Formication is when you are not married and have sex.

We are talking about in the context of The Commandments though. I should have said adultery "includes", not that "it is". Unfortunately it really cant be discussed further as per DIS rules.

 

[luvsJack]

The concept being discussed, under appropriate circumstances...
And, the whole concept of kids, at 11, wanting a 'purity ring'
TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.

So, yes, that is why when I mentioned that there is no such thing as 'purity rings' in the Bible..
YES, you can bet your last dollar that I was being very, very, literal.

I think I have stated my thoughts very clearly.
And, you know what.... I don't think that they are going to change.

I am a conservative...
I am a Christian...

But, even so, I can see nothing appropriate... no justification... for this whole purity rings for young children concept.

No matter how 'noble' the intentions.

Ok, but I wasn't trying to change your opinion. I just don't think anyone stated that there were purity rings mentioned in the Bible. The commitment/promise/concept behind the ring is what is in the Bible.

Are you saying that is your opinion for 11 year olds or for the concept in general? I don't know that it is appropriate for an 11 year old. I can't really say, I don't have one that is asking for it. I am going to guess that it would depend on the 11 year old and their understanding of the whole thing.

 

[Momvic5]

What now?

You know, the red hot love bead from Pandora for Pandora charm bracelets. It is the highlighted bead in one of Pandora's commercials. A friend of mine received one from her husband on Valentine's Day - her teens tease them about it every chance they get.

There is a huge, HUGE, difference in presenting the Bible, and personal influence and being almost coerced. Which is a fact lost on many.

IMHO, this kind of influence, regarding sexuality, with children at 11 years old.
Wildly inappropriate.

I said in an earlier post... and I will repeat...
I don't think that the good lord, or the bible, says anything, anywhere, about anything like a 'purity ring'.

I have a huge problem with anybody encouraging any child at that age to make any such serious and public statement/show regarding sexuality.

Yep, you heard that right.

A purity ring on a child at that age, IMHO, is no better or worse than those four letter words displayed on the rear-end of shorts.

At some point, as an older teenager and/or young adult, kids are gonna make their own decisions and do what they are gonna do. Whether that be a purity ring and abstinance, or engaging in sexual activity.

But, IMHO, encouraging and using peer pressure coercian, used by adults, as a control tactic, regarding sexuality, on kids at 11 years old....

These are methods that cult type organizations use... and very successfully, too.

You know what they say about the road to hell....
Good intentions NEVER justify a wrong....

I am confused about the bolded... is there a public statement? Does the child stand before the church while the ring is presented? Is there a certain ring they wear? I ask because in my knowledge of the purity ring, there is not a ceremony, a specific ring, or public announcement.....it is just a personal decision and the ring is a personal choice. The ring itself is chosen by the parents and their child. The James Avery ring that my dd wore as a small child for enjoyment is now being advertised as an option for purity rings becasue it is small and simple. What I am getting at is - unless the teen/child tells you a purity ring is being worn, how is it being stated to the public? I was not aware the decision was made public.

 

[luvsJack]

There are many news articles, commentary, etc. available on google, and I've certainly seen mainstream media articles as well as religious and spiritual publications discussing the concept and video documentaries recording the actual dances and ceremonies. Here is one link as an example:

http://www.religiondispatches.org/a..._new_doc_explores_the_world_of_‘purity_balls’



Congratulations on being a mature, responsible adult who recognizes that adult life takes a lot of work, and you can't just rely on platitudes to get you through. You are one of those rare gems I mentioned earlier. Sadly, they are few and far between in my experience.



Yes. There have been at least two cases in the last two years very close to where I live where a father or family deliberately murdered a young girl who rejected the family's beliefs about virginity. These people were not of the Christian persuasion, I believe. However, from the personal experience of being beaten in private and then publically humiliated before the Christian congregation that I grew up in when my parents suspected I might have been having sex, I can say that the kind of people who get lazy in their faith and rely on slogans, outward signs and maintain that their children are only extensions of themselves could very likely take things much too far when they feel like others are judging them based on their children's actions. Along with using whatever holy writings they subscribe to in order to justify their actions to their community. I don't think they probably started out with bad intentions, but I have seen many times, people who are unwell take on faith rituals that become completely blown out of the water and harmful. I worry about these purity pledges being used the same way.



uuuummm... no, I don't recall advocating anything but that people grow more mature in their relationship with God instead of relying on rosy cultural memes to avoid the hard responsibilities they have.



Indeed. My faith (and everyone else's) is no one's business but mine and God's. I do object to "outward shows" such as rings, crosses, stars of david, bumper stickers etc. because I have seen more people rely on those objects as magical talismans than actually live the convictions behind it. IME, YMMV.



Lots of people I know. Again, you are a cat of a different stripe, and I think it works better your way than theirs.

Thank you for your positive remarks. That's terrible about the two girls and your own story of being beaten!! I can't imagine being a part of a church where that was tolerated. Our pastor talks about people that have had a bad church experience--I am going to say you are a prime example of what he is talking about. I am so sorry this happened to you.

I did read the article about the purity ball. Odd. I had no idea such a thing existed. It sounded like the father in that family has very old fashioned views.

You are right, using whatever religious symbol like it in itself will protect you or keep you from harm is wrong.

 

[sandynd]

Thank you for your positive remarks. That's terrible about the two girls and your own story of being beaten!! I can't imagine being a part of a church where that was tolerated. Our pastor talks about people that have had a bad church experience--I am going to say you are a prime example of what he is talking about. I am so sorry this happened to you.

Thank you! It has left me with a deep distrust of anyone or any "system" that sets themselves up as "protector", "authority", "interpreter", "prophet", what have you. Which is why, I am sure, that the purity balls and the related pledges or vows make me want to scream - it hits almost every button And having been on the other end of where a fanatic could take it, it makes me very wary. I'm sure the other posters on here are all coming from their own histories, which makes it such an interesting thread to go through and see all the different viewpoints!

 

[luvmy3]

You know, the red hot love bead from Pandora for Pandora charm bracelets. It is the highlighted bead in one of Pandora's commercials. A friend of mine received one from her husband on Valentine's Day - her teens tease them about it every chance they get.



I am confused about the bolded... is there a public statement? Does the child stand before the church while the ring is presented? Is there a certain ring they wear? I ask because in my knowledge of the purity ring, there is not a ceremony, a specific ring, or public announcement.....it is just a personal decision and the ring is a personal choice. The ring itself is chosen by the parents and their child. The James Avery ring that my dd wore as a small child for enjoyment is now being advertised as an option for purity rings becasue it is small and simple. What I am getting at is - unless the teen/child tells you a purity ring is being worn, how is it being stated to the public? I was not aware the decision was made public.

http://secure.jamesavery.com/jewelry/search/product/R-1347/"True-Love-Waits"-Ring/

Here is an example of a "public" purity ring from James Avery. Even the description mentions it being part of an international campaign promoting abstinence. If its not meant to be public, just who is the campaign for

I realize your dd, and other people may be wearing different rings, however this particular one appears to be for those who do want a public display of their choice.

 

[Granny square]

Those rings are much more out there than what ive seen. Usually I just notice plain bands on the teens. While they may be a part of an international campaign choosing to wear one doesn't mean that the person wearing it is interested in anything but their views. I will wear a couple of pieces of 12 step jewelry because they mean something to me. I don't give a rat's end about anything but my own personal comfort or beliefs.

 

[ckay87]

So how does this work.... as a little girl, I go through this process, and with the knowledge and support of my parents and the church, I begin to wear this ring. Then as an 18 or 19 year old woman, a WORLD away from that little girl, I fall in love and then decide that the decision I made as (essentially) a baby was wrong for me. When I go ahead and have premarital sexual relations, do I continue wearing the ring like a hypocrite or do I take it off for my parents and everyone at church to notice? Because it's not unheard of at all for a young adult to doubt, question, and take action against the teachings of their religion at a certain age.

 

[Colleen27]

The Op wasn't aware doesn't mean the other parents weren't. i know ahead of time what every youth meeting dd goes to is about. Teaching is not promoting or forcing or
influencing ; its teaching. thats what youth groups do they teach.

As for your comments about boys vs girls; you are making an assumption on something that you know nothing about.

Eh, I know a lot of people in the churches that encourage abstinence and the boys are often given rings at 13ish with the same intent. I don't know how youth gatherings Colleen goes to but I've never seen or heard teens encouraged to recruit, etc. seems like broad brush generalizations to me.

That is a failure of the youth pastor/minister/church to address this issue appropriately. A church should never engage in discussion of sex without first making sure the parents know. Parents should be active in this process. In fact, we have discussions among and with the parents on the same issues as with the kids.

This is the problem with discussing these sorts of issues. If my experience isn't what you've seen, I'm making assumptions about something I know nothing about (actually, I'm just talking about what I've seen IRL, not what I've read online or seen on TV). If a church or pastor is doing something contrary to your experience, they're doing it wrong. When the stats reflect increased risks for kids who take purity vows, it is because the parents are doing something wrong. In other words, you "own" the successes and the good intentions but disavow all of the drawbacks.

I form my opinions based on my own experiences. Around here, girls wear purity rings, not boys, not even when they're from the same family or congregation. Some are just jewelry while some have the message engraved on the outside of the band. Around here, church youth groups do involve recruiting in a low-pressure sense - kids are encouraged to bring friends, a couple of the bigger churches out in the country have a bus that picks kids up in town to go to the group, they serve pizza and host dances and other teen-friendly events that are open to the public and advertised via flyers around the community. And there is very little parental involvement in these youth groups; unless the parents belong to the church hosting the group they most likely wouldn't know the specific content/topic/activity of any given meeting until after the fact.

While I agree with the spirit of these comments, I'm not sure it's lazy parenting so much as maybe "Disneyfied" parenting What I mean is, the whole soft-focus, rose-coloured view that "my child believes what I do, and has the same strength of will I have, because, look! They're willing to publicly show their commitment by wearing a ring. So we don't have to talk about the messy stuff until the eve of their wedding, when we will have a precious Hallmark parent-child-on-the-cusp-of-embarking-on-their-adult-life discussion about how fulfilling married sex is."

For many of the very religious people I've met, they yearn for a "simpler" time when life wasn't so messy, and rely on the teachings (and this certainly doesn't apply only to Christianism) of their childhood to comfort themselves when life gets complicated. It's a rare gem of a person who actually approaches, tests and confirms their beliefs in a mature and realistic way, because that is hard, hard, hard, often with very little comfort involved. I am currently helping two family friends in their late life who have recently come to realize that they were approaching their spirituality in a very child-like way, which allowed them to be used and led into some damaging practices. They're having such a crisis because they entrusted their faith to very fallible humans and got burned, instead of approaching their God on a more mature level as they lived their lives. I wouldn't ever call them lazy - just perhaps a little naive. And I wonder if many parents who rely on abstinence-only education, virginity pledges, purity balls and rings, etc. are approaching things in the same way. To me, it seems like a lack of critical thinking skills in one area of their lives, which they may not even recognize because it fills a deep need for comfort and nurturing. I feel for them and their children - and understand the desire to "let go and let God" instead of actively working it. But I think we have to "put away childish things" including our desire to just be taken care of, and face God as an adult, as we do our physical parents. It's our responsibility to help our kids do that too.

 

[Momvic5]

http://secure.jamesavery.com/jewelry/search/product/R-1347/"True-Love-Waits"-Ring/

Here is an example of a "public" purity ring from James Avery. Even the description mentions it being part of an international campaign promoting abstinence. If its not meant to be public, just who is the campaign for

I realize your dd, and other people may be wearing different rings, however this particular one appears to be for those who do want a public display of their choice.

Yes, but anyone can wear that ring. You don't have to make a personal commitment towards the campaign to purchase it and wear it. James Avery is smart and knows there is a market for "statement" jewelry.

My teens do not wear purity rings. Like I stated in an earlier post, I don't even know a teen who wears one, but I know many teens who wear rings.....I am clueless about the meanings and intentions behind their rings unless they share it with me - that is why I was confused about the public statement of purity rings.