DCL/Disney Business model change setup for long term failure?

[JW9DVC]

This is something I have been thinking for awhile, but didn't quite know how to articulate it.

Originally it seemed like DCL/Disney was set at a price point that was just above average, but still attainable by the masses. Their marketing plan seemed to be bring in a family, hook the parents and kids on the product. Those parents will then become grandparents and bring the grandkids to the parks and ships. Those kids would become parents themselves and bring their kids to the parks and ships. This cycle has repeated itself for years. Essentially they had an incredible business blueprint for building a brand.

With the increase on the cruise prices and from what I hear the park prices (only been once, cruising is in our bones). I have seen family and people at work either decide to do other vacations or cut way back on their Disney related activities.

Is Disney setting themselves up to break this cycle by pricing some/many families out? Which may mean that in the future they could see declining attendance and brand awareness?

Also if they price into the luxury market they may have to up their game some to meet a different customer bases expectations. I have read some of the etiquette threads on CC, I would not do well in that atmosphere lol.

I get that Disney is trying to maximize profit, and as a company they can do whatever they want. Sometimes though maximizing short term profit sets you up for long term losses. Will be interesting to see which way Disney goes.

Just some random thoughts on an early Friday night

I don't see it as long term losses. More like long term gains. Disney isn't a new start up company. My stocks are doing well and for those that can't afford. Well. They have other choices.

JW

 

[_auroraborealis_]

A lot of things with premium price do not deliver premium product. You pay for label.

 

[LAX]

A lot of things with premium price do not deliver premium product. You pay for label.

That's true for many products. As far as a DCL cruise is concerned, I can't be the judge as I haven't been on one. However, I have read/heard DCL winning accolades for its offerings. Are those reviews/evaluations biased? How does DCL charge a premium price and not deliver a premium product (this is not directed at you _auroraborealis_)?

LAX

 

[mevelandry]

That's true for many products. As far as a DCL cruise is concerned, I can't be the judge as I haven't been on one. However, I have read/heard DCL winning accolades for its offerings. Are those reviews/evaluations biased? How does DCL charge a premium price and not deliver a premium product (this is not directed at you _auroraborealis_)?

LAX

About accolades: It really depends on who voted and the criterias. When I read that the Dream won for best restaurants quoting someone saying that "Animator's Palate was the best restaurant because the waiter was nice to our little girl"... I'm sorry but... No. I don't trust those "awards". Like the movies, I would have more trust if the votes are coming from professionals from the industry.

 

[LAX]

About accolades: It really depends on who voted and the criterias. When I read that the Dream won for best restaurants quoting someone saying that "Animator's Palate was the best restaurant because the waiter was nice to our little girl"... I'm sorry but... No. I don't trust those "awards". Like the movies, I would have more trust if the votes are coming from professionals from the industry.

Yes. I absolutely agree that reviews, even from so called "professionals" can be biased. Plus, what's good to you may not be the case for me. Hence, I don't understand why people make blanket statements that DCL is not providing a "good value" or delivering a "premium" experience for what it charges? I understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but a 3 star product to some may be a 5 star product to others if there isn't a trustworthy industry measuring stick.

LAX

 

[Sanchez]

That's true for many products. As far as a DCL cruise is concerned, I can't be the judge as I haven't been on one. However, I have read/heard DCL winning accolades for its offerings. Are those reviews/evaluations biased? How does DCL charge a premium price and not deliver a premium product (this is not directed at you _auroraborealis_)?

LAX

I don't think that DCL is marketing itself as an upscale line with a four or five star product. The premium is for the Disney experience and many people find value in that.

That experience is not to be confused with high quality food and service. DCL is a mass market cruise line and not a premium cruise line. I have found other mass market ships with better food, better entertainment, and equivalent to better service. What they don't have is the Disney theme and many find that more important than other factors.

Far too often people confuse these things. The assumption is that the significant price difference is representative of "class." DCL does not target the wine and cheese crowd but more the chicken nugget and grilled cheese crowd.

While I shouldn't have to say this, all of this is fine. It really depends what you want in a cruise.

Let's consider MDR service as an example. DCL servers may very well perform magic tricks for children and cut their meat. On Regal Princess our server was much more understated, professional and knowledgeable. The former is fine for a family, but probably not for adults who are expecting detailed knowledge of the menu and appropriate wine pairings. Each can score high ratings, but it certainly depends on needs and experience of the passenger.

If your normal night out is Applebees you will find Disney MDR food to be quite good. If you frequent higher quality restaurants you will likely be disappointed.

 

[mevelandry]

Yes. I absolutely agree that reviews, even from so called "professionals" can be biased. Plus, what's good to you may not be the case for me. Hence, I don't understand why people make blanket statements that DCL is not providing a "good value" or delivering a "premium" experience for what it charges? I understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but a 3 star product to some may be a 5 star product to others if there isn't a trustworthy industry measuring stick.

LAX

I just think some people here are annoyed (I have to admit that I am part of them) by the fact that some people declare that DCL is the absolute best cruise line and all other cruise line sucks when they have never tried another cruise line. I mean it's one thing to affirm satisfaction regarding a product and another to state that it's the absolute best like it's a fact (especially when it's the only one you've known)...

Also, one question hasn't been answered enough in this thread: how much are you willing to pay for a DCL cruise (what would be the maximal amount)?

Personally, 800$/pp for a 3 nights cruise in an inside room is what we paid for our upcoming cruise and in my eyes, I overpaid... And I'm a die hard Disney fan but I won't pay that kind of prices in the future. I feel abused. And the possibility of going once every two years instead of every year does not apply: I find the price outrageous and I refuse to pay that amount for a cruise from now on.

So... What is the maximum you'd be willing to pay?

 

[tink1970]

"So... What is the maximum you'd be willing to pay?"

I'll bite. I had to think about our most expensive cruises and what my current line in the sand is. I'd say $1K/pp/night with the caveat that we still sail the most expensive times in concierge. This is not out of the realm of what other cruise lines in a slightly different market charge (I'm currently looking at European cruises for July 2018). DH, who foots the bill, prefers concierge, and occasionally we take DD (still in high school) or have to work around DH's schedule so end up cruising in the high season. Our NYE cruise 2016 was a family event, and for our suite we did pay 1000/pp/night (fortunately my brother and his family didn't mind an inside cabin so that was significantly less!). I know that sounds high but it does help to have a maximum and stick to it. Looking at Seabourn, RegentSevenSeas, Oceania and SilverSea we'll pay close to those prices albeit for a different product (before the apples to oranges comparison is mentioned). To me, the goal for any cruise is an enjoyable, relaxing cruise with few worries. So that's my max.

 

[cruiser21]

I just think some people here are annoyed (I have to admit that I am part of them) by the fact that some people declare that DCL is the absolute best cruise line and all other cruise line sucks when they have never tried another cruise line. I mean it's one thing to affirm satisfaction regarding a product and another to state that it's the absolute best like it's a fact (especially when it's the only one you've known)...

Also, one question hasn't been answered enough in this thread: how much are you willing to pay for a DCL cruise (what would be the maximal amount)?

Personally, 800$/pp for a 3 nights cruise in an inside room is what we paid for our upcoming cruise and in my eyes, I overpaid... And I'm a die hard Disney fan but I won't pay that kind of prices in the future. I feel abused. And the possibility of going once every two years instead of every year does not apply: I find the price outrageous and I refuse to pay that amount for a cruise from now on.

So... What is the maximum you'd be willing to pay?

I will come back and answer your question. 800pp is a little over 250 per day per person. My upcoming 4 day cruise I'm paying 250.00 pp per night(inside). I believe that's probably the most I've paid for a cruise per person per night. Our last 7 day cruise on the Wonder in Dec out of Galveston I paid 125.00 per night pp for 4 people ocean view. Our upcoming cruise on the Vista is a little less then that per night(ocean view). Of course these are all offseason cruises. I stay away from DCL during school breaks. I think 250pp night pp would probably be my max for 2 people. I'd probably lower that to 200.00 per night for 4.

Just wanted to add. It also depends on the itinerary. I'm willing to pay more for a really great itinerary in Europe. My max for the Caribbean is pretty low. Probably lower then what I stated above.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I just think some people here are annoyed (I have to admit that I am part of them) by the fact that some people declare that DCL is the absolute best cruise line and all other cruise line sucks when they have never tried another cruise line. I mean it's one thing to affirm satisfaction regarding a product and another to state that it's the absolute best like it's a fact (especially when it's the only one you've known)...

Exactly -- I think some people get very defensive when Disney isn't someone else's Alpha and Omega, world without end. It's okay if it's theirs, but it's not someone else's flaw if if they feel otherwise.

I think some of the DCL pricing is also possible to absorb in the sense that if you compare it to staying at WDW, with a dining plan and tickets over X nights, the costing is not significantly different once you hit a certain resort level.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

The max we have paid per person per night is $325. That is base fare no gratuities. But we shoot for less than $100 per person per night. Of course that doesn't happen on dcl. It is funny but the more money we make, the cheaper we get. When we had less money we used to feel more comfortable paying towards $300, but now that we have more money, not so much. Dcl doesn't draw us in so much anymore. Just doesn't have the allure it once did....

 

[Dug720]

I do think it goes both ways though. Those of us who do love DCL and will continue to cruise them are basically called stupid for doing so on threads like these.

So yeah. We might get defensive.

 

[mevelandry]

Exactly -- I think some people get very defensive when Disney isn't someone else's Alpha and Omega, world without end. It's okay if it's theirs, but it's not someone else's flaw if if they feel otherwise.

I think some of the DCL pricing is also possible to absorb in the sense that if you compare it to staying at WDW, with a dining plan and tickets over X nights, the costing is not significantly different once you hit a certain resort level.

I agree.

 

[mevelandry]

The max we have paid per person per night is $325. That is base fare no gratuities. But we shoot for less than $100 per person per night. Of course that doesn't happen on dcl. It is funny but the more money we make, the cheaper we get. When we had less money we used to feel more comfortable paying towards $300, but now that we have more money, not so much. Dcl doesn't draw us in so much anymore. Just doesn't have the allure it once did....

325$/pp per night? Ouch! Which ship? Where did you go?

Like you, we are not as comfortable paying high rates as we used to be even though our salaries are slightly better than they used to be. I have to admit that our Carnival Victory cruise has been the catalyst. Seeing all that we got for a fraction of the price of DCL had a huge impact on our vacation budget.

I just noticed that a 7 days cruise on the Oasis of the Seas --I recently viewed vlogs about it and I am obsessed with it-- would have cost us the same price as our upcoming 3 nights on the Disney Wonder and to be honest, I'm getting a little pissed! *Breathe, Marie. Breathe...*

 

[mevelandry]

I do think it goes both ways though. Those of us who do love DCL and will continue to cruise them are basically called stupid for doing so on threads like these.

So yeah. We might get defensive.

Best defense that nobody can argue (or insult you about): "I want the mouse."

We can argue for a long time about financial value, rates, service, staff, cleanliness, food, etc... But you cannot get the mouse anywhere else than on DCL.

And it's okay to want the mouse.

 

[Dug720]

Best defense that nobody can argue (or insult you about): "I want the mouse."

We can argue for a long time about value, rates, service, staff, cleanliness, food, etc... But you cannot get the mouse anywhere else than on DCL.

And it's okay to want the mouse.

What we each value isn't really up for argument either. Values are personal.

 

[darnheather]

As a 1A 2K family I have yet to price a cruise on another line that was significantly less than DCL. I find the fees on other lines add up fast: no discount for third person, sodas are per day plus a fee. Add to that the rooms are generally smaller and less well laid out, the kids clubs cost, are time limited, or non-existent, there is smoking onboard, there are fewer family friendly entertainment options, it just doesn't make sense for m family to try a different line. We'll probably do two more cruises before the kids are in college and then I'll return to traveling via backpack the way I did pre-kids. Senior hostels anyone?

 

[mevelandry]

As a 1A 2K family I have yet to price a cruise on another line that was significantly less than DCL. I find the fees on other lines add up fast: no discount for third person, sodas are per day plus a fee. Add to that the rooms are generally smaller and less well laid out, the kids clubs cost, are time limited, or non-existent, there is smoking onboard, there are fewer family friendly entertainment options, it just doesn't make sense for m family to try a different line. We'll probably do two more cruises before the kids are in college and then I'll return to traveling via backpack the way I did pre-kids. Senior hostels anyone?

Do you register for newsletters? I currently receive newsletters from Princess, Norwegian, Carnival and Royal Caribbean and I see the "3rd and 4th person sail free" promotion all the time.

That being said, I agree that if you are looking for a cruise line that doesn't allow smoking inside at all, I think most cruise lines are not there yet (But I'm sure it's coming)... I have not been incommodated by the smoking in the Casino on the Carnival Victory, though.

As for sodas... We're trying to stop. They are so bad for our health that I am shocked that DCL offers them for free... I could do without it.

 

[cruiser21]

I do think it goes both ways though. Those of us who do love DCL and will continue to cruise them are basically called stupid for doing so on threads like these.

So yeah. We might get defensive.

No one has ever called you stupid or implied that. No one has criticized you for sailing DCL. Not anywhere in this thread has that been said or implied. On a message board you have to go by what people type not by what you think they might be thinking. There is no way to interpret tone or thoughts on message board.

 

[mevelandry]

What we each value isn't really up for argument either. Values are personal.

I meant financial value (not emotional value, which is not quantifiable).