DCL, be ware when booking HA verandah stateroom!

[goofieslonglostsis]

Just a quick topic I'll cross reference both on disABILITIES and the DCL board. Mods if that is not allowed; SORRY!

For those booked in a HA verandah stateroom with DCL or thinking about it; be ware!! I'm at the Magic as we speak, booked into a cat. 6 accessible stateroom. And to our big shock the so called accessible stateroom is not all that accessible.

They put in an automatic door opener for the door from hallway to stateroom. Great!! Yet, for those same folks using that stateroom, they put in REGULAR doors to the verandah. Which results in 2 major problem for those with disabilities;

- the lock of the door is almost totally at the top of the door.
- it's a sliding door that requires somebody to have (close to) perfect upperbody strength to be able to open it up. To make things worse, the handle to operate this door is around shoulder height when sitting in a wheelchair, which makes it even heavier to make that sliding move.

So basically, one needs perfect upperbody strength and/or has to be travelling with a abled bodie person to be able to get out to the verandah.


I'm on this cruise with a friend that, like me, uses a wheelchair and does not have perfect upperbody strength. DCL knew about this upfront, thanks to the medical forms. Yet, they simply told me we would be able to venture out on the verandah on our own. NO WAY we can open or close the door. Big fat major disappointment if you know you've got one of the biggest verandahs on the ship behind that closed door.

Took me the first 24 hours of a lot of calling, talking and frustration for somebody would even take us serious. Took them 3 days before they would admit there is nothing that can be done during our cruise and this is what it is. They offered to open and close the door for us as many times as we want, but if you ask me that is no way near a 'solution'. These slidingdoors are placed in ALL accessible staterooms with a verandah, same doors as the regular staterooms have.

So basically, we changed our reservation from a cat. 11 to a cat 6 for the balcony. Paid about $1500,- more only to find out we can not use the verandah. I can not even tell you all how mad I am that this is happening, especially on DCL. We will be filing a claim when we get back, but nobody can guarantee me we'll get the price difference back.

One of the managers here has sent a request to mainland asking to inform all guests booked into or are going to book an accessible stateroom to inform them about this situation, so they can make an informed decision to run the risk of not being able to open the door themselves. But then again, who knows if and when that'll be done? So those considering these type of rooms; be warned!!!

 

[Schmeck]

It's a tricky situation on a ship - especially one designed for families (with small children) The lock is up high so that a toddler can't unlock it in the middle of the night, get out on the veranda, fall overboard, and drown. Once a castmember has unlocked it for you, that should be all set for the rest of your trip though, right?

Opening and closing the sliding door is a bit trickier - it has to be very airtight on a ship, or in a bad storm you'd get too much water coming in above the water line, risking a capsize. Of course they could put in doors that open out, but then you lose a lot of verandah space, and space is premium on a ship.

A simple solution for opening the sliding door would be to put a bar down lower as well, although that might make it too easy for a small child to open as well.

 

[bookwormde]

It sounds like DCL needs to put a keypad controlled electric operator on the door to make the room fully compliant.

bookwormde

 

[SKWDW]

That's unfortunate, thanks for the warning.

Are DCL ships that depart from the US required to meet the ADA standards? My guess is they don't have to since they're probably "flagged" in another country like most cruise ships.

At the very least, you should get a refund for the non-accessible verandah. I recommend a follow-up letter or two to DCL/Disney corporate.

Hope you enjoyed to other aspects of your cruise.

 

[PrincessTrisha]

Thanks for the information.

I am looking at booking a cruise for late next year with my mom (who is in a wheelchair). I was debating between a category 11 or 5 or 6 (basically choice between balcony or no balcony).

My Dad and I would be there to open the door but is it easy to roll out to the balcony? I always have a concern that there will be a little ledge or bump.

 

[videogal1]

That's unfortunate, thanks for the warning.

Are DCL ships that depart from the US required to meet the ADA standards? My guess is they don't have to since they're probably "flagged" in another country like most cruise ships.

At the very least, you should get a refund for the non-accessible verandah. I recommend a follow-up letter or two to DCL/Disney corporate.

Hope you enjoyed to other aspects of your cruise.

What flag the ship flies is not what determines whether it is subject to the ADA.
After Norwegian Cruise lines lost their accessibility-based case the cruise industry was on notice to get it right. There is a big loophole, though...Cost of fixing a perceived access problem. The old ships get to stay inaccessible as far as they are currently but new ships must comply. Now that should be interesting. If you only found the verandah doors to be an access issue aboard DCL ships you are fortunate, indeed.

 

[dclfun]

This is the same on every cruise line- there are no verandah's with automatic doors or easy access outside. You will be told to travel with an able bodied person- at least DCL doesn't make that a requirement and leaves it up to the guests' discretion. I was almost not allowed to even book a cruise on Princess without another guest in my stateroom as they were considering whether or not it would be safe for me to sail solo ( and I'm assuming, if I would be a liability or "trouble" to them). Their accessible verandah's are so small also that I couldn't really use it- I could go straight forward and be about halfway in the stateroom and halfway out, but that's another story. No cruise line has to provide any kind of assistance either from their crew ( again, if you choose to travel independently with a disability, you are on your own and it's not recommended that you do so )- so if they are offering to open/close the verandah for you, use the service! When I've sailed before in those staterooms and needed the door opened for my SD to relieve herself I always got the stateroom host to come down and help me. He was almost always in the area and glad to help, or I could call GS and they sent someone up, same as when I booked an inside stateroom and needed help opening the door out onto Deck 7 aft where they put her break station. ( that door is VERY heavy and impossible to be opened independently unless you're Hercules ). I don't think information about upper body strength or mobility can be gleaned from their medical form so I would doubt they would be aware that you couldn't open the sliding door. Just saying you are using a power w/c, for instance really could mean differing levels of abilities and a diagnosis, if you chose to share it, won't tell them either. I know the upper latch, once undone, will stay open for the length of the cruise, but there's no way around the sliding door. I agree that it's very difficult to open and I can't do it either. How did you manage the guest room doors at AKL? I find those impossible to open independently also. Sometimes solo travel is really tough anywhere. Fortunately at WDW and on DCL I've always found CM's willing to help open doors, place my luggage where it can be reached, etc. but if they hadn't, I'd have really been stuck, literally. I'm sorry you're having a tough time, but truthfully I don't believe you deserve a refund- they've already offered to do more for you than they have to by sending someone to your stateroom "on demand" to help with the door and there are other benefits to having a verandah stateroom vs. an inside room. It's larger and has "daylight" for instance. I hope everything else has gone more smoothly and that there weren't other unexpected challenges. I'm really sorry you were disappointed. You are lucky you're on DCL and not another cruise line as from my experience you would likely have been told "tough..you should have travelled with someone to help you" and no one would have offered to do anything for you. Sad but true.---Kathy

 

[Schmeck]

One reason that the cruise ships would like the disabled to have an "abled" person (I really dislike these terms, BTW!) is for evacuation situations - getting the lifejacket on, getting to the lifeboat, getting in the lifeboat, etc. Otherwise, you risk being left in your stateroom in a dangerous situation.

While being on a cruise seems like it should be all about relaxing, etc, there are some significant risk factors from being out at sea that need to be addressed at all times.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

Kathy, my beef with DCL is that I know for a fact that there are safe systems out there that can be operated by just about any person with any kind of disability. I happen to reside in a fishing/sailing community and one of the shipowners is paralysed from the neck down, yet still can do all on the ship. Yep, all. There are multiple safe (kidsproof) sliding doors on their 2 ships that are very easily operated.

While DCL might not be allowed to ask for certain info on the med form, the COULD offer the info about the heavy door without asking the client anything. Simply inform them about this, done. In my case; I gave DCL pretty much a full medical run down. Was very specific about this specific subject (me not being able to open heavier doors) and if that would be a problem around the ship. Was told some doors out to the public decks might be. but that would be it. No problem getting out on the verandah. And that totally, well, made me mad beyond believe.

Doors at AKL; had maintanence come down and they disabled the doorshutter within about 15 minutes after the call was made. Always had that done, never a problem. Sometimes they'll have the fire department involved because of safety, but that's about it.


Smeck; I find it unrealistic to call something an accessible stateroom when you have to get help to use the stateroom. Even if it is 'just' for a lock. To me, that is the same as not putting in a roll in shower, because hey! A staff member can lift me in and out of the shower, so why invest in extra roomspace and ajustments? As said previously, there are safe systems out there for both those with a disability and kid safety.

I agree with you about the 'what if the ship does a titanic impression', but that is an informed choice you make when deciding to travel this way. As it is with all things you do in live, flying, being at home alone, even walking down the road. If we would've known about the door upfront, we would've been able to make an informed decision. That was not the case, which ended up with us spending money we now seriously regret spending.


Thrisha, you'll need to get over a small 'speedbump' when going from inside to outside. Outside to inside is going over a small bump. Pretty doable. I can do it in my manual chair. For comparison; If I run around the room in that chair for like 20 minutes I'm starting to feel loss of power. It's the same for the bathroom, also a small upgoing ramp-thingie. If I don't forget, I'll take a pic of the both and post them on the DIS after returning.

 

[Schmeck]

I like bookwormde's suggestion for a keypad to overcome the need to unlock the sliding door, as long as it needs enough keys pressed that a toddler playing with it can't just guess the code and get it open. Perhaps a removable handle on the door would work too? Don't they have suction cup ones, I think I saw them on tv?

Yes, if they told you it was accessible to the verandah, and it wasn't, then yes, I'd be frustrated too. They did offer assistance though, which I would have accepted. It could have been that the door was usually easy to open and the salt water exposure had eroded it a bit, and it needs to be replaced. Or maybe a little WD40 would have done the trick. That's the stuff the booking agent wouldn't have any control over, but the CMs on board should have been able to fix.

Any idea if it was just your sliding door, or were all the verandah doors that same level of traction? Sliding doors do need a bit of traction so they don't rattle all the time, of course, or slide open accidently when on open ocean, but they shouldn't be so hard to open that you have to use two hands to open them.

And out of curiosity - how does the shipowner do stuff, paralyzed from the neck down - open doors with his teeth? How does he get around on the ship?

 

[dclfun]

I do wish someone had mentioned the sliding doors to you, but truthfully there are so many specifics that aren't usually covered unless those details are discussed. Of course you *can* get out on the verandah ( if you asked, "can I get out on the verandah").meaning yes, your chair can access it as there is only a slight lip and adequate space. Whether or not you can handle that sliding door isn't something that is the same for everyone in a w/c ( as you have found out) vs. accessing the verandah, although it is a part of the process. I would imagine there could be people who are ambulatory with aids who couldn't step over that lip, or chairs that are so low to the ground that they could get stuck, but for the most part the verandah itself is accessible. Other details that can make a huge difference but aren't often considered include the fact that some people can only transfer from left to right or vice versa and the accessible staterooms are mirror images of each other. This becomes very important in the bathroom, but often disabled guests don't think about those kinds of specifics and never mention that they need one side or the other. Another issue is that only four staterooms have the pushplate door openers and if you cannot independently open the stateroom door, that is quite handy, and often necessary. If you must have a tub, only two of the accessible staterooms also have tubs with rails in addition to the roll in showers. I know at the resorts I now ask *extremely* detailed questions and request a particular layout in certain resort rooms as those rooms also have mirror images and only one way works for me. It's much easier in a resort though to find another room if you end up with one that isn't satisfactory. Once you're on the ship, you are often having to deal with what you chose even if you didn't know *what* to choose. It sounds like you did as much research as you could and I'm glad you brought this up. If anyone else who is disabled is choosing to cruise ( on any cruise line), these are issues you might not have thought of beforehand and of course I only added a few examples. I'll never forget being in line checking in once behind a gentleman in a chair similar to mine who hadn't even reserved an accessible room. When questioned, he said he thought all the doors would be wide enough. He had never sailed before, never even thought about it! Anyway, do follow up with your letter when you get home- it's always a good idea to pass along both disappointments and suggestions although I'm really sorry you had the disappointment to start with.---Kathy

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

They did offer assistance though, which I would have accepted.

Guess that's where we differ.

It could have been that the door was usually easy to open and the salt water exposure had eroded it a bit, and it needs to be replaced. Or maybe a little WD40 would have done the trick. That's the stuff the booking agent wouldn't have any control over, but the CMs on board should have been able to fix.

We wish. They tried everything on day 2, including different types of grease, putting in new rollers etc. to make sure it isn't anything they could fix. Turned out it simply was the door in itself.

Any idea if it was just your sliding door, or were all the verandah doors that same level of traction?

If we can take one of the GR managers word for it, it is the same for all of the accessible staterooms with a verandah. All the same types of doors, same type of problem. She actually had a look at it, to see if perhaps replacing us would've been an option. Our DIS-group also had a cabin tour, which included some HA cabins with verandah. Had a sneaky try (those doors were already open), and no way I could've closed them either.

And out of curiosity - how does the shipowner do stuff, paralyzed from the neck down - open doors with his teeth? How does he get around on the ship?

There are systems out there that more or less work the same as automatic door openers for regular doors, except opening a sliding door. Of course, he needs a bit of extra things set in place for that to work. So they put in a piece of technology that he can operate the door opener by simply pointing a laser (which can be operated via mouth/head piece) at the right spot. Was amazed the first time I had a look at that one!

I do wish someone had mentioned the sliding doors to you, but truthfully there are so many specifics that aren't usually covered unless those details are discussed.

And there you have it; this specific subject was discussed and something was promised that could not be delivered. A sale was made which was for a large part based on that specific info; you will be able to get in and out onto the verandah unassisted.

meaning yes, your chair can access it as there is only a slight lip and adequate space. Whether or not you can handle that sliding door isn't something that is the same for everyone in a w/c ( as you have found out) vs. accessing the verandah, although it is a part of the process.

Might be me, might be the jetlag, but didn't I post earlier on, that I very clearly discussed with DCL that I wanted to be able to get out there unassisted and if the door in itself would be a problem in operating it unassisted? Anyhow, that had been done right into the details. And I was promised that yes I would be able to open and close the door myself. At that point, DCL makes a promiss to deliver and they did not.

To be honest, I'm starting to -again- get the feeling you are a bit downplaying it all. As if it is MY fault this happened. I discussed our needs to the small details with DCL. Including operating public and private stateroom doors. I was given false information. Heck, besides all of that, the respons of the CM's onboard was a big sign IMHO. I had multiple managers approaching me during the cruise, asking me if I was miss GLLS and then going on this whole talk about how ashamed they were about the situation and how this should've never been possible to happen with an accessible stateroom to begin with.

This isn't just a 'oh, things happen' when one travels with a disability. I've seen a lot of them, always go and then . This was a basic fault with the stateroom. An accessible stateroom should help out the 'basic' person needing such a stateroom to function unassisted. When selling these cabins with a verandah, one should be able to make use of a verandah unassisted. It is not a 'perk', it is something these people pay big bucks for. Especially when discussing this in details, a cruiseline should give honest information about what is and what is not being offered. If DCL would've simply said "look miss GLLS, the door is very heavy to operate, we can not promiss you can get out there unassisted", I would've just shrugged it off. But I was given misinformation and based on that paid a lot more money.

 

[Mrsjvb]

I see where you are coming from.. most of the week my husband had to open our verandah door( Cat 7) as I too was unable to operate that funky handle or muster the strength to move that sliding glass door... but I must agree with much of what is being said here..

just because you told the CM you needed to be able to get in and out unassisted does NOT MEAN that they had a clue in hell as to what your specific body strength was. to most people. including my spousal unit, the door was easy to operate, not that heavy and posed no problem whatsoever.

the CM on the phone may have never in their lives been in a Cat 6 on the Magic ( or Wonder) and thus had no clue whatsoever how heavy the door is, or that being at a different angle( in a seated position) woudl make it harder to get a good grip to be able to open the door.

they offered to open and close the door for you on demand.. the stateroom attendants were ALWAYS around so I doubt that you would have had to wait more than a couple of minutes either way.

there is simply no way to have a plan for every and all contingencies or guest requirements. they serve the masses and try as hard as they can to meet unique needs when they arise.

 

[dclfun]

I certainly did NOT say or feel that this was your fault, and no, you didn't mention that you discussed specifically the ability to open/close the sliding door, just that you asked if the verandah was accessible beforehand and could you get out there on your own. If you did mention specifically the ability to open that door independently then I apologize as I don't remember reading about it being such a specific question. Yes, you *can* get out there on your own, meaning you can get onto the verandah which is wide enough,the sliding door allows enough space, there is a huge turning radius, and there's not too high of a "lip" to go over with a power chair. Unless the person you spoke with has the same limitations in strength and mobility, they likely did not realize that you wouldn't be able to open the door on your own which of course is part of the process. I, too, had to get assistance with that door from my stateroom host or travelling friends, but this was not a particular challenge as the stateroom host was almost always in the area or I could call GS and they'd send someone right up. I've also had to ask someone to open the deck 7 aft public door whenever my SD wanted to relieve herself as that door was too heavy to open by myself and her break station was placed on that public verandah.

This is why all cruiselines will tell you that if you are disabled and have concerns, you should travel with an able-bodied person. I've found that even in the most "accessible" ship, there are doors that are tough to open to the outer decks, if not impossible ( due to weight and safety seals which are required), step ups in certain areas, small corridors, sometimes too steep a ramp to exit the ship in ports of call depending on water level, and of course, tenders which make it impossible for me to visit the ports at all.

I'm sure everyone onboard felt badly that you were having a rough time. I would not take the response of the managers, who kept approaching you out of genuine concern or who tried to grease the door, replace the rollers, as a "sign" either-sounds like they did their best to help you but were not able to fix the door to be operated independently. The Magic has been sailing now for 11 years with many disabled guests in those verandah staterooms, so I would be surprised if they haven't had this issue before, but I could certainly be wrong there. I have mentioned it before, in passing, to GS onboard but have not complained about it as I sought my own resolution during the cruise by asking for assistance and it was provided. They offered the same assistance to you, but I also can understand that it was *not* the solution you were looking for nor did it assuage your disappointment, and I don't blame you for that either.

As I mentioned there are things that are often not considered, such as which side of the bed one can transfer to ,how high/low is the bed, where are the outlets located to charge a chair and can they be reached, which side of the toilet is "open" for a transfer, where are the grab bars located, what kind of bench is in the shower and is it satisfactory for a specific need/weight/etc, how wide is the doorway to get in/out of the stateroom, how high are the bars in the closets, can I reach the safe, etc. and on and on....- not that you personally didn't consider or discuss these things also. There are lots of things to consider on a ship-it's not like going to a resort where issues can easily be resolved by moving you to another room or even resort. Once onboard, there's often no good solution or resolution.

I, too, am truly sorry things were not the best for you. I can tell you that other major cruiselines would not have gone so far to help you, nor would they have offered personal assistance on demand for the door or anything else for that matter. At least this has been my experience and why I will now only sail with Disney. I was told ( on Princess) that I should have considered my own limitiations, should have travelled with another guest in my stateroom to assist me rather than down the hall, and that they would NOT ( and they emphasized that) be responsible for any of my needs. So ...not too magical. At least I feel that when there is a problem, and I have had some too, Disney does care and does try to help as best as they can. This is just my opinion, and I know you have yours. Perhaps other people who have sailed or tried to sail independently with a disability such as ours ( travelling in a power w/c with strength limitations) they will chime in to share their experiences also.---Kathy

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

You know what? I am done. Just call me a soor loser and let's be done with it. I, DCL and a lot of -too many if you ask me- folks on our cruise know word for word what has been said. Doesn't even come close to what is being protrait here. If DCL can not make promisses, they simply shouldn't do that.

 

[dclfun]

You know what? I am done. Just call me a soor loser and let's be done with it. I, DCL and a lot of -too many if you ask me- folks on our cruise know word for word what has been said. Doesn't even come close to what is being protrait here. If DCL can not make promisses, they simply shouldn't do that.

I'm sorry you are "done" and this will be the last I have to say, mainly because I don't want you to feel as though I ( or others) don't understand where you're coming from. No one here can know what was said to you. We weren't involved in the conversations nor were we on the cruise with you. I have been on several DCL cruises though, have been in that same stateroom, and have had the same issue -so I, for one, certainly believe you that the sliding door was too heavy for you to open. I'm not sure what you think is being portrayed? In the past I asked for, received, and gladly accepted the assistance offered from DCL which is my perogative and that, IMO, allowed me to enjoy my verandah. You did not feel that was adequate, and you are entitled to your opinion. I would not judge you or blame you for feeling differently than I did. You already shared that you had expectations that were not met and that is understood and accepted. Please accept my apologies if I hurt your feelings or you felt I didn't understand your anger as it was not my intention.---Kathy

 

[Schmeck]

There are systems out there that more or less work the same as automatic door openers for regular doors, except opening a sliding door. Of course, he needs a bit of extra things set in place for that to work. So they put in a piece of technology that he can operate the door opener by simply pointing a laser (which can be operated via mouth/head piece) at the right spot. Was amazed the first time I had a look at that one!

The only problem using that for an outside door in the open ocean is exposure and erosion - the electrical system wouldn't last for very long in a bad storm. Nor would a headset/laser if the ship was pitching about.