Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[McCrae]

It doesn’t but it has been mentioned on here that an argument can be made that DVCM is an extension of the owner and acted on behalf of the owner and still is.

Most resorts have announced reopening dates in Florida but crickets are coming from DVCM and Disney. Yes the logistics of opening these resorts may be more complex but no statement is a statement. You have owners who are losing value In their membership by the day with no response from the management company an owner trusted would act in their best interest. Has any owner reached out to DVCM and asked for an explanation or a time frame for when their timeshare will be made available to them? Serious question.

Most people understand that Disney probably know as much as you and I when it comes to how long resorts will be impacted. No one knows. As an owner I no complaints in how they are dealing with this problem and I wouldn't be asking them questions I know they can't answer. We all need to have a bit of patience.

 

[crisi]

Renters have been left without a reservation due to owner cancellations. No one knows how often this has happened because brokers bury it. One example I could find was on the BBB site. It has and does happen. I'm not saying that the broker doesn't work to fix it, but it does happen.

Yep, and that is the risk a broker covers - but only by being able to refund your money. He cannot make reservations appear out of thin air.

 

[cmrdgrs]

Additionally, David is very fierce about protecting his image. IMO, he has posters who misrepresent themselves a "regular" people when they in fact are really working for David. IMO, they infiltrate different Disney boards working things to their advantage.

I am a poster on a different board that has been attacked by David (or a representative of his by his screen name on that board) in the past whenever I have lobbied that working with an owner direct is 100% better than a broker. I have been slammed in the past by David.

It's really one of the main reasons I have ZERO sympathy for him. All I said in the past has come true. My renters got their money back in full. David's renters are basically screwed IMO -- so Mr. Broker -- time to put your money where your mouth is. You touted protection all those years in the past, where is it?

 

[McCrae]

Like I have said multiple times, there is tons of downside and risk that comes with renting that is generally accepted.

If these contracts are sound and the renters shoulder all the risk, can I ask why David’s has made the decisions they have including but not limited to angering owners trying to get money back, and losing out real cash having to pay out new owners when vouchers are used, if this should all have been known risk renters accepted? They are pretty obviously giving vouchers to stop the immediate bleeding and spread it over time, flattening the bleeding curve if you will, because they disagree with you and believe renters are owed something.

David states he is trying to help renters impacted by this because he wants to help them, not because he is obligated to.

My communications from David's have been civil, he hasn't demanded anything. He has asked if I would be willing to help renters caught up in this, by either returning money paid or agreeing to re-rent points. It's very clear it's my choice to do this or nothing.

 

[Marionnette]

Can you expand on the cancelled reservations in the past? I don’t think I know what you’re referring to.

From 2015:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/advice-needed-room-canceled-accidentally.3419687/
Also, posted in 2017:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/e...ntal-from-trusted-site.3654850/#post-58617667

 

[crisi]

Additionally, David is very fierce about protecting his image. IMO, he has posters who misrepresent themselves a "regular" people when they in fact are really working for David. IMO, they infiltrate different Disney boards working things to their advantage.

I am a poster on a different board that has been attacked by David (or a representative of his by his screen name on that board) in the past whenever I have lobbied that working with an owner direct is 100% better than a broker. I have been slammed in the past by David.

It's really one of the main reasons I have ZERO sympathy for him. All I said in the past has come true. My renters got their money back in full. David's renters are basically screwed IMO -- so Mr. Broker -- time to put your money where your mouth is. You touted protection all those years in the past, where is it?

I honestly don't care one way or the other about David. Nor do I have a particular emotional investment in the owners or the renters. I had a good rental through David, I'd use his services again if available, but I'm not a shill for him any more than I'm a shill for Disney.

I just think people are not being realistic in what can happen, or will happen. Realistically..... David's will go under. Owners will, for the most part - pocket what they have received and won't get any more. Renters will be out reservations. There will not be a company to get your money out of.

Does anyone remember a few years ago when Thomas Cook - the British travel agency went under - a lot of people simply lost their vacations and their money? There isn't much "should" in these circumstances, there simple is what "is."

 

[Krandor]

I honestly don't care one way or the other about David. Nor do I have a particular emotional investment in the owners or the renters. I had a good rental through David, I'd use his services again if available, but I'm not a shill for him any more than I'm a shill for Disney.

I just think people are not being realistic in what can happen, or will happen. Realistically..... David's will go under. Owners will, for the most part - pocket what they have received and won't get any more. Renters will be out reservations. There will not be a company to get your money out of.

Does anyone remember a few years ago when Thomas Cook - the British travel agency went under - a lot of people simply lost their vacations and their money? There isn't much "should" in these circumstances, there simple is what "is."

I agree with the assessment of what is likely to happen which is why I think renters affected should do chargebacks. It is their most likely way to get any off their money back while they are still in business.

 

[SherylLC]

David doesn't even seem to have a basic understanding of what the status of points were that were used to book the various renters (i.e. current UY points, banked points from 2018 or 2019, or borrowed points). I say this because owners have posted emails form David asking these questions to the owner about the points the owner gave David and he used from those owners to book rooms for renters.

Without this basic knowledge on the points renters reservations were made with finding a way out of this is a huge mess. Again, just my opinion, but it's one of the reasons the only way out of this is to issue a voucher to the renter. It just seems like his is clueless about how the reservations where made. I could be completely wrong, but from what has been posted here, that what seems to be true in my eyes.

Believe me, David has been doing this for a very long time and he knows EXACTLY what points are from which use year, which will expire, banked/borrowed, etc. because it's part of the contract an owner fills out when they offer their points. He's dialed in.

Also, someone mentioned he's also an owner, so I'm thoroughly confident he gets it.

 

[crisi]

I agree with the assessment of what is likely to happen which is why I think renters affected should do chargebacks. It is their most likely way to get any off their money back while they are still in business.

If you can do so.....I think in a lot of cases, you won't be successful. But yes, if your credit card company will let you do a chargeback, go for it. Paypal probably won't, but its worth trying.

 

[Marionnette]

Believe me, David has been doing this for a very long time and he knows EXACTLY what points are from which use year, which will expire, banked/borrowed, etc. because it's part of the contract an owner fills out when they offer their points. He's dialed in.

Also, someone mentioned he's also an owner, so I'm thoroughly confident he gets it.

Oh, I firmly believe that asking an owner to supply the status of the points used is nothing more than a stall tactic. David’s knows exactly how many points came from banking, borrowing or current UYs and what UY they came from. The only time there might be some degree of ambiguity would be if the owner made multiple reservations for David’s.

 

[Krandor]

Believe me, David has been doing this for a very long time and he knows EXACTLY what points are from which use year, which will expire, banked/borrowed, etc. because it's part of the contract an owner fills out when they offer their points. He's dialed in.

Also, someone mentioned he's also an owner, so I'm thoroughly confident he gets it.

So he's my question then.. if he has all this information does he try to make up owners and renters into the safest transactions possible (not end of UY, etc) just in the event something happened that points would still be in good shape or did he just figure his no refund thing was good enough?

 

[cmrdgrs]

Believe me, David has been doing this for a very long time and he knows EXACTLY what points are from which use year, which will expire, banked/borrowed, etc. because it's part of the contract an owner fills out when they offer their points. He's dialed in.

Also, someone mentioned he's also an owner, so I'm thoroughly confident he gets it.

I'm not questioning his DVC knowledge. I'm questioning can he pull a report, from his system, that shows him for every rental what type of points that renter used for their reservation?

If he knows what type of points that were used for which renters, why is he sending emails asking owners for this information? I'll find the post with the email. I have to go back through the thread.

 

[dwight16]

i have a trip paid for Via davids for july at Aulani i see his site is basically shut down and his phones are off excellent sign. i cant read 156 pages of this post but i would imagine if things dont work out and since hawaii is currently arresting people who come there and leave there rooms and Aulani is not open currently its not looking great. Now that being said if the resort is open and i choose not to go i am out of luck. Insurance would not cover that unless i am sick so its a personal choice to walk away. on the other hand if the resort is closed when what? i did have some luck with AMEX disputing charges with some companies that would not issue refunds. that would be a tactic used if this does not work out and davids is crickets. remember he holds back 25% is he at least offering that back to people? these credit card companies would side with the customer at least in the short term and this would cause davids to go bankrupt extremely fast. the CC company takes out the money from their account right way while its being investigated.

 

[starry_solo]

Want to add a news item that is tangentally related. Many people have had their trip insurance say they are not going to pay out. Well, in Georgia, a dentist is trying to start a class action against his business insurance company for denying a business interruption claim due to COVID.

I have a feeling we are going to see more lawsuits like this against insurance companies denying claims over COVID. Legal seafood has filed one as well.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/cobb...-coronavirus-business/LdcgmYmpKQu1nxG6jRLJEM/

I'm on a class action lawsuit mailing list and I got an email about this specific issue (not the dentist, but business interruption insurance lawsuits) a few weeks ago. Crazy....

 

[cmrdgrs]

@.SherylLC

Post #2861 (from user knockUout)

https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...r-rescheduling.3796922/page-144#post-61861790
Email from David asking the owner for details on the points they rented. IMO, if David has all this information at his fingertips he wouldn't need to send this email. So, you tell me, why is he collecting this information if he already has it all?

 

[SageG]

Post #2861 (from user knockUout)

https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...r-rescheduling.3796922/page-144#post-61861790
Email from David asking the owner for details on the points they rented. IMO, if David has all this information at his fingertips he wouldn't need to send this email. So, you tell me, why is he collecting this information if he already has it all?

Renter here. My reservations were made back in August 2019. The representative I was speaking with (a month ago when they were still talking to renters about rebooking) said that they didn't have UY and banking data on the underlying points for my reservation digitally. They have it in their office in paper format, but due to local ordinances, they were not allowed to go to their office to retrieve the data. She said they had gone through a digitization process at some point between now and August 2019, so most of the reservations she was working on had this data but the older ones like mine did not. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[starry_solo]

I'm not questioning his DVC knowledge. I'm questioning can he pull a report, from his system, that shows him for every rental what type of points that renter used for their reservation?

If he knows what type of points that were used for which renters, why is he sending emails asking owners for this information? I'll find the post with the email. I have to go back through the thread.

It doesn't seem like he (David's) can....which is odd.

Here's my rough math, just for March.

2500 reservations/month
March = was closed for 1/2 the month so let's just even it out and say that in March, there were 1250 reservations left that were cancelled due to the closure.

15 days left in March (calendar days, not working days). 13-15 employees? Let's go with 13 employees.

So, 13 employees to handle 1250 reservations (since in March, we knew they would be closed to March 31st). That's a little less than 100 reservations per person to handle in 15 days (ok, let's take out the weekends and make it 9 days. So 11 reservations per person per day.

I don't know. I don't see how they (David's) can't have organized records of which owners they matched up with which renters and their user year/points used. It seems to be a simple Excel Spreadsheet (well, multiple)....

Then give each of them a personalized solution.

 

[cm8]

the cash to renters.



Snip....[/QUOTE]You can see it in this thread. By in large almost all owners believe they are entitled to the funds because it was "non refundable", while renteres believe they are entitled to full refund because they don't believe the non refundable applies to this situation.

What you have stated is absolutely not the case. Those of us who are Owners and Rent have bent over backwards to meet the needs of OUR Renters even if we had to take a loss because that is what you do. PERIOD.

Don’t make us out to be greedy and self serving when it’s not even remotely the case. And furthermore, David’s workforce size has zero to do with the ability to make one’s customers whole. He could easily send an email instructing his crew to provide customer recovery even if he stands to lose a few $$$$$.

The ones that won’t refund are within their right to do so as they have not been made whole either. Why should they have to return the $$$ when He’s still keeping what rightfully belongs to them and won’t even issue the refund back to the Renter but only willing to offer a so called voucher not worth the nothingness it’s printed on?

It’s almost like “the nerve of the Owner to want to be made whole”while they are only interested in doing what David did, Protecting their assets at all cost.

All this makes some people realize is that they can now cut the middleman out.

This is all my opinion though, so take it for what it is worth

 

[Sandisw]

I'm not questioning his DVC knowledge. I'm questioning can he pull a report, from his system, that shows him for every rental what type of points that renter used for their reservation?

If he knows what type of points that were used for which renters, why is he sending emails asking owners for this information? I'll find the post with the email. I have to go back through the thread.

He knows the status of my points as I only offered borrowed points from my Aug UY. It’s part of the contract and it is what triggers the email asking to book a reservation.

So, somewhere he has to have the information in terms of the renters information and reservation. It wouldn’t be hard to know at least in most cases.

 

[Marionnette]

Renter here. My reservations were made back in August 2019. The representative I was speaking with (a month ago when they were still talking to renters about rebooking) said that they didn't have UY and banking data on the underlying points for my reservation digitally. They have it in their office in paper format, but due to local ordinances, they were not allowed to go to their office to retrieve the data. She said they had gone through a digitization process at some point between now and August 2019, so most of the reservations she was working on had this data but the older ones like mine did not. Take that for what it's worth.

Smoke and mirrors. Like the Wizard of Oz pushing buttons and pulling levers behind a curtain.

I can pull up an intermediary agreement email from them from last year. It specifically lists how many points are in my annual allotment, my UY, the number of points that are current, the number that are banked and the number that I was willing to borrow to complete a reservation. If I can pull up that email, why can’t they? Who prints this stuff out without keeping a digital copy, too?