Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[Sandisw]

I think there are a lot of owners and potential renters that will continue to use David's. He controls his FB page and deletes negative reviews, so unless you are on a forum, or know someone impacted, you probably have no clue of the mess going on.

True, but I know his reputation will take a hit here on the DIS, and potentially elsewhere,

I am going to bet that Disney comes out with some good incentives that is going to make the savings from renting less, which may not be enough to outweigh the risk.

Will he retain some business? Sure. But it will take a while IMO to have more owners decide to book with him, unless he raises his price and cuts his commission.

 

[DisneyBB]

I have not offered it back yet. They did not demand the money back either, see below. I did ask if I could refund the renter directly a few weeks ago which they basically sent a canned answer that the renter will be getting a travel voucher. I also asked if I could re-rent but they said that they are not doing summer rentals at this time, for obvious reasons, but this does not help me because my points will expire over the summer. So my only option is to take my chance not doing anything (which personally does not feel right) or just return the money and move on.

" We are asking if you would be willing to return the 70% of funds for the Lieder reservation. The funds that are returned will go towards a Travel Credit for the family. This Travel Credit will be in the total amount that the XXX Family paid for their reservation including our commission.

If refunding the money is not feasible, would you be willing to re-rent your returned points? By re-renting your returned points the funds from the new guest will go towards the Travel Credit.

We understand that this is a big request and a situation that we have never encountered. We are hoping that we can all work together to find a viable solution."

Yes that does sound like a request not a demand. My understanding is they have to give the renter a travel voucher whether you return the money or not. I am starting the process of early and hoping to reschedule or refund the renters. I almost wish the renters would cancel then I could refund directly to them. As David would have to give me the 30%.

 

[Sandisw]

Well Disney finally canceled my april reservation that was rented out. Although I dont like the idea of refunding the money to Davids rather than the renter, I guess I will return the 70% to wash my hands of this.

I rebooked my non-bankable points for the last 5 days in August (before my UY expires). I will either go for a non-park vacation or try to rent the reservation if things calm down. Davids really doesnt give me any other option and put me in a tough spot.

It is a tough spot but if I am faced with the same issue come August, I will not be returning the funds,

I will simply say I will work with the renter directly, and let Davids know when it is rescheduled so he can update his records to pay me the additional 30%.

If he doesn’t agree, then I will tell him I am opting out and he can keep the 30%.

 

[Sandisw]

I am not directly affected by this mess, yet. I am an owner and made a booking for Davids for October, hopefully all will be back to normal by then.
One thing I'm not sure of. I thought our DVC contract as owners said we can't take money in exchange for a reservation for someone else. We can gift our points or bank and borrow them. Am I wrong? I've been an owner for 27 years so its been awhile since I read my contract. I only started renting through David's a few years ago and have had a great experience doing that.
People are complaining about Davids lifestyle, yachts, trips, etc. We dont know his back story but why do we begrudge him the good life? I'm sure lots of companies have gone under and the owner has come out of it untouched and his lifestyle goes on, why is this any different?

Contract allows you to rent a reservation made with your points. You are, however, responsible for all your guests, so if there issues, your account would be frozen until you get your renters or guests to fix them,

 

[momincolorado]

Re-reading it, they do make it sound like they need the money returned to offer the renter the voucher, but I assume that is just poor language and not accurate to the situation. However, if it is accurate then I guess at least returning the money provides something to the renter that I would not otherwise be able to provide.

No, I’m a renter dealing with expired points reservation and, according to David’s, an owner who refuses to refund the 70%. Nevertheless, David’s did extend the voucher offer to me so the worthless voucher offer is not dependent on you returning the 70%. If you can find a way to refund the renter directly and work David’s into the communication, I’m sure that would be preferable to the renter.

 

[cmrdgrs]

I also forgot to add I begrudge having a FB page that deletes negative comments. I begrudge the unicorns and rainbows facade. I also begrudge his ability to be humble and apologetic.

Rant over (I think)

 

[cmrdgrs]

No, I’m a renter dealing with expired points reservation and, according to David’s, an owner who refuses to refund the 70%. Nevertheless, David’s did extend the voucher offer to me so the worthless voucher offer is not dependent on you returning the 70%. If you can find a way to refund the renter directly and work David’s into the communication, I’m sure that would be preferable to the renter.

This could be true. May not be true. Since he won't allow anyone to work out deals in between parties that are willing to work out deals. Did you try to go the chargeback route? Another poster said that even if the chargeback isn't successful for you David is saying that he will still honor the voucher. So, from that standpoint, you have nothing to lose (the one GOOD thing he is doing).

 

[Sandisw]

No, I’m a renter dealing with expired points reservation and, according to David’s, an owner who refuses to refund the 70%. Nevertheless, David’s did extend the voucher offer to me so the worthless voucher offer is not dependent on you returning the 70%. If you can find a way to refund the renter directly and work David’s into the communication, I’m sure that would be preferable to the renter.

Thank you for sharing. This is exactly why if my renters reservation is an issue, I will not be refunding what I have been paid,

IMO, vouchers should be for those renters whose owners were not able to help in either refunding or rescheduling,

But, that would be worse for Davids because the more vouchers he issues, the higher percentage that could expire with never being used, and thus he gets it all.

 

[momincolorado]

This could be true. May not be true. Since he won't allow anyone to work out deals in between parties that are willing to work out deals. Did you try to go the chargeback route? Another poster said that even if the chargeback isn't successful for you David is saying that he will still honor the voucher. So, from that standpoint, you have nothing to lose (the one GOOD thing he is doing).

You are right, I have no way of knowing who, at this point, is hanging on to the 70%. David’s refunded me 30% of the total and wants to roll the remainder into this worthless voucher. Yes, I’m taking the chargeback route for the remaining 70% - chase confirmed that I can do this even on a partial amount.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

" We are asking if you would be willing to return the 70% of funds for the _______ reservation. The funds that are returned will go towards a Travel Credit for the family. This Travel Credit will be in the total amount that the XXX Family paid for their reservation including our commission."

So, assuming that the travel voucher retains it's value and the renter uses it in the future to re-book, David's will have to keep the 70% that the owner returned in "escrow. " Maybe not a formal escrow account, but at least holding on to those funds so he has them available when the time comes to make good on the redeeming the voucher.

If he, instead uses those funds for something else (presumably to cover charge-backs), then he will only have funds to cover the vouchers if income from new renters comes in. But if, he has to pay that money (minus his commission) to the owners for these new transactions, that still doesn't fund the vouchers.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around where the money is going to come from when it's time to pay the piper for all of these vouchers that are being issued.

If the 70% being returned by the owner is actually being used to "fund" the voucher, then it would be a wash if David's refunded the renter instead of giving them a voucher.

Lastly, if the renter gets their money back (whether through charge-back, successfully redeeming a voucher, actual cash refund, or whatever), and David's keeps their commission, the owners with distressed/expired points are still left as the sole loser in this scenario. I'd surmise that a lot of people rent precisely because those points are going to expire. They will lose those points and get none of the funds if they volunteer to refund the 70% to David's.

What if David's asked the owner to give a partial refund and he took the difference out of his commission?

 

[McCrae]

No, I’m a renter dealing with expired points reservation and, according to David’s, an owner who refuses to refund the 70%. Nevertheless, David’s did extend the voucher offer to me so the worthless voucher offer is not dependent on you returning the 70%. If you can find a way to refund the renter directly and work David’s into the communication, I’m sure that would be preferable to the renter.

Have you consider how fair this would be to the owner? Fees have been paid on the points rented out. Why should the owner lose out.

 

[Deb & Bill]

True, but I know his reputation will take a hit here on the DIS, and potentially elsewhere,
...

It's already taking hits right and left in various locations.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

You are right, I have no way of knowing who, at this point, is hanging on to the 70%. David’s refunded me 30% of the total and wants to roll the remainder into this worthless voucher. Yes, I’m taking the chargeback route for the remaining 70% - chase confirmed that I can do this even on a partial amount.

So, he's issuing a partial cash refund of the 30% to renters (the 30% that some would argue he owes to the owner), and the voucher is only for the remaining 70%?

No matter how I do the math, it appears that he's using everyone else's money to solve the problem, but not giving up his cut. Maybe that's actually happening but, based on what his customers are reporting, it certainly doesn't seem so.

 

[momincolorado]

Have you consider how fair this would be to the owner? Fees have been paid on the points rented out. Why should the owner lose out.

I didn’t say they should. I simply made a factual statement that according to David’s, the owner refused to send back the 70%. I certainly don’t think that the owner should be sending anything back to David’s. If they are willing to refund, they should be refunding the renter not the broker. If they are not willing to refund, the chargeback is against the broker, not the owner, because the broker accepted the renter’s payment.

 

[Deb & Bill]

You are right, I have no way of knowing who, at this point, is hanging on to the 70%. David’s refunded me 30% of the total and wants to roll the remainder into this worthless voucher. Yes, I’m taking the chargeback route for the remaining 70% - chase confirmed that I can do this even on a partial amount.

Make sure you get the full amount he owes you. He gives the owner of the points about 54% of what you paid him to make the reservation. He kept about 47%, the "30%" he owes the owner of the points (24% of the total) and the 20% he kept for himself.

 

[vnovabri]

How about providing the money back to the renter? That credit may never be able to be used by the family that booked the original travel.

I agree that is why I asked Davids to do this. However, I have reservations about doing this personally. If somehow Davids is able to seek recourse and rightfully demand the 70% back, I will be in a double loss situation.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

You are right, I have no way of knowing who, at this point, is hanging on to the 70%. David’s refunded me 30% of the total and wants to roll the remainder into this worthless voucher. Yes, I’m taking the chargeback route for the remaining 70% - chase confirmed that I can do this even on a partial amount.

Thanks for this. You say David refunded you 30% of what you paid so that would not include the commission, correct?

 

[momincolorado]

Make sure you get the full amount he owes you. He gives the owner of the points about 54% of what you paid him to make the reservation. He kept about 47%, the "30%" he owes the owner of the points (24% of the total) and the 20% he kept for himself.

Yes, I made the calculations and have the amounts written down - what went to the owner, amount of David’s commission, what they refunded back to me and what the remainder is. I have an e-mail paper trail where this was discussed with them as well and I have provided it to Chase. Thank you! I will update on the chargeback when I hear anything, I’m sure other renters going that route will as well.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

Thanks for this. You say David refunded you 30% of what you paid so that would include the commission, correct?

Not necessarily. As "Deb & Bill" illustrated above, David's has possession of almost half of the total funds. So, if he refunds 30%, he is still holding onto around 20%, while asking the owner to return their 70% (really about 54% of the total).

 

[Dracula]

I am not directly affected by this mess, yet. I am an owner and made a booking for Davids for October, hopefully all will be back to normal by then.
One thing I'm not sure of. I thought our DVC contract as owners said we can't take money in exchange for a reservation for someone else. We can gift our points or bank and borrow them. Am I wrong? I've been an owner for 27 years so its been awhile since I read my contract. I only started renting through David's a few years ago and have had a great experience doing that.
People are complaining about Davids lifestyle, yachts, trips, etc. We dont know his back story but why do we begrudge him the good life? I'm sure lots of companies have gone under and the owner has come out of it untouched and his lifestyle goes on, why is this any different?

This is a very interesting clause in David's contract with the owner. Technically David asks to be the exclusive channel to the market for the owner's points available for rentals, prohibiting the owner from listing with other brokers or by himself. This is one-sided verbiage in the contract, because David does not guarantee the points would be rented through his service, therefore asking the owner to assume the risk of his points not being rented. However, I would not lose too much sleep over this clause as it is unenforceable - David has no way of knowing what you do with your points; by all means, let David know if the amount of available points on your contract has changed.

Somewhat similarly, when I sold a house through a realtor, I had to sign a time-bound exclusive listing agreement. In that case, the realtor pursued an MLS listing, took pictures of the property and assumed advertising costs. But in this case, David's costs of loading another 160-point contract in his computer are negligible - it is laughable that he requests (and maybe even expects) exclusivity.