Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[LAX]

In that case, filing for bankruptcy would be a double edged sword. He might stop the current bleeding but once in bankruptcy, this voucher plan would no longer hold any water as being a credible solution.

Personally, I wouldn’t take a travel voucher because I believe they are worthless. Whether David’s goes under now or in 3 month, his business model - that he’s a safety net for both owner and renter - is irreparably harmed.

Oh. I absolutely agree with you that David's as a company is toast, IMHO. My guess on the voucher plan is that it might buy him some extra time. Once he files for BK, does he even have to care about charge backs then (honest question)?

LAX

 

[Amymouse13]

I feel his desire to avoid letting renters rebook with willing owners which would actually fulfill the terms of the contract makes his argument less persuasive.

We also presume he's a brilliant legal mind, but were he, his contract wouldn't have had problems.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

I feel his desire to avoid letting renters rebook with willing owners which would actually fulfill the terms of the contract makes his argument less persuasive.

We also presume he's a brilliant legal mind, but were he, his contract wouldn't have had problems.

Recall that major sports, entertainment and companies all over the world are having these problems. The lawsuits have not really begun. IMO Dave has a simple contract for many valid and smart reasons. One of them is that no contract can ever meet every contingency.
Example: the use of including but not limited to. This is an acknowledgement that events outside what is foreseen can arise and assigning those risks to one party. Arguably (and it is a strong argument) this is what happened.

IMO Dave's will have a business that can survive IF he doesn't have all his liquidity taken and if they can come up with fair solutions.

Lots of complaints on these boards about Disney and/or DVC not being able to come up with solutions. Disney has far vaster resources than Dave's.

 

[PopGirl26]

What would you do?

I had a points rental for 3/24-3/28 through David’s. The owner was very kind and rescheduled for May for us, but her points will be unusable after May (I don’t own DVC or understand use years, but I believe her).

It seems very unlikely that Disney resorts will be open in May, so I am thinking of any way I can to recoup the money I paid.

I intentionally paid with a card that had travel insurance (Sapphire Preferred), and it excludes fear due to pandemic. But in this case, it isn’t my fear keeping me from travel. It’s that the resort will (presumably) be closed!

Has anyone attempted an insurance claim yet? Any other thoughts about how to salvage this?

 

[TheWheel]

So here's my story as a renter.

I made two reservations through David's for a split stay that was supposed to have ended yesterday.

Upon the parks closing but prior to the resorts closing I reached out to David's initially just to ask if they had a plan should the resorts shut down and I got one of their "We are looking into it" replies.

I knew that if the hotels stayed open I was likely to just be out my vacation and money.

After they announced the closing of the resorts I reached out again as I viewed the language in the contract that I was due a refund. However, I was willing to work with the owners if they were also willing to try and rebook.

After a couple of days I had heard nothing from David's so followed up and they replied saying that one of the owners was willing to rebook but they hadn't heard back from the other. I let them know that if they didn't hear back my expectation was I will be refunded for that reservation.

Unfortunately we were not able to find a similar booking during a time that worked for us. I let David's know that I thought it would be easier for all if they refunded my money as per the contract and they were free to work with the owner to rebook their points.

Davids reply was that they didn't have the cash on hand to provide my refund. This is when the alarm bells really started ringing in my head. I realized that David's wasn't working on helping their owners and guests get through this. They were only interested in keeping themselves alive and that they were willing to lie or do what they felt they needed to to keep the lights on.

I let them know that they should either find it or I would have to dispute through my CC.

I also was becoming more alarmed by reading the forums here and their social media postings and realized that if I didn't get my money soon it was unlikely to come at all so I thought it was time to put more pressure on. I reached out again as I had heard no response and told them they had 2 days to refund or I would be taking this to dispute with my credit card.

Their response was to try and lay a guilt trip about being a small family run operation with 35 employees etc. They asked me to please not go the charge back route. My response was that while I had sympathy with their situation it was unfair for them to believe that their customers needed to be the ones to foot their tab and that I expected my refund as per our contract.

David's responded saying they had been able to re-rent one of my owners points and they would be refunding my amount in full. I asked about the other reservation and they said they were going to reach out to the other owner. (That they had told me they reached out to a week prior) I told them that since they had refunded for the first one I would give them more time but that my expectation was still a refund as per my contract.

I heard nothing and reached out again. They said they had sent the owner another booking and were just awaiting him making the reservation.

I waited two days and reached out again. They responded saying that the booking fell through. Around this time the talk of these vouchers started to come online and I knew this was a house of cards. Once again I gave them 48 hours to refund or I would be forced to go the charge back route.

2 days later I reached out as I hadn't heard anything and they replied that they had found new renters but the reservation was shorter so they could only provide a partial refund and that they already processed it. I let them know that I did not agree to a partial refund and that they needed to refund me in full. The next day they let me know that they would be refunding the remaining money.

I've booked directly with Disney now and while I downgrade from Deluxe to Moderate I did get free dining plan and no risk if I need to cancel again.

At the end of the day, happy ending for me. The owners have new bookings (assuming Davids stays in business for the 30% payout and Davids has 2 less bookings to worry about.

I think my resolution came about the way it did for a few reasons.
1. I was one of the earliest affected renters and I reached out early.
2. My owners were willing to work to fix what they could on their end and had points that were not expiring soon.
3. I kept on David's and didn't just send one email and walk away with faith that David's would make it right (plus the email communications would have come in very handy in the case of a credit card dispute.) I was approaching 20 different communications between phone and email.
4. I also wonder if being from Canada helped as it would have been much easier for myself to launch legal action against David then it would be for others.

 

[Amymouse13]

As much as David's might want one outcome for all this, vouchers. That's clearly not going to happen. Likely a mix of owners working with renters outside contract, vouchers, insurance, and chargebacks. Chargebacks are not all one outcome... Each case is different and every credit card company will decide individually. We used two different ones and I'd be surprised if they had same outcome.

 

[DisneyLover83]

I’ve read so many different things... we rented through David’s for 5/23-5/30 at AKL. Booked it last September.
Do we just wait? And what are we waiting on? For Disney to cancel the reservation? My owners name is generic so attempting to locate and reach my owner would be impossible. We are AP holders and flexible with dates but I fear I’ll be out all my resort money by the time the end of May rolls around with what I’m hearing about David’s.
We are sad and heartbroken because If we lose this money we can’t afford to rebook through another avenue.

 

[Amymouse13]

I’ve read so many different things... we rented through David’s for 5/23-5/30 at AKL. Booked it last September.
Do we just wait? And what are we waiting on? For Disney to cancel the reservation? My owners name is generic so attempting to locate and reach my owner would be impossible. We are AP holders and flexible with dates but I fear I’ll be out all my resort money by the time the end of May rolls around with what I’m hearing about David’s.
We are sad and heartbroken because If we lose this money we can’t afford to rebook through another avenue.

Our trip wouldn't be til April 18 split stay but the owners both cancelled ours, saw second reservation was cancelled by April 1. After run around with David's I put in chargebacks. Honestly our 3.5 yo was so sad when April 1 came as she was like April! We go to Disney in April... No honey... I used to be thinking about rebooking but my husband had to close his dental practice as per state last month. Down one income, unless we get money back yeah IDK when we'd be going. I wish we could get our tickets refunded. We also had to cancel a trip in August. The 2 year old loves flipping through a pretty Disney book from when I went as a child... Maybe some day...

I pushed forward with my chargeback as my reservations are cancelled. I'm sure David's would tell you they are sorting out March and April and to not send more than one email... Disney hasn't for sure said closed in May yet either...

 

[OurDogCisco]

Our trip wouldn't be til April 18 split stay but the owners both cancelled ours, saw second reservation was cancelled by April 1. After run around with David's I put in chargebacks. Honestly our 3.5 yo was so sad when April 1 came as she was like April! We go to Disney in April... No honey... I used to be thinking about rebooking but my husband had to close his dental practice as per state last month. Down one income, unless we get money back yeah IDK when we'd be going. I wish we could get our tickets refunded. We also had to cancel a trip in August. The 2 year old loves flipping through a pretty Disney book from when I went as a child... Maybe some day...

I pushed forward with my chargeback as my reservations are cancelled. I'm sure David's would tell you they are sorting out March and April and to not send more than one email... Disney hasn't for sure said closed in May yet either...

How do you know the owner cancelled? DVC is automatically canceling reservations. I’ve gotten no real response from David’s other than canned promises. I have 3 rentals out with David and I’d like to help the renters but very difficult this is a very unusual situation. I’d happily refund my renter but I only have part of the funds. David gives us 70% of 14.50 so about 10.15 per point. You paid 18.50 a point so I couldn’t really make you whole. This process is very frustrating

 

[DougEMG]

A friend of mine had a trip booked to Portugal through Expedia which was cancelled and instead of a refund, Expedia gave them a voucher good for 1 year.

 

[Amymouse13]

How do you know the owner cancelled? DVC is automatically canceling reservations. I’ve gotten no real response from David’s other than canned promises. I have 3 rentals out with David and I’d like to help the renters but very difficult this is a very unusual situation. I’d happily refund my renter but I only have part of the funds. David gives us 70% of 14.50 so about 10.15 per point. You paid 18.50 a point so I couldn’t really make you whole. This process is very frustrating

I saw on my Disney app on April 1 the BLT was cancelled for April 18. My understanding is Disney is only cancelling a week out. My April 22 AK was cancelled before that. David's had told me my AKL owner would rebook me after we found out deal with BLT. The girl said BLT owner had two rentals during March time and thought the points may be expiring as I had booked so far out (duh we booked last April or May lol). That was last they told me until canned vouchers.

I find a voucher I can just enter on a website like Expedia to have more value than David's. Hell no to a cruise.

As has been said before owners have renters info if they opt to contact them. I sent my AKL owner a fb message but no response. Idk how to contact my BLT owner as the deed says some timeshare LLC.

I originally would have been happy with rebooking me as that still gave me a reservation... But David's has opted no to go that path even for those that can... That's my issue.

OBX rental companies have on their website we are dealing with each situation separately. Smart, don't lock yourself into one path for everyone. Fix as many problems as you can then sort out rest. I hadn't planned to do chargeback until reading what he was doing on here. The management of the owners is shady.

 

[toniosmom]

So here's my story as a renter.

I made two reservations through David's for a split stay that was supposed to have ended yesterday.

Upon the parks closing but prior to the resorts closing I reached out to David's initially just to ask if they had a plan should the resorts shut down and I got one of their "We are looking into it" replies.

I knew that if the hotels stayed open I was likely to just be out my vacation and money.

After they announced the closing of the resorts I reached out again as I viewed the language in the contract that I was due a refund. However, I was willing to work with the owners if they were also willing to try and rebook.

After a couple of days I had heard nothing from David's so followed up and they replied saying that one of the owners was willing to rebook but they hadn't heard back from the other. I let them know that if they didn't hear back my expectation was I will be refunded for that reservation.

Unfortunately we were not able to find a similar booking during a time that worked for us. I let David's know that I thought it would be easier for all if they refunded my money as per the contract and they were free to work with the owner to rebook their points.

Davids reply was that they didn't have the cash on hand to provide my refund. This is when the alarm bells really started ringing in my head. I realized that David's wasn't working on helping their owners and guests get through this. They were only interested in keeping themselves alive and that they were willing to lie or do what they felt they needed to to keep the lights on.

I let them know that they should either find it or I would have to dispute through my CC.

I also was becoming more alarmed by reading the forums here and their social media postings and realized that if I didn't get my money soon it was unlikely to come at all so I thought it was time to put more pressure on. I reached out again as I had heard no response and told them they had 2 days to refund or I would be taking this to dispute with my credit card.

Their response was to try and lay a guilt trip about being a small family run operation with 35 employees etc. They asked me to please not go the charge back route. My response was that while I had sympathy with their situation it was unfair for them to believe that their customers needed to be the ones to foot their tab and that I expected my refund as per our contract.

David's responded saying they had been able to re-rent one of my owners points and they would be refunding my amount in full. I asked about the other reservation and they said they were going to reach out to the other owner. (That they had told me they reached out to a week prior) I told them that since they had refunded for the first one I would give them more time but that my expectation was still a refund as per my contract.

I heard nothing and reached out again. They said they had sent the owner another booking and were just awaiting him making the reservation.

I waited two days and reached out again. They responded saying that the booking fell through. Around this time the talk of these vouchers started to come online and I knew this was a house of cards. Once again I gave them 48 hours to refund or I would be forced to go the charge back route.

2 days later I reached out as I hadn't heard anything and they replied that they had found new renters but the reservation was shorter so they could only provide a partial refund and that they already processed it. I let them know that I did not agree to a partial refund and that they needed to refund me in full. The next day they let me know that they would be refunding the remaining money.

I've booked directly with Disney now and while I downgrade from Deluxe to Moderate I did get free dining plan and no risk if I need to cancel again.

At the end of the day, happy ending for me. The owners have new bookings (assuming Davids stays in business for the 30% payout and Davids has 2 less bookings to worry about.

I think my resolution came about the way it did for a few reasons.
1. I was one of the earliest affected renters and I reached out early.
2. My owners were willing to work to fix what they could on their end and had points that were not expiring soon.
3. I kept on David's and didn't just send one email and walk away with faith that David's would make it right (plus the email communications would have come in very handy in the case of a credit card dispute.) I was approaching 20 different communications between phone and email.
4. I also wonder if being from Canada helped as it would have been much easier for myself to launch legal action against David then it would be for others.

Wow....I'm impressed that you were able to receive responses from them.....multiple times! I'm so tired of reaching out and receiving NOTHING in response. I would even take a "We received your message. Thanks for rebooking your renter. We'll get the updated rental agreement out to you within the next week." Seriously....I know they're insanely busy. Yet, they have someone posting crap on their Facebook page. I posted a comment about not being able to reach anyone and it was promptly deleted. Yes, I realize that probably wasn't the place to put a post like that, which had nothing to do with the original post, but I hoped it would at least motivate someone to respond to me. Nothing. I've really been trying to give David's the benefit of the doubt......understanding their plight.....but I'm losing faith.

 

[Krandor]

Whatever comes from this, David's is at a minimum going to have to re-do their contract. Here is what I'd do.

1) In the contract put the expiration date of the points. Renters may not know all the details of borrowing, banking, etc and shouldn't have to so I'd put it as something like "you are renting x number of points that are valid though. a/b/c"
2) Change owner payment to 50% upfront and 50% on check-in
3) Add a clause for resort closure with two remedies.
a) if the poiints can be rebooked before they expire (and see #1 that date is included) then the points are simply rebooked with original owner
b) if points cannot be rebooked, owner keeps the 50%, renter gets the second 50% due to owner refunded as well as half David's fees which I believe should come out to around an actual 50% refund to the renter. Shared pain for all but nobody loses everythinig.

 

[ziravan]

Whatever comes from this, David's is at a minimum going to have to re-do their contract. Here is what I'd do.

1) In the contract put the expiration date of the points. Renters may not know all the details of borrowing, banking, etc and shouldn't have to so I'd put it as something like "you are renting x number of points that are valid though. a/b/c"
2) Change owner payment to 50% upfront and 50% on check-in
3) Add a clause for resort closure with two remedies.
a) if the poiints can be rebooked before they expire (and see #1 that date is included) then the points are simply rebooked with original owner
b) if points cannot be rebooked, owner keeps the 50%, renter gets the second 50% due to owner refunded as well as half David's fees which I believe should come out to around an actual 50% refund to the renter. Shared pain for all but nobody loses everythinig.

If he adds the expiration of the points, renters will come to believe that they can be rebooked for any reason before that day. His office will field a 100 calls a day from now on that has some variant of, “but the points are still good for eight more months; can’t you just work with me?!” - and that will frustrate his business model. There’s a reason he stressed no refunds, no changes and disclosing the expiration date of the points just adds bad feelings for people who need to change their dates.

Regarding 50% up front, not gonna happen. If anything, he’ll need to go to 80% to entice some owners back. David’s model is in danger enough without him implementing policies that would give him access to fewer owners. If he tried 50%, he’d never find enough owners to even make this voucher plan work, much less to actually make money in the future.

 

[McCrae]

DIsney have cancelled the reservation I had for renters and returned points to me.
David’s have advised as far as they are concerned I have completed my contractual obligations to them, regardless of me re renting the points or not. I am not required to make any refund. Any dispute with the renter will between them and I have no liability.

 

[PrincessNelly]

Whatever comes from this, David's is at a minimum going to have to re-do their contract. Here is what I'd do.

1) In the contract put the expiration date of the points. Renters may not know all the details of borrowing, banking, etc and shouldn't have to so I'd put it as something like "you are renting x number of points that are valid though. a/b/c"
2) Change owner payment to 50% upfront and 50% on check-in
3) Add a clause for resort closure with two remedies.
a) if the poiints can be rebooked before they expire (and see #1 that date is included) then the points are simply rebooked with original owner
b) if points cannot be rebooked, owner keeps the 50%, renter gets the second 50% due to owner refunded as well as half David's fees which I believe should come out to around an actual 50% refund to the renter. Shared pain for all but nobody loses everythinig.

I just can't see people jumping to rent knowing they'd only get back 47% if the resort closed. To be honest, I know a lot of people who outright have stated they won't rent anymore because of this.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

If he adds the expiration of the points, renters will come to believe that they can be rebooked for any reason before that day. His office will field a 100 calls a day from now on that has some variant of, “but the points are still good for eight more months; can’t you just work with me?!” - and that will frustrate his business model. There’s a reason he stressed no refunds, no changes and disclosing the expiration date of the points just adds bad feelings for people who need to change their dates.

Regarding 50% up front, not gonna happen. If anything, he’ll need to go to 80% to entice some owners back. David’s model is in danger enough without him implementing policies that would give him access to fewer owners. If he tried 50%, he’d never find enough owners to even make this voucher plan work, much less to actually make money in the future.

I agree with you. What I think will have to happen to keep owners and renters coming is going to have to come out of the company’s pocket. That only makes sense, both parties currently have good reason to be unhappy with status quo.

It’s likely going to require a price drop for renters, while subsequently keeping owner’s portion the same or very close to what it is now, which a larger portion going to them upfront.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I just can't see people jumping to rent knowing they'd only get back 47% if the resort closed. To be honest, I know a lot of people who outright have stated they won't rent anymore because of this.

Actually, I think a guaranteed and defined no fighting about it portion coming back in the event of a closure makes renting a little more appealing than it is right now. Not that we will be doing it again, but I do think it helps.

It’s not just the money lost, it’s the frustration of dealing with this entire thing, the shady actions, the wishy washy behaviour, the poor communication, the insurance issues, etc.

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

DIsney have cancelled the reservation I had for renters and returned points to me.
David’s have advised as far as they are concerned I have completed my contractual obligations to them, regardless of me re renting the points or not. I am not required to make any refund. Any dispute with the renter will between them and I have no liability.

What is he saying about the 30%?

 

[McCrae]

What is he saying about the 30%?

I didn’t ask for further clarification on that.