Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[vnovabri]

That's exactly why I did NOT cancel the reservation myself. I waited until DISNEY cancelled it and returned my points to me.

When did Disney cancel your reservation. I have a reservation April 25-29 that has not been canceled yet. I am waiting for that to trigger before refunding any money to Davids.

 

[Cyberc1978]

That's exactly why I did NOT cancel the reservation myself. I waited until DISNEY cancelled it and returned my points to me.

Let’s say that you actually did cancel the reservation yourself how could anyone ever proof that you did it and not Disney?

 

[tallguy001]

They are still deleting questions off their page.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

View attachment 485032
They are still deleting questions off their page.

Yup. An owner asked very politely if it was okay to contact their renter to reschedule them and then pass along the new reservation number and info to Davids, I’m pretty sure that’s the most recent deleted post.

 

[Dracula]

Let’s say that you actually did cancel the reservation yourself how could anyone ever proof that you did it and not Disney?

Why would an owner cancel the reservation and have the points go into holding? The best thing to do is wait for Disney to cancel, so points are not in holding and may even be unborrowed. Plus remain in compliance with David's contract, so as to avoid refunding the 70% downpayment.

 

[yankeesfan123]

When did Disney cancel your reservation. I have a reservation April 25-29 that has not been canceled yet. I am waiting for that to trigger before refunding any money to Davids.

i assume cancellations from Disney will be coming in a day or two. They aren’t an exception to the governor’s order.

 

[Maddiesmum03]

It must depend on who you correspond with at David's. I have been repeatedly been told that would not receive the remaining 30% until checkin of the re-rent. I have little faith would receive that 30%.

I am really going to hold out for full payment before rebooking, the other option, as someone on here suggested pages back, was to offer to re rent only 70% of the points as that is what has been paid for.

 

[McCrae]

I am really going to hold out for full payment before rebooking, the other option, as someone on here suggested pages back, was to offer to re rent only 70% of the points as that is what has been paid for.

I am thinking about saying to David’s keep the 30%, and walking away. Would like a clean break.

 

[Brian Noble]

I am thinking about saying to David’s keep the 30%, and walking away. Would like a clean break.

This is what I would do. I would also try to help the renter on the side however I could given the life left in those points and my own financial wherewithal. The one thing that the pandemic is helping me think carefully about is that my actions are not just about me and my family, but that I'm tightly bound with everyone around me. This is another example of that, and I would be willing to share some of the renter's pain.

I'm less willing to share a company's pain, though.

 

[Nennie]

They are deleting posts like crazy, and they don't want owners contacting renters to rebook. They are digging their own grave at this point.

 

[Sandisw]

Why would an owner cancel the reservation and have the points go into holding? The best thing to do is wait for Disney to cancel, so points are not in holding and may even be unborrowed. Plus remain in compliance with David's contract, so as to avoid refunding the 70% downpayment.

No points are going into holding, even those canceled by the owners right now as they are closed until further notice...they are waiving it for all.

 

[cutigerlady]

Realize that David’s could go after the owner using the same logic that renters are going after him. He paid you 70% for points for a
reservation that wasn’t delivered. The owner will get the points back (whether they can be used or not is a different issue). If David’s goes under, the bankruptcy will be seeking to get that $ back from you. I don’t they they will care if you tried to work with the renter to reschedule or refunded them directly. If I was an owner, I would return the money and wash my hands of the entire situation. If you can’t refund the $, they you really are at the mercy of working with David’s until they go out of business.

If you need to rent out points, I would only do it in a direct owner/renter agreement that spells out exactly what happens if the reservation can’t be fulfilled.

 

[toniosmom]

When did Disney cancel your reservation. I have a reservation April 25-29 that has not been canceled yet. I am waiting for that to trigger before refunding any money to Davids.

The check-in date was April 2nd and Disney cancelled it on March 31st late in the day. They said they are going to be cancelling reservations week-by-week, so it may be a while before yours is cancelled.

 

[toniosmom]

Let’s say that you actually did cancel the reservation yourself how could anyone ever proof that you did it and not Disney?

I have no idea. Frankly, I don't think it really matters who cancelled it. The resort is closed, period.

 

[meryll83]

The only way I’ll be able to find out if my reservation has been cancelled is if/when David’s tells me. VGC at Disneyland reservations can’t be viewed online, not by me as the renter at least...

 

[toniosmom]

I am really going to hold out for full payment before rebooking, the other option, as someone on here suggested pages back, was to offer to re rent only 70% of the points as that is what has been paid for.

Perhaps I'm missing something here. Has anyone been told that you would no longer get the remaining 30% upon check-in on a new reservation? Or is this an assumption?

I rented out my points and was paid 70%. When those points are re-rented, I only expect the remaining 30% at time of the new check-in date. Its the same points that are being rented. I already have the 70%. That makes me whole. My points are in use and I didn't lose anything. So, why would you hold out for 100% payment before re-renting the SAME points? Then there is no protection for the renter if the owner decides to be a jerk (not that you are) and cancel their reservation. The 30% is supposed to be their assurance that you will keep the reservation available for check-in.

Of course, the scenario would be different if the points are no longer usable.....the owner should not take on that loss. But, I don't think that's the situation you are referring to in your comment.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Perhaps I'm missing something here. Has anyone been told that you would no longer get the remaining 30% upon check-in on a new reservation? Or is this an assumption?

I rented out my points and was paid 70%. When those points are re-rented, I only expect the remaining 30% at time of the new check-in date. Its the same points that are being rented. I already have the 70%. That makes me whole. My points are in use and I didn't lose anything. So, why would you hold out for 100% payment before re-renting the SAME points? Then there is no protection for the renter if the owner decides to be a jerk (not that you are) and cancel their reservation. The 30% is supposed to be their assurance that you will keep the reservation available for check-in.

Of course, the scenario would be different if the points are no longer usable.....the owner should not take on that loss. But, I don't think that's the situation you are referring to in your comment.

If you as an owner is promised 30% at checkin and let say checkin is 4/5. Of course that is not gonna happen as the resort is closed. You are however still contracted to get the 30% at 4/5. If you re-rent IMO David’s should honor the contract and pay you the 30% on the 4/5 and not wait until the new checkin date which could be 10 months from now.

IMO either David’s pay now(original checkin date) or he loses the 70%.

Owners are not renting to help save companies but they are renting to help themselves.

 

[fsjking]

What I can't figure out with his plan is... So it seems his argument for vouchers is that many owners points may expire by the time a renter might be able to rebook with original owner. So if the supply of rentable points drops, is only option is to rob Peter to pay Paul. If he doesn't have enough points to cover the vouchers then what? He just keeps telling renters he is unable at this time to secure a reservation but he will let them know when he can despite no possible way to magically make points appear as he has to pay a new owner from his available funds. This may presume owners with expiring points are willing to refund and lose their points but I'm not sure anyone would actually do that... That is the owner take a hypothetical loss of 5k to make David's whole.

He'll have to use his commission to make up for the shortfall. If no one will rent him points he's going to go into bankruptcy anyway, so the same as if he just goes out of business now.

That is not accurate. David's pays the owner 70% of the amount that he rents the points for. If the rental price of the points is $14.50, he is out $10.15. $10.15 is 53% of the $19 total price paid by the renter. Thus, he is out 153%, not 170%. Note, too, that "Option C" may very well be the result of the owner's points expiring before a booking could be made due to availability, or the decision of David's to not book rentals during this summer when the owner's points may still be valid.

The math and procedure question I'd like to hear answered by David's is what he intends to charge the renters who use a voucher, and what he will pay the owners, given his recent price hikes? David's could create additional margin for themselves by paying owners $13.50 or $14.50 (the original contracted price, as opposed to the new price of $14.50 or $15.50) and charging renters the new price of $19 or $20 for the replacement rental.

You are correct on the 153%/170%. Still 153% is a pretty significant loss. It doesn't really matter why an owner chooses to keep the money in that scenario. David's still has to eat the loss.

On which rate, they will be all new contracts. Owners who booked prior to February would actually get paid more for their points as they'd be under the new price structure. He could change the pricing structure again, but that's the same as those saying the vouchers expire in January. That's looking to make things worse without any actual proof.

“Going bankrupt” is the bar here? What about the renters who saved for 5 years to take a once in a lifetime trip? They are now supposed to be out a trip AND their money? The owner should just suck up the 30% so David can continue? Let’s face it - David brought some of this on himself with the poor contracts. It doesn’t seem like any other travel agencies are in this situation.

They will get another trip. That's the idea behind the voucher. They aren't out anything but time.
The owner doesn't have to suck anything up. They can return the 70% and wash their hands of the entire deal.
There are plenty of agencies in this same spot. As has been quoted in this thread, Stubhub isn't doing refunds either.
And bankruptcy is a much bigger deal than losing a vacation or having to pay the maintenance fees that you contracted to do when you bought your timeshare. I get people are pissed about the situation, but get some perspective here.

i assume cancellations from Disney will be coming in a day or two. They aren’t an exception to the governor’s order.

Cancellations are on a rolling basis within 7 days of the check in date. They covered that in the closed until further notice PR. The governors order doesn't change that. We know they'll be cancelled, but the official cancellations will be on that schedule. I'm sure a lot of that is to make it more manageable on the call centers.

I am thinking about saying to David’s keep the 30%, and walking away. Would like a clean break.

Just know that if it goes into bankruptcy, theres nothing that says that the courts can't come after the 70%. You may want to think they won't or can't, but they can. They only way you get a clean break is to send the 70% back.

I have no idea. Frankly, I don't think it really matters who cancelled it. The resort is closed, period.

Contractually it matters. The contract doesn't allow the owner to cancel the reservation under any circumstances. An owner cancelling the reservation is one of the things that actually spells out that a renter can get a refund. If DVC cancels it, it gets us into this legal quandary we've been beating on. That may not apply in your case, but it matters to others considering cancelling before DVC does it.

 

[toniosmom]

If you as an owner is promised 30% at checkin and let say checkin is 4/5. Of course that is not gonna happen as the resort is closed. You are however still contracted to get the 30% at 4/5. If you re-rent IMO David’s should honor the contract and pay you the 30% on the 4/5 and not wait until the new checkin date which could be 10 months from now.

IMO either David’s pay now(original checkin date) or he loses the 70%.

Owners are not renting to help save companies but they are renting to help themselves.

I guess we all need to do what is best for our own circumstances. For me, I can wait for the new check-in date for the 30%. I thankfully still have my job. If I was no longer employed, I may feel differently. I reached out to my renter, who was very nervous about losing money and also wanted to rebook. I was glad to be able to reassure them that they don't have to wait for David's in order to get it done. We are all very stressed out about so many important things. Vacation dates are minor, but now its one less thing my renter has to worry about. In a time where we have so little control, its something I was able to DO for someone to make their life a little easier.

 

[Galun]

If you as an owner is promised 30% at checkin and let say checkin is 4/5. Of course that is not gonna happen as the resort is closed. You are however still contracted to get the 30% at 4/5. If you re-rent IMO David’s should honor the contract and pay you the 30% on the 4/5 and not wait until the new checkin date which could be 10 months from now.

IMO either David’s pay now(original checkin date) or he loses the 70%.

Owners are not renting to help save companies but they are renting to help themselves.

This is like a supplier demanding strict payment terms during this unprecedented situation from a distributor, to the point of possibly pushing the distributor out of business.

As an owner, I definitely want to see them survive. I used them and gave them their commission so I didn't have to deal with finding renters to being with. I think a vibrant rental market enabled by brokers like David's help the resale value for all owners.