Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[momincolorado]

I am so incredibly frustrated with the poor communication on their end. It takes days for a response, which is almost always canned and does not address issues raised in previous emails. That, combined with them pulling the reviews from their Facebook page has me freaked out. I think we will be looking into filing a dispute or moving forward with our insurance tomorrow. The ironic part of all of this is we are insured and covered for this, but their choice to publicly bend on the no refunds policy has us stuck having to try and get our money back before we can make our claim.

I know I’ve posted our gripes many times already, but the pulling the reviews is really shady, IMO. I think we’re done waiting and giving a chance. Oh and if we were on the owner side, there is no way I would be giving back that 70% knowing it is going to the travel credit. I’m pretty annoyed they are funding the travel credits with money the owner is sending back.

Look at the comments on their FB page. 20 mins ago, there were comments letting renters know that David’s is asking owners to pay back the money, people asking if pursuing disputes with cc companies is the best course of action if David’s hanging on to the money, etc. These comments have all now been deleted and then David’s posted their usual “stick to the script” response.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Look at the comments on their FB page. 20 mins ago, there were comments letting renters know that David’s is asking owners to pay back the money, people asking if pursuing disputes with cc companies is the best course of action if David’s hanging on to the money, etc. These comments have all now been deleted and then David’s posted their usual “stick to the script” response.

Yup, over the course of the last few days I have watched anything not completely complementary get deleted on the updates they posted. Even a negative review, before they took them away entirely. I didn’t think you could even do that on Facebook, otherwise what’s the point of them?

 

[starry_solo]

Yup, over the course of the last few days I have watched anything not completely complementary get deleted on the updates they posted. Even a negative review, before they took them away entirely. I didn’t think you could even do that on Facebook, otherwise what’s the point of them?

Page owners can delete any comments made on their page.

If anyone wants to refund renters directly, make sure they sign a document that releases the owners of those points from liability (owner only, not anyone else).

 

[DGsAtBLT]

Page owners can delete any comments made on their page.

If anyone wants to refund renters directly, make sure they sign a document that releases the owners of those points from liability (owner only, not anyone else).

The page I knew. I dont know why I thought reviews were different.

 

[DebbieB]

not yet. I am still dealing with him on a rental where the renters checked out early (voluntarily) and want a refund. After that is sorted, I am getting out of the November rental.

Did you get the points back? Can you use them? If not, I wouldn't refund.

 

[foreUT]

It occurs to me that David's is even more liable to the owners than I originally thought.

When an owner signs up, he gives David's the run down of the points: use year, and whether points are banked, current, or borrowed and in which quantities. By choosing to use banked points that would have been at the end of their use year, he created the risk of those points being lost. Because he's been doing this for so long, and is a DVC member himself, he clearly understood the risk. I guess he dismissed the risk because all the agreements say "No Refunds". With a no refund policy, points being lost is a non-issue. But, now they are lost. Because he chose to match the owner up with a renter at the end of the use year, David's is responsible for the list points and owes the owners the full payment.

This is why I have not had a lot of sympathy for brokers. After being in the business for more than a decade, every possible nuance of renting points and the life of those points should have been understood and taken into account. UY logistics was the broker's job, not the other parties.

 

[foreUT]

not yet. I am still dealing with him on a rental where the renters checked out early (voluntarily) and want a refund. After that is sorted, I am getting out of the November rental.

OMG, I would never refund that money. Staying and then claiming a refund is very close to defrauding an innkeeper as defined in FL. Was it just a portion of the stay the renter wanted refunded, or the total amount? I wouldn't refund a penny, either way.

 

[jodistrock]

We rented when we went to Hilton Head March 2018. We left early because the weather was horrific. I did not ask for a refund for myself but did encourage the owner to call to see about getting points back. I don't know if they ever did... the pools were closed so there was NOTHING to do there. We left early for FL, where it was MUCH warmer!

 

[cvjw]

OMG, I would never refund that money. Staying and then claiming a refund is very close to defrauding an innkeeper as defined in FL. Was it just a portion of the stay the renter wanted refunded, or the total amount? I wouldn't refund a penny, either way.

The renters voluntarily left early, the resorts were still open. Then, wanted a refund for the nights they weren’t there. Even though all my points are gone. I told them no way. I have gotten several emails from David’s - the renters are trying to deal with the beach club and see if they can get the points returned And then get a refund. It just never ends

 

[Lewisc]

The renters voluntarily left early, the resorts were still open. Then, wanted a refund for the nights they weren’t there. Even though all my points are gone. I told them no way. I have gotten several emails from David’s - the renters are trying to deal with the beach club and see if they can get the points returned And then get a refund. It just never ends

Did David's pay you 30% when they checked in?

 

[MICKIMINI]

David‘s did not send out the group email to me. When I wanted to rent points, he sent me the rentals directly. And asked would I make the reservations. Guess it was because I rented so many points thru him.

That was how it was with me as well...I would just get a phone call or an email and make the reservation.

 

[jodistrock]

OMG, I would never refund that money. Staying and then claiming a refund is very close to defrauding an innkeeper as defined in FL. Was it just a portion of the stay the renter wanted refunded, or the total amount? I wouldn't refund a penny, either way.

The renters voluntarily left early, the resorts were still open. Then, wanted a refund for the nights they weren’t there. Even though all my points are gone. I told them no way. I have gotten several emails from David’s - the renters are trying to deal with the beach club and see if they can get the points returned And then get a refund. It just never ends

We also left a Washington DC hotel 1 night early & they would only give a partial refund for the night we wanted to drop. We voluntarily left. We didn't expect anything. They have to make a living too. Now, if they would have spoke with you & you decided to do that, that is a completely different scenario. If they just left early, then that's on them.

 

[Maddiesmum03]

The renters voluntarily left early, the resorts were still open. Then, wanted a refund for the nights they weren’t there. Even though all my points are gone. I told them no way. I have gotten several emails from David’s - the renters are trying to deal with the beach club and see if they can get the points returned And then get a refund. It just never ends

You have fulfilled your part in the contract, it was their choice to leave early. Do not refund even if you get points returned, which is doubtful I would have thought. There is no way you should feel obligated to do anything else.

 

[cvjw]

You have fulfilled your part in the contract, it was their choice to leave early. Do not refund even if you get points returned, which is doubtful I would have thought. There is no way you should feel obligated to do anything else.

So agree with you. Just ready for this relationship with David’s to be over.

 

[TheWheel]

You have fulfilled your part in the contract, it was their choice to leave early. Do not refund even if you get points returned, which is doubtful I would have thought. There is no way you should feel obligated to do anything else.

100% agree, at that point the resort was open and renters were there and left. I'd have done the same but would have had no expectation for a refund in that scenario.

 

[SherylLC]

There's a lot of your argument that ignores that any contract (except for those which are plainly illegal, such as a contract to kill someone) between two adult parties is binding on both parties, no matter what happens.

When the owner made the reservation, and kept the reservation open for the member, he sold something of value. The value of those points could be reduced to zero if the points are expiring soon, or be reduced greatly if the points are expiring in 2020 (because there are few rooms available between September and January).

The renter has paid money for a reservation. That money was paid to a broker. The broker collects $4.50 per point for his commission and pays the owner $10.15 per point immediately. The broker then holds $3.35 per point until the day of check-in, when it is then released to the owner.

The key problem here is that the contracts do not have a Force Majeure clause, which would state what would happen in the event the contract becomes impossible to fulfill due to the actions of a third party.

One could claim that the renter should get their money back in full. The broker would say, "But I spent time and money to make this match up, so I should be paid!". The owner would say, "I rented those points when they had value, and now they have none, so I should be paid!". Because the broker is holding the $3.35 per point, and has already collected his $4.50 per point commission, and has a "no refund" contract with the renter, he believes he is in the driver's seat.

But, ultimately, the broker is the one responsible. It is a tenet of law that the person who drafts the contract is ultimately responsible for its content, even if it works against him because of his own incompetence in drafting it. By failing to have a Force Majeure event, even though it was completely foreseeable that one would be needed (Hurricanes and 9/11 shut down Disney in the past), David's has exposed themselves to liability on both sides: refunds for the renters, and full compensation for the owners. They rented reservations which, through no fault of the renter or owner could not be fulfilled. I'm sure David's knows this, so they are scrambling to re-book as many clients as they can, and trying to keep as much cash in the bank to cover the coming charge backs from people who cannot be accommodated with a re-book.

I see major changes coming to every broker's contract due to this event, and changes as to how these brokers operate.

I saw somewhere that David's is encouraging owners to "follow your conscience" and refund the money (to David's). I found that language somewhere between offensive and despicable. Does David's have no conscience? Many owners will not have those points to use since they will be expiring. I also believe David's should be paying out the 30% to owners, as contractually promised.

Would a class action lawsuit be possible?

 

[DGsAtBLT]

I saw somewhere that David's is encouraging owners to "follow your conscience" and refund the money (to David's). I found that language somewhere between offensive and despicable. Does David's have no conscience? Many owners will not have those points to use since they will be expiring. I also believe David's should be paying out the 30% to owners, as contractually promised.

Would a class action lawsuit be possible?

That is very condescending language from a company that would have no good reason not to pass that money right on to renters (except their own interests) instead of holding it as a credit for future use with an entirely different owner.

 

[Sandisw]

That is very condescending language from a company that would have no good reason not to pass that money right on to renters (except their own interests) instead of holding it as a credit for future use with an entirely different owner.

I agree, The entire thing is leaving me with a bad feeling. I won’t use them again. But, I’m not going to leave the renter without a room since by August it should be open.

Getting money back and then not returning to renter is just wrong,

 

[McCrae]

I was happy to see if I can help the family that rented my points if I could. I don’t feel any obligation to provide points to another person. I am not sure if I will agree to my points being Re-rented. I would rather draw a line under this and move on. It’s a lot of extra hassle trying to match up points/dates etc. I would have a very different approach if David’s were sticking to the contracted payment dates. David might not survive and any Promise of future payments will be worthless.
My offer to rebook or transfer points was not accepted.

 

[Lewisc]

OMG, I would never refund that money. Staying and then claiming a refund is very close to defrauding an innkeeper as defined in FL. Was it just a portion of the stay the renter wanted refunded, or the total amount? I wouldn't refund a penny, either way.

I know many posters in this thread are "pro-owner" Your statement is way over the top,hopefully meant as hyperbole.

A person checks out early for valid reasons. It's certainly not very close to fraud to ask if a partial refund is due. It's not close to fraud to ask the broker if a partial refund is due. It's not close to fraud to even as the member (owner) if a partial refund is due.

To be clear I don't think the renter is entitled to anything other then a, polite, sorry but no response.