Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[meryll83]

My bank told me to tell them I did not accept the credit and that I was taking it further through them.

I left it slightly more open than a flat out decline and replied...

“As you advised me in your previous email on XXXX that the reservation I have paid for no longer exists, the options below aren’t both valid and therefore unfair.

As previously advised in my email from XXXX, given you have not provided a refund as requested, I am taking this further through my credit provider.“

Had an email response from David’s today, for anyone following along...

“Thank you for the email.

To ensure that all guests are treated fair and equally all guests impacted by the closure of Disney Vacation Club Resorts are being issued a Travel Credit. As previously advised, David’s Vacation Club has made the decision to offer a full credit to our guests, on terms and conditions which we believe are fair in the circumstances. We intend to make this offer consistently to all of our guests and accordingly are not able to make an exception in this case.

If you have any questions please let us know and we will do our best to assist.”

Just going to wait it out to see what my bank say now...

 

[cmrdgrs]

Maybe the price of such insurance should be built into the price paid for the reservation? I think we are all in agreement that the Broker should have had some sort of insurance to cover situations such as this, especially when you consider the cut they take.

I'm definitely in agreement, but the way they structure their Agreements/Contracts as "non-refundable" why would anyone think a broker had this type of coverage? I understand why people use a broker in theory and I have considered it myself, but current pandemic aside, renting your points is so easy to do yourself, and I usually get over broker prices, so why would I give up that money to have and pay my MFs with or spend in other ways? Why hand it to a broker? No reply necessary. I realize I'm veering off topic. Maybe I should open a separate thread on this topic.

ETA: It seems like several mods are following this thread too. If I wanted to open a thread on the above, its not obvious to me where it should be placed. A little help from someone?

 

[banzai75]

Had an email response from David’s today, for anyone following along...

“Thank you for the email.

To ensure that all guests are treated fair and equally all guests impacted by the closure of Disney Vacation Club Resorts are being issued a Travel Credit. As previously advised, David’s Vacation Club has made the decision to offer a full credit to our guests, on terms and conditions which we believe are fair in the circumstances. We intend to make this offer consistently to all of our guests and accordingly are not able to make an exception in this case.

If you have any questions please let us know and we will do our best to assist.”

Just going to wait it out to see what my bank say now...

had similar email this am with this added in

As it relates to point 14 in our terms and conditions, our intention is to provide flexibility in the Terms and Conditions if adjustments or amendments need to be made. The intention is not for malice but to continue to provide the service to guests. For example, it will allow us to assess the direction provided by health experts as well as government officials when considering extending the life of the Travel Credit. We had previously indicated the Travel Credit would be viable for 15 months we have since increased the longevity of the Travel Credit to 24 months.

 

[cmrdgrs]

I was thinking about this the other day -- someone stated that David had indicated that the contract was "frustrated" if David considers the contract frustrated, doesn't that mean that the contract is null and void for both parties?

 

[Noodlez]

Can I ask, was this through an insurance company? Or was this through the Broker? I know one Broker offered a cancel for any reason option on their rentals that charged more PP to the renter.

This is just our normal annual travel insurance, but we're in the UK. It's not a cancel for any reason policy, however pandemics are covered.

 

[disneypharm]

had similar email this am with this added in

As it relates to point 14 in our terms and conditions, our intention is to provide flexibility in the Terms and Conditions if adjustments or amendments need to be made. The intention is not for malice but to continue to provide the service to guests. For example, it will allow us to assess the direction provided by health experts as well as government officials when considering extending the life of the Travel Credit. We had previously indicated the Travel Credit would be viable for 15 months we have since increased the longevity of the Travel Credit to 24 months.

If they want to help the renter, they should add to their #7 (see below) that they are willing to provide the same benefit to the renter as other Disney guests with cash reservations (eg, in case of another closure by Disney, return the money that Disney has to the renter and not pocket it!!).

#7 "Credit can be used for any service offered by David's Vacation Club Rentals including but not limited to Point Rentals, Cash Bookings at Disney owned resorts, Cruise Bookings or Adventure by Disney bookings."

 

[disneypharm]

This is just our normal annual travel insurance, but we're in the UK. It's not a cancel for any reason policy, however pandemics are covered.

My trip insurance (from US) does not mention any pandemic exclusions, so not sure how they can all of a sudden say it is not included. However, it clearly states that quarantines are included!! Not sure what that means!!

 

[Bing Showei]

Disney closed the resorts because the parks were closed. And that as an owner who picked Disney to make these decision I was responsible for it.

If David's are saying owners have to return the money because Disney acted on behalf owners and canceled the reservation, thereby owners failed to deliver on their end of the agreement, then renters are due a refund because owners failed to "honor" their agreement responsibilities.

Every renter should leverage this policy decision to argue for a chargeback with their credit card company.

As we have a contractual obligation to pay your DVC booking owner for the use of their points, we therefore have a no-refunds policy, as once the funds have been paid to the DVC booking owner, they are no longer in our control to be able to provide a refund.

If David’s are telling renters “no refund” because the owners didn’t cancel but that Disney made the reservation unavailable, then owners have fulfilled their obligations.

Every owner should keep their 70% regardless of their point status.

David's seem determined to have it both ways.

The intention is not for malice but to continue to provide the service to guests. For example, it will allow us to assess the direction provided by health experts as well as government officials when considering extending the life of the Travel Credit.

How is anyone supposed to believe this? Again and again David’s has proven they are only looking out for their own survival. If there was ever a genuine concern for the renters and owners they have profited off of for the last 15 years, they would not repeatedly shift risk onto those same owners and renters with every policy making decision

 

[Amymouse13]

I got my voucher email today, did not respond. They have been notified about my chargeback from CC a few days ago. Took Citi nearly a month to contact them and they have until June 14 to respond. Boa biz cc sent forms weeks ago. Has anyone actually accepted the voucher??

 

[Dracula]

I was thinking about this the other day -- someone stated that David had indicated that the contract was "frustrated" if David considers the contract frustrated, doesn't that mean that the contract is null and void for both parties?

David's opinion of the contract - that it is frustrated, impossible to execute, void, null etc - is valuable only to David. As an executed agreement between multiple parties, the contract can only be invalidated, or amended, by consent from all parties, or by a court of law or arbitrator. It is very possible an Ontario court would find the contract to be frustrated, and declare it void albeit not ab initio, but from the time it became frustrated - which means the owner would not receive the 30% remainder from David.

 

[cmrdgrs]

David's opinion of the contract - that it is frustrated, impossible to execute, void, null etc - is valuable only to David. As an executed agreement between multiple parties, the contract can only be invalidated, or amended, by consent from all parties, or by a court of law or arbitrator. It is very possible an Ontario court would find the contract to be frustrated, and declare it void albeit not ab initio, but from the time it became frustrated - which means the owner would not receive the 30% remainder from David.

If David is taking actions based on the contract being frustrated, why can't an owner take action based on the contract being frustrated?

If David has stated that the contract is frustrated, and assuming that it is, the "value" I see to owners is the potential for those owners that are coming up on banking deadlines to have the ability to cancel the reservations they are holding and bank those points if that is possible for them.

 

[Amymouse13]

I got my voucher email today, did not respond. They have been notified about my chargeback from CC a few days ago. Took Citi nearly a month to contact them and they have until June 14 to respond. Boa biz cc sent forms weeks ago. Has anyone actually accepted the voucher??

Just kidding, they retracted my voucher until my cc dispute is settled.

 

[cmrdgrs]

Just kidding, they retracted my voucher until my cc dispute is settled.

So David replied to you letting you know that your credit card dispute is being responded to by them, and have notified you that until the dispute is settled your voucher has been retracted?

 

[Dracula]

If David is taking actions based on the contract being frustrated, why can't an owner take action based on the contract being frustrated?

If David has stated that the contract is frustrated, and assuming that it is, the "value" I see to owners is the potential for those owners that are coming up on banking deadlines to have the ability to cancel the reservations they are holding and bank those points if that is possible for them.

I would think frustration only occurs when the contracted reservation is canceled by Disney. An owner proactively canceling the reservation in anticipation of a Disney closure would be in breach and, according to the contract terms, liable not just for the 70% downpayment but also all other costs incurred and claimed by the renter (park tickets, dining reservation, airfare, lost wages - the sky is the limit). There is no good reason why any owner would expose themselves to uncapped liability, just to preserve 30% of the points' value (assuming the 70% downpayment is not refunded to David).

 

[cmrdgrs]

I would think frustration only occurs when the contracted reservation is canceled by Disney. An owner proactively canceling the reservation in anticipation of a Disney closure would be in breach and, according to the contract terms, liable not just for the 70% downpayment but also all other costs incurred and claimed by the renter (park tickets, dining reservation, airfare, lost wages - the sky is the limit). There is no good reason why any owner would expose themselves to uncapped liability, just to preserve 30% of the points' value (assuming the 70% downpayment is not refunded to David).

I can see your point. Hadn't thought of it that way. Gosh this really is a mess. I feel bad for renters and owners caught up in this circumstance.

I guess the real sticking point is owners giving back the 70% and renters not getting back any funds for the vacation they paid for. The voucher is a complete mess for renters. IMO, I would not accept that voucher no way. I hope renters are successful with their chargebacks.

 

[Amymouse13]

So David replied to you letting you know that your credit card dispute is being responded to by them, and have notified you that until the dispute is settled your voucher has been retracted?

Pretty much... Lol.

 

[minthorne]

I can't wait for the Netflix documentary series on David's Vacation Club in 2023.

 

[disneypharm]

Just checked my days on David's calculator that shows I have to pay $300 more for the same week next year. So, if there is closure next year, I could be paying $300 more in addition to what I have paid and lose it all because of the new contract stating that no refunds. Wow!!!

 

[Dracula]

I can see your point. Hadn't thought of it that way. Gosh this really is a mess. I feel bad for renters and owners caught up in this circumstance.

I guess the real sticking point is owners giving back the 70% and renters not getting back any funds for the vacation they paid for. The voucher is a complete mess for renters. IMO, I would not accept that voucher no way. I hope renters are successful with their chargebacks.

Some recent info that I would rather not disclose suggests that very few owners with canceled reservations are returning the 70%. On the other hand, if renters are successful with their chargebacks, every day that Disney continues to cancel reservations reduces David's chances to remain in business - so you essentially hope for David to go out of business. Can a mechanism be found by which everyone involved (owners, renters, David) shares in the loss?

 

[banzai75]

Is there anyway to find out if your reservation was cancelled by Disney or the owner? If I called DVC would they know or would it just say cancelled.