Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[Sandisw]

Huge changes are not required. A simple and quick fix can easily be made to the existing contract. Making sure that renters are better informed about the no refunds clause and making sure it’s not open to interpretation.

I believe that a no refunds clause, with this situation being one that still results in nothing, will be a harder sell moving forward..which is why I think he included the voucher option,

 

[JenniferYoung44]

If the contracts are frustrated then everyone should be put back where they were before / renters receive refunds / owners receive points - period

But that’s not possible because points are time sensitive. in order to put the owner back to the exact same position as they were 11 months ago when a reservation was made you’d have to add 11 months to the points expiration and David can’t do that.

 

[AquaDame]

David's refused to even ask the owner. So, just a head's up.

This is good to know, thank you!

I am in the same position with an October rental (I am an owner). I agree with your decision to hold them to the contract if the resort is open and I would expect my 30%. It would be the same situation as if Covid never happened.
If Davids wants to do something different with them and you forgo your additional 30%, you would keep the points as compensation, would you also keep the 70% you already received. It seems, if you give Davids the 70% back you are going above and beyond, going to a lot of trouble to held David out when he's doing nothing to help you.

Yeah, I've had more days to sleep on it, and in the last couple days all our other plans, events, trips, etc for the year have been cancelled by the event organizers, so I'm certainly feeling more defeated in general. All large gatherings in my state are cancelled until September, so please forgive me if I disagree that it's my choice & "it would be the same situation as if Covid never happened" once the hotels at WDW open back up.

To us the room was just location and benefit for everything outside the room - or I could go anywhere and wouldn't be paying the Disney premium. Til now, non-refundable to me meant if something happens in my life and we can't go my money is gone. Which I remain fine with. Not, the destination itself is changed but hey, you can technically go... Never would I have thought when I booked last year that my trip may well fall during a phased reopening during a pandemic (what will be available still TBD). My problem is thinking of it from the renter's POV rather than from the owner's POV which is you're providing the room, done. In the end I'll live and learn.

 

[McCrae]

So, basically adding the paragraph he has added to the voucher contract: "In the event of a global pandemic, natural disaster, force Majeure or any other event outside the reasonable control of David's Vacation Club Rentals, this Credit remains non-refundable and no modification, cancelations or rebooking will be permitted."
Right? Well, that's crazy! I hope no renter signs on a contract that basically tells you to give them money but no guarantee to give you anything!! Yes, I know you keep saying on this thread that this is normal in sports industry!! I think this should not be acceptable in any industry, especially travel industry!

The problem with David’s contract was the lack of clarity. This type of clause is not unusual and people are happy to sign them. If you don’t like the clause walk away or buy insurance that covers your concerns.

 

[McCrae]

I believe that a no refunds clause, with this situation being one that still results in nothing, will be a harder sell moving forward..which is why I think he included the voucher option,

I agree it will stop some people from wanting to rent and the market might become smaller. It does however remove any ambiguity about the risks a renter is taking.

 

[McCrae]

The problem with this is who is going to want to rent a DVC room knowing they could lose thousands? That is why the language on the new contracts in my opinion stick it to the owners. The secondary rental market is going to see big changes with owners and renters not wanting to rent under the current and new conditions. Going forward will be interesting

I think you will be surprised how many people will take a risk to get a discount. Going to Florida in Hurricane season is a risk yet people do it every year. A lot of people will view what has happened as a one off and unlikely to be repeated again in our life time.
The risks can of course be mitigated with a good insurance policy that allows cancellation for any reason.
One thing that I think will change is that people will look at insurance policies in more detail and what they cover.

 

[CraigInPA]

What i have noticed by looking at other sites that rent DVC points is that all of the contracts in the fine print now stick it to the owners of the points for making the renters whole by having to refund the money they received if an event like this happens again. I would be willing to bet this is being driven by the credit cards companies so that they are not on the hook for paying out for credit cards protection to their customers and if a business wants to accept C.C.s then they have to have this language in the contract.

More likely, this change is being driven by the brokers themselves, who want to safeguard their business from a situation like David's faces today. This should make any Owner question the value of the broker's "matchmaking" service at 25% of the total paid by the Renter.

As an Owner, I would never rent points under the condition that I would have to give a refund in full for points which became worthless through no fault of mine.

 

[Bearval]

I think you will be surprised how many people will take a risk to get a discount. Going to Florida in Hurricane season is a risk yet people do it every year. A lot of people will view what has happened as a one off and unlikely to be repeated again in our life time.
The risks can of course be mitigated with a good insurance policy that allows cancellation for any reason.
One thing that I think will change is that people will look at insurance policies in more detail and what they cover.

There is one DVC point rental place that offers their own cancel for any reason insurance that pays out on a reduced sliding scale. The real joke here is if you read the owners contract you still are obligated to rent your points or return all of the money you received. So if the renter cancels the week before you still have to let the company rent the number of points or you must pay them back. I asked what if the points are going to expire before you can rent them, their answer, you must return payment.

 

[MIDisFan]

If he does this, he basically demonstrates that the value of his service is essentially nil. That is not a strong marketing strategy

Judging by the thousands of responses in this thread and thousands more on other well known forums, I'd say he's already demonstrated the lack of value in his services moving forward. I think he is destroying his supply chain with this new contract. Owners take on the majority of the risk? No thank you.

 

[Bearval]

More likely, this change is being driven by the brokers themselves, who want to safeguard their business from a situation like David's faces today. This should make any Owner question the value of the broker's "matchmaking" service at 25% of the total paid by the Renter.

As an Owner, I would never rent points under the condition that I would have to give a refund in full for points which became worthless through no fault of mine.

I agree.Also as an owner if I needed points if would try and find another owner here who would do a transfer as opposed to a renting of the points so I would have some control on making changes if need be

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Judging by the thousands of responses in this thread and thousands more on other well known forums, I'd say he's already demonstrated the lack of value in his services moving forward. I think he is destroying his supply chain with this new contract. Owners take on the majority of the risk? No thank you.

I mean, owners already took on the majority of risk by owning. See the hundreds of threads about owners pissed that their points were going to expire because they booked travel in the last 4 months of their use year. Taking on the majority of risk is part of ownership. So I think you may be right in the short term, but long term I think people will continue to ignore risk just as they always do.

WDW has also been opened for about 582 months I believe. Two of those months have resulted in a total closure. That's less than 0.35% of the time this clause would come into place. My guess is once this pandemic is over, people will quickly forget just as they always do.

Fwiw, I'm not suggesting people forget and automatically go back and use these services, I'm just suggesting it is human nature.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I mean, owners already took on the majority of risk by owning. See the hundreds of threads about owners pissed that their points were going to expire because they booked travel in the last 4 months of their use year. Taking on the majority of risk is part of ownership. So I think you may be right in the short term, but long term I think people will continue to ignore risk just as they always do.

WDW has also been opened for about 582 months I believe. Two of those months have resulted in a total closure. That's less than 0.35% of the time this clause would come into place. My guess is once this pandemic is over, people will quickly forget just as they always do.

Fwiw, I'm not suggesting people forget and automatically go back and use these services, I'm just suggesting it is human nature.

I agree that owners already took on most risks by owning. That’s also why I think it’s fair that renters also take some of the risks when they get a big discount on the rooms.

Some renters wants to have the cake and eat it too.

 

[VeroGuy]

Also remember he limited the ability of the owners to mitigate their losses by telling them not to cancel. Some owners at the time they did this still could have canceled and banked their points. (DVC later allowed this to happen anyway) this IMHO was only done for his self interest since the renter would be due a refund and the owner could have salvaged their points but the agency would have not made any commission. He would have been better off telling the owners who wanted to cancel to do so and get the money refunded.

This is what really irks me the most. In doing this IMO he proved that the voucher isn’t worth the webpage is was booked on, lol. He has proven that he is only acting in his own best interest and if someone were to bring this to the BBB and show where the company specifically directed owners to not cancel so that he would not have to give a refund, I’m not sure that would sit well with them in regards to his standing as a trustworthy company.

 

[Bearval]

I mean, owners already took on the majority of risk by owning. See the hundreds of threads about owners pissed that their points were going to expire because they booked travel in the last 4 months of their use year. Taking on the majority of risk is part of ownership. So I think you may be right in the short term, but long term I think people will continue to ignore risk just as they always do.

WDW has also been opened for about 582 months I believe. Two of those months have resulted in a total closure. That's less than 0.35% of the time this clause would come into place. My guess is once this pandemic is over, people will quickly forget just as they always do.

Fwiw, I'm not suggesting people forget and automatically go back and use these services, I'm just suggesting it is human nature.

I think what will happen going forward is that these services will have way more people wanting to rent than there will be of owners wanting their points rented out. The new language of the contracts sticks it to the owners so if someone consistently has too many excess points they may look to sell those contracts as opposed to renting them out. Also more people will look to rent them out by themselves. This in turn will eventually drive up the price per point for renters since demand will outstrip supply.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

I think what will happen going forward is that these services will have way more people wanting to rent than there will be of owners wanting their points rented out. The new language of the contracts sticks it to the owners so if someone consistently has too many excess points they may look to sell those contracts as opposed to renting them out. Also more people will look to rent them out by themselves. This in turn will eventually drive up the price per point for renters since demand will outstrip supply.

That is definitely a possibility, and maybe even probable. Granted, I still think people have short memories. Taking a step back, the risk level is actually really small. If you rent out 100 points at $20 per, your risking about $2000 (a lot of money but in the grand scheme, most DVC owners would be able to absorb that loss) with a really low probability of failure.

 

[MIDisFan]

I mean, owners already took on the majority of risk by owning. See the hundreds of threads about owners pissed that their points were going to expire because they booked travel in the last 4 months of their use year. Taking on the majority of risk is part of ownership. So I think you may be right in the short term, but long term I think people will continue to ignore risk just as they always do.

WDW has also been opened for about 582 months I believe. Two of those months have resulted in a total closure. That's less than 0.35% of the time this clause would come into place. My guess is once this pandemic is over, people will quickly forget just as they always do.

Fwiw, I'm not suggesting people forget and automatically go back and use these services, I'm just suggesting it is human nature.

Good thing DVC extended those points. David's advertised NO RISK to owners when soliciting points and the contract was heavily favored towards the owner. Using a broker in the past provided a level of security for owners. Non refundable for any reason other than an action by the owner. Yes, I understand your stance is the action was simply purchasing DVC. I disagree with that assumption and doubt he would have any success with that argument.

The million dollar question is will people forget soon enough for them to weather the storm. For the 40+ employees working at David's, I hope so. My heart goes out to them and I'm sure some of them are even participating in these threads throughout the various forums.

For myself and my circle or friends/owners, It will be never. We will handle things on our own. Same risk, higher reward, and control of the level of customer service.

 

[keishashadow]

I mean, owners already took on the majority of risk by owning. See the hundreds of threads about owners pissed that their points were going to expire because they booked travel in the last 4 months of their use year. Taking on the majority of risk is part of ownership. So I think you may be right in the short term, but long term I think people will continue to ignore risk just as they always do.

I was not thrilled to pull the plug yesterday on a 2nd trip during this pandemic. Banking window was approaching. At least DVC was agreeable to reinstating the 2020 UY points back for me.

I’ve only been in a situation where I had to rent my points a couple of times & only would consider renting to another member. Makes things easier as we all know the drill...my points, my choice.

There is an inherent risk on both sides of a TS rental from an owner. For the owner (guest will trash the room or run up other unpaid charges) & renter (the owner will default).

It’s an awful, unexpected situation for renters who had to be wildly excited to be able to afford staying at a deluxe villa (for nearly the same Price as an on-site value resort). If anything, I’d file a chargeback on my credit card & hope for the best since the services weren’t rendered.

I’m a gambler but not inclined to rent another member’s points. When I run out of my own points, I revert to rentals for Wyndham Bonnet Creek but always thru Vacation Strategy. Cancelled my Easter booking there outside of their stated cancellation period, didn’t purchase their insurance. This was well before Disney closed the parks. They issued me a non-expiring credit for my funds which was much appreciated.

For the cancelled trip I did have cruise-related trip insurance purchased in 2019. It would’ve covered all components of my trip except any TS components. The same as all the other cruise TI polices i’ve Had in the past. FYI Starting in 2020 you have to purchase the pricier cancel for any reason sort or pandemic related issues aren’t covered under traditional policies.

I understand that the DVC professional rental sites want to shield themself, but so do those owners who used their services who likely never expected this might backfire upon them via posting their points in good faith.

I smell a class action suit from one or both sides of the fence against the brokerage agencies.

 

[Bearval]

That is definitely a possibility, and maybe even probable. Granted, I still think people have short memories. Taking a step back, the risk level is actually really small. If you rent out 100 points at $20 per, your risking about $2000 (a lot of money but in the grand scheme, most DVC owners would be able to absorb that loss) with a really low probability of failure.

I would rather bank the points , offer them to friends or family at the cost of the yearly dues or gift them to friends or family or donate them to my church and take a tax write off for the value of a cash room equivalent. For arguments sake say 100 points get you 5 nights for a studio valued at $600.00 a night that is 3k that I can write off. I much rather do one of those options instead of signing a convoluted contract.

That is definitely a possibility, and maybe even probable. Granted, I still think people have short memories. Taking a step back, the risk level is actually really small. If you rent out 100 points at $20 per, your risking about $2000 (a lot of money but in the grand scheme, most DVC owners would be able to absorb that loss) with a really low probability of failure.

 

[Bearval]

Good thing DVC extended those points. David's advertised NO RISK to owners when soliciting points and the contract was heavily favored towards the owner. Using a broker in the past provided a level of security for owners. Non refundable for any reason other than an action by the owner. Yes, I understand your stance is the action was simply purchasing DVC. I disagree with that assumption and doubt he would have any success with that argument.

The million dollar question is will people forget soon enough for them to weather the storm. For the 40+ employees working at David's, I hope so. My heart goes out to them and I'm sure some of them are even participating in these threads throughout the various forums.

For myself and my circle or friends/owners, It will be never. We will handle things on our own. Same risk, higher reward, and control of the level of customer service.

I would like to meet that renter or owner who gets screwed out of $2,000.00 + that will soon forget.

 

[Bearval]

I would rather bank the points , offer them to friends or family at the cost of the yearly dues or gift them to friends or family or donate them to my church and take a tax write off for the value of a cash room equivalent. For arguments sake say 100 points get you 5 nights for a studio valued at $600.00 a night that is 3k that I can write off. I much rather do one of those options instead of signing a convoluted contract.

I would like to meet that owner who gets screwed out of $2,000.00 + that will soon forget.