Davids asking an owner to cancel the reservation

[Bing Showei]

Any owners have Davids contact you asking you to cancel the reservation so that I can provide a proof of cancellation to the renter to file an insurance claim?

They promised to pay me the remaining 30% due in 3 days, and my points will go into the holding account which is pretty much useless to me since we won't be going to Disney anytime soon. This is only in email and not in any type of agreement.

Just curious if you got paid your 30% and if they came after you for the original 70%? The contract I signed when I first rented the points before covid clearly says that I should not cancel the reservation under any circumstances and if I do that would be the only reason I would need to refund the 70% downpayment.

Thanks in advance for anyone who can help. Just seems like a last second change with only a few days to go. I want to help the renter.

It’s very thoughtful of you to be willing to do this. As an added measure of protection, I would recommend you call in, speak to a representative at David’s, and get verbal confirmation of the email contents.

Once you have verbal confirmation of the authenticity of the request, I would respond to the email reiterating that you would be canceling the reservation per the instructions of the mediator.

Even then, I don’t know the legalities around such an arrangement, but your actions may still represent a breach of contract, or worse, you may inadvertently become party to insurance fraud.

When a client files a claim, the investigator will ask the claimant for the contract language. Based on existing language, they may attempt to recover damages. Your contract clearly states, as you pointed out, that you are not to cancel for any reason. Despite David’s paying you and washing their hands of it, the insurance company may still view you in breach of your contract and go after the money.

ETA - Cynical? Maybe. But this is in keeping with David’s practice of attempting to pass all risk on to “not me”.

 

[Sandisw]

It’s very thoughtful of you to be willing to do this. As an added measure of protection, I would recommend you call in, speak to a representative at David’s, and get verbal confirmation of the email contents.

Once you have verbal confirmation of the authenticity of the request, I would respond to the email reiterating that you would be canceling the reservation per the instructions of the mediator.

Even then, I don’t know the legalities around such an arrangement, but your actions may still represent a breach of contract, or worse, you may inadvertently become party to insurance fraud.

When a client files a claim, the investigator will ask the claimant for the contract language. Based on existing language, they may attempt to recover damages. Your contract clearly states, as you pointed out, that you are not to cancel for any reason. Despite David’s paying you and washing their hands of it, the insurance company may still view you in breach of your contract and go after the money.

You just made me think of something. Davids old contract does say that if the owner cancels or does something to cause the reservation to be gone, the renter is entitled to a full refund...his new contract offers the voucher.

So, you are right, the insurance may request a copy of the contract and if they ask who canceled and they have to admit the owner did, they may lose the claim and come after the owner, since the contract does say owner breaches if they cancel.

I changed my mind. I would not cancel it.

 

[FinnFogg]

If you decide to proceed, you should definitely take a screen shot of the page that pops up when you cancel confirming that the reservation has been cancelled. As Sandisaw points out above, it disappears from your dashboard after that, and there is way more detail in in you points usage summary that you may want to share.

 

[Sandiz08]

I wouldn’t do it, travel insurance may still deny their claim. We learned that the hard way once for a California Trip . We actually couldn’t open up the claim until we had proof of cancellation we could provide to the insurance company. Had we known our claim was going to be denied we wouldn’t have cancelled and accepted a credit on behalf of the hotel instead.

 

[Bing Showei]

You just made me think of something. Davids old contract does say that if the owner cancels or does something to cause the reservation to be gone, the renter is entitled to a full refund...his new contract offers the voucher.

So, you are right, the insurance may request a copy of the contract and if they ask who canceled and they have to admit the owner did, they may lose the claim and come after the owner, since the contract does say owner breaches if they cancel.

I changed my mind. I would not cancel it.

It may be David is not being malicious, but just not thinking it through. If his contract with the renter clearly states that renter is entitled to a refund should a reservation be cancelled, he is obligated to provide that refund, right?

I don’t know. Either way, this all seems a bit sketch.

 

[bluecruiser]

This situation sounds fishy to me. If the resort is open, what valid reason would there be for you to cancel the reservation? Other than the renter wants to file with their travel insurance company to get their money back.

If I were in your place I'd be worried I could be potentially putting myself at risk for being a party to insurance fraud.

Adding: I've never used travel insurance myself, so I might be off base here. Is it normal for a travel insurance policy to require proof of cancellation in order to reimburse the claim?

 

[Sandisw]

It may be David is not being malicious, but just not thinking it through. If his contract with the renter clearly states that renter is entitled to a refund should a reservation be cancelled, he is obligated to provide that refund, right?

I don’t know. Either way, this all seems a bit sketch.

I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but wonder if this renter is a friend or family member?

But, yeah, contract says that for sure, so it’s definitely weird.

 

[starry_solo]

I agree with a prior poster, seems like a way into insurance fraud....

 

[New Mouse]

I agree with a prior poster, seems like a way into insurance fraud....

I agree with this statement. Also the renter purchased through Davids, so wouldnt insurance have to be based of Davids saying the resevation was canceled, not the owner?

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Get David’s to pay you the money BEFORE you cancel. Get him to sign a side agreement.

 

[VivalaDisney]

I find it extremely interesting how he has changed his policies and processes. I was asked to cancel a reservation, prior to the announcement of any closures. David stated: "We are asking if you would be willing to return the 70% for the **************** reservation and cancel the reservation. If refunding the money is not feasible, would you be willing to work with us and the guest to find new dates for their reservation?"

The renters refused to rebook, and David claimed the renters did not have travel insurance. David then stated: "We are reaching out to ask you to please cancel this reservation, and to let us know once it has been cancelled and the points have been returned to your account."

Days later, after the cancellation had been requested and after I had cancelled at their request, the closures were announced. David then stated: "As the Resorts have been closed and accommodations do not exist, we will not be sending the final 30% of this payment on [check-in date]."

A week after the renter's request to cancel, and after I had canceled it, David demanded that I submit to them documentation of the cancellation: "You are correct that we do not need proof of the cancellation when we ask an Owner to cancel, and what you had provided us was indeed sufficient. However, the reason I reached out to you in this case was simply because ... showing the reservation as active...."

I hope it works out for you. I lost money in using David to rent my points. I will never use him again.

 

[piccolopat]

It’s very thoughtful of you to be willing to do this. As an added measure of protection, I would recommend you call in, speak to a representative at David’s, and get verbal confirmation of the email contents.

Once you have verbal confirmation of the authenticity of the request, I would respond to the email reiterating that you would be canceling the reservation per the instructions of the mediator.

Even then, I don’t know the legalities around such an arrangement, but your actions may still represent a breach of contract, or worse, you may inadvertently become party to insurance fraud.

When a client files a claim, the investigator will ask the claimant for the contract language. Based on existing language, they may attempt to recover damages. Your contract clearly states, as you pointed out, that you are not to cancel for any reason. Despite David’s paying you and washing their hands of it, the insurance company may still view you in breach of your contract and go after the money.

ETA - Cynical? Maybe. But this is in keeping with David’s practice of attempting to pass all risk on to “not me”.

I agree that this is touching on insurance fraud. In some states that is a felony offense. I also agree that it is possible that the insurance company may come after you to reimburse them since you are cancelling and not returning the monies paid. I understand the reluctance of people to travel to WDW at this time but the fact remains that the parks and facilities are open and there is no impediment to them traveling. They signed a contract with a no cancel clause and are trying to get around paying when they have decided not to go by tapping into a travel insurance policy. That is dishonest and IMHO puts you in legal jeopardy. You'll have to decide if it's worth that risk.

 

[Sandisw]

I find it extremely interesting how he has changed his policies and processes. I was asked to cancel a reservation, prior to the announcement of any closures. David stated: "We are asking if you would be willing to return the 70% for the **************** reservation and cancel the reservation. If refunding the money is not feasible, would you be willing to work with us and the guest to find new dates for their reservation?"

The renters refused to rebook, and David claimed the renters did not have travel insurance. David then stated: "We are reaching out to ask you to please cancel this reservation, and to let us know once it has been cancelled and the points have been returned to your account."

Days later, after the cancellation had been requested and after I had cancelled at their request, the closures were announced. David then stated: "As the Resorts have been closed and accommodations do not exist, we will not be sending the final 30% of this payment on [check-in date]."

A week after the renter's request to cancel, and after I had canceled it, David demanded that I submit to them documentation of the cancellation: "You are correct that we do not need proof of the cancellation when we ask an Owner to cancel, and what you had provided us was indeed sufficient. However, the reason I reached out to you in this case was simply because ... showing the reservation as active...."

I hope it works out for you. I lost money in using David to rent my points. I will never use him again.

Ouch,..and this is why some of us are pretty cynical about his business. He has done way too many things that have left owners holding the brunt of it.

Sorry it happened to you this way.

 

[ice cube]

After doing some extensive online research I found David to be in some unscrupulous business practices of recent. Not to mention some going back a little. Anyway,
I agree with others and don't cancel under any circumstances until you get the final 30% owed to you. You probably will not see it and it will be a loss. Know that karma
comes around when you least expect it and it will happen to David. Again this is why I take the time and rent out my own points.....learn from your mistake. Wishing you the best.

 

[marie1981]

I also suggested that you do not cancel, you could get yourself in trouble for nothing. On the day of the official check-in, you will receive your last 30%, and, cross your fingers, if there is no show from the guest, you might get your points back in your account. This happenned to two of my friends in september. The renter did not show up. they received the 30% from David's . They checked their account and there was a manual adjustemnt from DVC to put the points back. You gain nothing from cancelling, except trouble if the insurance company suspect a fraud....

 

[DVC BLT]

Thank you everyone for your replies. I'm not going to cancel. I do not want to be part of any fraud attempt. If the renter needs proof if no check in due to a genuine health issue and insurance won't pay without proof that they didn't use the reservation, I'm sure that can be provided another way besides me cancelling the reservation. I'll do what I can to help them prove they didn't check in, I'm sure DVC can give me something I can share with them to show they didn't check-in. If they are lying beyond that, that's their issue to deal with.

 

[starry_solo]

Thank you everyone for your replies. I'm not going to cancel. I do not want to be part of any fraud attempt. If the renter needs proof if no check in due to a genuine health issue and insurance won't pay without proof that they didn't use the reservation, I'm sure that can be provided another way besides me cancelling the reservation. I'll do what I can to help them prove they didn't check in, I'm sure DVC can give me something I can share with them to show they didn't check-in. If they are lying beyond that, that's their issue to deal with.

Thanks for coming back to update us on your decision!

 

[CarolynFH]

We have had to cancel a trip and file a travel insurance claim. The insurance agency only required us to document how much of a refund we’d get from the tour operator, and they covered the rest. The insurance agency didn’t require any proof that the tour operator had cancelled any of the travel arrangements made on our behalf. We did have to prove that we cancelled for a covered reason (it was not “cancel for any reason” travel insurance).

So this doesn’t make sense to me. The renter should only be needing to prove that they’re cancelling for a covered reason and provide a copy of the contract with David stating that if THEY cancel, they lose $YYY. I too wonder whether the renter is trying to be reimbursed based on a claim that YOU cancelled the reservation - because their actual reason for not traveling is not covered by their insurance.

 

[Bearval]

Any owners have Davids contact you asking you to cancel the reservation so that I can provide a proof of cancellation to the renter to file an insurance claim?

They promised to pay me the remaining 30% due in 3 days, and my points will go into the holding account which is pretty much useless to me since we won't be going to Disney anytime soon. This is only in email and not in any type of agreement.

Just curious if you got paid your 30% and if they came after you for the original 70%? The contract I signed when I first rented the points before covid clearly says that I should not cancel the reservation under any circumstances and if I do that would be the only reason I would need to refund the 70% downpayment.

Thanks in advance for anyone who can help. Just seems like a last second change with only a few days to go. I want to help the renter.

I wouldn't do it. The insurance company could come after you for breaking the contract.

 

[dclpluto]

I wouldn't do it. The insurance company could come after you for breaking the contract.

Exactly the same thing I was thinking.