DAS fair or not fair

[FranNorton]

I read today on another site that numerous families are taking Disney to court over the 'unfairness' of not allowing disabled guests to go immediately to the front of the line as it was before.

We actually have 1 person in our party of that is entitled to use the DAS and feel that the current system of having to come back at a set time is fairer than being able to go straight to the front of the queue.

As a person from the UK I cannot understand why Disney could not ask for proof of disability. If we go to a theme park here in the UK we have to take proof which is then inspected at customer services and this totally wipes out the system being abused.

I just wondered what your views are

 

[VandVsmama]

I think that the current system is just fine. We have a friend who is disabled and is an AP holder at Disneyland, so he uses DAS every time he goes there. It is unreasonable to expect the disabled guest to NOT have to wait at all. It IS reasonable to give the disabled guest an opportunity to wait elsewhere in a way or in a place where he/she is more comfortable.

 

[Ben E N]

I'm reading the story the opposite way (the first post initially said "now allowing" instead of "not). There are family members of autistic park goers who feel it is not fair to tell them that they have to wait for a ride. As I understand it, the current disability system allows guest to reserve a place in line for any one ride, and that return time is equivalent to what the current wait time is. That way, that guest is not "butting" in line, but also does not have to stand in it. It's the most fair system that I can think of, and don't see that autism suit ending well for the plantiffs.

 

[MarkLT1]

I think it is fair as well. I've got Crohn's disease, and most of my trips to WDW I have been in remission, so no need for DAS (and I did not get DAS). I did have one trip where I was flaring up, and needed to use DAS. I actual prefer waiting elsewhere (near a bathroom), and subtly coming back through the FP+ line, rather than going to the front of the line, as I don't "look" like I have a disability. If it was a "go to the front of the line" kind of thing, I probably just wouldn't ride, as I'd be super self-conscious about it. I think it is a fair system, as you aren't really cutting in front of people.. rather you are sort of reserving a spot in line, so that you can be elsewhere during the waiting time. Of course there are probably ways that people game the system, etc.. but that is going to happen no matter what.

 

[superme80]

The DAS system is in my opinion is very fair. We haven't used it since we have been able to get my son to wait or skipped a line that is too long. My husband suffers from anxiety and sometimes the cue lines are claustrophobic for him. We spoke to Main Street, and they let us know he can leave the line at at any time, and they will let him in through the exit to meet up with us. Thankfully he hasn't had to use it, but it is a great option.

 

[Welsh_Dragon]

I read today on another site that numerous families are taking Disney to court over the 'unfairness' of now allowing disabled guests to go immediately to the front of the line as it was before.

We actually have 1 person in our party of that is entitled to use the DAS and feel that the current system of having to come back at a set time is fairer than being able to go straight to the front of the queue.

As a person from the UK I cannot understand why Disney could not ask for proof of disability. If we go to a theme park here in the UK we have to take proof which is then inspected at customer services and this totally wipes out the system being abused.

I just wondered what your views are

It is very different from the U.K., I agree, and I think US tourists are often shocked when they visit tourist attractions in the U.K. and find that they need certified proof of disability. With the US system, I can understand the need for privacy and empathise with people not wanting to provide details of a disability but WDW or other organisations requiring a certificate from a GP which states ‘I confirm that X has a disability as defined by YZ Act’ doesn’t seem too much of an imposition to me.
Surely the whole purpose of disability discrimination legislation, whatever country one is from, is to ‘level the playing field’ rather than to give advantage, so the system of giving a return time and allowing people with a disability not to queue, seems reasonable to me. I would like to argue that people with disability should only skip the queue with a finite number of family members and friends, but I can see that others would, quite rightly, argue that they should be entitled to the same level of enjoyment as people without a disability and therefore should be able to enjoy rides with an infinite number of friends and family members. It’s a conundrum.

 

[Melissa55]

As a person from the UK I cannot understand why Disney could not ask for proof of disability. If we go to a theme park here in the UK we have to take proof which is then inspected at customer services and this totally wipes out the system being abused.

I think if they really wanted to, Disney could ask for proof of disability, however this could cause a lot of logistical problems for Disney because of HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act), which guarantees a patient’s right to privacy. They would have to train cast members on HIPAA compliance, and be extremely diligent to ensure guest privacy. It’s much easier on them to use an honor system.

It’s also easier on the guests as bringing medical files on a trip as proof of disability could be inconvenient, embarrassing, and even unsafe if those papers end up in the wrong hands. Plus there is such a huge stigma around disabilities, physical, mental, visible, or invisible.

Take the example above, most people with Crohn’s are able to function well on a day-to-day basis when not having a flare where they don’t really qualify for like government disability, and would not really have a medical ID indicating that status, but you get there and start having flare symptoms and know you can’t stand in a line. Should those people put themselves through extreme physical discomfort (Crohn’s flares can involve everything from internal inflammation to internal hemorrhages - anywhere in the digestive tract from your mouth to your anus) standing in line because there’s an appearance of unfairness when they return to the line at their appointed time? I certainly don’t think so.

 

[mjkacmom]

The DAS system is in my opinion is very fair. We haven't used it since we have been able to get my son to wait or skipped a line that is too long. My husband suffers from anxiety and sometimes the cue lines are claustrophobic for him. We spoke to Main Street, and they let us know he can leave the line at at any time, and they will let him in through the exit to meet up with us. Thankfully he hasn't had to use it, but it is a great option.

That’s great, having similar issues just knowing you can get out makes a huge difference. I went to an escape room with friends, and just knowing I wasn’t actually locked in made a huge difference. I have family on Long Island, and I’d rather drive through manhattan than sit in the usual 4 mile backup on the cross Bronx expressway/GWB back to NJ.

 

[design_mom]

I am not a disability expert, but when this lawsuit was first brought up, I read a little about it. I believe the way the law is written here, is that a "public accommodation" (a business that's open to the public) cannot ask for documentation to provide "equivalent access." I think having to wait a roughly equal amount of time (the current DAS process) would be considered equivalent access by most people.

If a public accommodation offers access that's better than what the general public gets, I think they *could* ask for proof of the disability. (I'm guessing they definitely could for something that provides front-of-line access, and *maybe* they could since the DAS allows the bearer to do other things while they wait while average guests cannot do other things while they're waiting in line.) However, that would be opening a whole can of worms -- both with patient privacy, and having qualified people on staff who could interpret and decide who qualifies for the benefit. I think it'd probably also open Disney up to lawsuits from anyone who thinks they were wrongfully denied. I don't blame Disney for not wanting to get into that.

As far as I know, there is no central body in the US that determines who is disabled -- at least, not in a way that would be meaningful to a theme park. (There are certain things, like handicapped parking spaces, where a determination is made by someone somewhere about who qualifies... however, the things that qualify you for a disabled parking pass might not mean you need a DAS, and some disabilities that need a DAS probably wouldn't qualify for a parking space... so even showing your parking placard probably wouldn't be a lot of help in determining who has a true need.)

 

[Boopuff]

I believe that the plaintiff is seeking immediate, front of the line, repeated rides for her son. I just don't see how this is reasonable or justifiable. No other people can request that, and it's not "equal" access. I'm thinking this trial will not help people with autism achieve the result they'd like. I think the current DAS system works well. (My only objection is CM allowing a never ending stream of family through - stick to the limit of 6)

 

[bcla]

I know enough about this. The US Dept of Justice does state that a business or employer can’t require specific indication of a disability for a service animal. However, the handler can be asked about the specific service that the animal provides. Some people confuse this with other accommodations for disabilities.

Other amusement parks I’ve been to do ask for a medical note for any kind of special access. It wouldn’t need to state the condition - only that such access would be beneficial given the condition. I met a kid who did get special accommodations that were more or less a front of the line pass for Six Flags parks that was similar to Disney Parks’ former Guest Access Card. And of course many here remember the expose on disabled people being hired as “guides” to skip lines. Of course anyone can get a similar service by paying for Disney’s own VIP guide service.

 

[bcla]

I believe that the plaintiff is seeking immediate, front of the line, repeated rides for her son. I just don't see how this is reasonable or justifiable. No other people can request that, and it's not "equal" access. I'm thinking this trial will not help people with autism achieve the result they'd like. I think the current DAS system works well. (My only objection is CM allowing a never ending stream of family through - stick to the limit of 6)

I remember some of the complaints on Disboards from parents of autistic kids were that the GAC allowed them to visit in a way that their kids could handle. The claim was that their kids couldn’t handle a 12 hour day where they would need to wait between rides, but could handle the equivalent of maybe a dozen rides in two or three hours. Something about having to keep the day short in order to reduce the chance of a meltdown.

 

[DisneyOma]

I read today on another site that numerous families are taking Disney to court over the 'unfairness' of now allowing disabled guests to go immediately to the front of the line as it was before.

Of now allowing, or did you mean "not allowing"?

 

[Buckeye218]

IMO, there is no justification for anyone, disabled or otherwise, getting "front-of-the-line" access for park rides. Everyone paid admission to the park and there should be no program or system in place to allow this unless Disney wants to monetize this type of access. Then it would be available to everyone, but some could choose not to pay it.

I've read other threads on this topic and the argument is made that this helps disabled individuals have the same type of guest experience as the rest of the park-goers...which is simply not possible. There is no way to ensure every single park visitor has the same experience. There may not be capacity not to mention that not every guest wants the same experience. The only way to make it fair is to not allow any special access.

 

[cdobert]

My son and I have been going to WDW yearly for over 18 years. He has Down's Syndrome and it's his happy place.
As a teacher we have to go in the summer, so have to keep our days short as the heat and humidity kills his stamina.
We do use a DAS but are at the park at rope drop and use FP+ to minimize DAS use. I agree with a previous poster, many cast members don't want the hassle of limiting the number of guests who go through with the DAS holder and that bothers many people who are waiting in line.

 

[Ben E N]

I've read other threads on this topic and the argument is made that this helps disabled individuals have the same type of guest experience as the rest of the park-goers...which is simply not possible

Obviously it cannot be the exact same experience. Nobody has that. I think what they are going for is an equitable experience. As much as possible, without prying into people's personal matters, I think they have gotten as close to it as possible. Yes, people with DAS can still scan into one ride, then wait in a 2 hour line for another one, and then go back and return to the FP+ line for a ride that had a 2.5 hour long wait, but I really doubt many are doing that. My sister in law uses it, as she has about 13 screws in her ankle, and she said that it made a huge difference in her enjoyment at the parks, as she could stand in line for the 20 minute waits, but would DAS and sit on a bench for anything over 40.

 

[elaine amj]

I don't mind people with DAS getting slightly better access. Same for kids with rider swap. I know they get better access than the rest of us. But that's ok - because their whole day takes longer than mine.

Last trip I had to use a wheelchair. It really wasn't that difficult to use and had its pluses. But halfway through the trip I finally felt well enough and u better believe the moment I was strong enough, that wheelchair stayed behind! It is sooo much easier to navigate the parks on my own two feet and have the strength to go all day. And definitely easier without wrangling little kiddies.

 

[HopperFan]

I'm not going to quote, just respond to some things ....

In the US our rights of disabled are much different than other countries. You may need less here for assistance and we must remember to take documentation to other countries. If nothing else it's good to have medical info from a doctor on your person when you travel.

There is no rule preventing businesses from asking about notes because some locations here do require doctors notes such as Six Flags. Simply the differences seem to be when you gain an advantage you can ask. At Six Flags guests have to pay for their "fast pass" so a note is required to get it for free. Technically since Disney sells FP+ to concierge they could ask for notes but I don't think they want to go down that STICKY road. If they do, I'd be fine with it as I would be able to provide a legitimate note, but how many would provide fraudulent notes. Universal sells "maxpass" so they could ask but they have chosen to just be much harder to work with, giving out very few (and they have two kinds of Disability pass with the better one much harder to get).

The lawsuits are old news, I think some have dropped out and only a few are persisting but not with much gain that I can see. I honestly don't know what their lawyers think they will gain from it unless it's in their plan to sue for cash at some point. They seem to not only want the old GAC but front of the line treatment which no one gets except for Make A Wish kids. Make A Wish no longer gifts just terminal kids so the issue could still be a sticking point with some. I have to say even going 4-6 weeks a year I still see very few MAW kids.

The disabled tour guide story ........... that is NOT why Disney switched from GAC to DAS. It was the story that made something they had been working on a very easy change in the public's eye. The poor tour guide that was just drug in the mud. The tour company mostly specialized in tours for the disabled; cruises, Disney and more. When many local companies began doing VIP tours to compete with Disney, they decided to try to for extra income. A woman in NYC hired them, got a disabled tour guide who used the GAC. Because Disney completely failed in the implementation of the GAC this family was given access to FP lines over and over with no waiting except for the FP line. The woman made it a national story and Disney was given the opportunity to fix something long broken .... with implied blame why.

The GAC aka Guest Assistance Card (and note it didn't even imply a disability in name) was broken and had been a long time. They were giving them out for a wide range of issues that simply didn't need a card and could be addressed at attractions, they gave out for any reason, they gave out just because someone declared a disability without having any issues that impacted their ability to be in line and they had people lying. Then to make it worse rather than guests use it when it was actually needed, and CMs just waiving everyone in to the FP lines ..... the FP lines were jammed with huge numbers of groups with "the red card". Disney worked hard at making most their lines accessible (addresses all mobility needs) so what it came down to what needs couldn't they address. That is when the needs narrowed greatly and the Disability Access Service was born.

Now guests couldn't just walk up to a ride and go in the FP line and do it over and over and over, clogging up the FP lines and gaining a huge advantage over other guests. Many complained that they wanted the old way, but the old way was not fair. The new way gives these guests the plus of waiting outside the crowded tight loud spaces, while fairly waiting the same amount of time as others. You still have the plus you can use that time for bathrooms, eating or riding a low tier no line ride. It works and it works well. We find that FP+ and the ability to book on our phones has actually been the real plus and we use the DAS very little now, maybe once per day. Does DAS give us an "equal" experience? No. Does it help manage our issues better so we can hopefully have a positive experience whether that is 4 hours or 8 hours? Yes. It is simply a tool in our tool box to try to normalize our day. All the other tools I bring, this is a well appreciated tool Disney offers.

To be clear because it seems like it still is not ................ DAS is NOT front of the line pass. Never has been. It is access to the FP+ where we wait like others. This often means we wait longer than others. If the SB for Flight of Passage is 120 minutes (enter line to boarding flight), we are given 110 minutes to wait outside the line. But then we enter the line, wait and board the flight which often is another 20 minutes or more. So we are then waiting 10+ minutes more than everyone else. I still think it's fair. And I think most DAS users are likely using that time to rest, sit, bathroom, etc to keep their day as in control as they can.

The ONLY people who get front of the line passes are Make A Wish Kids and no matter what you might think of their mission, I don't think anyone is going to judge which child is sick enough to qualify.

AGAIN the DAS is NOT front of the line access. The DAS allows a person who has unmanageable difficulty with the queue lines the ability to wait their time outside the line before doing more time inside the FP line. This is not special access, this is managing access for health and safety reasons.

In short:
Doctors notes can be requested if giving a paid service for free (aka advantage).
FP is not a paid service for most so no doctors note.
GAC didn't disappear because of a disabled tour guide.
GAC was abused and overused by disabled and non-disabled.
DAS isn't front of the line pass.
DAS users wait the same and sometimes longer amount of time.


NOTE: DS1 has what most would consider severe disabilities. We managed without assistance on our own for 18 years. Then after an unfortunate issue in a line we began to use the GAC, only when necessary. We went through the switch to DAS. At this point FP+ and ability to book on the phone has been the greatest tool for us.

 

[sk8jdgca]

I was confused as a mom on a Disney Facebook page was saying that her kid with type 1 diabetes should get DAS. I understand low sugar and that part ( so snacks should be permitted) but if a kid is having that issue they should be going on a ride. From what I understand, is that the child should be leading an active lifestyle. I’m just confused as to why this would qualify

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I was confused as a mom on a Disney Facebook page was saying that her kid with type 1 diabetes should get DAS. I understand low sugar and that part ( so snacks should be permitted) but if a kid is having that issue they should be going on a ride. From what I understand, is that the child should be leading an active lifestyle. I’m just confused as to why this would qualify

Qualifying for a DAS is not based on diagnosis. It is based on needs. Two people with the same diagnosis (on paper) might have totally different needs when it comes to accommodations. Therefore, someone requesting a DAS has to explain why it would help their individual situation. The CMs will ask the appropriate questions and assess whether or not the person qualifies for DAS. It's hard for anyone to predict whether someone else's particular situation will qualify.