dangerous breeds of dog

[GRUMPY PIRATE]

It seems that the HOA would be well served if they sidestep the "dangerous breeds" issue and simply put it the bylaws that any animal that has been involved in a threating manner to another homeowner, and the homeowner has complained to the citys animal control OR the HOA, and the incident was found to be true, that animal is not allowed. (or similar words)

And that any animals residing in the complex/subdivision must comply with all city and state laws on registering, paying tax, and rabies vaccinations!

the reason I say that is that if you ban a "breed', all the homeowner has to do is 'prove" that his animal is not the breed you think he is. (mixed breed for example)

In that way, you are making the homeowner responsible for complying.

 

[clutter]

This family won't get rid of the dog because animal control has said they'll destroy him if he's turned over to them.

That means that Animal Control may have already designated that dog as dangerous. If you can find out, that will give your HOA the legal ability to state that the dog is dangerous. Also, if that is the case, there are probably certain rules that the owners are supposed to follow in order to be allowed to keep the dog. Follow up with AC if you can.

(I have a friend who had a dog that got out and killed some chickens, which gave him his dangerous designation. They were supposed to keep the dog within a 6ft tall fenced area, etc etc. They were subject to annual, surprise inspections.)

 

[2binak]

Any breed can be dangerous - they are wild animals that have been domesticated. I've seen a 5 lb toy poodle take a chunk out of someone's finger and just yesterday, a Pitbull licked my 17 month old DD's hand and let her pet him. Honestly, I think the wording of the association paperwork is pretty vague but if the dog was out of it's owners' control as you stated, the HOA might have a case, just not sure if they have a case using the vague clause in the paperwork.

As for invisible fences, I've seen our neighbor's Shih Tzu run right through her fence. She yelped, so you know it hurt, but she just kept right on running. I highly doubt an invisible fence will contain an animal so driven that it breaks through the front door.

 

[Aisling]

I don't belong in the *there are no dangerous breeds, its the owners not training or letting them run loose* attitude. All dogs have the potential to become visious and dangerous but there are certainly certain breeds that show they are more likely to be. OP, any dog that breaks out of the home to attack someone is dangerous in my opinion. I hope for the sake of the residents of your neighborhood that the board sees the actions of this dog, coupled with its breeding, as a danger to them and requires the owner to get rid of it. If the owner sues, I hope he loses.

I agree with the bolder part, but not with the underlined part.

In my experience with hundreds of dogs of every breed is that some breeds, when aren't trained well and do become dangerous, are simply more aggressive in their dangerous behavior. A pit has that locking-its-jaw instinct which makes it's aggression more dangerous than a German Sheperd that'll just keep biting and biting. The larger/heavier dogs are more dangerous when aggressive because they can knock someone down to bite them. Chihuahuas, when not trained well, will snap and draw blood, but you wouldn't die from that injury.

My point is that dog rules should be on a case by case basis. If the dog, whatever the breed, shows signs of aggression, out it should go from a residential development.

 

[luvmy3]

I agree with the bolder part, but not with the underlined part.

In my experience with hundreds of dogs of every breed is that some breeds, when aren't trained well and do become dangerous, are simply more aggressive in their dangerous behavior. A pit has that locking-its-jaw instinct which makes it's aggression more dangerous than a German Sheperd that'll just keep biting and biting. The larger/heavier dogs are more dangerous when aggressive because they can knock someone down to bite them. Chihuahuas, when not trained well, will snap and draw blood, but you wouldn't die from that injury.

My point is that dog rules should be on a case by case basis. If the dog, whatever the breed, shows signs of aggression, out it should go from a residential development.

I agree that any untrained dog has the potential to be dangerous but on a case by case basis. American Pitbull Terriors as a breed have been bred to fight, no amount of love and training can take that instinct away. Sure good training can keep the dog under control but the instinct will always be there and can be unleashed, pardon the pun, without provocation. When that happens it often results in serious injury or death.
IMHO, a well trained dog that has been bred specifically for aggression is different from some rogue Chihuahua that happened to have owners who didn't know how to train it properly. A dog that has been bred to have aggressive behavior is far more dangerous than one that hasn't no matter how good of an owner it has.

 

[CathrynRose]

A pit has that locking-its-jaw instinct which makes it's aggression more dangerous than a German Sheperd that'll just keep biting and biting. .

Pit's do not have locking jaws. They are a dog, not an alligator.

 

[pezheadmeg]

As a side note, this is not only about Pit Bulls (not that anyone said it was)...another dog, a cocker spaniel in fact, in my mom's neighborhood has attacked 2 dogs on more than one occasion - a golden retriever and a boxer. The dog actually broke through the front window of the golden's house twice, trying to get at the dog. And you know what? The police were only called once.

My mother called to think about switching home owner's insurance companies last year. The new company quoted her almost 3 times higher than she was currently paying. The reason: the cocker spaniel. There's some list out there that lists cockers as the most bite prone dogs.

That being said the cocker is bullied by the ****-a-poo who's half his size. So I really believe it's all about the temperment and personality as well as the training of the dogs.

 

[Aisling]

Pit's do not have locking jaws. They are a dog, not an alligator.

Oops, I guess that's a myth that I heard!

 

[Aisling]

Owners have a lot to do with it but be honest, you have a much greater chance of being seriously injured by a pit bull than a shi zu. Some breeds are more dangerous because they were bred to be. A good owner makes a huge difference but breed does matter.

I definitely agree that I'd be hurt much worse by a pitbull than by a shizu. The thing is, Ive come into contact with so many pits at the park, and I've never felt afraid of them. I used to be, but that was before I met so many of them.

I feel that a whole breed shouldn't be penalized because they have the capacity to harm someone seriously IF the owner didn't train them to be gentle. That's why I said in another post that banning certain dogs should be on a case by case basis, not exclusive to breed.

If a chihuahua keeps biting my ankles, no I won't die from it, but I'd sure have bloody ankles, which I don't want. Case by case is the only fair way.

 

[Aisling]

So glad someone else said this before me! I'm not going to pinpoint breed to breed but I do totally agree that certain dogs are more prone to attacking/biting, etc than others. And owners do play a part, but still...

I totally disagree. I don't believe certain breeds are "prone" to attacking/biting. What I do believe is that certain breeds can do more severe damage than other dogs when they attack/bite. Dogs are prone to do what they've been taught or not taught. I don't believe pitbulls have a killer instinct...they have an instinct to be fierce fighters if they get into a fight, and if they get into a fight, I believe it's the owners fault 100%

 

[Aisling]

I agree. My dog has hunting instincts that are bred into her breed. I believe that there are other insticts that can be bred into dogs as well. And I will leave it at that.

Absolutely dog breeds have different instincts, but I don't believe pitbulls or other rotties or dobermans etc have the instinct to attack. They have the instinct to be a fierce fighter IF they attack. Of all the many many pitbulls that come into the park, I've never seen one rushing in looking to kill another dog or attack a person. I've never seen one attack over a tennis ball or water bowl. They're just like any other dog that has been taught acceptable behavior.

 

[Aisling]

American Pitbull Terriors as a breed have been bred to fight, no amount of love and training can take that instinct away. Sure good training can keep the dog under control but the instinct will always be there and can be unleashed, pardon the pun, without provocation. When that happens it often results in serious injury or death.

Without provocation? Then I'm a very lucky woman! I'm surrounded by pitbulls at least 5 times a week, and I've never seen this behavior. The owners know the strength of their dogs if they got into a fight, and they take it very seriously to train the dogs to be gentle. They've done a great job. Watch, tomorrow I'm going to be bitten by a pitbull for jinxing myself on this thread!

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Let's face it: if you are around dogs long enough you will discover that certain breeds have instincts for certain behaviors. My family has a pure bred dachshund. I have a dachshund/Jack Russell mix. Dachshunds were bred to hunt badgers and are very much den animals. Both Schnitzel and Matthias love to burrow under the covers. They will literally tuck themselves in. It is adorable. Point is, Matthias did this long before he met Schnitzel. I never trained him for it. It is simply part of his temperament.

I believe my mutt Eragon has some kind of herding breed because he has displayed herding instincts on many occasions, even herding Matthias when he is in the yard. There is a reason they come out with lists about dogs who are most likely to bite: because some breeds are more prone to biting than others. (And yes, dachshunds are on the list.) Some of those are small dogs including chihuahuas and our beloved dachshunds.

The problem comes when you have a dog that is more prone to biting (something a simple search of dog bite statistics can confirm) and has a physical build that makes their attacks more serious. I have had dachshunds and chihuahuas snap at me, but somehow I just can't find myself being scared of a dog I could drop kick. A large dog such as a rottie or pit bull could easily overpower me.

Here are some statistics from a variety of studies on dog bites and dog attacks:

Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.

According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states:

If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.

Here is a study with a table of dog breeds responsible for injuries and deaths. Admittedly this is not a neutral site.

It is clear that breed does play a large part in temperament. There are certainly breeds that are more likely to inflict bodily harm than others. The most common I hear are pit bulls, chows, rottweilers, wolf hybrids, and Akitas. I also sometimes see German Shephers on the list.

Does this mean that every one is bad? No. But it does mean that under the right circumstances these breeds are more likely to injure or kill.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

This post is from a more personal side. We dealt with this very issue in my neighborhood several times. We are outside of city limits so there is no leash law that has to be followed. When I was growing up a family had a wolf hybrid that roamed the streets. While gentle with humans, she would attack other dogs in their own yards. Several dogs sustained serious injuries and one died. No matter how many times animal control was called, nothing happened. The sad thing was they had a fence, they just never bothered to use it.

Another incident happened, and the progression is what you are describing OP. We had neighbors move into the house across the street. They had german shepherds. They were great about keeping them in the fence when they were gone, but did not believe it was necessary when they were in the yard. They believed they had "voice control" (voice control is a total myth, IMO). The dogs started challenging joggers. While they never bit, 911 had to be called one time because the dog had cornered a woman. They rushed my father several times and my neighbors had the audacity to say it was his fault because he jogged by their house.

Nothing was ever done about the dogs despite several calls. Then one day my dad was walking Schnitzel when the last remaining dog attacked. Schnitzel was on a leash. She was not. She was in her yard under "voice control." When she spotted them, she ran into the street, grabbed Schnitzel, and began shaking. Schnitzel was about 12 years old at the time. She tore the muscles all along his rib cage. We were not sure he would make it. They did get rid of the dog (the only reason my family did not call the authorities) but it was too little, too late.

We were out a large vet bill for surgeries, antibiotics, and intensive care treatment for Schnitzel. They shaved him from nape of the neck to the end of his rib cage to do surgery. A year later and it has not grown back. I doubt it ever will. All because they failed to control their dangerous dog.

Please do something about that dog before another family lives the nightmare we lived with our beloved Schnitzel. We were lucky, Schnitzel survived and other than being bald is no worse for the wear. Somebody else may not have been so lucky. A shudder to think what would have happened if it had been a child, or if it was another dog and the owner couldn't get the dog off in time. This could have turned out a lot worse.

 

[luvmy3]

I definitely agree that I'd be hurt much worse by a pitbull than by a shizu. The thing is, Ive come into contact with so many pits at the park, and I've never felt afraid of them. I used to be, but that was before I met so many of them.

I'm sure some of the people who have been attacked by pitbull's felt the same way.

Without provocation? Then I'm a very lucky woman! I'm surrounded by pitbulls at least 5 times a week, and I've never seen this behavior. The owners know the strength of their dogs if they got into a fight, and they take it very seriously to train the dogs to be gentle. They've done a great job. Watch, tomorrow I'm going to be bitten by a pitbull for jinxing myself on this thread!

Yes without provocation.
This isn't a debate, you are around dogs and haven't been attacked. I'm 36 years old and never been attacked by a dog. Many people will never be attacked by a dog, it doesn't mean it never happens.
BTW I'm sure the little boy in my town who was attacked and his face mauled by his aunt's pitbull last year doesn't feel so lucky. I'm betting his aunt doesn't feel so lucky that her beloved family pet attcked her 5 year old nephew for no reason, unless playing ball in your yard is.

 

[Wonders10]

I really try to be impartial when it comes to pit bulls. I really truly do. But I can't help but notice that when I am watching the local news and dog bite stories come on, it is always some sort of pit bull. Admittedly, if a golden retriever bit their owner, it probably would not but that big of a news story, but if the injury and attack was serious enough, I'm sure they would air it on the news.

This link takes you to my a local humane society down here. It gives some info on pit bulls (which they are desperately trying to get adopted because there are tons of them down here - especially now that the county below us and some cities in my county have "banned the breed" - not sure how that applies to mixes, since many are. It definitely dispells some of the myths about the pit bull, but I can't when reading to think that they are actually saying that pit bulls can be very dangerous animals, especially towards other animals. And it takes a lot of training and a very strong owner to handle a breed like this. Which I totally agree, and which I think is part of the problem. Tons of irresponsible dog owners are breeding or buying this breed and letting it resort back its natural instincts, or even worse, fighting them so they become increasinly agressive. It's sad really, but I will admit that if I see a loose pitbull in my neighborhood, I am terrified. Especially if I am walking my dog. You just never know.

http://showyourhumaneside.com/pitbull.html

As a side note, my mom's standard poodle was attacked by 2 german shepherds a couple years ago. I was still living at home and had just taken her outside. We were literally touching the knob of the side door to come back inside when our neighbors 2 dogs broke free from their leashes (one being held by a 4 yr old) and came charging at us. I semi-knew these dogs and they did not want me - they wanted Phoebe (mom's dog). It was horrible. I was able to get the door open to yell for my mom to come help. The walkers of the other dogs did nothing until after the fact. The one GS was clueless and had no idea what was going on...the other other bit Phoebe in 3 places, her back end, because I was trying to protect her and hold her close to me. This resulted in 1 small puncture bite on my finger that took forever to heal, looked disgusting and I have a teeny scar on my finger now from it. Anyway, the neighbor finally came to get the dogs who just ran away like the game was over. I was shaking like a leaf. The woman walking the dog was actually my neighbor's girlfriend at the time. She should have known that he his dogs are not socialized one bit, and do not walk well on a leash. So she thought it would be fun to walk them through the neighborhood and let her 4 yr old hold one of the leashes. Smart, right? Anyway, she had the nerve about 5 minutes later to come to the front door and show me her daughter's bleeding head and say something of "I'm taking her to the ER. Thanks a lot.". I literally wanted to slap her. Now I'm sorry her dd was hurt (when the dog pulled, she hit her head on my neighbor's boat), but I really didn't give a you know what at the time. And truthfully still don't. We called the police to make a report and they followed up. But our neighbor is crazy - literally - so we didn't pursue anything else. He has actually threatened to burn my mom's house down before so we thought we would just pay for the surgery ourselves.

Anyway, that's my story. So am I terrified of german shepherds now? Actually not at all. I wouldn't want one charging me, but in general I am not afraid of them. I actually think they are pretty cute. This is a story IMO, where I truly believe it was the owner who caused this, even though the dog did the biting.

 

[sbell111]

... Here is a study with a table of dog breeds responsible for injuries and deaths. Admittedly this is not a neutral site.

It is clear that breed does play a large part in temperament. There are certainly breeds that are more likely to inflict bodily harm than others. The most common I hear are pit bulls, chows, rottweilers, wolf hybrids, and Akitas. I also sometimes see German Shephers on the list. ...

I'm sorry, but your logic is flawed.

Imagine a study that found that red cars are much more likely to be caught speeding. It does not follow that red cars are faster than other cars. It may possibly follow that people who like to speed are more likely to buy red cars. It may also be due to the fact that red cars are more easily noticed and, therefore, more likely to get 'noticed' by the police.

Similarly, it is very likely that those people who would be more likely to 'train' their dog to be mean would be more likely to own certain breeds of dogs. When I was younger, the 'tough' breed du jour was german sheps, then dobvermans, then rotties. Now it's American Pit Bull Terriers. This change from breed to breed wasn't brought about by changes in the breeds. It was brought about by the fickle whims of these bad owners. Also, since a pit bull attack is fashionably newsworthy, a PBT nip is somewhat likely to be reported to the authorities long before a bite received from the neighbor's cocker spaniel.

... They believed they had "voice control" (voice control is a total myth, IMO). ...

I disagree with the assertion that a properly trained dog cannot be controlled by voice command. I have owned several dogs that were completely responsive to my commands.

 

[belle&sebastiansmom]

I disagree with the assertion that a properly trained dog cannot be controlled by voice command. I have owned several dogs that were completely responsive to my commands.

My brother is an Army MP in the k-9 unit and I've seen voice command at work, and it is amazing how the dogs respond. I trusted his work so much that I even put on the bite arm and let his Malinois "attack" me.

I think the key word you stated is "properly trained." I could yell at my 3 dogs til I'm blue and the face and still get no response from the spoiled mutts! lol

And I believe that there are reasons the military and law enforcement uses breeds like Malinois and German Shepherds. They are smart, trainable, and, imho, some aggression is in their nature, which is needed to do their job.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Actually, if you read the full first study the majority of attacks were by family dogs on owners. Many of these dogs had not been trained to be aggressive towards people, and the study found (the part I bolded) that 2/3 of the attacks were without any kind of warning (at least according to the owners.)

Read up on some of these "bully breeds." They state that these dogs need a very specific kind of owner to be able to handle them. Most people simply do not have what it takes to control a dog that is naturally more willful or aggressive. Temperament is largely a part of breeding. Certain dogs are more prone to certain behaviors than others. That's why when you look at getting a dog you should research what you are getting to make sure you can handle the temperament of that particular breed.

I am not saying that all "bully breeds" are bad, dangerous, and should be banned. I am saying they are more likey to cause serious injury or death. Some of it is obviously the result of owner incompetence, but some of it is also the result of specific breed temperament. People considering these dogs need to do their research carefully and make sure they know what they are getting themselves into. They also need to be certain that they can do the rigorous training necessary with these breeds (such as Pits) to establish themselves as the Alpha and to control their dogs.

 

[golfgal]

I would call the insurance company for who ever has the master policy for your association and ask them for their list-they will have a specific list. I would also add any dog that has been known to bite in the past. Typically you will see:

wolf mixes
pit bulls
rottweilers
Akitas
chows
dobermans