Cut back in hours true reflection of attendance?

[BonnieA]

I'm the OP on this thread. I didn't really think it would turn into such a lively topic. All I can say is that if the shortened hours are truly based on reduced attendance speculation then I have no problem with that. I'm used to going when there are reduced hours off season. But if it is based on something else and I'm crowded into parks with hords of people and early closing times, I will not be a happy camper. And this will certainly reflect on future trips I take to WDW.

 

[LSU Tigerfan]

gcurling,

As much as I respect the research you and raidermatt did, comparing 2002 to 2001 really doesn't prove very much, because 2001 attendance was disrupted by 9/11.

As I stated earlier in this thread, when attendance was way down in the fall of 2001, I believe that WDW kept its parks open for later hours that it would have liked because of its agreements with its employees. The parks simply couldn't cut operating hours very dramatically without laying off cast members, and WDW simply wasn't going to do that.

Something that would be more useful would be to compare 2002 to 2000 and see how the percentages work out. I would really be interested to see that.

For your sake, I'm sorry that the MK was busy last weekend. I know that many of my fellow Louisiana residents were there, taking advantage of having part of the week off for Mardi Gras. On the other hand, I have seen many other posters saying that the crowds at the parks have been very light lately.

 

[cindyfan]

The parks simply couldn't cut operating hours very dramatically without laying off cast members, and WDW simply wasn't going to do that.

Quite the contrary.....If I remember correctly......they had a huge lay off BEFORE 9-11.
All of these cuts, lay-offs, etc. started long before "terrorist" became part of everyday conversations. It just added to it.

I was at WDW in Oct 2001 and 2002. I noticed no significant difference in the amount of people with the exception of MK. There seemed to be more people in 2002. But I do remember the hours being shorter in 2002.

 

[MulanMom]

Originally posted by LSU Tigerfan
MulanMom,

I'm sorry if I offended, because I certainly wasn't trying to be judgmental. I was only trying to point out that so much of how you enjoy a vacation depends on your attitude toward it.

Thank you for that note, LSU Tigerfan. I felt a bit of an ouch when I read your original note and wasn't quite sure how to take it. Thanks for clarifying!

 

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by cindyfan
And when they get down there and realize that there is no night-time parade because the hours are short.....or their 5yo DD can't see Beauty and the Beast because it isn't scheduled the day they planned MGM......

I believe that Beauty and the Beast was restored to every day when Hunchback was cut. At least, it looks like it's now every day according to Steve Soares' website.

As for the nighttime parade, I know that our family went to WDW for years before we saw it, and never missed it.

If your friends really are doing their homework, they shouldn't really be surprised by any cuts when they get down there. I agree that WDW should avoid making hours reductions less than one month ahead of time--it seems to me like they are still working the kinks out of the hours management system--they have to balance all of the other issues with the importance of getting the word out.

At least they are finally doing a little better job of keeping the website updated.

 

[DancingBear]

Regarding the week after Easter:

NO, sorry not true. That is my point....Wed they close at 10 and Thurs at 11pm. BUT Friday at 7pm and Sat at 8pm!!! that is before sun-down!!!!!!! yet it is still Easter week and considered "peak" season.

As I understand it, the shortened MK hours on the Friday and Saturday after Easter are because those are Grad Nights, an annual event at WDW. The dates happen to fall on the weekend after Easter because Easter falls so late this year. This is not cut-related.

 

[LSU Tigerfan]

Here are two different articles in newspapers today that talk about low attendance at WDW:

AP story on low attendance

USA Today story

The AP story is really sad.

The attendance drop is real, folks. It's not something WDW "invented" as an excuse to cut hours and jam people into long lines. The cuts are inevitable until the Iraq situation is resolved one way or the other

 

[JJS2K3]

Travel to Florida was up by 4% in 2002.

 

[raidermatt]

Very few are disputing the attendance drop. The dispute is over whether the drop is 100% due to outside factors, or if the reduced hours/services/attractions/etc are PART of the cause.

The articles reference Disney and analysts as only mentioning outside forces as a cause. Its important to remember that these are the same people that said Disney had the process of building and opening a successful park "down" before the opening of DCA. They predicted the park would reach capacity many days.

Disney is obviously not going to place any blame on their own policies, and the analysts clearly don't have a handle on what Disney guests/fans want.

DancingBear, yes, when Hunchback was closed down, 2 days were added to Beauty, making it a 7-day show.

I believe that WDW kept its parks open for later hours that it would have liked because of its agreements with its employees.

I don't remember anything about this. Hours were cut, worker schedules were slashed...there were newspaper stories posted on these boards about workers going from 40 hours a week to 20.


For those that have no problem with the reduced hours and closed attractions, I'm curious...what WOULD it take for you to either:

A- Consider your experience diminished, or
B- Agree that while your experience may not be diminished, the experience of others might be?

 

[Galahad]

A- Consider your experience diminished, or
B- Agree that while your experience may not be diminished, the experience of others might be?

I think the reduction in addendance is definitely partly due to Disney inaction. For us, the answer to A is not park hours but reduction in live entertainment, too many refurbishing attractions, no new attractions, none of the little extras that make it magical.

 

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by raidermatt
For those that have no problem with the reduced hours and closed attractions, I'm curious...what WOULD it take for you to either:

A- Consider your experience diminished, or
B- Agree that while your experience may not be diminished, the experience of others might be?

A--The total package of changes, cuts, additions, modifications, whatever you want to call them, would have to make me feel that the total value of my vacation experience was diminished. I know, for example, that I would have missed EE if it hadn't been restored before my December visit to the Contemporary. Walking over early to MK with my 2yo DS on our first full day and blowing through Fantasyland in no time at all was great. I also would have been a little disappointed if a weekday Spectro had not been added--but it was.

I never felt on our trip that there was ever too little to do or to choose from, or that I was having to spend a lot more for our family to stay occupied than I would have if park hours had been longer, closed attractions and shows had been opened, etc. If I ever felt that way, then I would be disappointed. In fact, as usual, I left with a long list of stuff I didn't get around to.

B--I am sure that every cut in hours, every show closing and every attraction closing, rehab, etc., diminishes somebody's experience. Every attraction is somebody's favorite of all time.

 

[cindyfan]

I believe that Beauty and the Beast was restored to every day when Hunchback was cut.

Yes, you are right....and I am not normally a negative person.....to me the cup is usually "half full". But the last part of your statement is what sticks right now "....when Hunchback was cut."!!! That was one of my favorites too.

I know that our family went to WDW for years before we saw it, and never missed it.

I really don't want to have to tell my DD "it might be YEARS before we can see Spectro Magic!" Parades are truely one of the things we find Magical about WDW, HENCE the reason why we wanted to go during "peak" so as to have more chances to see them.

As I understand it, the shortened MK hours on the Friday and Saturday after Easter are because those are Grad Nights, an annual event at WDW. The dates happen to fall on the weekend after Easter because Easter falls so late this year. This is not cut-related.

Sorry.....but IMHO....it IS "cut-related". In previous years they have not closed for Grad Nights that early. Grad Nights don't start until 11pm! They can close at 9pm and clear the park with no problem! And the original schedule had MK closing Friday and Saturday at 8:30 with the fireworks scheduled at 8:30. That would give them plenty of time to clear the parks. AND Sunday MK was scheduled close at 9:30 with Spectro and Fireworks scheduled.........
SO....if it was because of Grad Nights.....why change Sundays????

Don't get me wrong....We will still have a Magical experience as we always do!!
Along with what Matt says..............

The dispute is over whether the drop is 100% due to outside factors, or if the reduced hours/services/attractions/etc are PART of the cause.

My dispute is with the fact that they have designated this as "peak" season with "peak" prices and yet I am getting exactly what I have previously gotten for "regular" and "value" prices.

If they are going to adjust hours, cancel attractions, have fewer shows, etc................then they need to reflect this in their prices. Do away with this "peak" vs "value" thing!

 

[LSU Tigerfan]

Raidermatt,

I suppose that I was a little disappointed when I went last December and CoP was closed, but usually some attraction that I enjoy is in rehab whenever I go. I'm not saying that people can't suffer some degree of disappointment about some of the cutbacks.

The point that I am making the that the advantage of near-empty parks far outweighs the drawbacks of having cutbacks and/or closed attractions. I think most people would agree with me that having no lines at attractions is an advantage that dwarfs the disadvantage of shorter hours.

By the way, Raidermatt, I do agree with you that Disney has made some mistakes that have hurt its attendance -- I don't believe the company is perfect. As DancingBear suggested, eliminating EE was a miscalculation on their part (which is why the company fixed it).

Overall, though, the attendance problems are not, IMO, WDW's fault. Contrary to assertions of a long string of cutbacks the fact is that WDW continuously expanded through the opening of AK. Prior to the opening of AK, each expansion had resulted in a proportional increase in overall attendance. AK didn't result in such an increase and revealed the saturation of the Orlando theme-park market. Increased competition from Universal, Sea World and others didn't help either. Tourists simply weren't extending their stays for longer periods of time to see all the additional attractions.

Then the economy went downhill, and it got a lot worse after 9/11, and attendance went way down. The impact isn't just at WDW. Hotels in Orlando have never been cheaper, and airlines are offering very cheap airfares, desperately trying to induce people to travel.

Now people expect WDW to keep adding new attractions like Mission Space and Philharmagic without shutting down any of the older ones. People expect WDW to be open the same hours it was when the economy was booming and the parks were full. And now people are angry with Disney and want to believe that the cuts are all Disney's fault.

That fine, because people can expect or believe whatever they want to ... but that doesn't make them right.

 

[jenjie]

I posted this on another thread as well, but I don't know what happened this week. It was definitely not peak season, but there were crowds. Lots of extra people b/c of cheerleading, dance, marching band, and choir competitions, as well as at least 2 conventions and spring training.

That being said, the decreased hours didn't end up hurting my family at all b/c we have preschoolers. It ended up being just enough time each day.

 

[TDC Nala]

I was in the MK on Tuesday, March 4, and I didn't go on a whole lot of rides. This was because there were at least 30 minute waits for everything major and the fastpass machines were operational only for the mountains. Why they wouldn't open up the other fastpass machines, I don't know. I've seen this configuration in December, but then the lines for the non-Fastpass attractions weren't nearly as long. I walked onto Pirates and the TTA and waited about 15 ninutes for the Haunted Mansion, but everything else I tried was too much of a wait for me.

By the way, I do not under any circumstances consider Beauty and the Beast to be a good alternative to the Hunchback show! I did go to see it in November and wasn't crazy about the adaptation. Better to have them both!

My last trip was in DVC accommodations and I had a car. I spent most of my time running around Orlando with friends and eating in my room or somewhere other than Disney. I used to be a one-to-three Disney parks a day kind of visitor. So I'm probably contributing to the attendance problem. I was at PI every night, though.