Currently Available DVC Resorts?

[Cruelladeville]

Since this has turned into a financing thread, I have a question related to paying down your loan--if Disney charges 10%, can't you help things alot by paying your loan off early? If you refinance your house--and I believe 10 years is the least the banks will refinance--might these two turn out nearly even? I'm no mathematician, can't you tell? I know that you could pay off your refinance early too, if there is no penalty for that, but don't forget that many banks charge to refinance. I paid a total of $1500 in order to refinance, and later I thought that perhaps the Disney alternative--and paying it off early--may have been a better idea, since there is a prepayment penalty for 5 years on my refinance. The rate was only 5.50%. Which choice is the more cost-effective?

 

[mgilmer]

I know the $80 from Disney, but I was speaking of on the resale markets. If I am going to pay cash, I will buy at resale (and a discount) from what Disney wants on the front end. BTW, what is the buyback "trigger" price for Disney on resale contracts, if anyone knows?

Mike

 

[DVCDAVE]

There is no official posting from Disney, but I believe DOC said something about $65.

MB is a program where they 'buy back ypur first years points for $10., but I would figure you would want to use them or, why would you buy in the first place ? You still have to pay the dues on something you aren't using.

Cruelladiville; I don't undrstand your question.....All loans can be paid off early. The lower interest rate is always the cheapest loan.

 

[chris1gill]

Okay, I just want to throw this out there for you... You said you needed 260 points, well a 260 point resale package will sell for LESS per point than a 150 point package. Also, if you were to keep adding on via resale, you'd keep getting hit with the 400.00 closing costs, AND the smaller the point packages the more they sell for!!

Here is what I would do, you're in great position to buy 260 points at BWV's @ 60.00 per point for a total of 15,600.00, pay the 10K you have, finance the 5,600 for 2 or 3 years (however long it will actually take you to pay it off)

Buying the larger point package will save you 5.00/point I think (I have no such documentation, just follow the prices) & it will save you 400 per additional closing

If you can do the home equity loan, that would be great, if you can grab a 0% credit card for a year, that would be great... Worse case scenario, grab a personal loan for 2 years & try to pay that off as fast as possible! OR, if your package comes with all the points, rent out the first 260 @ 10.00 per point... you'd only owe 3000.00...

I think this is very doable for you!

Oh, almost forgot, the buy back does not seem to be holding in the mid-sixties... definitely below 60.00 is a problem, but if there are no current points for a contract of 300+ points, you may get away with less $$ as Dean recently did...

 

[gmboy95]

reading this thread has given me a large ice crem headache....The way i look at it...I am quite sure disney is making a killing off of me, however i would pay double what i pay now for the amount of enjoyment we have had over the past few years. if i spend time thinking about how i may have saved a buck or two here or there on financing, it only depresses me.

 

[kem330]

I don't think it's going to be easy to find 260 points for $60.00/point. That is not that big of a contract. With Disney's price going up to $80/point it seems the resale prices have gone up as well. $62- 65 seems more realistic plus closing costs of $400-450.

 

[JimB.]

Allof the financing issues aside, (which give me a BAD headache ),

Right now there is a MB special for VB that cuts the price to $65/point & cuts HH price to $70/point. If location of home is not that important, & you think the 7-month window won't be a problem, then this may be one of the best deals around.

 

[Dean]

Obviously, there are some decisions that only you can make. Whether it's best to buy a smaller contract now and try to add later on OR to buy a larger contract now and work hard to pay for it seems to be the question. You will do better financially through resale. A thought or two I haven't really seen put forth in this thread. You said you wanted ON PROPERTY if I read your post correctly. BW should be doable at $62-65 per point for 150-270 points. LIkely at 150 you're looking at the higher per points cost and at a larger contract, maybe the lower end. The current points availability of that contract should affect the price and value. The closing costs and whether you have to reimburse the seller for points will also affect the final value. OKW should be slightly lower, more available and with more people willing to deal. Also remember that the maint fees are significantly less at OKW than BW, to the tune of almost $200 per year.

If you want BW, buy there but OKW will have lower fees, slightly lower buy in price and you'll need less points to stay there. For the $10K, the best you'll do without financing is about 150 points. Stay away from the buy back programs unless it's at least $10 pp. Don't be tempted to buy off property if that's not where you're going to stay even if it is cheaper. Look at each points package on it's on merrit. Don't discounts packages with no current points, they can sometimes be the best deal going. Also, don't ignore packages with a lot of extra points, they may indeed be worth more to you on a pp basis. You also may be able to buy a smaller package if it has a lot of extra points with it.

You should know that reimbursing the full fees may mean you're paying twice for maint fees on those points. Unlike traditional timeshares, it's not a question of paying this years fees to get this year points. You actually pay for the calendar year, not use year. Any amount you pay at closing is extra money in the seller pocket, not going to DVC. What's fair depends on the use year, points availability and time of year you're closing.

As for getting it at $60 per point, that's possible but not likely unless there aren't current points. You must decide how much of a gambler you want to be. Remember that it's very possible, even likely, that the price pp will go up again in the next 6 months or so. Resale will go up along with DVC somewhat. You need to decide whether the savings of buying a larger contract of lower pp costs and only one closing costs are worth the financing issue. Also, talke another look at the points tables to decide how many points you truly expect to need. I would build in a cushion of maybe 10% in the total points but it partly depends on what unit size, number of days and time of year you are looking at.

One other strategy would be to buy 150 points or so now and then to add on through DVC when the time comes, possibly in smaller increments. That gives you home resort priority at more than one resort, avoids the need to pay multiple closing costs and allows you to buy now what you can directly invest. Remember also that BW has standard view rooms which cost less points. If you can plan 11 months out and compromise slightly in this area, you can get by with less points. Good luck.

 

[Shontell_Crawford]

Originally posted by Dean

You should know that reimbursing the full fees may mean you're paying twice for maint fees on those points. Unlike traditional timeshares, it's not a question of paying this years fees to get this year points. You actually pay for the calendar year, not use year. Any amount you pay at closing is extra money in the seller pocket, not going to DVC. What's fair depends on the use year, points availability and time of year you're closing.
[/B]

I have to disagree with two points. You do not pay "twice" for maintenance on points through a resale. You pay for the current year's available points, then the next year's points the next immediate January. If you buy in December, yes, you might pay two years of dues back to back, but you should have two year's worth of points to use. I can give examples and further details if necessary.

Next, you may or may NOT be putting money in the seller's pocket when you pay the current year's dues. Have you considered that some people may be selling because they are in financial distress and haven't been paying their dues? In that case, the money goes directly to Disney. You, as the buyer, have no way of knowing each individual situation and a broker is not legally allowed to share that information with a buyer unless a seller has authorized him to do so. Which is also food for thought as to why some seller's can't be negotiable.
Strictly hypothetical example: If a seller lists a property for $1,000,owes $900 on the Disney loan, agrees to pay his broker $100, and hasn't paid maintenance fees and taxes for this year because he couldn't. All the points are available for you as a buyer, but the seller can't negotiate because he has no equity at all. When you buy this package, and "pay" the current year's dues because you are getting the points....the money goes to Disney, not the seller. This seller sees no cash, they just get rid of a financial hardship. Sometimes when you buy a resale, you are actually helping the seller!

Unfortunately for the sellers, I have seen many similar real life scenarios.

I thought you might want to be aware of other circumstances, as you might be in the seller's shoes someday.

All the best,
Shontell

 

[Dean]

Shontell, you and I have had this discussion before on an email list. DVC dues are paid yearly and are based on a Calendar year. If you buy from DVC during the year, you pay a prorated amount even though you get the full years points. Those buying BCV will pay from the date of closing, occupancy or Use year, whichever is later. When you pay in Jan, you are paying for X months of the then current use year and 12-X months of the upcoming use year. As someone who resells DVC, you should know this. If you advise clients otherwise, you are misleading them.

The following is a quote taken from the old Member Guidebook.

After your first year's dues billing, your dues are paid on an annual calendar basis from January 1 through December 31, regardless of the month your Use Year starts.

And from the New Member Guidebook.

Annual dues are due January 15. They are calculated based on the calendar year, not your Use Year.

While I understand that what you say is the norm in timeshares in general, it does not apply in the same way for DVC. Obviously all is negotiable but the neutral fees reimbursement for a June use year bought in Jan with all of the points there in June but none until then is 7 months of fees. No more and no less. If your assertion were true, there would be a full years fee due the first year when buying straight from DVC. Likewise, assuming full points the last years, there will be fees due the last year of the ownership including 1 month for Jan of 2042. Obviously if there is proration or some other reduction in points the last year or 2, that will affect the fees due.

The other point was referring to the basic mechanics of the closing. I could have said, if one is up to date on fees and loan payments, etc but did not feel it was necessary. Regardless, if there is a line listing for "this years" maint fees on your closing, it is money going to the seller. What it's used for is up to them. If it's used to clear up any issues such as late maint fees or loan payments is uportant but not part of the basics for the buyer. All the buyer cares about is clear title and the bottom line in costs and points.

 

[Shontell_Crawford]

Originally posted by Dean
Shontell, you and I have had this discussion before on an email list. DVC dues are paid yearly and are based on a Calendar year. If you buy from DVC during the year, you pay a prorated amount even though you get the full years points.

Dean - the previous discussion was based on resales, not buying directly from Disney. Had I been comparing the two, I would have included this fact.

Those buying BCV will pay from the date of closing, occupancy or Use year, whichever is later. When you pay in Jan, you are paying for X months of the then current use year and 12-X months of the upcoming use year. As someone who resells DVC, you should know this. If you advise clients otherwise, you are misleading them.

Dean - Having resold over a thousand DVC resales, I do know exactly how the billiing works. Disney starts billing in January 2002 for the points you receive on the use year anniversary date of 2002. So what you quoted is correct, but it contradicts your argument and solidifies mine. On January 31, 2042 your lease will expire, and you won't receive any points for 2042. I bet Disney won't be billing you in December and having a payment due on January 15 2042 - because you won't be getting anything. Which is my point. On a resale, you are paying dues for what you get. Period.
If you want to compare dues on a "new" purchase, which IS pro-rated, and I never said it wasn't, then we would be in agreement on apples to apples, I would imagine.



The following is a quote taken from the old Member Guidebook.
And from the New Member Guidebook.

While I understand that what you say is the norm in timeshares in general, it does not apply in the same way for DVC.

I guess that depends on your broker. It is the norm with all the brokers I've worked with who are familiar with DVC. There are plenty of brokers who haven't a clue. For your sake, I hope you never have to deal with them. I always get a good laugh when another broker calls me asking me if I have any Disney "weeks" because he has a hot buyer.

Obviously all is negotiable but the neutral fees reimbursement for a June use year bought in Jan with all of the points there in June but none until then is 7 months of fees. No more and no less. If your assertion were true, there would be a full years fee due the first year when buying straight from DVC.

Incorrect. My assertion was never a comparison to buying from Disney. Not once. I deal with people buying all year long. A comparison would have to be done on every single month, assuming a resale buyer was getting all the points from the seller from last year and/or the current year. Sorry, I don't have the time to spend that much time analyzing the month to month savings if someone waits to buy from Disney in December so they don't have to pay a full year's points in dues. My clients are looking to save money, period. When they come to me, I show them how it's done when compared to Disney. Each package I sell is different, each Disney incentive is different, and I've dealt with price increases from Disney since 1997. Trust me, I know the math.


Likewise, assuming full points the last years, there will be fees due the last year of the ownership including 1 month for Jan of 2042. Obviously if there is proration or some other reduction in points the last year or 2, that will affect the fees due.


I could be wrong, and I'll gladly admit it if you can get something from Disney saying otherwise, but as I stated earlier, You get zero points in 2042, therefore, nobody will have to pay dues come January 2042. No proration, nothing. Maybe the Disney rep I spoke to was wrong. Somehow I feel confident you'll get to the bottom and straighten this all out. I'm going to go to the Beach Club Grand Opening in the meantime.


The other point was referring to the basic mechanics of the closing. I could have said, if one is up to date on fees and loan payments, etc but did not feel it was necessary. Regardless, if there is a line listing for "this years" maint fees on your closing, it is money going to the seller.

Sorry, you are incorrect. Don't believe me? Stop paying your dues in January 2003...then sell your package in June and see how the money works out. My contract states, buyer/seller is responsible for the annual dues on XXX amount of points for 20XX year (as applicable to whom gets to USE the points) and guess who does the math? Disney. Somehow, I think you and I can trust them.

What it's used for is up to them. If it's used to clear up any issues such as late maint fees or loan payments is uportant but not part of the basics for the buyer.

All the buyer cares about is clear title and the bottom line in costs and points.

Exactly. Which is why had you ever bought from me you would know I give each buyer and each seller the bottom line in dollars, go over everything, and put everything in my contracts. I work hard to make sure everyone is clear, comfortable and happy on both sides or it doesn't happen. I hope someday you and I will have the chance to work together so I can prove that to you.

Kind regards,
Shontell

 

[Dean]

Shontell, I don't have want to argue with you, but if I must. What DVC does IS the point, they do prorate the first year for the reasons I stated in my previous note. To say there is a different standard for resale than what DVC does is unreasonable. If you stop paying your dues they will cut you off before you use year, not at it, unless your use year is so early that they will cut you slack enought to get there. The quotes I gave prove that DVC charges dues on a Calendar year not use year, if you chose not to see it, that's your loss plus your customers. Maybe all those people need a refund.

 

[Shontell_Crawford]

Dean,

We aren't arguing. We are both seeing and saying the same thing, just in a different manner.

Yes, Disney dues are paid on a Calendar year, for that year's points. In January 2002, each member pays a bill for the points he is allocated for the 2002 use year. Some members use year's start in February, while others start in December. Regardless, everyone pays the previous January.

Now, had you ever been a customer of mine, you would know that is the way the dues are paid, and the way they are presented on my contracts. Apparently you would rather attack my professionalism and question my knowledge before even dealing with me.

If I were "mistreating" my clients, Disney would have reprimanded me a long time ago, not to mention the State of Florida by which my profession is regulated.

If I even remotely felt like I was "wronging" my clients, I would be the first to stand up and admit it. If you knew me, you might agree rather than attack my character and professionalism.

This will be my last post on this issue.
I'm sure you will need to have the last word on the matter, I hope it will be a kind one.

Best regards,
Shontell

 

[ralphd]

The preceding has been a paid political advertisement.

What is the topic of this thread?

ralphd

 

[DVC1996]

I got a headache reading this thread but just wanted to comment that in 1996 we decided against a resale ( Not from Shontelll...btw) because we were going to have to pay dues on a whole year of points with an inability to use those points ( because it didn't coincide with our vacation times) and would be unable to bank the points because of the rules regarding banking. Obviously, this wasn't the right resale for us. It might have been a bargain for someone else who could use those points before the use year ended.

 

[Dean]

Since you're giving me the last word, I'll take it, LOL. I'm not sure about attacking you, only stating what I feel is correct but I can see how you could feel that way. You are saying everyone pays in Jan "for their points" and I'm saying this is flatly wrong. Therefore we are not saying the same thing unless I've misread your posts on this board and on DVCtalk. Under your terms, you would pay a full years fees year one and none the last year. Under those employed by DVC and what I am saying is you would pay a prorated amount year one and a prorated amount the last year, any yes I do have it directly from DVC but not in writing. It doesn't matter if you start from the beginning and finish with DVC in 2042, you would pay the same in the long run. If you buy resale, it matters by as many as $3.66 per point at BW for a December use year, assuming all upcoming points and no others. Obviously the overall package is the key for any individual buyer and the final product and price is the ultimate decision maker.

I've talked to DVC admin about this in the past as did the salesperson at Century 21 that sold me my second OKW contract in 1998. He was surprised when DVC told him that the dues are for the Calendar Year and NOT the use year and that paying only a prorated amount based on the use year and points availability was appropriate.

As far your professionalism, I have never heard anyone dissaisfied with your service. Many have spoken kindly of you on this board and on DVCtalk. Even after this discussion between you and I a year or so ago on DVCtalk which went similar to this one, I've given your contact info to a number of people and see no reason for that to change. It does however irk me when the one most of us feel should know the most about DVC resales is giving out one piece of incorrect information when I feel they should know the correct info. Might I suggest you ask your contacts at DVC two very direct and easy questions. 1. Are the first years dues prorated when bought through Disney? and 2. are the fees for a calendar year or use year? I think you'll be surprised to hear yes and calendar year.

 

[Dean]

I've always prided myself on being non personal and sticking to the facts even on difficult topics. I failed in this instance and feel badly about that. While I still maintain the facts as I stated them, I am truly sorry for the personal nature included. I think Shontell and I both let out past experiences and strong feelings influence our positions. For that I am truly sorry and apologize to the list, moderators, webmasters and most importantly; Shontell.

 

[RobDoc]

I'll chime in on this one and agree 100% with Dean.

Disney will always prorate the maintenance fees based on the remaining time in the calendar year. They base the fees on a calendar year- regardless of the use year.

I have purchased 3 resales and have argued this same point with the realtor involved. I have also not considered some resales based on the same principle.

While the owner has paid the maintenance fee for the entire calendar year, he was charged maintenance fees based on a prorated schedule from DVC. If points have been borrowed from the next use year, the maintenance fees will still be owed in January for the same fees. If banked fees are involved, consideration can be made for the lack of fees on those points.

While the maintenance fees often are not a deal breaker, they should be figured into the financial package being considered!

IMHO!