Current owners: Do you feel that renters are impacting resort availability?

[EpcotPhoenician]

I'm interested in purchasing DVC. I live local and prefer weekend staycations, so don't care much about getting an entire week at any particular resort. I suppose I would fall into the "sleep around points" group.

I've noticed on several Facebook groups, a number of DVC members are renting a (seemingly) bizarre number of confirmed reservations, all for popular weeks (Memorial Day, 4th of July, RunDisney, etc.). Is it possible that they legitimately reserved those weeks, and no longer need the reservation? Sure. But it just seems like many of these DVC owners are "playing" travel agent with their membership and reserving the most popular weeks, with the intention of renting the points. Examples below.

The last thing I want is to be battling with these people for particular dates and stressing over my bookings. So, my question for current DVC owners is whether or not this is a concern for you, or something Disney is aware of and plans on putting an end to.

Mod deleted actual rentals. We do not allow those to be posted.

 

[WxKristin]

Watching the traffic on these Facebook groups, the biggest offender is with the AKL-Jumbo value studios. There aren't many of these rooms, yet I always see posts renting these rooms.

 

[Sandisw]

Nope, because it’s owners who are booking the rooms. Some of the high demand rentals out there are also the ones that are popular and even If rentals were stopped, those rooms would still have the issue of availability at the exact same rate as it does now.

 

[EpcotPhoenician]

Nope, because it’s owners who are booking the rooms. Some of the high demand rentals out there are also the ones that are popular and even If rentals were stopped, those rooms would still have the issue of availability at the exact same rate as it does now.

But it’s owners renting them with the intention of putting them up for rent to non members…? Unless I’m misunderstanding something.

 

[JackosinDIS]

If they weren’t being reserved and rented, those dates would still be reserved by owners who are using the room. I think renting does increase the competition for certain types of rooms and certain dates (looking at you BWV standard view studios), but it’s not like the dates would all hang around until the 7 month mark if renters didn’t exist.

 

[Sandisw]

But it’s owners renting them with the intention of putting them up for rent to non members…? Unless I’m misunderstanding something.

I know and it doesn’t bother me, I don’t really care who an owner lets use their room and I don’t think renting is what causes the issues with availability.

It’s too much demand for too few rooms. I bet many would not care how many owners rent SSR rooms because there are always plenty of rooms there to still book.

But, renting SV rooms at BWV upset people because there simply are not enough of them…even if rental of those units were stopped, there would still be many owners who are shut out because many more want them.

And, my comments are not about whether or not a membership is in violation of the commercial clause. The question is whether rentals is what impacts availability and I dont think it does.

Hard to get rooms will be hard to get even without rentals…and, TBH, if the internet didn’t exist to the degree it did for people to advertise rentals, most would have no idea what rooms are being rented and which ones are not.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Yes, it is a concern. I understand how it may not bother some folks that these commercial renters, who are likely using scraping programs, snag the most in-demand rooms. There is no other way to rationally explain how a few of these rental brokers are able to get so many of those rooms. So, technically, it is an owner "using" their points. But, there doesn't seem to be an even playing field for the everyday owner to compete with rental brokers in that manner for those rooms.

If these brokers are, in fact, leveraging scrips, then it does effect availability.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Your original supposition is incorrect. I'm not sure Disney knows what you think you know, but I know they don't have any plans to do anything about it, at least in terms of resorts under the original TOS. They don't have a dog in the fight, so they don't care. The rooms 'get gone' and they're going to 'get gone anyway. Disney needs 100% occupancy of the TS. They don't care who's in the rooms.

Do I care? No, but only because nothing is going to be done and there's nothing I can do about it. I try really hard not to worry about things I can't control as I have gotten older. I try not to worry about most things now as a matter of fact. Most of the things I worried about when I was younger never came to fruition. There was a great life lesson in that. It just took too long to learn.

 

[sndral]

I'm interested in purchasing DVC. I live local and prefer weekend staycations, so don't care much about getting an entire week at any particular resort. I suppose I would fall into the "sleep around points" group.

I've noticed on several Facebook groups, a number of DVC members are renting a (seemingly) bizarre number of confirmed reservations, all for popular weeks (Memorial Day, 4th of July, RunDisney, etc.). Is it possible that they legitimately reserved those weeks, and no longer need the reservation? Sure. But it just seems like many of these DVC owners are "playing" travel agent with their membership and reserving the most popular weeks, with the intention of renting the points. Examples below.

The last thing I want is to be battling with these people for particular dates and stressing over my bookings. So, my question for current DVC owners is whether or not this is a concern for you, or something Disney is aware of and plans on putting an end to.

View attachment 852081



View attachment 852083

DVC prohibits commercial renting, & they’ve given themselves the ability to define what that is. Several years ago they set the number of rentals above which they’d assume commercial at 20 per annum, they have leeway to change that, though.
Recently w/ the CFW legal documents DVC used more robust language to define what commercial renting is - there are lots of opinions about whether this signals DVC will start to enforce the no commercial renting everywhere, just at CFW, or not at all.
Here’s a link to the thread that delved into all of that https://www.disboards.com/threads/new-definition-of-rental-activity.3939178/

 

[kilik64]

It’s literally a non issue. Points are points, when people complain about rentals it’s just sour grapes they didn’t get the room for the dates they wanted.

It’s simple supply and demand.

 

[DVC Doctor]

I'm interested in purchasing DVC. I live local and prefer weekend staycations, so don't care much about getting an entire week at any particular resort. I suppose I would fall into the "sleep around points" group.

I've noticed on several Facebook groups, a number of DVC members are renting a (seemingly) bizarre number of confirmed reservations, all for popular weeks (Memorial Day, 4th of July, RunDisney, etc.). Is it possible that they legitimately reserved those weeks, and no longer need the reservation? Sure. But it just seems like many of these DVC owners are "playing" travel agent with their membership and reserving the most popular weeks, with the intention of renting the points. Examples below.

The last thing I want is to be battling with these people for particular dates and stressing over my bookings. So, my question for current DVC owners is whether or not this is a concern for you, or something Disney is aware of and plans on putting an end to.

You are clearly an active DISboard member, so I think your concerns are valid. My opinion is YES, these spec rentals are negatively impacting any DVC member that wants to book a popular week as the pros are aggressively going after the most in demand weeks at popular resorts and spec renting for maximal profit. As someone posted, nobody is getting too worked up over SSR or OKW studios, but any value room, BCV, BWV, Poly, etc are getting harder harder to book, even at the 11 month opening.

The issue for me is the spec rentals as someone (or many people) are strategically booking the most in demand weeks like Christmas, or July 4 or Thanksgiving and booking the cheapest option like value rooms and then renting them for maximum they can (like well over $20pp) and technically this is allowed, but rather sleezy to me (in my opinion). Where if they simply booked rooms on request, rather than spec rental, that would be more equitable to everyone. But again, they are gaming the system for maximal profit and that technically is allowed.

However, my concern with your post is that you are local and looking for sleep around points, and prefer weekend trips and unless you are booking at 11 months out, you are not battling anyone. The challenge for you as a local, is that you may want to book last minute trips with short booking windows and will probably be disappointed if you want studios at popular resorts as those book up during the 8-11 month booking window. If you buy DVC at a specific location like BLT, then you will have maximum opportunity to reserve 11 months out, but you may or may not do that.

Remember at 7 months before your checkin date - ALL DVC points are equal and the most popular or smallest resorts sellout around that time.

 

[lilsonicfan]

I don't think it's so much to do with "commercial"/bulk renters; as others have pointed out, there's a finite supply of points and rooms and someone would be using them if those people aren't.

I think what makes this seem more of an issue is the proliferation of social media groups in which it is now so easy to rent out points and to find renters. Maybe to a degree, these groups also allow bulk renters to continue this type of activity. But, if they didn't, I don't really believe that the availability would be so much better.

 

[BeachClub2014]

To dismiss the concern by saying that it's just a matter of demand outstripping availability is too simplistic a response. Of course, there will be some room types and times of the year where demand will be outsized due to availability. That's why mega brokers use web tools to disproportionately scoop those rooms up and offer them rent at a premium. They aren't using those tools to lock in SSR 1-bedrooms in August.

The issue for some, perhaps many, is the advantage those tools give the mega brokers in obtaining the reservations. If I am competing against @Sandisw for the same room, and she beats me to the reservation, then so be it. But that's not what's happening when you're competing against the rental brokers. They've tilted the playing field to their advantage and that doesn't seem fair.

That's not just sour grapes, as suggested; it's a legitimate concern articulated in response to the original question. You need not agree with the concern or the point of view, but there is no need to be dismissive or pedantic.

 

[tom1944]

I have only owned for a year so not a lot of booking experience.

We have been able to book the exact resorts and room type we want on our 3 reservations

We do not travel during the busiest time or request the most difficult to get room

 

[tx911]

I find this issue very similar to walking reservations.

Not technically against the rules, but not the way the product was intended to be used.

 

[kanerf]

I think for the first two years post-COVID when many had a bunch of points to use and pent-up demand to use them, things were a bit crazy and availability was difficult. Things seem to be getting calmer now. I seldom have issues getting what I want at the 11 month window at resorts where I own, including Value and Club level at AKL. Most recently, the ADR experience was also sweet, being able to get basically anything including Space 220 and Topolino's.

 

[kilik64]

Most recently, the ADR experience was also sweet, being able to get basically anything including Space 220 and Topolino's.

You are not kidding, we had the easiest adr experience we’ve ever had booking for memorial day week, even got the recently reopened 1900 park fare super easy.

 

[Sandisw]

To dismiss the concern by saying that it's just a matter of demand outstripping availability is too simplistic a response. Of course, there will be some room types and times of the year where demand will be outsized due to availability. That's why mega brokers use web tools to disproportionately scoop those rooms up and offer them rent at a premium. They aren't using those tools to lock in SSR 1-bedrooms in August.

The issue for some, perhaps many, is the advantage those tools give the mega brokers in obtaining the reservations. If I am competing against @Sandisw for the same room, and she beats me to the reservation, then so be it. But that's not what's happening when you're competing against the rental brokers. They've tilted the playing field to their advantage and that doesn't seem fair.

That's not just sour grapes, as suggested; it's a legitimate concern articulated in response to the original question. You need not agree with the concern or the point of view, but there is no need to be dismissive or pedantic.

My response though was about availability and not commercial renting.

If renting was completely banned, I don’t think people would see any meaningful change in room availability for the rooms that people really take issue with seeing being offered.

But, you are correct that we all get to be okay with our opinions and I get that it matters to some who was able to get the room.

 

[BeachClub2014]

My response though was about availability and not commercial renting.

If renting was completely banned, I don’t think people would see any meaningful change in room availability for the rooms that people really take issue with seeing being offered.

But, you are correct that we all get to be okay with our opinions and I get that it matters to some who was able to get the room.

My comments have all been directed at availability, as well. I haven't suggested a ban on renting so not sure if your reference to such was intended for me. I do not think renting should be banned.

The issue for me is rental brokers using web tools to snag access to premium rooms at premiums times. Doing so tilts the playing in their favor and disadvantages the average owner. If you and others are fine with that, then cool. I am not.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

I do not think or worry about it because nearly all villas across the resorts will be reserved by a combination of members and non-members. Also, with over a decade of membership experience, I can share that we have never been booked out of a desired travel week. While the available resort may not have been a first choice, we have always been able to go whenever we have planned to go. Stalking the DVC member website and working waitlists can make a reservation possible.