Cuban Refugees

[Tonka's Skipper]

What immediately occurs to me is the POSSIBILITY of such "drifting refugees" not being refugees at all.

But maybe well armed and simply playing possum??

Not likely off Cuba, but not impossible either!

Just like in the parks, there is a good deal of security personal, camers, etc on the vessels you do not notice. This is the same for most, if not all cruise lines.

All cruise vessels have a secure room/brig.

There are a large number of crew members trained to protect the vessel, both with and outwith arms.

There are secured rooms/safes with a rather large arsenal of different types of weapons. These include the new non lethal types with sound and light bombs which will disable a person/persons

The latest new weapon is a lazer designed to heat and explode a pirate/terrorist boat engine. The last I have heard is that the lazer is in final testing now.

AKK

 

[Uncleromulus]

Just thinking that the Cruise Ships had better not get too complacent and assume all of these "rafts' are Cubans searching for freedom. It just MIGHT not be so.

I'm sure it's classified, but I wonder just what "weapons" a Cruise Ship actually carries and how well trained are certain crew in using them.

 

[jilljill]

Can we please stay on track...... thank you

 

[Magic3forme]

We were on this sailing too, and it was scary to see that little raft boat in the middle of the ocean. I was wondering what happened to them.. thanks for the update!

I thought it was scarier to see the 2nd empty boat. hopefully they were rescued.

 

[trimix]

Wow I'm surprised they turn around the entire vessel. I thought most cruise ships have a smaller motor boat on board that they could deploy. I've seen things like this on larger private yachts so I guess I just assumed cruise ships would also have them.

Yes, they have a small launch onboard, but it is not something they are just going to leave behind! Even a large private yacht would approach a vessel in distress and wait there as the launch and its crew provides aid to the vessel in distress.

Look at it another way - the Disney Dream cruises at 22 knots. Suppose the launch cruises at 25 knots (it may not even be able to go that fast; I don't know) and let's suppose that it takes half an hour after getting the launch into the water for it to approach the raft, evaluate the situation, and convince the passengers to come aboard. Maybe the Dream was one nautical mile away from the raft when they got the launch into the water; if so, the Dream is 12 nautical miles away from the launch when it starts heading back to the dream. With an overtake speed of three knots, it would take FOUR HOURS for the launch to catch up! If anybody on the raft needed medical help, the Captain would have failed in his duty to help mariners in distress.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Just thinking that the Cruise Ships had better not get too complacent and assume all of these "rafts' are Cubans searching for freedom. It just MIGHT not be so.

I'm sure it's classified, but I wonder just what "weapons" a Cruise Ship actually carries and how well trained are certain crew in using them.

all of the real crew/sailors have some vessel seciruty training.IE *how to repel boarders*

There are also *teams* set up and they have a great deal of training.

There are also regular drills, same as for boat and fire .etc.

AKK

 

[Capt_BJ]

It wasn't... I was explaining why our coast guard doesn't usually pick Cuban refugees up unless they really need help. Your Welcome

I don't know who's coast guard is your coast guard but having patrolled the carib for better than 10 years on US Coast Guard cutters I can tell you with no doubt in my mind that the US Coast Guard 'picks up' anyone in a raft ... chug ... overloaded boat or apparent distress; as well as investigating vessels suspected of human smuggling.

What the US Coast Guard does not do in many cases is bring the Cubans so encountered to the US - which did happen in the past. This is due to current US policy called 'feet wet' which in a nut shell says that a Cuban found at sea will be repatriated while a Cuban that reaches US soil (feet dry) is afforded {a degree of} due process. Cubans found at sea are in most cases held at sea until a repatriation is arranged. This is all spelled out in US policy, treaty and international agreements.

To the post that asked is this the same for all 'refugees' or migrants found at sea... The short answer is no it is not the same for everyone. There are standing treaties for some nationalities and others are a case by case situation.

During my years on deck and in the Command chair in the Carib' I participate in the interdiction/rescue of countless Cuban, Haitian and Chinese nationals all seeking a backdoor entry to the US via international waters. In the vast majority of cases I handled the situation first a Search and Rescue - the people were typically found on an unseaworthy vessel and needed help/water/food. Once safety of life was ensured we moved on to determination of the status of the survivors which typically was refered to another agency and/or the Dept of State for resolution.... The number of individuals I encountered in this manner is in the thousands.

 

[TXDCLfan]

I don't know who's coast guard is your coast guard but having patrolled the carib for better than 10 years on US Coast Guard cutters I can tell you with no doubt in my mind that the US Coast Guard 'picks up' anyone in a raft ... chug ... overloaded boat or apparent distress; as well as investigating vessels suspected of human smuggling.

What the US Coast Guard does not do in many cases is bring the Cubans so encountered to the US - which did happen in the past. This is due to current US policy called 'feet wet' which in a nut shell says that a Cuban found at sea will be repatriated while a Cuban that reaches US soil (feet dry) is afforded {a degree of} due process. Cubans found at sea are in most cases held at sea until a repatriation is arranged. This is all spelled out in US policy, treaty and international agreements.

To the post that asked is this the same for all 'refugees' or migrants found at sea... The short answer is no it is not the same for everyone. There are standing treaties for some nationalities and others are a case by case situation.

During my years on deck and in the Command chair in the Carib' I participate in the interdiction/rescue of countless Cuban, Haitian and Chinese nationals all seeking a backdoor entry to the US via international waters. In the vast majority of cases I handled the situation first a Search and Rescue - the people were typically found on an unseaworthy vessel and needed help/water/food. Once safety of life was ensured we moved on to determination of the status of the survivors which typically was refered to another agency and/or the Dept of State for resolution.... The number of individuals I encountered in this manner is in the thousands.

Great info nice to get information from some one that has been there and done that so to speak.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I don't know who's coast guard is your coast guard but having patrolled the carib for better than 10 years on US Coast Guard cutters I can tell you with no doubt in my mind that the US Coast Guard 'picks up' anyone in a raft ... chug ... overloaded boat or apparent distress; as well as investigating vessels suspected of human smuggling.

What the US Coast Guard does not do in many cases is bring the Cubans so encountered to the US - which did happen in the past. This is due to current US policy called 'feet wet' which in a nut shell says that a Cuban found at sea will be repatriated while a Cuban that reaches US soil (feet dry) is afforded {a degree of} due process. Cubans found at sea are in most cases held at sea until a repatriation is arranged. This is all spelled out in US policy, treaty and international agreements.

To the post that asked is this the same for all 'refugees' or migrants found at sea... The short answer is no it is not the same for everyone. There are standing treaties for some nationalities and others are a case by case situation.

During my years on deck and in the Command chair in the Carib' I participate in the interdiction/rescue of countless Cuban, Haitian and Chinese nationals all seeking a backdoor entry to the US via international waters. In the vast majority of cases I handled the situation first a Search and Rescue - the people were typically found on an unseaworthy vessel and needed help/water/food. Once safety of life was ensured we moved on to determination of the status of the survivors which typically was refered to another agency and/or the Dept of State for resolution.... The number of individuals I encountered in this manner is in the thousands.

well said Captain!

AKK

 

[jilljill]

I don't know who's coast guard is your coast guard but having patrolled the carib for better than 10 years on US Coast Guard cutters I can tell you with no doubt in my mind that the US Coast Guard 'picks up' anyone in a raft ... chug ... overloaded boat or apparent distress; as well as investigating vessels suspected of human smuggling.

What the US Coast Guard does not do in many cases is bring the Cubans so encountered to the US - which did happen in the past. This is due to current US policy called 'feet wet' which in a nut shell says that a Cuban found at sea will be repatriated while a Cuban that reaches US soil (feet dry) is afforded {a degree of} due process. Cubans found at sea are in most cases held at sea until a repatriation is arranged. This is all spelled out in US policy, treaty and international agreements.

To the post that asked is this the same for all 'refugees' or migrants found at sea... The short answer is no it is not the same for everyone. There are standing treaties for some nationalities and others are a case by case situation.

During my years on deck and in the Command chair in the Carib' I participate in the interdiction/rescue of countless Cuban, Haitian and Chinese nationals all seeking a backdoor entry to the US via international waters. In the vast majority of cases I handled the situation first a Search and Rescue - the people were typically found on an unseaworthy vessel and needed help/water/food. Once safety of life was ensured we moved on to determination of the status of the survivors which typically was refered to another agency and/or the Dept of State for resolution.... The number of individuals I encountered in this manner is in the thousands.

Thank you so much for explaining this from someone that has encountered it first hand!

 

[Capt_BJ]

one of the more intersting Cuban vessels I've seen . . .

I don't think just a 'hood' would float . . .

 

[TXDCLfan]

one of the more intersting Cuban vessels I've seen . . .

I don't think just a 'hood' would float . . .

Please tell me this is a joke How the heck do you make a car float??

 

[Capt_BJ]

Please tell me this is a joke How the heck do you make a car float??

not a joke

this is a REAL picture of the lengths folks from Cuba will go to, to escape their predicament .....

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

Please tell me this is a joke How the heck do you make a car float??

Watch Mythbusters or Scrapyard Challenge! lol!


Ex Techie

 

[Kastaway Kev]

I don't know who's coast guard is your coast guard but having patrolled the carib for better than 10 years on US Coast Guard cutters I can tell you with no doubt in my mind that the US Coast Guard 'picks up' anyone in a raft ...]

Bravo Zulu......Semper Paratus!

 

[Evi]

I don't know who's coast guard is your coast guard but having patrolled the carib for better than 10 years on US Coast Guard cutters I can tell you with no doubt in my mind that the US Coast Guard 'picks up' anyone in a raft ... chug ... overloaded boat or apparent distress; as well as investigating vessels suspected of human smuggling.

What the US Coast Guard does not do in many cases is bring the Cubans so encountered to the US - which did happen in the past. This is due to current US policy called 'feet wet' which in a nut shell says that a Cuban found at sea will be repatriated while a Cuban that reaches US soil (feet dry) is afforded {a degree of} due process. Cubans found at sea are in most cases held at sea until a repatriation is arranged. This is all spelled out in US policy, treaty and international agreements.

To the post that asked is this the same for all 'refugees' or migrants found at sea... The short answer is no it is not the same for everyone. There are standing treaties for some nationalities and others are a case by case situation.

During my years on deck and in the Command chair in the Carib' I participate in the interdiction/rescue of countless Cuban, Haitian and Chinese nationals all seeking a backdoor entry to the US via international waters. In the vast majority of cases I handled the situation first a Search and Rescue - the people were typically found on an unseaworthy vessel and needed help/water/food. Once safety of life was ensured we moved on to determination of the status of the survivors which typically was refered to another agency and/or the Dept of State for resolution.... The number of individuals I encountered in this manner is in the thousands.

Thats right the coast guard has dramatically changed how it deals with cubans in the water it was on the news recently how they maced and water hosed cubans trying to get to shore not so long ago. Its comments like "those people" and the one I highlighted above that truly have a note of just how racist people still are. My coast guard as a US Citizen and Military family is the same as yours.

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

Evi,

Although macing and water hosing immigrants is deplorable, what right do they have to illegally enter a foreign country?
Sure they are willing to risk their lives to reach US shores, but not every immigrant that want's to live the "American Dream" should be able to just arrive and settle or else the US might as well lay off all border controls and allow anyone and everyone to?

Ex Techie

 

[Talking Hands]

I used to live in Miami, and at the time, any Cuban who arrived ashore from Cuba could stay and would not be repatriated (Elian Gonzalez aside). The same did not apply to Haitians. Is this still true?

Yes it is still true.

 

[TXDCLfan]

Evi,

Although macing and water hosing immigrants is deplorable, what right do they have to illegally enter a foreign country?
Sure they are willing to risk their lives to reach US shores, but not every immigrant that want's to live the "American Dream" should be able to just arrive and settle or else the US might as well lay off all border controls and allow anyone and everyone to?

Ex Techie

I did a quick search on this subject and it looks like quite often the coast guard is assaulted by the refugees with anything from sticks and rocks to machetes.

 

[jilljill]

Thats right the coast guard has dramatically changed how it deals with cubans in the water it was on the news recently how they maced and water hosed cubans trying to get to shore not so long ago. Its comments like "those people" and the one I highlighted above that truly have a note of just how racist people still are. My coast guard as a US Citizen and Military family is the same as yours.

I will respond even tho your post is not directed to me. I can see why you were being asked who's Coast Guard you were referring to since you didn't mention you are in the US (and a citizen) and you don't have a location listed, these boards are global and people from many different countries post here.

I do not see anything in Capt_BJ's post that is racist or even remotely comes across as racist. I see him as giving us the facts on how refugees are handled by the US Coast Guard and other entities.



I can see that this thread is going no where fast and it's time to shut it down before it gets any more political than it already has.