Cub Scout $$ vent, am I being cheap?

[disneymom3]

Cub Scouts in my experience is different from Girl Scouts in this way. The trips aren't presented to the boys, the boys don't come up with the ideas and aren't even told how much they cost. All of that is communicated only to the parents. The only time my sons know anything about them is when they have to do something specific for it, like their last camping trip DS had to pack his own daypack for a 3 mile hike. He still never knew how much the trip was going to cost.

That is something I really liked in Girl Scouts, it is really a good learning experience for the girls and helps them work as a team to make decisions.

I am thinking my daughter was in one heck of a dud GS troop. Our girls never knew the costs, trips and activities were decided by the leader and we were informed of them as were what badges they were going to be working on. DD sold a bajillion cookies and the only activity that we didn't have to pay extra for was a trip to Build a Bear at the end of the year where they each had I believe a $15 budget. It stunk, honestly. And I offerred to help a LOT and was turned down.

Cub scouts OTOH, the boys voted what extra badges they want to work on, they are enouraged to do things on their own. Everything is paid for by dues, sign up fee which was $18 and the fundraisers. The boys are included in every decision that is made and one den runs the pack meetings each month including planning the snack and extra activities that are going to be offerred. Obviously, the littler ones have more input from the adults, buy my son is in Webelos 1 and the boys are already excited about running the January meeting.

Just goes to show that the adults who are in charge really set the tone of things IMO.

 

[cakesnkids]

I am charter organization head as well as unit leader for the local pack here. I can tell you that I would NEVER sanction that trip. To me, it's not what scouting is about. Our boys are expected to earn every penny that this pack spends on them. They KNOW what the money goes to, each year they earn their camp scholarships by selling bbq chicken dinners. We just got done camping, they chose the activities we did, we earned badges, slept in the woods and CAMPED.

 

[badblackpug]

My son isn't in scouts, and won't be for a variety of reasons, but I don't think you are being cheap. While $230 is a good value for the trip described, lot's of families, particularly in this economy, do not have $230 worth of wiggle room in their budget.

While, yes, children need to learn that they can't have everything, the problem here, as I see it, with the OP's boy scout group is that they don't offer lower budget trips. Just larger, more expensive activities, so unless your family can afford these, you don't get to participate in any trips. I applaud the OP for speaking up. Others may decline the trip, but out of pride or shame, may not admit why.

As for volunteering, not everyone has the time. I work, and in addition to a 12 and 8 year old, I have a newborn and a toddler at home. My time is pretty tight, so I can completely understand the OP's position.

OP, maybe you can do all the research into lower budget trips and activities and the present it, in written form, along with contact information to the group leaders?

 

[bucket o' butter]

As a former Girl Scout leader and a current and former parent of a Cub Scout, I think that is a lot of money to ask. Yes, the price is worth it, but that isn't the point. The point is that they shouldn't even offer trips like this if fundraising isn't available to offset the price. Now, if a parent wishes to opt out of fundraising and pay the full price, then that is a different story. My oldest son's scout group went on an overnight ski trip, but they sold candy bars to help with the cost. The final cost was about $20 per person. Anyway, I think that is a lot of money to ask from parents, especially at Christmas time.

 

[tiggspring]

I also have fourth grade girl scouts and run my troop in a similar fashion. I don't even make them have uniforms. We have at least one girl in our troop where money is REALLY tight and I always consider her before planning anything.

Our troop is small and not terribly involved - not a ton of cookie sales or anything, so we don't get to do too much - but what we do we ALL are able to do - or at least no one is left out because of finances. Or we offer council or service unit activities to the girls and their families independently - i.e. you can go to camp, I'm not stopping you. But I'm also not organizing it, meeting there as a troop, etc.

Boy Scouts seems to have a very different model - there are similar issues with troops around here.

I'm a mom with a 5th grade girl scout and 3rd grade boy scout. You are not wrong about the costs. That $200 is an entire paycheck for a family living on minimum wage. Scouts is supposed to be about community service and being park of a "pack" too many trips like this make it hard for those of us with more than one child and/ or those who do not make upper middle class incomes to participate. That does not build "community"

For our family trips for both have been mostly local and the scout is usually paid for by troop money. That being said I find boy scouts much more expensive for what we get. The popcorn prices were so high this year that NOYONE would buy from either of my DH employers. This meant they wanted us to buy $200 ourselves to meet goals. There was no way that was happening this year as my husband started his phd and money is tight and works several jobs already. People audibly gasped at the supermarket the day we were selling. IMHO Girl Scouts does a better job of keeping scouting costs and fundraiser's in perspective. We have always been able to sell enough to keep our GS troop going. We usually have two camp overs a year. two to three Museum or day activity trips on top of all the other things we do. Sometimes Moms pay sometimes not but girls almost always go with troop funds. Don't feel bad about not going. Not many families have $200+ for a single weekend of scout activities. Boy scouts needs to see that we are in a recession and plan things accordingly. .

 

[tyniknate]

We are a scouting family and I would never plan an event like this without first talking with parents and doing some major fundraising. This is my tenth year as a leader, with one DS working on his eagle, in the OA and also in a venturing crew; other DS is getting ready to cross from webelos into boy scouts; DH is the assistant cubmaster and will cross to be a leader in boy scouts; I am committee chair and will stay with cub scouts as we have one more son who will be joining cubs in the next 18 months. This type of event doesn't seem to be what scouting is about. The point of scouting is to have functions where everyone can participate and no one feels bad because they can't take the money to go to an event. We, as a group, rented our local boy scout camp and had a family camp out as a yearly event this year. The whole camp cost us $125 to rent for everyone. Supplies were approx $400, including food and crafts, and everyone had a great time. We had 145 people show up and charged $3 per person for the whole weekend. We tie-dyed shirts, had a huge obstacle course, played games, had a water carnival and had tons and tons of food. Plus, the kids just loved hanging out and running around and not having all the structured time. The kids and parents are still talking about it and asking when we can do it again. They want to have a winter campout this time. Point is, I always consider the finances of families when planning events. What good is spending all the time and energy planning events if only a part of the group can participate.
In boy scouts we had a majority of our boys (all who wanted to go) go to Philmont this past summer. It was made very clear that all boys who wanted to go would have every opportunity to raise funds to be able to attend. It wasn't knocking and going door-to-door selling stuff nobody wants. We planned fundraising dinners, a burger burn at sam's club, car washes etc. Every boy who wanted to go raised their funds 100% to go there. I think part of the scouting experience is the budgeting and financing part of the equation. What good is it if you hand over $1200 for a trip and they've learned nothing from that part of it. It's a great learning opportunity and that's what scouting is about. It's a character building experience and being left out because you can't afford to attend a trip is a real crush for kids.
Maybe you should consider changing groups. Not all packs and troops operate in the manner you've described. Some of us are family-centered and do all we can to have it be that way. It must work because our cub pack has quadrupled over the past six years and we now have more kids than the other four packs in the area combined.
As for Cub scouts or boy scouts going to WDW as a trip? What part of scouting does this involve? I'll have to see about earning my mickey merit badge next time we go to WDW .

 

[tiggspring]

We are a scouting family and I would never plan an event like this without first talking with parents and doing some major fundraising. This is my tenth year as a leader, with one DS working on his eagle, in the OA and also in a venturing crew; other DS is getting ready to cross from webelos into boy scouts; DH is the assistant cubmaster and will cross to be a leader in boy scouts; I am committee chair and will stay with cub scouts as we have one more son who will be joining cubs in the next 18 months. This type of event doesn't seem to be what scouting is about. The point of scouting is to have functions where everyone can participate and no one feels bad because they can't take the money to go to an event. We, as a group, rented our local boy scout camp and had a family camp out as a yearly event this year. The whole camp cost us $125 to rent for everyone. Supplies were approx $400, including food and crafts, and everyone had a great time. We had 145 people show up and charged $3 per person for the whole weekend. We tie-dyed shirts, had a huge obstacle course, played games, had a water carnival and had tons and tons of food. Plus, the kids just loved hanging out and running around and not having all the structured time. The kids and parents are still talking about it and asking when we can do it again. They want to have a winter campout this time. Point is, I always consider the finances of families when planning events. What good is spending all the time and energy planning events if only a part of the group can participate.
In boy scouts we had a majority of our boys (all who wanted to go) go to Philmont this past summer. It was made very clear that all boys who wanted to go would have every opportunity to raise funds to be able to attend. It wasn't knocking and going door-to-door selling stuff nobody wants. We planned fundraising dinners, a burger burn at sam's club, car washes etc. Every boy who wanted to go raised their funds 100% to go there. I think part of the scouting experience is the budgeting and financing part of the equation. What good is it if you hand over $1200 for a trip and they've learned nothing from that part of it. It's a great learning opportunity and that's what scouting is about. It's a character building experience and being left out because you can't afford to attend a trip is a real crush for kids.
Maybe you should consider changing groups. Not all packs and troops operate in the manner you've described. Some of us are family-centered and do all we can to have it be that way. It must work because our cub pack has quadrupled over the past six years and we now have more kids than the other four packs in the area combined.
As for Cub scouts or boy scouts going to WDW as a trip? What part of scouting does this involve? I'll have to see about earning my mickey merit badge next time we go to WDW .

EXACTLY!!!

Our GS and BS troops use affiliated camps and in PA state campgounds have great cabins really cheap especialy off season. Our popcorn fundraiser which I vented about earlier was deternmined by National. Our local troops sell Christmas trees and do other things as necessary to make it all work out. usually whole families are included in bike trips etc so the parents dont have to find something to do with the girls when their brother is scouting. Only the overnights have been reserved "men only" but they always have a awards dinner first with the whole family invited. Glad we have good scouting here!

 

[tyniknate]

Hey, tiggspring.....I'm a Penna girl too! Gotta love the Keystone state.

 

[tiggspring]

Hey, tiggspring.....I'm a Penna girl too! Gotta love the Keystone state.

Hi Tyniknate!!

We moved to sw PA to raise our kids and LOVE IT! I admit I miss good seafood, top 40 music and the ocean from my home state of Rhode Island but Pittsburgh is a hidden gem in our country. Just love living in highlands country and being within an hour of a GREAT city. Pa is much more family friendly too. Have you noticed how many of us DIS'ers are from PA? We know how to have fun!

 

[allison443]

As a former Girl Scout leader and a current and former parent of a Cub Scout, I think that is a lot of money to ask. Yes, the price is worth it, but that isn't the point. The point is that they shouldn't even offer trips like this if fundraising isn't available to offset the price. Now, if a parent wishes to opt out of fundraising and pay the full price, then that is a different story. My oldest son's scout group went on an overnight ski trip, but they sold candy bars to help with the cost. The final cost was about $20 per person. Anyway, I think that is a lot of money to ask from parents, especially at Christmas time.

I understand that some families want/need for the troops to do fundraising to help cover the cost of activities. But I hope those families understand that every fundraiser results in more work for the leaders in terms of paperwork, organization, banking, tracking people down to turn in their funds, etc. This is in addition to what the leaders are putting into organizing the activities, running meetings, etc. It's great to say "the troop should fundraise" but people have to keep in mind who's going to have to run these fundraisers? Most leaders I know also work, yes, sometimes two jobs. Also, sometimes fundraisers need the quantity of people selling them, so they cannot allow an opt out provision, so it becomes a mandatory fundraiser.

 

[allison443]

Bolding mine. I'm not sure if this was directed at me or in general, but in our pack events are not scheduled at all ahead of time. I know this because when they had the "popcorn kickoff" meeting (WHICH I AS A NONVOLUNTEER ATTENDED BECAUSE I KNEW WHEN IT WAS) they said "we're not sure yet what the money is going to be used for, but some kind of winter "campout" and threw out a couple of destinations including WDW. As a matter of fact, the pack is only 2 years old.

As to this event, my intention is not that they cancel it, but right now it's not even a plan. They sent out the email to see how many would be interested in going (that's what it said) so I was wondering if I was being cheap in wanting to suggest that we plan more affordable outings.

After hearing the negative replies about parents volunteering it really makes me wonder if all scout leaders feel this way. When I drop my boys off I am always encouraged not to stay unless it is the week of a pack meeting. Free babysitting? I drop my kids off at 6:30, drive home and stay there for 1/2 hour, long enough to clean up from dinner, then pick them up by 7:30, hardly going out for a good time . If one of the leaders asked for volunteers I would be happy to if it's something I could do while the kids are at school, pick up patches or make phone calls or whatever, but no one has ever mentioned a need for more volunteers. I have 5 kids, I volunteer where I can, but I can't possibly be involved in every single activity that they do, especially in the evenings when they are all home from school. Please try to keep in mind when you're complaining about people not volunteering that not everyone can and that doesn't make their complaints or ideas less valid. I will concede that some of the situations you mentioned were unreasonable, but I don't think wanting more affordable, local, events is unreasonable.

Oh, I definitely agree with you about offering affordable local events. Also, some kids cannot/won't do overnights so it's good if some of the things are day trips!
However, I really think in most situations it is impossible to accomodate everyone. For example what if a kid's parents are divorced and they go to their dad's house every other weekend, two hours away, and the dad won't bring them to events? Should the troop not schedule things on those weekends? What if you have a troop member who due to religious reasons cannot participate on Saturdays? Can the troop still have events on Saturday? What if you have kids who have soccer every Sunday, can you still have events on Sunday? What if you have a kid who is disabled and cannot ride horses or ski, can the troop still sponsor a horseback riding trip or a ski trip? What if someone is allergic to animals, can the troop still visit the animal shelter?
None of these situations are the kid's "fault"-they are beyond the kid's control.

It has always worked for us if everyone including the kids realizes that no one can do everything, for various reasons, and that's okay. In the OP's case, I'm sure her kids understand that the scout trip is not in the budget but they have a trip to Great Wolf Lodge coming up!

 

[MrsPooh]

I'm a mom of girl scouts - no boys so no boyscout experience. That said, we were blessed with an outstanding girl scout troop and leader. When we did troop camping the cost was usually less than $10/girl. We went along on district overnight trips and did overnight events at local museums and the zoo. In the case of all of the district events the girls were eligible for financial aid through the local council so that everyone who wanted to attend could go. During and shortly after my illness my daughter was able to attend several overnight trips with the troop as well as attending week long summer camp on finanical aid. Otherwise she would have been unable to attend. Believe me, these trips were very important to her at a rough time in our lives.

I have nephews in boy scouts and the costs are crazy. Same with the boy scouts at our church. Yep, they do some really fun things but the parents pay a fortune for their children to participate.

My middle daughter got a great experience from girl scouts. She has so far earned her leadership award, bronze award and silver award. The gold award requirements here in our council are more difficult to achieve than the eagle award for the boys.

I just really don't get the expense of boy scouts.