Covid And The Rest of Us

[elphaba91]

Things are continuing to improve in Victoria, although it still seems painfully slow! We had 113 cases for the second day in a row; our Chief Health Officer is expecting we will be in double digits by next week.

The big debate at the moment is regarding a potential extension of the State of Emergency. The State of Emergency allows the Premier and Chief Health Officer to make laws without going through the usual parliamentary process, but can only be declared for up to 6 months, which we are nearing the end of. The Premier wants the ability to extend it for a further 12 months, although it doesn’t seem likely that he will have the numbers to do so. Personally, I think that the extension should be in shorter increments; while it’s important that we have the ability to introduce new restrictions on short notice, 12 months does seem like a long time for unfettered power. I would actually prefer some sort of bipartisan committee (as that worked really well at the start of the pandemic with our National Cabinet), but I don’t think that’s on the cards.

To add to the fun, we had a horrendous storm yesterday evening. Three people were tragically killed by falling trees, including a 4 year old boy just a few streets away from me, lots of houses and cars have been damaged, many people are still without electricity (which must make working and learning from home nearly impossible) and many suburbs, including mine, have been told to boil our water because the water treatment plant lost power temporarily. I know we are much luckier than those in the path of Hurricane Laura, but it is still an added problem that we didn’t need!

 

[bavaria]

Shall we do some good news?
In NL a theater producer announced to reopen one of their productions (The musical version of Tina Turner's life) per November. People with vouchers will get the option to rebook before actual sales open. It doesn't say anything about which measures to take for the audience or the performance. It might happen, it might not, but it's good that there is light at the horizon.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53875370
I feel that at least some countries are trying to find a way to return a bit more to 'normal' life living with the virus, not just expecting a vaccine will come and that cases go to zero. As we have seen, the discussions now are 1-2 years and the reality is that we cannot keep the world closed that long. The devastation that is causing is just too great.

While it's a bit frustrating to have changing rules, I feel that it is working towards finding positive outcomes. Yet in some areas things have not changed much since March, when the world suddenly went into panic and we were told to leave our groceries outside, etc and that if we all stayed locked up then it would be 'over' in 14 days.

The reality is that no country can get to zero any time in the near future, and the extreme measures taken to try and achieve that are not working.

There also needs to be a fine balance when reporting the 'good' news because if they say that a certain activity does not seem to cause more cases, people may become lax. But reading the details makes me feel much more comfortable with doing a lot more than I was doing a few months ago (but my movements and activities were also severely curtailed during that time due to medical treatment so I cannot say for sure if I would have been so restricted normally)

 

[Karin1984]

I read some more, and for the show I mentioned, the producer says to only allow a third of the audience. But no news how they are going to do it on stage. Musical theater usually comes with singing ;-) and singing is not really a thing lately... They do not mention masks or anything, as masks are not really a thing in NL either. Amsterdam and Rotterdam have stopped requiring masks in the busiest tourist areas in town as the summer season is over, the tourists that were here are leaving and the weather is getting bad (It's been pouring all day here!)

NL has put more parts of France on the list, unnecessary travel to Disneyland Paris is discouraged. So... what to do about my trip next weekend.
Quarantine is 10 days now, and by what they ask... Quarantining at home doesn't really impact my life.
I have to discuss it with my Disney-buddy, but at the moment I think: Let's go, obey the rules, and quarantine upon return.

 

[bavaria]

I read some more, and for the show I mentioned, the producer says to only allow a third of the audience. But no news how they are going to do it on stage. Musical theater usually comes with singing ;-) and singing is not really a thing lately... They do not mention masks or anything, as masks are not really a thing in NL either.

There has to be a way to keep distance and be 'safe'. The film industry has returned to production around Europe, and parts of Canada. I read that they expect to be busier than normal due to avoiding the US and productions moving as a result.
https://cineuropa.org/en/newsdetail/388352/
In that vein, it's also interesting to see airlines rerouting to avoid the US, like the Air Tahiti Nui now routing over Canada instead of their traditional stop in LAX.

 

[BadPinkTink]

One of The UK's long running soaps, Eastenders has got creative with their Covid 19 restrictions in order to get back to filming.

The studio is hiring the actors real life partners as body doubles for the onscreen couples. That way the actors can kiss and hug but still be compliant with the legal restrictions and keep everyone safe. They are also using perspex screens and spacing people far apart and then cleaning up the scenes in post production.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-53936399

 

[bavaria]

One of The UK's long running soaps, Eastenders has got creative with their Covid 19 restrictions in order to get back to filming.

The studio is hiring the actors real life partners as body doubles for the onscreen couples. That way the actors can kiss and hug but still be compliant with the legal restrictions and keep everyone safe. They are also using perspex screens and spacing people far apart and then cleaning up the scenes in post production.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-53936399

See, another example of being creative to get on with life! I've also read about fewer background actors and replacing them with dummies.

 

[BadPinkTink]

See, another example of being creative to get on with life! I've also read about fewer background actors and replacing them with dummies.

and its not like Hollywood hasn't done stuff like this before Covid. Two examples that I know of and I'm sure there are many more

1. In Maleficent, the 5 year old Aurora was played by Angelina Jolies real child Vivienne Jolie-Pitt as all the kids tested for the part were scared of the Maleficent costume and Vivienne wasn't, she just saw her mom.
2. In Thor The Dark World Chris Hemsworth's wife Elsa Pataky stood in for Natalie Portman during the post-credits kissing scene due to a scheduling conflict

 

[bavaria]

And now Air canada is following Germany lead with free testing at YYZ to show low risk (quarantine still required but glad to see some sensible progress)

 

[anthony2k7]

First American re-infection case confirmed...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1299362114373648385

 

[elphaba91]

See, another example of being creative to get on with life! I've also read about fewer background actors and replacing them with dummies.

They went ahead with the Masked Singer here in Melbourne. The judges had Perspex screens between them, the audience was a smattering of crew members dressed in animal costumes amongst a sea of giant stuffed toys and the dancers all wore masks. They made it all the way to the day of shooting the finale and one of the dancers announced they were feeling unwell and got tested. Sure enough, they were positive and are now up to 16 cases and everyone involved in the show is in quarantine.

 

[godisney14]

First American re-infection case confirmed...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1299362114373648385

This case is interesting because the patient had worse symptoms the second time.

Also, following the Hong Kong news, recent reports confirm 4 reinfections in Netherlands and 1 in Belgium as well. All of these reinfections have happened in ~3 to 4 months from the initial infection. So, if reinfections is a serious phenomenon, then we could be hearing more about such cases closer around 6 to 9 months, to a year, from March timeframe.

 

[Karin1984]

I wonder if they are really reinfections or if they were never really cured to begin with.

For NL, Greece has decided we are doing a good job and has cancelled the obligatory negative test before entering.

It's really weird in NL at the moment, somewhere in July media reported that less people got tested than expected and we had millions of tests left and if we should increase testing or put the tests in the cupboard till the autumn for a second waive. We haven't increased testing (to my knowledge), but now we get messages that we are almost out of tests. How does that work?

 

[godisney14]

I wonder if they are really reinfections or if they were never really cured to begin with.

What part of it do you find suspicious?

I take it that you didn’t read the actual article or study report.

They confirmed actual reinfection through genome sequencing on samples from the first and second infection. The sequencing showed distinct differences in the reading sequence of the coronavirus. That’s not something that can be disputed.

 

[anthony2k7]

I wonder if they are really reinfections or if they were never really cured to begin with.

For NL, Greece has decided we are doing a good job and has cancelled the obligatory negative test before entering.

It's really weird in NL at the moment, somewhere in July media reported that less people got tested than expected and we had millions of tests left and if we should increase testing or put the tests in the cupboard till the autumn for a second waive. We haven't increased testing (to my knowledge), but now we get messages that we are almost out of tests. How does that work?

Well they are either reinfections or evidence of the virus mutating within an infected person because each of these cases has been confirmed by samples of the virus during first and second infection with the virus DNA being confirmed to be different.

Epidemiologists seem convinced its re-infection and they're the experts though

 

[Karin1984]

What part of it do you find suspicious?

I take it that you didn’t read the actual article or study report.

They confirmed actual reinfection through genome sequencing on samples from the first and second infection. The sequencing showed distinct differences in the reading sequence of the coronavirus. That’s not something that can be disputed.

That is correct, while my English is good enough to communicate in English, medical reports written in a formal form of English are usually a step above my level of knowledge of the English language.
I could use Google translate, but without the medical background the terms like 'genome sequencing' do not mean a lot to me anyway. No idea what it means

As 4 of them are Dutch, I looked up the Dutch news, but there is not much written about it. 3 of them were over the age of 60 with a weaker immune system.
They do say that these people are the exceptions. 4 people on 71K infections in NL.
One of the people who got it the second time was already known 3 weeks ago, I found an article about her passing. It was an elderly woman in a nursing home. Two other had only mild symptoms the second time, and the last person isn't known abut.

 

[ronandannette]

Well they are either reinfections or evidence of the virus mutating within an infected person because each of these cases has been confirmed by samples of the virus during first and second infection with the virus DNA being confirmed to be different.

Epidemiologists seem convinced its re-infection and they're the experts though

As someone up-thread mentioned, I don't suppose either we or the scientists should be shocked by this. Coronavirus is what results in the common cold - ubiquitous world-wide but in many different strains. Changing/mutating is a typical characteristic of Coronavirus.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I’d be curious how they managed to get infected twice

 

[godisney14]

As someone up-thread mentioned, I don't suppose either we or the scientists should be shocked by this. Coronavirus is what results in the common cold - ubiquitous world-wide but in many different strains. Changing/mutating is a typical characteristic of Coronavirus.

No, there shouldn’t be a surprise. But, this confirms that non-surprise. Also, the fact that the reinfections can happen so quickly is confirmation of the waning antibody levels in people who were previously infected. Dozens of studies have shown that antibody levels wane more quickly in people who had mild or no symptoms. But, the fact that actually translates into clinical presentation of reinfection as quickly is good to know.

I’d be curious how they managed to get infected twice

It’s hard to even know how most people become infected.

 

[TLSnell1981]

No, there shouldn’t be a surprise. But, this confirms that non-surprise. Also, the fact that the reinfections can happen so quickly is confirmation of the waning antibody levels in people who were previously infected. Dozens of studies have shown that antibody levels wane more quickly in people who had mild or no symptoms. But, the fact that actually translates into clinical presentation of reinfection as quickly is good to know.



It’s hard to even know how most people become infected.

I know four with COVID that had no sneezing or coughing but wore masks. Loss of smell, headache and/or gastric issues were the only symptoms. All felt fine after a few days.

 

[bavaria]

It’s hard to even know how most people become infected.

Unfortunately the chart is a picture so I cannot use the translate function to turn it to English. It's 'where do Germans get infected with Coronavirus?'

Not in the bus/train/plane, but in the private household, care home, workplace (meat packing etc), refugee home, hospital. I'm not sure how they managed but they even go as specific as catching it in an ambulance or doctor's office. (Obviously with extremely good contact tracing) 3 people caught it at a picnic, but nobody in a tent or a forest. A good portion of those listed under 'Freizeit' ie 'leisure' are traced back to the Karneval outbreak.

While the article criticizes that the statistics only show about 1/4 of all cases, what it does show is trends. And those trends show what we have seen in other countries as well.