Covid And The Rest of Us

[maddiel]

I think the goal should be to keep cases to level where contract tracing is effective and community spread is minimized.. That is the case here in Nova Scotia, That is clearly not the case in Florida. Somewhere in the middle is the sweet point for maximum freedom and maximum control of the virus.. Once the case load becomes too high to do timely testing and and tracing, you get community spread and things get out of control rather quickly. What that sweet spot is depends on so many factors though.

I'm torn about what we should do here - keeping the 14 day quarantine for people outside the Atlantic bubble means we have a good chance of being able to safely open schools, continue to offer full medical services, and restart all of the economy except the tourism sector. That's not nothing! At the same time, facilitating tourism would have economic benefits IF it could be done without unduly jeopardizing everything else and being open is the eventual aim. I suspect that the restriction will be lifted in mid/late September once any returning university students finish their quarantine and schools have a chance to start. We'll still have to quarantine when we get back from Ontario later this month.

M.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I’m debating about our planned Alberta trip later this month.
We’re in Manitoba.
With the spikes in cases it makes me uneasy. Would it be selfish to go? I don’t want to be “those people “?

 

[mrodgers]

This is what I struggle to understand in real time, no one is saying this virus is just going to cease to exsist. I mean the 1918 flu is the H1N1 that is still around 100 year later, and pneumonia and the common cold are in the coronavirus family. I live on an island and they did shut down and we had no cases until some people snuck in and at least one ended up a positive asymptomatic that is known as patient 0 here. But we have no reason to believe that even with vaccines or medicine, the virus ceases to be. Do we really shut down for years? Do countries, and regions and cities lock each other out everytime there are known cases? I mean what kind of world do we want, one where governments make all the calls on what risks are allowable? I am an American but live in Honduras. The Government here is given all the authority it wants in making decisions, but carries little of the fault of those now struggling. In Canada it seems the government carries the weight of the medical and fall out in caring for those who were out of work during closures, but Honduras is mimicking countries with VERY different environments and will have very different outcomes. No medical system, no money, no resources to distribute. The fact that the US has a ton of cases limits help and just plain people. tourists and volunteer groups from the ability to come. We are all connected in 2020 is ways that can not all be untangled. Sorry for the vent, I have no purpose in my rambling, just thing to sensemake how to be in the world as a person of not just one country and culture and too much time and access to information.

That is EXACTLTY what those frothing at the mouth for power want, except it is singular government, not plural governments.

 

[ronandannette]

I’m debating about our planned Alberta trip later this month.
We’re in Manitoba.
With the spikes in cases it makes me uneasy. Would it be selfish to go? I don’t want to be “those people “?

Well, here's what I can tell you: If you're driving into the mountain resorts and staying at hotels and eating in restaurants, your risk of contracting Covid is very low. From what the contact tracers have pieced together, there's been very little random community spread. The entire province now has mandatory masking in place and all employees you'll encounter in stores and restaurants will be wearing them. I personally have no fear of public spaces in terms of hygiene - not only do most places seem to be quite diligent, I also don't believe infection from surfaces is really a big threat as long as you take your own safety measures.

The vast, VAST majority of our cases and almost all of our deaths have been within locked-down senior's facilities. We also had a couple of sizeable outbreaks amongst the employees of two meat packing facilities and their family members but those were in out-of-the-way small towns and resolved back in May. There's practically no chance you'll be in any of those areas.

If you do decide to come, I hope you have a great time. There is unrivaled natural beauty and yourself and all Canadians are more than welcome. Do keep me posted and give a little review.

 

[NFLDERS]

Well snap. We were informed yesterday afternoon that our workplace will voluntarily be implementing mandatory masking, in keeping with the City by-law for public places that takes effect today. Offices like mine which are private premises with restricted access to the public are not bound by the mandate - only public buildings, transit and outlets that allow free access to all, like retail stores.

I intend to comply (really, there is no choice) as I have with every official directive since this thing started, but honestly, the idea of being masked all day is extremely hard to take. I had no argument against the mask mandate as long as I could pick-and-choose where I went and therefore limit my mask use. Almost everyone I know felt the same. This is a real blow to morale though, and as has been mentioned zillions of times in other contexts, the most disheartening issue is that there is NO DEFINED END-GAME. {{sigh}}

I feel for you. Our eldest son works in the Toronto area. The Company he works for was deemed essential so he fortunately has been working. They have been working masked for some time now. Unfortunately, the owner wishing to keep the doors open so employees will not be touching them has made the air conditioning pretty much a non cooling, and with the areas weather temperatures it has made the building very uncomfortable... sigh. Try that they may to reason with him, the owner wants to keep it that way.

 

[NFLDERS]

Southern Ontario, Canada here. Specifically Niagara Region.
Our numbers are trending upward again, which is to be expected with gradual reopening but there are cases specifically tied to reopening of the tourism areas in Niagara Falls that are just unnecessary. Videos were circulating of shoulder to shoulder crowds in the main tourist area a few weekends ago , and sure enough there are confirmed cases of employees at the attractions and restaurants testing positive this week . There were no protocols in place for social distancing and mask usage and now Niagara Falls is scrambling to implement them . If I sound bitter, I am . The mayor of this giant tourist Mecca yelled high and low that he was against masks mandates last month saying it was bad for business . Now here we are .. you know what else is bad for business ? People getting sick because you didn’t plan for reopening in a global pandemic . Now he’s changed his tune . Sigh . A safe reopening of this area was integral to the struggling economy.

Niagara did extremely well during the March to June stay at home period . It’s not feasible long term to keep us all inside and our economy has taken a huge blow . A safe and slow reopening is necessary to kickstart it again . However, I’m thinking that with our schools opening in September we will see a big spike in cases and be under tighter restrictions again by November. I no longer see a quick way out of this and I’m preparing for a winter inside and tough economic times . I don’t mean to be a Debbie Downer.. I just can’t see a way out of this any time soon and I want to be prepared .

This Niagara resident agrees. Stay strong, and safe.

 

[MommyinHonduras]

Has anyone been following the paper tests? Hopefully this youtube clip can be linked. I am not medical but this sounds like something that should be at least getting more air time to hash out.

 

[NFLDERS]

Returning Australian residents are still allowed to come back into Australia however we are restricting the daily numbers.

The same with Canadian Snowbirds returning to B. C. especially, and not quarantining. B. C. residents are smashing car windows, and vandalizing vehicles in general.

 

[mamaofsix]

EXACTLY.

Well, I guess the issue is that they didn't defer their vacation travel, under the circumstances. Remember, our boarders are NOT open to non-essential travel. There are a number of exemptions; each for a specific purpose. In addition to cross-border employment/education and personal emergency, the intent of the "rule" they exploited is to repatriate Canadians abroad and to allow for non-citizen family members to enter Canada to reunify families. Neither of those situations even remotely apply to them coming up for a couple of weeks at the lake.

Here, most of us are trying not just to follow the letter-of-the-law (loopholes and all) but to conform to the intent, which is quite restrictive of movement in the interest of limiting the spread of Covid19.

 

[NFLDERS]

I’m debating about our planned Alberta trip later this month.
We’re in Manitoba.
With the spikes in cases it makes me uneasy. Would it be selfish to go? I don’t want to be “those people “?

I'd like to say don't go. I'd love to 'Go Home' to visit family in Newfoundland too, but won't even if we are allowed just to insure everyone's good health.

 

[ronandannette]

I'd like to say don't go. I'd love to 'Go Home' to visit family in Newfoundland too, but won't even if we are allowed just to insure everyone's good health.

I understand what you're saying Jane, but for curiosity, what benchmarks do you think should be in place before we travel inter-provincially?

 

[Prince John Robin Hood]

Toronto area here. Downloaded the new Covid tracking app but I'm wondering if enough people will download it for it to be effective. Seems like an effective way to contact trace.
Glad that everywhere around here seems to have a rule enforcing wearing a mask indoors. The science seems indisputable that they work at minimizing the spread of the virus. Helps keep me home too as I don't like wearing one.

 

[FigmentSpark]

I'd like to say don't go. I'd love to 'Go Home' to visit family in Newfoundland too, but won't even if we are allowed just to insure everyone's good health.

I'm thinking Manitoba to Alberta is probably safe if you drive. I won't be getting on a plane any time soon. Also, I think you have to quarantine when you get back to Manitoba. That's more the risk than the other way around.

 

[elphaba91]

I had lunch today with a friend whose brother lives in Melbourne. While the number of cases you have there seem small, relatively speaking, it is surely a decisive response - you guys aren't playing at this. What's compliance like? I'd say it's better here in Canada than what we hear in the US but then again, our restrictions aren't too onerous.

Compliance is so-so; of course, there are always idiots, but people aren’t making it as much of a political issue as they are in other countries. Maybe it helps that we have a left wing state government and right wing federal government and they are trying to be on the same page with the restrictions.

As far as masks go, people are being fairly good; a few people who are refusing but for the most part people have embraced it in true Melbourne fashion and are sporting stylish homemade or ethically sourced masks. I think there are a lot of people not understanding what ‘essential’ shopping means; my Mum works in a pharmacy and they have a lot of people still coming in in pairs just to look at perfumes, even 10 minutes before curfew. However more restrictions kicked in yesterday, which means the vast majority of businesses, including all retail apart from grocery, pharmacy, etc. must be closed, which should curb that a lot. There are lots of photos of empty city streets and freeways, which is strange but good!

May I ask if your government has defined the “ultimate goal”? Ours has not and over time the idea of flattening the curve and preserving hospital space has gone by the wayside as we have never even begun to approach hospital capacity, even in the hardest-hit areas. Now we all wonder exactly what we are working towards. Zero cases? That does not seem like a realistic objective.

That’s been an issue here too. They’ve said that it was suppression, flattening the curve, etc. However I think we’ve seen with this second wave that that’s just not viable long-term. However, they’ve also said that elimination is impossible as long as there are cases out in the world. Now they are saying that the goal is suppression to the point of zero community transmissions. Some states have got there and we came heartbreakingly close as a country, so hopefully it’s still possible.

Another Aussie here. I'm also in Victoria although the Mornington Peninsula. We are considered Metro and on stage 4 lockdown with the rest of the Metro areas. We have minimal cases here though. Then Peninsula have only had 90 cases in total and currently have 17 active cases. Its odd how it works. Greater Geelong (the other side of the city) currently have 106 active cases but are only on stage 3 lockdown.

My aunt is in Sorrento, so I definitely understand your frustrations! To make matters worse your 5km radius is mainly water!

 

[Jrb1979]

I actually completely agree with you in that Zero cases shouldn't be the goal but there's no authority anywhere that has defined what the end-game is. And here we are, with cases (relatively) low, and absolutely no risk whatsoever of health resources being exhausted, and our restrictions are actually increasing. I don't know what to think, really, either.

What I understand the end game is a vaccine. At least that's what has been said for Ontario. We are at our last stage for opening. Other then amusement parks, just about everything is open. As far as the mask goes it doesn't bother me at all. I've been wearing it for months due to my job so I'm used to it.

 

[ronandannette]

Compliance is so-so; of course, there are always idiots, but people aren’t making it as much of a political issue as they are in other countries. Maybe it helps that we have a left wing state government and right wing federal government and they are trying to be on the same page with the restrictions.

As far as masks go, people are being fairly good; a few people who are refusing but for the most part people have embraced it in true Melbourne fashion and are sporting stylish homemade or ethically sourced masks. I think there are a lot of people not understanding what ‘essential’ shopping means; my Mum works in a pharmacy and they have a lot of people still coming in in pairs just to look at perfumes, even 10 minutes before curfew. However more restrictions kicked in yesterday, which means the vast majority of businesses, including all retail apart from grocery, pharmacy, etc. must be closed, which should curb that a lot. There are lots of photos of empty city streets and freeways, which is strange but good!


That’s been an issue here too. They’ve said that it was suppression, flattening the curve, etc. However I think we’ve seen with this second wave that that’s just not viable long-term. However, they’ve also said that elimination is impossible as long as there are cases out in the world. Now they are saying that the goal is suppression to the point of zero community transmissions. Some states have got there and we came heartbreakingly close as a country, so hopefully it’s still possible.


My aunt is in Sorrento, so I definitely understand your frustrations! To make matters worse your 5km radius is mainly water!

I can’t speak for every province but federally, there’s been next to no “hay making” politically with Covid issues. Very early on, before the reality of this sunk in, there was some attempts to score points amongst the differing parties but it ended quickly. And there are other things still going on where political muscles are being flexed. Our current leader leaves us with no shortage of (non-Covid) brouhaha and is currently entangled in a doozie of a corruption/conflict-of-interest thing, so we’re all busy with that.

What I understand the end game is a vaccine. At least that's what has been said for Ontario. We are at our last stage for opening. Other then amusement parks, just about everything is open. As far as the mask goes it doesn't bother me at all. I've been wearing it for months due to my job so I'm used to it.

Who can even tell anymore? On Wednesday Theresa Tam gave a press conference warning us NOT to expect normalcy solely based on the development of a vaccine and suggested we brace for being restricted and masked for two years or more. I was literally speechless. Good thing I guess because at that point anything I would have said wouldn’t have been ladylike.

 

[Jrb1979]

I can’t speak for every province but federally, there’s been next to no “hay making” politically with Covid issues. Very early on, before the reality of this sunk in, there was some attempts to score points amongst the differing parties but it ended quickly. And there are other things still going on where political muscles are being flexed. Our current leader leaves us with no shortage of (non-Covid) brouhaha and is currently entangled in a doozie of a corruption/conflict-of-interest thing, so we’re all busy with that.

Who can even tell anymore? On Wednesday Theresa Tam gave a press conference warning us NOT to expect normalcy solely based on the development of a vaccine and suggested we brace for being restricted and masked for two years or more. I was literally speechless. Good thing I guess because at that point anything I would have said wouldn’t have been ladylike.

True but wearing a mask and living with the restrictions that are in place isn't really that bad. Most of the economy is open now. I don't mind having to stay away from people as I'm not really a people person.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I'd like to say don't go. I'd love to 'Go Home' to visit family in Newfoundland too, but won't even if we are allowed just to insure everyone's good health.

There is a prairie bubble - anything west of basically Thunder Bay. And a Maritime bubble. Ontario and Quebec are the hot spots.

 

[ronandannette]

True but wearing a mask and living with the restrictions that are in place isn't really that bad. Most of the economy is open now. I don't mind having to stay away from people as I'm not really a people person.

Not everyone feels the same, by a long-shot and being unable to be with family in other parts of the province or country is NOT OK with me.

 

[Jrb1979]

Not everyone feels the same, by a long-shot and being unable to be with family in other parts of the province or country is NOT OK with me.

I'm sure that will change soon. Once cases drop more I'm sure those restrictions will end.